Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Boycotts never get anywhere because there's no unified support for anything in the hobby and most people don't care. They're plastic men, it's not some gross ethical violation from some food producer that turns their customers against them in droves.

I don't know what lies in GW's future, I don't think they are doing themselves any good and I think their attitude to placing themselves in the hobby is toxic to other companies and for customer choice. But there's nothing I can do, I don't buy their stuff any more anyway do that's as far as it goes.

They actually do, granted it does take a small effort on the part of those who care a bit one way or another. You don't necessarily need everyone to agree on how GW should fix their problems - you just need to get those who agree that their is a problem to agree to do the same thing. Clicking a like or joining a Facebook group is one of the easiest ways that you can round them up. Doesn't take much effort at all on the part of those who are disenfranchised, and it has passive advertising effects as those who you are connected to through that network will see and possibly support the issue.

The second thing, and something which I have seen happen myself (was a consultant who cataloged the responses to data mine them) is to send GW HQ copies of your receipts for purchases for other peoples products. Leave a note, like "Today I went into my local hobby store and instead of buying your Land Raider, I bought 3 kits from Privateer Press" [not trying to make it a GW v PP thing...just a company name] or "I wanted to order some miniatures online today, but sadly you don't have any independent online retailers anymore, so I ordered some Freebooter miniatures from The War Store instead" or "I wanted to make a new Blood Bowl team, but unfortunately you have stopped producing new Blood Bowl miniatures - so instead I ordered a new team from Impact Miniatures".

Short messages, to the point. It takes half a minute to scribble a note on a piece of paper and scan in a receipt to email off to GW HQ (or use snail-mail/faxes...those archaic methods of communication often have more impact because it is a tactile item that they have to physically push about). Provided that a concerted effort could be made to move things in the same general direction - there will be a response.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:
Would this ban of products being sold on sites like Dakka Dakka also count as bring banned from selling stuff on ebay?

You might want to read up a bit on what's going on. None of what you asked about is occuring.

1) Dakka doesn't sell things.
2) People on dakka and e-bay wouldn't be affected unless they bought directly from GW.

Or from a supplier who buys from a distributor who buys from GW.

The only ones who are truly not impacted would be individuals who are selling leftovers from their own personal projects or those who are selling off old armies. Everyone else in North America will be touched by the regulations in some manner if they make money dealing with GW products online.

You mean the online US regulations that have been in effect since 2003. Yeah they really shut down selling of 40k on eBay.

 pretre wrote:
You mean the online US regulations that have been in effect since 2003. Yeah they really shut down selling of 40k on eBay.

Again...you need to look more closely. Up until now, you could skirt the issue in a number of different ways. Retailers who purchase through distributors were not under the same internet restrictions as retailers who purchase from GW directly. Retailers could also sell items to...say Bob, the local eBay fanatic for a 30% discount, he could sell them through eBay. The store taps a market that is out of their reach, Bob makes a bit of money on the side, GW's restrictions are met to the letter (though not intent).

The new rules forbid retailers from selling through eBay (or other online source). They forbid distributors to sell to retailers who sell through eBay (or other online source). They forbid retailers from selling to a third party who is acting as a business (who might then sell online). They are significantly different than the 2003 rules, and as written will have a significant effect on things like availability on eBay.

Guess we will see in 3 months when this thread rolls around again.

Bully my ass....none of you are interested in actually protecting the 'little guy' or you'd be buying all your models from your LOCAL independent game store not some online discounter.

Admit the truth, the only thing you want is CHEAP MODELS you don't give a rats ass about the little guy, or the independents, you only care that you get your hobby for a little less than the standard retail price.

News flash, GW going after all the online discounters who don't have to pay for all the staffing and overhead of your actual local independent is called PROTECTING THE LITTLE GUY. Yeah, they are forcing you to buy online from their store...at full retail price none the less... but you all have the option of walking into an actual local independent to pick your models up. If you DON'T have a local independent around then apologies as you are an unintended victim.

Making life rough for webstores is not GW screwing over it's customers. Despite what web store running independents are telling these polices are to protect their independent retailers by making sure they don't have to lose business to online discounters with far lower staffing and overhead costs.

As for Australia.....damn near everything there is 2-2.5x more expensive than it is in Canada why the hell would you think Toy soldiers would be different?

Orktavius wrote:
Bully my ass....none of you are interested in actually protecting the 'little guy' or you'd be buying all your models from your LOCAL independent game store not some online discounter.

This has come up more than once, the answer is always that people do buy from their FLGS, but not everyone has a local store. Setting aside the issue that GWs grand plan is to cut out those FLGSs people who don't have one nearby should have a choice other than to buy from GW direct or drive several hours to the nearest store.

 pretre wrote:
Guess we will see in 3 months when this thread rolls around again.

