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Painting isnt fun for me and I play an IG army and no place to paint models as I share my room with my brother and his piano is already taking up most of our room . It also costs a lot, I would rather buy some plasma guns for my veterans or marbo or a tank then buy paints , brushes and find a place to paint god only knows where.

Makumba wrote:
Painting isnt fun for me and I play an IG army and no place to paint models as I share my room with my brother and his piano is already taking up most of our room . It also costs a lot, I would rather buy some plasma guns for my veterans or marbo or a tank then buy paints , brushes and find a place to paint god only knows where.

This is quite untrue. A basic tabletop Guard scheme can be done with two primary colours, silver, a skin tone, a brown, two washes (Id recommend Army Painter Dark Tone Ink for the silver, and Army Painter Strong Tone or Light Tone for the overall model) and a colour primer, with one brush (a GW standard sized brush, but buy it at an art store for 80% less). Make sure the colour primer is one of the primary colours. That's 7 paints and a spray can, and a brush. For your whole army. This method is also quite fast and gets a decent looking army on the table.

For example (spoilered if you don't really care):

I'll still play a game with the person, its just not as enjoyable. I notice the more competitive players in my area seem to paint less. But as long as there is an intent to eventually paint, im okay with unpainted minis

 -Loki- wrote:

This is quite untrue. A basic tabletop Guard scheme can be done with two primary colours, silver, a skin tone, a brown, two washes (Id recommend Army Painter Dark Tone Ink for the silver, and Army Painter Strong Tone or Light Tone for the overall model) and a colour primer, with one brush (a GW standard sized brush, but buy it at an art store for 80% less). Make sure the colour primer is one of the primary colours. That's 7 paints and a spray can, and a brush. For your whole army. This method is also quite fast and gets a decent looking army on the table.

You can say to someone all you need t do is this this and that and we can both paint models, your will look good and mine will look horrible. Some people just lack the aptitude for it.

 EmilCrane wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

This is quite untrue. A basic tabletop Guard scheme can be done with two primary colours, silver, a skin tone, a brown, two washes (Id recommend Army Painter Dark Tone Ink for the silver, and Army Painter Strong Tone or Light Tone for the overall model) and a colour primer, with one brush (a GW standard sized brush, but buy it at an art store for 80% less). Make sure the colour primer is one of the primary colours. That's 7 paints and a spray can, and a brush. For your whole army. This method is also quite fast and gets a decent looking army on the table.

You can say to someone all you need t do is this this and that and we can both paint models, your will look good and mine will look horrible. Some people just lack the aptitude for it.

The method I described takes hardly any aptitude. You can even skip the relayering and have a decent looking tabletop force, and the only aptitude required is being able to 'colour inside the lines'. Put down the basic colours, making sure to stay in the lines, hit the whole model with an army painter ink. Done, tabletop quality.

 reaverX wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

 reaverX wrote:
but could really care less

Urgh. This "grinds my gears" more than any amount of painting or lack thereof.

Understandable. However I find no joy in it at all and would rather go workout, climb, stare at a wall, etc. I only care about the tactics of the game and rolling dice. I do enjoy conversions/modeling but that's another story. Now I enjoy seeing other peoples completed work but I look at it like I do tattoos. I appreciate the artwork but wouldn't put it on myself (or in this case paint the model).

In case you still aren't understanding his statement...

"Could care less" is not the right phrase 99.999% of the time. You should say "couldn't care less".

I like the way my army looks painted, so I try to paint it up as much as I can. Time constraints mean it'll probably never be 'complete' to my own standard and will rather end up as a perpetual project of mine. What other people do with their own minis is absolutely no concern of mine.

Don't enjoy painting that much, and no paint requirements in my area, so unless the bug bites I don't because 1) I don't enjoy it, 2) I'm not good at it, and 3) would rather spend money on models and time on HW/Games

25 minutes to paint (not including drying)
sprayed with bone colour primer/undercoat
painted red parts
painted quick shade
job done


even this is 100% better then an unpainted model.

rigeld2 wrote:

 reaverX wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

 reaverX wrote:
but could really care less

Urgh. This "grinds my gears" more than any amount of painting or lack thereof.

