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It doesnt really bother me at all. But I like me some WYSIWYG

 Griddlelol wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
I just want to relax and do nothing...

I find painting incredibly relaxing. I put on a podcast and before I know it it's time for me to go to bed.

I'm not sure how painting could be stressful, but maybe try painting for the hell of it, rather than because you want to get it done as quickly as possible. I find my best paint jobs are on the miniatures I don't care about getting on the table immediately. I picked up warhammer after a long hiatus because I wanted to relax and take my mind off work. Just so happened that I love playing the game too.

Painting can be very stressful, when you want it to look good, are very detail oriented, but not skilled at it.

 Sasori wrote:


Painting can be very stressful, when you want it to look good, are very detail oriented, but not skilled at it.

I see, I've never really had that experience personally. I'm not a brilliant painter, but I'm good enough to where I can add the detail I want without making mistakes. I suppose if I had to keep painting over mistakes only to do it again it would get rather stressful.

I'll play with anyone, of course, but it is nice if they at least have their models primed. Priming shows intention to paint, even if they never get that far. I understand what its like to have a busy life...but as was mentioned on the first page, if you're not into the hobby part of this game...why are you playing? GW business practices and game balance just doesn't merit being into this game for the game itself.

 Sasori wrote:
Painting can be very stressful, when you want it to look good, are very detail oriented, but not skilled at it.

Yeah, it can be. I get stressed with priming vehicles, because especially when it's black the imperfections of the plastic moulding process show through it, making it a pain in the arse.

Very rewarding to succeed in making a paint job you're satisfied with on a mini you like, though. Like I'm really happy how my terminator chaplain turned out this week. I LOVE the model, and I was worried I wouldn't be able to paint it to look good enough to be happy compared to how I wanted it, but luckily I did succeed. It did take me 10 hours over two days, but it was still well worth the time spent.

I have nerve damage in my dominant arm and cannot do precise things like painting for more than 5 minutes at a time without uncontrollable tremors. I guess that makes me a lazy person who doesn't appreciate the hobby.

Screw every last person with that sentiment.

Curran12, that's different. I really don't think anybody would be pissy if they see you. Thankfully this is somewhat of an anonymous message board (thanks to internets and all), so people are a bit more gruff. But you can definately tell the different between lazy people who hate the hobby and people who physically can not paint.

Usually the lazy people smell like BO and have orange cheeto fingers.

Unpainted armies don't bother me.

What bothers me, is when someones army is painted and they just love to brag about how their army is painted. Especially when it's not a very good paint job, but they think it is. Kinda like beer goggles. Now I understand you are proud of your own work, but come on now. Bragging about your okay paint job doesn't make you a good opponent.

Doesn't make you a good opponent

And that's the key. It shouldn't matter to you whatsoever how their army is done (painted I mean. Obviously if someone never finished building the models and they are using it to their advantage, that's a no-go) but it should matter how they act. If I can play one of two people, one without a painted army but he is a cool dude, and one with a very nicely done professional looking army but he is an ass you can bet I'm playing the unpainted guy.

Oh, and the card-board cut-outs thing is a stupid argument. That's completely different, seeing as the guy has obvious time to build the models but not enough time to paint them (which, for most people, can take much longer than actually building the army). Someone saying "I don't really have time to paint anymore" and them replying "Then use card-board cut-outs" just makes me not want to play them even more (NOTE: See above for rational)

 Rysal190 wrote:
Curran12, that's different. I really don't think anybody would be pissy if they see you. Thankfully this is somewhat of an anonymous message board (thanks to internets and all), so people are a bit more gruff. But you can definately tell the different between lazy people who hate the hobby and people who physically can not paint.

Usually the lazy people smell like BO and have orange cheeto fingers.

Then might it be more a sentiment of it being the person, not the army? And really, with people here going on about refusing to play unpainted armies or urging them to get cutout armies, I gotta say, I doubt your claim that you can tell the difference. This is not meant to go to you, but all of it sounds like people getting any kind of sense of entitled superiority that they can get, and if that means being a choad to those with unpainted armies, so be it.

Don't get me wrong. There's nothing better than two painted armies on a nice looking table. I totally concede that it adds a lot to the experience. But the game itself is far more important, and a game of 40k is a shared experience. When someone comes in with a "oh why are you so lazy" sneer, no amount of "oh well I guess I understand" really ever smooths that over.

