Games Workshop Boycott!!! (Online Store Freedom)

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**rhothy**

I know that my subject message above might come off as a bit Harsh, so if you think I am asking everyone to stop playing/buying GW products than know that I am not asking for you all to find a new hobby, rather I am asking everyone to think about supporting the websites that we all know and love. The websites that have supported and help grow our hobby over the years by bring forums, battle reports, painting tutorials etc... to the masses.

With that said, I want to thank all of the people/companies out there for all of your support over the years.

What I fear is not that I now have no choice but to pay a few bucks more for my GW products, but that the local gaming stores will stop carrying products from a company that does not support their retailers... ie... reducing direct service items etc...

Lets take it a step further... companies like hordes bits, the bitz barn etc... will in essence be put out of business by these new changes.

I understand that this change in policy is to prevent companies from selling recasts sold "as is, without te boxes" which you can find relatively easily on ebay where one guy is selling 4-5 of one specific item at a deep discount. Look I get it... but what happens if companies like Dakka Dakka etc... decide to stop supporting the hobby now that they are no longer able to sell their products.

Lets take this a step further. Lets say that GW decides to change a "convenience fee" to be able to purchase products direct from their website? Oh wait... they already do that unless you spend $50+, which they are forced to due because of online competition. Once they kill the online market place whats to keep them from changing it to free shipping on orders of $200 or even $400 or less.

In addition, to a degree I can understand GW's position on wanted to prevent companies from counterfeiting their products and selling them without the box, but I do not see the reason for GW to stop legitimate companies from selling bits other than to increase GW's already large profit margins by forcing someone like myself looking for a few monstrous creature bits to have to buy another $50+ tyranid modle so I can get another set of TW devourers. Personally I'll start casting my own copies of the bits for my owner personal use before I shell out another few hundred dollars to outfit my 6 carnefex's to be WYSIWYG.

With this in mind... I propose that we the gamers join up with retailers to organize an online boycott of the GW store for a month to start, because I for one think that companies like MWG/dakka dakka etc...deserve to be able to make a living selling GW products as a reward for all of their hard work to promote the hobby.

What are your thoughts... will you stop buying products from the GW website for a few months if it gives companies the ability to start selling again online?

The first response that I received to my post was…

Really?

Yes, GW is cutting off their nose despite their face. Does it hurt great websites like MWG? Yes.

Does GW give 2 farts? No.

Look, no matter how you cut it... 40k is the most popular table top game in NA. Warhammer
Fantasy is the second. By most popular, I mean that GW beats out all the other gaming systems
very hard. I wouldn't be surprised if GW has 80% market penetration. That is effectively a
monopoly.

Since GW is a monopoly, they can do whatever they want and our only options are to stop
playing/buying their products, or to keep going on as normal.

Given the choice, I'll continue to play 40K. I will continue to buy kits that I like/want. I have a
very strong feeling that 95% of the other 40k players out there will too, even if they post here
supporting your pitiful boycott.

TL;DR: GW is a monopoly and can do whatever they want, and our options as consumers is to deal
with it or quit all together. I choose deal with it.

I completely disagree with what he has to say. His response is the problem. Even the smallest grass roots type movement can have large reactions. However... it has to be clear and concise as to what we want... and what we want is a choice as to where/who to buy our products from online... we are their consumers/customers. Why cant we dictate what “we want”!
If enough people stop buying products from their online store between now and June when the changes go into effect... than GW will have to rethink their position.
I am not asking everyone to stop buying products from GW or to start playing new games like Warmachine etc... but if we all band together with the companies that we love like MWG than maybe we can tell the bully in the school yard to learn to play with the independent online retailers.

I say stop the bully by hitting them where it hurts by Boycotting the GW online web store from now until they change their policy.

**pretre**

This is not news or rumor.

**Bildsturmer**

-Removed-

**Sigvatr**

Watchout, a random person asking others to boycot GW.

Viva la revolution!