Understandable. However I find no joy in it at all and would rather go workout, climb, stare at a wall, etc. I only care about the tactics of the game and rolling dice. I do enjoy conversions/modeling but that's another story. Now I enjoy seeing other peoples completed work but I look at it like I do tattoos. I appreciate the artwork but wouldn't put it on myself (or in this case paint the model).

In case you still aren't understanding his statement...

"Could care less" is not the right phrase 99.999% of the time. You should say "couldn't care less".

I should have caught that. Gotta quit day drinking and posting on dakka...

I personally only field models in my army that are fully painted. I really don't care whether or not my opponent's army is partially grey or even fully unpainted.

 stokecity_m wrote:

Spoiler:

25 minutes to paint (not including drying)
sprayed with bone colour primer/undercoat
painted red parts
painted quick shade
job done


even this is 100% better then an unpainted model.

In your opinion. For people with higher standards why should they waste the 25 minutes to paint this, the hours to strip and then the days to re-paint? Why not just assemble and then play with minis that are WIP?

Or if you loathe painting like me, I'd rather do many things than waste 5-25 minutes per mini (my current Nid army is really low model count - only 27 plus 2 Tervigons... But I've run upwards of 80) just to have to strip them later "when I have time to do it right".

rigeld2 wrote:

In your opinion. For people with higher standards why should they waste the 25 minutes to paint this, the hours to strip and then the days to re-paint?

You don't have to strip it. If you later want to paint it better, this is perfectly good starting point. Just start adding highlights and other details on it.

 stokecity_m wrote:

Spoiler:

25 minutes to paint (not including drying)
sprayed with bone colour primer/undercoat
painted red parts
painted quick shade
job done


even this is 100% better then an unpainted model.

And what about the Chaos Chosen that come with the Dark Vengeance set? They have a grotesque amount of detail on them, and as a person that really likes to paint their minis well, it is incredibly time consuming to "just paint in the lines" considering most of those lines are jagged and asymmetrical.

Or course you can paint any tyranid model with ridiculous ease and have them look decent. Even Orks and Imperial Guard can do the same with only slightly more effort expended. But painting highly detailed models or trying to get a CSM's armor to not look like absolute ass takes a bit more time than that.

So plucking out a random model then telling everyone how ridiculously easy to paint it is doesn't really add anything to the discussion about whether or not it is acceptable for a person to have a largely unpainted army considering that the word "army" could mean a million easy to paint gribbles, or a smaller, far more detail oriented force of models.

However, it does raise an interesting question. Do you find it worse if a Tyranid or Imperial Guard player has an unpainted army rather than someone who say...has an army made up entirely of forgeworld/highly detailed models?

. That's 7 paints and a spray can, and a brush. For your whole army.

yes and even If I got to a hobby store and not buy GW paints and buy the cheapest black undercoat , I have one unit less then If I didnt buy them at all. Paying for something I neither want or can do is a waste of cash for me , on the other hand If I used the money to buy models I will be using them all the time.

The method I described takes hardly any aptitude. You can even skip the relayering and have a decent looking tabletop force, and the only aptitude required is being able to 'colour inside the lines'. Put down the basic colours, making sure to stay in the lines, hit the whole model with an army painter ink. Done, tabletop quality.

sure buy me a place to paint close to my home and I will do it .

My only rules - ASSEMBLE YOUR FREAKING MODELS. No torso-less legs on bases or headless tac marines, etc. Make a fair attempt at WYSIWYG (which is more for simplicity sake than anything) and where you can't do that, right it down and let me know ahead of time. That's IT. I would RATHER play against a fully painted army and I always try to paint my stuff to the best of my abilities, but I recognize that not everyone has the time/money/skill/inclination, etc to paint. So to me, being upset about it is like saying "You're having fun wrong!" lol I just can't take my war dollies that seriously.

I wish people would stop confusing the HOBBY with the GAME.

For some people they are the same, for others not. I am a Gamer not a hobbyist. I enjoy playing the game. Thats like telling a chess player you won't play him cause he didn't make his own chess board, or he can't fish cause he didn't make his own pole.