And I do field painted armies, I commission friends and/or studios as I can afford because I appreciate good-looking models, but I do what I can. And I've been accused of cheapening the hobby for doing it. Even people who know I have nerve damage and have seen the jagged, 8-inch scar on my arm. So I really don't put a lot of stock into the understanding nature of fellow wargamers until I see it firsthand.

I tend to phase in and out of painting moods.

I usually work 14 hours a day, 6 days a week so once ive done that and the usual house work, ive got next to no time left.
But from time to time ill get into the mood for painting and take a day off to get some work done.
So my armies tend to go from grey to painted in a few weeks, but only once im in the mood for it.

The oddest excuse i find is "I have a life" I have seen people with jobs, wife's and kids who get armies painted faster then me to a higher standard.
But the clarify, The reason i hate unpainted armies is clear, They show no love for the hobby. Many people i meet who do not even paint their armies are still planning new ones. They jump from one to another not doing anything at all with painting.
And it takes the immersion out. Unpainted models or mismatched models just take me out of the game. Like playing a video games with no textured models.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The oddest excuse i find is "I have a life" I have seen people with jobs, wife's and kids who get armies painted faster then me to a higher standard.
But the clarify, The reason i hate unpainted armies is clear, They show no love for the hobby. Many people i meet who do not even paint their armies are still planning new ones. They jump from one to another not doing anything at all with painting.
And it takes the immersion out. Unpainted models or mismatched models just take me out of the game. Like playing a video games with no textured models.

Someone can love the hobby of miniature wargaming, and not love painting. I don't like to paint, but I thoroughly enjoy playing games.

 curran12 wrote:

...all of it sounds like people getting any kind of sense of entitled superiority that they can get, and if that means being a choad to those with unpainted armies, so be it.

...When someone comes in with a "oh why are you so lazy" sneer, no amount of "oh well I guess I understand" really ever smooths that over.

...And I've been accused of cheapening the hobby for doing it. Even people who know I have nerve damage and have seen the jagged, 8-inch scar on my arm. So I really don't put a lot of stock into the understanding nature of fellow wargamers until I see it firsthand.

Wow, I feel really sorry that there's donkey-caves out there that do this sort of thing to you. Perhaps I used too many 'shoulds'...though I definately SHOULD remember there's enough jerks out there in our little branch of society (isn't interesting how geeks tend to play social games like Warhammer and D&D, but tend to have the worst social skills?). It might be more of a sentiment of it being the person, but it may be somewhat of an extension of that. If you see 10 people with unpainted armies, and 9 of them have cheeto fingers, people are far more likely to say "all people who have unpainted armies are lazy." It's just a little jump we tend to make. The best I can say is don't let it get to you, but that is kind of like telling somebody who just had his legs cut off to walk it off.

 Rysal190 wrote:
Curran12, that's different. I really don't think anybody would be pissy if they see you. Thankfully this is somewhat of an anonymous message board (thanks to internets and all), so people are a bit more gruff. But you can definately tell the different between lazy people who hate the hobby and people who physically can not paint.

Usually the lazy people smell like BO and have orange cheeto fingers.

That's not the case at all. You're looking at the army, it's status is unpainted and unprimed. You're basing your assumption that he is lazy based off that. When presented with more facts, like Curran12's example, then you change your stance. You're moving the goal post by then claiming that lazy people are also smelly, dirty, and crusted in old food. Then do you have a problem with unpainted armies or do you have a problem with lazy people?

The biggest issue I have with this is that people are JUDGING people based ENTIRELY on the aesthetic look of their army. You can make up whatever excuse you want for the judgmental BS, but it's still going to be judgmental BS. How about instead of getting annoyed that a person hasn't painted their army, you spend the time and energy to get to know them. Then maybe you can start making actual judgements based on your experience with them.

Also, what's the big deal with primed or quickly painted models? I know it doesn't take that much time and effort for a talented person to quickly paint a model three different colors. The issue is that if someone can't paint well to the point they don't even want to try, then why are you promoting an attitude to make them feel more self concious about the issue of painting. You may be happy seeing a model hastily painted three colors, but you only have to see that model for a few hours in a game. That person will have to look at that model for the rest of the time they have it. I like to sketch and I have sketches hidden in 5 different sketches through my entire house because I hate looking at a sketch that I don't feel is up to par. I can understand why someone wouldn't want to paint, and I support them entirely.