...ehem.

**Alfndrate**

Triangle of Friendship

I'm not quite sure what you're planning on doing with this OP, but remember this isn't new or rumors, so it belongs in Dakka Discussions.

**lord_blackfang**

Another month, another call for boycotting GW. Yawn.

**tarnish**

I play the games, i buy what i feel like, i do as i please and i dont have to be told how to think again and again... bottom line is that i enjoy gws products and i can live with the current prices because i buy smart or used when possible.

GW hate is fine, but please, we have all seen this before and it´s hardly news.

**HoverBoy**

Pff, you americans should have paid more attention to what big companies will be able to do with the laws your government passes.

**rhothy**

This is not a random piece of news... I spoke with a GW sales Rep today on the phone about it who confirmed.

And I am not asking people to stop buying GW products... try reading the entire post... I am simply asking that people stop buying their products directly from the GW online store... Thus we are supporting the gaming community and our 3rd party companies like War Bitz... Daka Dakka, MWG, Bitz barn etc...

If there policies go into effect... there will be no more bitz sites. Do you want to see this? I do not. Without the online competition...

GW needs to learn to play nice in the online sandbox.

**pretre**

rhothy wrote:
This is not a random piece of news... I spoke with a GW sales Rep today on the phone about it who confirmed.

Yeah, we have a huge thread on it:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/514316.page

And I am not asking people to stop buying GW products... try reading the entire post... I am simply asking that people stop buying their products directly from the GW online store... Thus we are supporting the gaming community and our 3rd party companies like War Bitz... Daka Dakka, MWG, Bitz barn etc...

And this isn't news or rumors...

If there policies go into effect... there will be no more bitz sites. Do you want to see this? I do not. Without the online competition...

There is no if. They will go into effect.

**Fishboy**

Surely this isnt Robert is it

**spiralingcadaver**

1, it's cutting off your nose to "spite your face"- inflicting self-harm as an overreaction; not umm, doing it regardless of having a face.

2- that's actually a more reasonable suggestion than I was expecting (boycotting GW as a whole). Only time I ever buy direct is for stuff I can't otherwise get, which is probably less than once a year, but that's a decent idea, not that I expect anything to become organized enough to make a notable difference.

**nkelsch**

rhothy wrote:

And I am not asking people to stop buying GW products... try reading the entire post... I am simply asking that people stop buying their products directly from the GW online store... Thus we are supporting the gaming community and our 3rd party companies like War Bitz... Daka Dakka, MWG, Bitz barn etc...

How about people 'Pay where they Play'?

**pities2004**

If I want to buy something from the GW store, I'm going to buy something from the GW store. I'm in for the hobby and crap happens, deal with it

**Sigvatr**

rhothy wrote:
This is not a random piece of news... I spoke with a GW sales Rep today on the phone about it who confirmed.

And I am not asking people to stop buying GW products... try reading the entire post... I am simply asking that people stop buying their products directly from the GW online store... Thus we are supporting the gaming community and our 3rd party companies like War Bitz... Daka Dakka, MWG, Bitz barn etc...

If there policies go into effect... there will be no more bitz sites. Do you want to see this? I do not. Without the online competition...

GW needs to learn to play nice in the online sandbox.

And who are you to ask this, huh? You are a random person with no reputation coming to an open online forum, with nothing to back you up; you open a thread and then expect what? People suddenly going like "Woah man, I am totally gonna change my way of buying stuff!". This is not going to happen. Period. This entire thread is completely pointless. Sorry, but just saying the truth.

**NickF509**

America is a feed me country. The vast majority of people don't care enough to know that our society is designed to feed money to large companies and was built that way from the beginning. It really doesn't matter, i just hope that I'm dead and my kids are prepared when at some point there is no money left to be spent and no credit left to borrow and entitlement turns to outrage.

HoverBoy wrote:
Pff, you americans should have paid more attention to what big companies will be able to do with the laws your government passes.