You misspelled "two weeks".

Orktavius wrote:
Bully my ass....none of you are interested in actually protecting the 'little guy' or you'd be buying all your models from your LOCAL independent game store not some online discounter.

Admit the truth, the only thing you want is CHEAP MODELS you don't give a rats ass about the little guy, or the independents, you only care that you get your hobby for a little less than the standard retail price.

News flash, GW going after all the online discounters who don't have to pay for all the staffing and overhead of your actual local independent is called PROTECTING THE LITTLE GUY. Yeah, they are forcing you to buy online from their store...at full retail price none the less... but you all have the option of walking into an actual local independent to pick your models up. If you DON'T have a local independent around then apologies as you are an unintended victim.

Making life rough for webstores is not GW screwing over it's customers. Despite what web store running independents are telling these polices are to protect their independent retailers by making sure they don't have to lose business to online discounters with far lower staffing and overhead costs.

As for Australia.....damn near everything there is 2-2.5x more expensive than it is in Canada why the hell would you think Toy soldiers would be different?

As annoying as this is, he does have a very valid point, How many of us have been in a non GW FLGS and seen or heard people buying cheap on line and then happily using the facilities for free. If on-online because more expensive maybe people will shop more at their FLGS.

I do however disagree that this is GW intention. They just aren't that smart - personal experience.

Reading this makes me feel like all is lost in the moral standards of today. Honestly: the people that are stout defenders of this insane policy, or even passive about the current situation, are those that continue to worsen the situation. How can you love a game that is fueled by the ignorance of it's consumer base and built up by a company with a blatant disregard for it's community? It's pure insanity!

If GW was really interested in protecting the "little guy" they would not have put a $500 per month restriction on the availability of their direct order items (1800 items).

A call for a boycott on a forum is not very useful because people that hate GW already have quit buying and people that enjoy the hobby just arent likely to stop buying GW products.

Maybe GW has the right idea about gamers, after all they have been selling some of those finecast heralds for nearly $25 each, which I consider beyond insanely expensive. As long as people are willing to pay an ever increasing price, you can bet it will keep going up.

 TheMostSlyFox wrote:
Reading this makes me feel like all is lost in the moral standards of today. Honestly: the people that are stout defenders of this insane policy, or even passive about the current situation, are those that continue to worsen the situation. How can you love a game that is fueled by the ignorance of it's consumer base and built up by a company with a blatant disregard for it's community? It's pure insanity!

"Love" - I am simply not that emotional involved in making my purchases of toy soldiers. Regardless of where you get your minis you are supporting GW profits - that is a simple fact of life. unless you stop buying from GW you are part of the problem you are complaining about.

I have stopped buying GW products and am just off loading everything I own. Not because I have an issue with GW (which I do btw) but because I hate 6th and hate 8th and so no longer play.

 Byte wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
One cuts off one's nose to spite his face, not despite it.

Aleady been covered.

Well no, Your nose is not covered now that it is missing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Orktavius wrote:
Bully my ass....none of you are interested in actually protecting the 'little guy' or you'd be buying all your models from your LOCAL independent game store not some online discounter.

Admit the truth, the only thing you want is CHEAP MODELS you don't give a rats ass about the little guy, or the independents, you only care that you get your hobby for a little less than the standard retail price.

News flash, GW going after all the online discounters who don't have to pay for all the staffing and overhead of your actual local independent is called PROTECTING THE LITTLE GUY. Yeah, they are forcing you to buy online from their store...at full retail price none the less... but you all have the option of walking into an actual local independent to pick your models up. If you DON'T have a local independent around then apologies as you are an unintended victim.

Making life rough for webstores is not GW screwing over it's customers. Despite what web store running independents are telling these polices are to protect their independent retailers by making sure they don't have to lose business to online discounters with far lower staffing and overhead costs.

As for Australia.....damn near everything there is 2-2.5x more expensive than it is in Canada why the hell would you think Toy soldiers would be different?

butthurt on a forum, are we?

The problem in australia is centerlink; since everyone (even the jobless) has a little money to make the world go round, everything is just that little more expensive.

That doesn't help us that don't get anything from centerlink, mind you. We're "Rich".

JWhex wrote:
If GW was really interested in protecting the "little guy" they would not have put a $500 per month restriction on the availability of their direct order items (1800 items).

A call for a boycott on a forum is not very useful because people that hate GW already have quit buying and people that enjoy the hobby just arent likely to stop buying GW products.

Maybe GW has the right idea about gamers, after all they have been selling some of those finecast heralds for nearly $25 each, which I consider beyond insanely expensive. As long as people are willing to pay an ever increasing price, you can bet it will keep going up.