Is priming any better really? It's a single monotone coating. It's just a different color than the all grey bare model.


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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
They show no love for the hobby.

I wrote a response to this comment on the third page and Curran12's example on this page to show you how wrong, inconsiderate, and even hurtful this statement is. I seriously hope that you understand what a baseless comment this is and how that attitude, shows no love or compassion for the hobby or the hobbyists that enjoy it.

I never said anything about those who cannot paint, I said about those who can, but do not.

Gotta love Dakka... cue hyperbole and holier-than-thou (from both sides)

Personally, my (arbitrary) standard for new people I play against is assembled WYSIWYG or obvious Counts As. That just helps the game to go smoother when playing someone I haven't played before. Generally, if I am playing someone for the first time, I try to use a fully painted force. I look at it as trying to put my best foot forward for the game and to try and make a good first impression with someone I might be playing many more games against in the future. If they aren't using a fully painted army, it doesn't bother me at all. I think it ups the coolness factor when both armies are fully painted, but if not, oh well.

Things are different when I am playing with my friends or a long-established gaming group, though. We might be playing campaign games where it helps "forge the narrative" if both armies are painted or we might be tweaking and tuning lists where WYSIWYG and painting go out the window because we are excited to try out our new cheese. And it's all relative, too. When I lived in Upstate NY, I was one of the few people in my area running fully painted armies. Here in VA now, most of the people I play have VERY nicely painted armies that make mine look crappy in comparison. It's the same as any other wargame issue, you have to communicate with your opponent and determine what you both are looking for in the game. If you do that, there really can't be any hard feelings.

TLDR: I have my armies painted, but don't think twice when someone plops down a horde of grey or primed plastic.

(Painted armies tend to roll better, though... just sayin')

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I never said anything about those who cannot paint, I said about those who can, but do not.

I could paint, but then my models look worse and then I've ruined expensive models.

 Rysal190 wrote:

Wow, I feel really sorry that there's donkey-caves out there that do this sort of thing to you. Perhaps I used too many 'shoulds'...though I definately SHOULD remember there's enough jerks out there in our little branch of society (isn't interesting how geeks tend to play social games like Warhammer and D&D, but tend to have the worst social skills?). It might be more of a sentiment of it being the person, but it may be somewhat of an extension of that. If you see 10 people with unpainted armies, and 9 of them have cheeto fingers, people are far more likely to say "all people who have unpainted armies are lazy." It's just a little jump we tend to make. The best I can say is don't let it get to you, but that is kind of like telling somebody who just had his legs cut off to walk it off.

Oh I get where you're coming from. I totally do. And thanks for the concern, but it is one of those things where it is 1 person out of 30 who gives me any kind of grief for it. It's so rare that it's nothing that really consumes me or even interferes that much in my daily hobby life, but on places like here, you get that echo chamber effect. Where one choad's voice is amplified and echoed until it is the overwhelming majority sentiment. I never try to be aggressive in pointing out my condition, but at the same time, I don't abide accusations against me by those who have no clue.

But to go off of what Savageconvoy said, how often does someone at a gaming table stop to ask about an unpainted army? I doubt it is addressed with an "oh I see your army is unpainted, what are you planning with them? Or are you having any problems?" kind of friendly question. More likely, I'd bet that 9 times out of 10, it is "oh. Unpainted. GROOOOAN." At that point, it isn't about the situation or reason for the models being unpainted, the person doing that groan has chosen to set the tone as antagonistic, and you can rest assured that the game (if it happens at all) is going to be significantly less pleasant for both parties. It's a nice ideal to think that we'd all take time to talk out and learn for sure if it is this supposed laziness or other some other reason, but we both know that it never goes down that way.


To me, it all comes down to the shared experience between two individuals. And that is down to just that: individuals. I have a lot of favorite opponents and they run the range of traits. My most favorite long-running opponent rarely paints and he is great in the hobby and game. My favorite opponent to practice tournament play on is the biggest cheapskate and proxies so much, but he is a damn fine player and good to play with. I have great games with gorgeous armies of all OOP models, and I have great games with unprimed armies. To me, painting and sneering at those who don't is just a way to introduce a chance for jackasses to be jackasses in a nice setting and think they have a justification.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I never said anything about those who cannot paint, I said about those who can, but do not.