**rhothy**

if one company is able to get away with it... who is to say that other companies will not do the same down the road?

**Azreal13**

rhothy wrote:
if one company is able to get away with it... who is to say that other companies will not do the same down the road?

Many other companies are run by competent individuals with an eye towards long term future growth.

**daedalus**

rhothy wrote:

What I fear is not that I now have no choice but to pay a few bucks more for my GW products, but that the local gaming stores will stop carrying products from a company that does not support their retailers... ie... reducing direct service items etc...

This is already happening.

Lets take it a step further... companies like hordes bits, the bitz barn etc... will in essence be put out of business by these new changes.

I understand that this change in policy is to prevent companies from selling recasts sold "as is, without te boxes" which you can find relatively easily on ebay where one guy is selling 4-5 of one specific item at a deep discount. Look I get it... but what happens if companies like Dakka Dakka etc... decide to stop supporting the hobby now that they are no longer able to sell their products.

I'm pretty sure that it's just to prevent people from getting wholesale stuff and breaking it up. If you buy from a wholesaler or at list price, you're golden. These companies will stick around. Hell if nothing else, you create two companies, with one being the bitz business, and then you have the one buy from the other.

Also, Dakka is not a company, nor does it sell models.

Lets take this a step further. Lets say that GW decides to change a "convenience fee" to be able to purchase products direct from their website? Oh wait... they already do that unless you spend $50+, which they are forced to due because of online competition. Once they kill the online market place whats to keep them from changing it to free shipping on orders of $200 or even $400 or less.

What "convenience fee" are they charging already? You mean shipping? I can't take you seriously.

Let's take it two steps further, and suppose they force each individual person to open a wholesale account with them and buy a certain amount of product or they won't sell to you at all. Let's take it three steps further, and suppose they regularly lie test you to determine if you're buying non-GW miniatures! Egad! Scary! And equally unfounded.

In addition, to a degree I can understand GW's position on wanted to prevent companies from counterfeiting their products and selling them without the box, but I do not see the reason for GW to stop legitimate companies from selling bits other than to increase GW's already large profit margins by forcing someone like myself looking for a few monstrous creature bits to have to buy another $50+ tyranid modle so I can get another set of TW devourers. Personally I'll start casting my own copies of the bits for my owner personal use before I shell out another few hundred dollars to outfit my 6 carnefex's to be WYSIWYG.

Yup, it's a rather asinine policy. It's one of the more unfortunate sides of business when you're publicly traded and owned predominantly by hedge funds and investment corps.

With this in mind... I propose that we the gamers join up with retailers to organize an online boycott of the GW store for a month to start, because I for one think that companies like MWG/dakka dakka etc...deserve to be able to make a living selling GW products as a reward for all of their hard work to promote the hobby.

What are your thoughts... will you stop buying products from the GW website for a few months if it gives companies the ability to start selling again online?

Yeah, this is an awesome idea! All you failed to take into account is the following:

- Boycotting for any amount of time is inherently useless unless the duration is "until things change".
- Dakka isn't a company, and it doesn't sell models.
- Rather than boycott, why not organize a "buycott", and just have a bunch of people spend their money on GW stock instead of GW models. _THAT'S_ how you change business practices nowadays.

Furthermore, you read like a form letter that you just change the name of the target to reflect that you were posting on Dakka. That also limits your credibility.

**notprop**

They already do, you just noticed GW that's all.

Still never be let it said I won't back a underdog, you go girlfriend and all that jazz.

What is this the 3rd/4th call for a boycott this week?

**marv335**

Time to reset the clock.
Again...

**DarknessEternal**

Thanks for letting me know to put you on ignore.

**Trondheim**

Nice to know I should from now on ignore your posts.

**pretre**

DarknessEternal wrote:Thanks for letting me know to put you on ignore.

Trondheim wrote:Nice to know I should from now on ignore your posts.

Umm. Great minds think alike?