How many non webstore independents do you think sell more than $500 a month worth of characters and other direct order stuff? The vast majority of stuff on the direct order list are items that really don't move all that quickly in the first place. As for GW not being smart enough to protect it's brick and mortar independents....your letting your blind hate get in the way as you seem to forget that years ago GW changed the requirement for stockists so that it REQUIRED them to have a proper commercial brick and mortar presence. Only reason for this was to end the guys selling GW product out of their basement on the web with virtually no overhead in order to protect their legitimate independents.

I can see where he's coming from, The Game Closet in Waco stopped carrying a lot of GW products because people are getting sick of their attitude problem. I understand GW would want to protect their interests, but this is becoming ludicrous. GW is doing the same thing TSR did back in the eighties and 90s: overprotecting, over-charging, and under-appreciating their products and fanbase.

TSR really shot itself in the foot when they started threatening legal action against fan-based sites, even when said sites put all the legalese right out in the open on the front page. I guess they thought their fans would stick with it even though they were being abused by the very company they'd come to love. I also guess that's why they had to call Gary Gygax (Praise His Name!) back to clean house, so to speak. Suffice to say, if they hadn't done that, TSR would have been selling it's products on the streets.

That's my two cents.

Orktavius wrote:
Bully my ass....none of you are interested in actually protecting the 'little guy' or you'd be buying all your models from your LOCAL independent game store not some online discounter.

Admit the truth, the only thing you want is CHEAP MODELS you don't give a rats ass about the little guy, or the independents, you only care that you get your hobby for a little less than the standard retail price.

News flash, GW going after all the online discounters who don't have to pay for all the staffing and overhead of your actual local independent is called PROTECTING THE LITTLE GUY. Yeah, they are forcing you to buy online from their store...at full retail price none the less... but you all have the option of walking into an actual local independent to pick your models up. If you DON'T have a local independent around then apologies as you are an unintended victim.

Making life rough for webstores is not GW screwing over it's customers. Despite what web store running independents are telling these polices are to protect their independent retailers by making sure they don't have to lose business to online discounters with far lower staffing and overhead costs.

As for Australia.....damn near everything there is 2-2.5x more expensive than it is in Canada why the hell would you think Toy soldiers would be different?

I pay full retail for my GW. At my FLGS. I have no advantage buying at my store other than giving them business and getting to get my hands on what I buy in real time(limited selection of course, I do order stuff through them as well).

I never buy retail bits, anywhere. I've never ordered any GW online.

My point is, do I represent a segment of other gamers? Should I get mad at my FLGS because they never discount? Should I rage?

Orktavius wrote:
Bully my ass....none of you are interested in actually protecting the 'little guy' or you'd be buying all your models from your LOCAL independent game store not some online discounter.

Friend of mine saw a post on 4Chan that was similar to yours.

It went a little something like this:

"You should be buying from your LGS anyway!"
"I'm Australian. Feth you."


Orktavious - I'm Australian. Guess the rest.

You're not really boycotting GW until you start buying some other gaming systems models and playing their games.

Anything else is just posing.

Nah I'm pretty sure that you don't need to buy something different to boycott a product. That'd just be "buying something different", and not a boycott.

No, it would just be one way of boycotting..

 scarletsquig wrote:
You're not really boycotting GW until you start buying some other gaming systems models and playing their games.

Anything else is just posing.

Mate, that's the daftest thing I've read all day.

If I give up wargaming, and take up basketball instead, I've entirety boycotted GW.

Admit it, your just after more mantic sales right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheMostSlyFox wrote:
Reading this makes me feel like all is lost in the moral standards of today. Honestly: the people that are stout defenders of this insane policy, or even.......

So.. Numerous genocides, the Catholic Church condemning millions to death by AIDS, and Muslims throwing acid in little girls faces didn't make you lose your faith in society's moral standards, it was people not being that bothered about games workshop? :-D

Many of us agree with you.. We just don't get that bent out of shape about it because there are bigger things in the world than wargaming. Perhaps it's your moral compass that's broken.

I'd be more sympathetic to the plight of Australian gamers HSBC if I didn't already know you pay so much fething more for EVERYTHING not just toy soldiers. I know your minimum wage being nearly double mine isn't the only factor affecting price...but that's a damn big factor and leave me wondering what tariff's GW get's nailed with when they ship in product...for instance in Canada GW get's nailed with a 15% tax for importing goods which goes a long way to explaining why I pay $12 for a book that's only $8 in the US.

Corporate greed isn't the only bloody explanation and I'll bet there's a LOT of things you pay a similar amount more for than just GW.

Orktavius wrote:
I'd be more sympathetic to the plight of Australian gamers HSBC if I didn't already know you pay so much fething more for EVERYTHING not just toy soldiers.

Except companies who actually give a gak are trying to get prices at parity with the US. You cite toy soldiers? I'll cite Corvus Belli. My FLGS doesn't discount it, and yet I only pay slightly above the direct EUR exchange rate. And they're covering importing and store overheads with that.