Honest question here, and I mean it with all sincerity. But if I set up at a table with an unpainted army, what would you do? And please just give me the basic reaction. How would you react?

Then try again, My painting was horrendeous when i started. No one starts out as Eavy metal.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The reason i hate unpainted armies is clear, They show no love for the hobby.

You don't specify lazy people. You're specifying people with unpainted armies. When presented with proof that people are A.) Very involved and enthusiastic about the hobby B.) Not lazy, unmotivated, or for whatever reason they aren't able to paint then you're moving the goal post back and claiming that they are lazy. You're not making claims about lazy people and then showing unpainted armies as an example of their behavior. You look at unpainted armies then lable them as lazy to justify the distaste.

Someone purchased the required books for the game ($70 brb and $50 codex), bought all the expensive models (Personally my 500pt army is $250), and took the time to assemble and maybe even do conversions to meet the WYSIWYG standard. Some people claim it isn't enough at that point, they need to go above and beyond. But I'm sure all of you saw the move "Office Space." Tell me then, were you for or against the waitress who was being coerced to wear more flair because she was only doing the requirement.

Never seen office space. And you are correct, i did not specify lazy people, i made a generalization.
But let me ask you this. Why not paint your army? you
1: Have a great looking thing you can be proud of
2: Get great compliments.
3: If you dont like it, it can improve discipline and patience.
4: If you find it boring, put on a TV show you like, that is how i paint.
Painting is part of the entire hobby IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 curran12 wrote:


Honest question here, and I mean it with all sincerity. But if I set up at a table with an unpainted army, what would you do? And please just give me the basic reaction. How would you react?

I would just shut my mouth and play. I said i hate them. I never said i wouldnt play them.

Playing a unpainted army is kinda like watching a new vivid color movie..on a black and white TV, can still be enjoyable but ultimately lacking its full potential.

I love painting , converting etc of my models, and would never field anything unfinished..but thats me, I dont impose my standards on anyone else.

I dont really plays games of 40k anymore for the thrill of winning, its more for the spectacle of the game, and a horde of grey plastic has little spectacle for me. :(

I have and will play grey hordes..but I wont seek out games with those kind of players, in the same way I dont think I will ever buy a black and white tv again.

My Military gaming group was fun though..the guys were not allowed to field unpainted models in a game, so during the week leading up to the game, the guys would be "competing" on getting the new stuff painted, but since they are expensive they also wanted them to look good, it was great fun to see the guys armies expand each week, and some of the soldiers enlisted their wives and kids in painting. And the Hobby actually became a more family affair, with peple bringing stuff to grill and food . It was nice.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Why not paint your army? you
1: Have a great looking thing you can be proud of
2: Get great compliments.
3: If you dont like it, it can improve discipline and patience.
4: If you find it boring, put on a TV show you like, that is how i paint.
Painting is part of the entire hobby IMO.

I can think of several different reasons why I wouldn't.
1.) Don't want to dedicate time and effort
2.) Don't want to get the painting supplies and set up
3.) Simply not wanting to. It's not required for the game, why should I?
4.) Self conscious. How do you know I'll get compliments? Have you seen some of the threads out there mocking paint jobs, not on this forum that I've seen but definately they exist? How do I know I won't end up on that?
5.) I turn the t.v. on when I sit down to paint. Well now the t.v. is on and I'm watching that. I hate painting but love the show, why should I pay attention to it?

There's still the issue that a lot of people aren't getting. It's my army, why should I paint it to satisfy you?

You are correct, it is your army, if you do not wish to paint it, then that is your rright.
but know that people will not like it and deal with it.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

4.) Self conscious. How do you know I'll get compliments? Have you seen some of the threads out there mocking paint jobs, not on this forum that I've seen but definately they exist? How do I know I won't end up on that?