Can we be done here yet?

**fire4effekt**

Something tells me this is good for my Brick and Mortar, and it's a good time to start a bitz store

**MeanGreenStompa**

Dear OP,
Every 4 months or so GW does something fairly obnoxious, to varying degrees of injury to the hobby or retailers or fanbase.

During these times there is initial outburst anger and vehemence, especially from those in the hobby who are 'cresting the wave' from being initially enthused to becoming more aware of the business practices, mindset and attitude of the company.

You may be surprised that your outrage is not shared, that we give you a jaded and cynical response, but for many of us, the company's mustache twirling, conniving, bullying and greed have long passed our anger and lounges nonchalantly in our apathy.

I used to love the company, dearly. I then passed into absolutely hating it. Recently I've split my feelings over it, I continue to love much of the background, many of the minis and playing the game with friends, but I loathe the corporation, it's arrogance, bullish attitudes, intolerance and overweening pride. Perhaps that will change when that bloated spider in the web, Kirby, leaves the company but I wonder what will be left after his wringing of every last dollar from it.

Meanwhile, I spend little now with them, if they produce something really good and I can justify the price (something rare nowadays) I'll still buy it, but likely now I will be moving more and more into other games and, more likely, other mini ranges to play the still popular GW games. I am currently pricing out alternative models to build a Vampire Counts army for fantasy and I think it can be done fairly easily and a lot cheaper, thanks to mantic, gamezone miniatures, reaper, avatars of war and many others. Also an imperial guard army with mantic's corporation and perhaps some hasslefree and studio mcvey minis as officers.

So chill, let them carry on with their evil schemes, wish a pox on their house quietly and await the downfall/change of ownership/replacement as top dog that will eventually claim them.

I burned up a lot of energy and enjoyment of the hobby by raging against them, now I just mutter, roll my eyes and get 'creative' in obtaining what I need to continue my hobby enjoyment.

Don't waste your time on them.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

pretre wrote:
DarknessEternal wrote:Thanks for letting me know to put you on ignore.

Trondheim wrote:Nice to know I should from now on ignore your posts.

Umm. Great minds think alike?

Can we be done here yet?

The guy is 7 posts old, we have no clue of his age or experience and time with the hobby. Many of us were angry like him at one or other stages of our wargaming past. I hardly think 'ignore' is justified.

**daedalus**

So, in spite of totally having less exclamation marks, my solution to this got locked.

Hello, textdump:

myself wrote:
We seem to get some variation of the "Let's all boycott GW because of x" thread here about twice a month. More generally in response to unfavorable policy changes, price hikes, or other seemingly goofy actions being taken by GW. My goal is to provide a well reasoned explanation on why every single boycott has failed so far, why each one will continue to fail, and why you're only hurting the odds of one succeeding by recommending it. My fear is that this will not change anything, and I'll have wasted my time upon deaf ears.

On Why Boycotts are a Bad Idea, and Why Yours is Destined to Fail

First off, you may or may not be aware that boycotts are called upon specifically for GW products once or twice a month at Dakka alone, sometimes more often still if there is a well publicized fiasco or a sudden and painful corporate policy change, like a price hike. Frustration or irritation at these things are natural and to be expected. You're not to blame for feeling that way. I mean, after all, we're all only here because we enjoy 40k/Fantasy, and like it or not, GW is 40k/fantasy. Their rules, their miniatures, their sandbox. That anger and hatred you feel only shows you are genuinely passionate. Otherwise, you'd shrug and hang it up to do something else.

The problem here though is that you're boycotting something out of anger, it's something you accept as a hobby, and you're specifying a duration for it. Consider the statement, "Let's boycott GW for x number of days." Assume that your movement grabs momentum, and suppose even 50% of all sales are disrupted for that period of time. Now consider that I'm Tom Kirby (or some underling capable of making the policy change you've demanded). You, as a "protester", just defeated yourself by stipulating a period of time that you were boycotting the product. This all but broadcasts that you're returning back to being a customer once your period of time is over. You're going to buy those things you've deprived yourself of, and guess what? You only managed to resist buying it for so short a period of time, it's probably still on this quarter's earnings, That's right. I don't even have to point out your petulant little stunt to the people I am beholden to. You have done nothing but waste your time. In all fairness, I probably didn't even know your boycott happened.