Yes, some companies charge us more. A nice recent example is last week, Adobe, Apple and Microsoft were called before the sumpreme court to defend their pricing. They were all nice and honest about it. Apple cited iTunes overpricing as out of their control - pricing is set by the music and movie industires. Fair enough. Their hardware? It's nearly at parity here with the US. Like Corvus Belli, I'd rate them as a company that cares about Australian consumers, for all the flak they get.

Adobe and Microsoft? Yeah, they had some nice words that I wouldn't be surprised to hear from GW. ''Yes, we use geoblocked prices in Australia, suck gak. Pay it or don't, your average wage is higher'. And that's really the only reply expected - when it's cheaper to fly to Los Angeles and buy the most recent Creative Suite and fly home than it is to buy locally, it's hard to defend.

Australians don't pay more for everything. A lot of products have been on a nice downward spiral in terms of cost over the last couple of years - even DVDs, Blu Rays and Music have dropped about 30%, and we know how much those industries care about anything but money. Some industries and outlying companies are refusing to do it. GW is one of them, and their excuses are the same bull gak Adobe and Microsoft pull.

Here's a tip - if our average wage is higher, but our cost of living is higher still, what makes you think the average Australian has the same amount of money to spend on hobbies as the average American? Higher wages only have a positive affect if the cost of living is lower.

Orktavius wrote:
Bully my ass....none of you are interested in actually protecting the 'little guy' or you'd be buying all your models from your LOCAL independent game store not some online discounter.

Admit the truth, the only thing you want is CHEAP MODELS you don't give a rats ass about the little guy, or the independents, you only care that you get your hobby for a little less than the standard retail price.

News flash, GW going after all the online discounters who don't have to pay for all the staffing and overhead of your actual local independent is called PROTECTING THE LITTLE GUY. Yeah, they are forcing you to buy online from their store...at full retail price none the less... but you all have the option of walking into an actual local independent to pick your models up. If you DON'T have a local independent around then apologies as you are an unintended victim.

Making life rough for webstores is not GW screwing over it's customers. Despite what web store running independents are telling these polices are to protect their independent retailers by making sure they don't have to lose business to online discounters with far lower staffing and overhead costs.

As for Australia.....damn near everything there is 2-2.5x more expensive than it is in Canada why the hell would you think Toy soldiers would be different?

Its a big world my friend and not everyone lives in a country that can suport an endless amount of LGS.. We dont have many stores around as it is. And those that we have that are independet have to survive on internet sales to survive. We are about 9 million people in sweden, our hole population is about the same as the City of New York. If you screw with the internet sales, many of the stores here even in our larger citys will close down. Those that we have now are in cheaper off locations, because the hobby is not large enough with so few people. So what will remain is probably Games workshops own store. This is one of the reasons I back alternative games.. Because if enough people start buying other games then GW, the stores here can keep their doors open... But as it is now most of them wont survive without the GW products.. The largest gaming venue we have in stockholm, survive on being an Internet caffe/and Gaming venue for alot of diffrent games, Magic/boardgames/RPGs etc. They no longer sell GW products in their little store, and I think they survive becuse of the local klubbs giving them money so they have a place to play. We have good goverment sponsored grants for groups that do many diffrent things here in sweden. And that is how many of our gaming communitys survive...

Now I ask you how is this good for the Hobby?? If most of the places where you could find the miniatures for table-top gaming get shut down and put out of business??
....

Actually there is no wargaming store in my country, we have to buy stuff online via retailers or GW's site, and we have to find our own places to play. Still if there was a local store i'd gladly buy from there if it meant i have a place where i can just walk in and play.

So all of you complaining about local stores not giving you discounts, you just don't know how good you all have it.

 HoverBoy wrote:
Actually there is no wargaming store in my country, we have to buy stuff online via retailers or GW's site, and we have to find our own places to play. Still if there was a local store i'd gladly buy from there if it meant i have a place where i can just walk in and play.

So all of you complaining about local stores not giving you discounts, you just don't know how good you all have it.

Isn't there one in Nodnol?

Wherever that place you're mentioning is, it isn't in Bulgaria.

EDIT: Waaait i get it, mildly funny, pretty obscure.

I didn't know Red Dwarf was obscure in geek circles.

I wish someone would show me where this $500 limit on direct is, I can't find it anywhere in my Trade terms.

That is the limit the MWG said they had on the items outside of the core movers. Likely it isn't in any particular set of trade terms and is leveraged against companies which move a lot of those products (as they moved $2500-5000 worth of those items a month).

I support GW and their right to sell what they design and what they make how they please. Its their product. Not saying i agree with it but hold them to no obligation other than provide a product i enjoy and will continue to enjoy for many years to come.