Wow man, it sounds like you have much worse problems than what it sounds. People are jerks; that's out there. We do all have our preferences but having never seen any of your attempts I am 1000% sure that whatever you do will be way better than some of the stuff I've seen. You only get better with practice. If you choose not to, that's cool. But dude, I can absolutely promise you that you are way better than you're giving yourself credit, purely based on the fact you're self conscious.

 Rysal190 wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:

4.) Self conscious. How do you know I'll get compliments? Have you seen some of the threads out there mocking paint jobs, not on this forum that I've seen but definately they exist? How do I know I won't end up on that?

Wow man, it sounds like you have much worse problems than what it sounds. People are jerks; that's out there. We do all have our preferences but having never seen any of your attempts I am 1000% sure that whatever you do will be way better than some of the stuff I've seen. You only get better with practice. If you choose not to, that's cool. But dude, I can absolutely promise you that you are way better than you're giving yourself credit, purely based on the fact you're self conscious.

Or he could end up with something like this.

http://1d4chan.org/images/6/69/2009_01_10_Fyrbrand.jpg

What really grinds my gears are blowhards that think that no one in the hobby should dare fielding a grey army.

I spent $400 on models this year, and yes, I've only painted 5 marines. As a result, actually, I haven't played a game yet because I'm afraid some superior neckbeard is going to criticize me for it and I'm going to be ostracized as someone who is not serious about the hobby.

Keep in mind, I just got into this hobby, I've been doing research into what units to buy and I finally made my first purchase, a couple of boxes of Dark Vengeance, and I'm worried that someone is going to criticize me for not having every one of my models painstakingly filed down and painted to a Professional Standard.

Will you people please relax and be more welcoming towards people in this hobby? Not everyone has had 2000 points in models laying around for 6 years and all the time to paint them. I have to work full time to spend $400 on a few piles of plastic models, and that means 40 hours a week that I'm not sitting around painting embossed shoulder insignias. Sorry.

Oh. Just remembered another great reason to not paint.

Indecisive: You can't figure out a good color scheme, are looking for a special one to come to mind, are waiting for inspiration, don't want to use a common scheme, or whatever reason.

It took me a while before I found a scheme I liked enough to finally put paint to plastic. I wouldn't rush anyone that hasn't found one that is perfect for them.

I love to paint but almost all of my armies are unpainted. Why? I love painting single miniatures to competition level quality; I have come to close to nabbing a crystal brush.

I had someone try to crap on me because I was playing a primer and plastic army; said I don't appreciate the hobby because I didn't paint my stuff. I should be "ashamed." Then my cohorts all told him about my competition models and that they all crap themselves when they see my detailed work.

I have an air brush now (won it in a painting competition...), so I'll be getting three colors on my play armies a lot faster. But to anyone that says bare plastic or primer armies are "lesser players," jog on.

Everyone gets something different from hobbies and we should be encouraging and not d-bags about it. Not everyone paints to my level. I know when I see armies better painted than my work, I feel a bit discouraged; if someone routinely gets harped on and sees pretty miniatures, they may feel like getting out rather than learning and putting the effort forth.

Stop being negative to others who run bare plastic. If they are TFG, it will be obvious above bare plastic or primer armies. Don't give those guys respect. However, NEVER look down on anyone with a bare plastic army. They'll paint someday and if not, they may still end up being great players and good friends. This is friendly hobby. We should support positive growth and not downer. If you can't play someone who doesn't have a painted army, you're the problem, not the other person.

 TedNugent wrote:
What really grinds my gears are blowhards that think that no one in the hobby should dare fielding a grey army.

I spent $400 on models this year, and yes, I've only painted 5 marines. As a result, actually, I haven't played a game yet because I'm afraid some superior neckbeard is going to criticize me for it and I'm going to be ostracized as someone who is not serious about the hobby.

Keep in mind, I just got into this hobby, I've been doing research into what units to buy and I finally made my first purchase, a couple of boxes of Dark Vengeance, and I'm worried that someone is going to criticize me for not having every one of my models painstakingly filed down and painted to a Professional Standard.

Will you people please relax and be more welcoming towards people in this hobby? Not everyone has had 2000 points in models laying around for 6 years and all the time to paint them. I have to work full time to spend $400 on a few piles of plastic models, and that means 40 hours a week that I'm not sitting around painting embossed shoulder insignias. Sorry.

No one is saying proffesional. People are just saying put some love on them.