Boycotts in general, unless executed properly, are a terrible idea, because with every unsuccessful person screaming for a knee-jerk boycott in response to a price hike, or an edition change, or whatever, there are people who might have taken it seriously who listen. They might even follow your lead, no matter how poorly thought out it might happen to be. At the end of the exercise, for the reasons mentioned above, they see nothing has changed. Congratulations, you've just killed off someone who might have been able to help make a difference. You've turned them into a cynic. They won't bother next time. You're preserving the status quo and helping GW. Well done.

So then, how do you have a good boycott? It's simple. You turn it into your hobby. You don't boycott for a week, a month, or even a year. You boycott. Period. Full stop. Once you've done that, you don't stop there. You market it. You develop a face for your cause; a polished website at a easy to find location, notifications at websites, youtube, maybe even advertisements. Tell your plan to everyone you can, in well thought out terms, and what you hope to cause. Advocate alternate games. Put up flyers in stores talking about how GW stuff hurts your community. Work on getting your local groups at your FLGS into other games, and let your FLGS owner know that you all are cool if s/he drops GW stuff.

A Brief Commentary on My Observations of Publicly Traded Companies and "Greed"

This is going somewhere, I promise. Publicly traded companies have a obligation to their stockholders to make money. This drives up their stock price, and also pays dividends. The problem here is that continual growth is desired. It doesn't matter if you make one billion dollars a year or one hundred billion, so long as you're making 10% more than that next year. It might not actually be 10%. It might be 5%, or 20%, or something entirely different. My point is that continual growth is demanded. As you all know, continual growth in perpetuity is not really sustainable. This means that, at times, you have to squeeze other elements, cutting costs, to achieve whatever your goal is. GW is not "greedy", it is simply full of people who want to meet their bonus numbers and keep their jobs, just like everyone else in a corporate environment.

The New Face of a GW Boycott; My Personal Recommendation

I have a simple and interesting idea. I make no guarantee that this will work. I'm not even aware of anyone who has even campaigned for something like this. It's a straightforward idea though. If you want to organize a boycott, go one step further. Take all that money you would have spent on GW product, and instead buy GW stock. If you don't like the way the company is being run, own the company. Urge anyone else who is interested in change in GW to do the same. Sell it to people as I recommend. Just, please, stop crying wolf on boycotts every other week.

---

Personally, I don't care about a boycott. I wouldn't support it, but I wouldn't rally against it or anything stupid like that. Would I like cheaper plastic army men? Of course. At the same time, they're plastic army men. It's a luxury good, being sold by a single company. I could manage without, and would probably be better off spending my money on something "productive".

I've just grown very, very tired of seeing this same topic come up time and time again. The above is genuinely what I believe you need to do to make this successful. Do it, or stop complaining.

**Samurai_Eduh**

Oh look, another one of these threads.

**Palindrome**

Boycotts like this don't work, indeed they can't work, as by their nature they are very small scale.

If you really want to do something just stop buying from GW entirely and play one of the many fine, and indeed superior, wargames on the market, or if you must play a GW game source everything from 3rd party manufacturers or 2nd hand from ebay so that you are still economically boycotting GW.

GW is undoubtable complacent and greedy but they are heading for a shock which will maybe, just maybe, set them back on the path that they abandoned over a decade ago.

**pretre**

Palindrome wrote:
GW is undoubtable complacent and greedy

No doubt.

but they are heading for a shock which will maybe, just maybe, set them back on the path that they abandoned over a decade ago.

Doubt. People have been saying this for 10-20 years.