I have had painted armies before and I hate doing it so much so I quit playing for awhile. If you enjoy painting i'm glad , hell might even envy you. It is not and will never be for me, But I enjoy the hell out of the game.

If you refuse to play me cause I don't have a painted army is your right. Just like it's my right not to paint it, But in all honesty it saids a lot worst about you then me. I would never refuse a game to anyone ever because I enjoy the game not the hobby.

Steel Angel wrote:


For some people they are the same, for others not. I am a Gamer not a hobbyist. I enjoy playing the game. Thats like telling a chess player you won't play him cause he didn't make his own chess board, or he can't fish cause he didn't make his own pole.

That's not equal at all. Chess players aren't expected to make their own board. Miniature wargamers aren't expected to design and cast their own figures.

If you're simply a 'gamer', then why don't you save yourself a lot of cash and play the game with paper cutouts?

If you're simply a 'gamer', then why don't you save yourself a lot of cash and play the game with paper cutouts?

I really really hate this argument. An unpainted Space Marine is still WAY cooler than than a paper cutout. Plus, if someone can't, doesn't like to or simply won't paint, what makes you think they will take the time to make proper cutouts? And why even bother stopping at cutouts? anyone remember that batrep from a few years back where an entire Ork Army was proxied from match sticks? No. Just no. It's a silly argument imo, and not at ALL the same thing. Do some of you seriously not see a difference between an assembled but unpainted mini and a candyland style paper cutout? Really?

 infinite_array wrote:

Steel Angel wrote:


For some people they are the same, for others not. I am a Gamer not a hobbyist. I enjoy playing the game. Thats like telling a chess player you won't play him cause he didn't make his own chess board, or he can't fish cause he didn't make his own pole.

That's not equal at all. Chess players aren't expected to make their own board. Miniature wargamers aren't expected to design and cast their own figures.

If you're simply a 'gamer', then why don't you save yourself a lot of cash and play the game with paper cutouts?

Because with true line of sight cutouts don't properly configure the game right.

Speaking of which, that cutout thing at this point is pretty elitist when it comes down to it. People like the models, but they don't like to paint. "Oh sorry, get cutouts if your not a TRUE HOBBYIST."

Tycho wrote:

If you're simply a 'gamer', then why don't you save yourself a lot of cash and play the game with paper cutouts?

I really really hate this argument. An unpainted Space Marine is still WAY cooler than than a paper cutout. Plus, if someone can't, doesn't like to or simply won't paint, what makes you think they will take the time to make proper cutouts? And why even bother stopping at cutouts? anyone remember that batrep from a few years back where an entire Ork Army was proxied from match sticks? No. Just no. It's a silly argument imo, and not at ALL the same thing. Do some of you seriously not see a difference between an assembled but unpainted mini and a candyland style paper cutout? Really?

Well, here's the thing. I've seen (and played) plenty of wargames that use hex-boards and cardboard chits. Those are for the 'gamers' - the people who are there to play a wargame without the visuals of miniatures. (And I'm not saying they're in any way inferior - I own a few myself).

The point of miniatures is to use them as a visual aid to play a wargame. Their use is completely superfluous to the game. Why waste the time and cash of buying and assembling miniatures when you could use circular cutouts with the relevant data printed on them?

I should also add that I'm not the kind of guy who won't play you because you don't have a painted army. I won't give you crap for not being able to paint your miniatures, or if you'd like to take your time. What I will argue against is the idea that, somehow, miniature wargaming and painting aren't in any way related.

This interests me though - are prepainted miniatures, then, a viable alternative? Should GW sell their miniatures with a prepaint color scheme (say, Ultramarines for Space Marines, Cadians for IG, etc.?)

 infinite_array wrote:

Steel Angel wrote:


For some people they are the same, for others not. I am a Gamer not a hobbyist. I enjoy playing the game. Thats like telling a chess player you won't play him cause he didn't make his own chess board, or he can't fish cause he didn't make his own pole.

That's not equal at all. Chess players aren't expected to make their own board. Miniature wargamers aren't expected to design and cast their own figures.

If you're simply a 'gamer', then why don't you save yourself a lot of cash and play the game with paper cutouts?

really? Hmmm..? Seems it dosn't matter what is expected or enjoyed it matters what the other player wants that is your stance.

I could save myself some cash and walk around in underwear and a bathrobe ,too but i don't i wear jeans and a t-shirt cause i want to.

Guess what i didn't color them either.

Keep setting up those strawmen and have fun knocking them down.

An to answer the question yes I would just play with cut outs if i had to. I did for years with Battletech before they had any minies. I did with 40k 2nd
with cut out dreads.

to me their kewl game pieces to you their models that are works of art. I respect how you view of it. Please respect mine thats all I ask.

interesting responses in this thread... definitely a few people I hope to never run into at the gaming table

to answer the OP's question: facing an unpainted army doesn't bother me. would I prefer to play painted armies? absolutely. would I refuse to play unpainted armies? no way. that'd be a pretty crappy thing to do, imo. there are all kinds of reasons people don't paint their minis and all of those reasons are valid. it's not really my place to argue with someone about why they haven't painted their army or to even try and talk them into it. they've made their choice and I accept that.

personally, I won't field an unpainted model. this is a limitation I freely placed upon myself back when I got started simply because I prefer the aesthetic of a fully painted army. I got into the hobby to paint, originally, and I put a lot of time and effort into every one of my minis (thank the dark gods I don't play a horde army...). painting is an aspect of the hobby that I very much enjoy, even if it drives me crazy at times that said, I would never expect other players to feel the same way about it that I do. so long as my opponent is cool, I'll play against them any day.

proxies are a different matter, because they can effect how the game is played. if we're just talking wargear options ("this guy has a power sword"), then I could care less. just have it written down on your list somewhere. if we're talking models that are at least of similar size to what they're being proxied as, fine. using a guardsman to proxy a space marine or a rhino to proxy a predator, for example. LOS, facing, model footprint, measuring and whatnot will work similarly enough to the real model that it doesn't screw with the rules at all. I draw the line at crazy stuff like "this 40mm base, which has no model on it, is a dreadknight" or "this soda can is really a stormraven". at least bring something that's the right size to the table even then, though, I'd probably let it slide for a game or two...

I don't mind playing with unpainted armies, even if the whole army is grey. There is a worst offender (me)

I'm a worst offender becuase I love the warhammer 'hobby'. Sometimes I play with painted marines on only its legs and torso attached. One game I had to tell me opponent my one full squad of Blood Angel Assault marine the red ones are normal, black ones have meta guns and gold one is sergent. I felt bad that game too but my oppounite saw that I already have 2 full squads of assault marine he said he didn't mind.

We all have our take on how this 40K hobby should be. I think to be a good gamer you have to respect your opponent's take on it. If my opponent can show me they love to game as much as I do I won't mind playing cardboard pieces.

Wow, lots of hyperbole here! Everyone has his or her own standard, and that's ok. Everyone's case is unique.

Personally, I hate playing with unpainted models. To me, if a unit isn't ready to take the field, it isn't ready to take the field. Luckily my little group agrees, more or less. I would still play somebody if his or her army were unpainted, but then again I don't play pick-up games so this may not be relevant to me.

40K is both a game and a hobby, and immersion is an important part of the hobby. Those saying why not use card cutouts aren't being ridiculous, they are just asking where do you then draw the line? If unpainted armies are fine, then what about terrain? Are a tennis shoe and a beer can on the table just fine then too? "I don't have time to make any terrain, so let's fight over that box of pop tarts." Does the game still play ok? Sure. Nevertheless, is something lost in the process?

Yes.

I like to paint all the models I can, but I'm a slow painter at the best of times, and even when I paint I'm not very good. Even so, I at least undercoat everything before it comes out, and I wont buy any more until the stuff is painted. In this group I played with, you would lose points for each unit that was unpainted, in an attempt to make sure people kept up with their warhammer.

I don't like playing unpainted armies. I don't judge the person doing it, but I prefer the opponents that have fully painted armies, preferably nice looking, but I don't mind basic as long as it's neat.

That's my opinion, I enjoy the game more when the visuals are good (nice terrain, nice armies, nice venue).

Buying, assembling/converting, painting and then using miniatures in the game is what my hobby is about.

I'd rather see an unpainted army, then a primed only army, but that's just me.