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It's politically charged of course so YMMV, I would point out that people aren't desperately heading to Cuba in anything that can float, so I'd guess it's probably not that great.
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
It has an okay system. You can say it's a pretty good system considering the limitations of being a fairly poor nation. But those limitations would be much less if it wasn't a fairly poor nation, and it's a fairly poor nation because its communist (and while much of that is due to communism sucking, it's also in part due to the entirely bizarre US embargo)
I also think it's a bit strange to consider a nation just in terms of its healthcare. That's a really important thing, but when Cuba holds large numbers of political prisoners and press freedom is practically zero (and it's an often deadly thing to challenge that) then it's a bit strange to say 'but they've got adequate healthcare'.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Peregrine wrote: Communism is inevitability. Eventually technological progress will eliminate scarcity (after all, there's plenty of raw materials and energy in the solar system) and money will cease to exist as a relevant concept. Civilization will inevitably become something Marx would entirely approve of, simply because doing anything else would make no sense.
Of course communism before reaching that point is a broken system, as history nicely demonstrates.
There will always be scarcity. Communism inevitably leads to the joys of a murdering dictatorship.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Byte wrote: As long as theres a bigger cave and more women in the other clan we will have the "haves and the have nots" Its human nature..chemical if you will.
Communal government can never happen. Look at all the 70's cults, it was all about the leader having access to the women and children while being revered as a prophet/god.
I'll take capitalism.
Unless you're the guy with 47 mercedes and really bad sunglasses of course. Then its pretty cool.
Byte wrote: Name one true Communist country by definition, o wait you can't. That's the rub.
A country, in the modern sense? Of course we can't; no modern nation has done so.
But many of the pre-Columbian native American tribes managed it quite effortlessly. The trick is making it work at something bigger than the tribal level.
You mean the ones where they executed prisoners by ripping their hearts out? Sure they did. They were loving communal empires, except of course the royalty and priests had these really big houses, and everyone else didn't.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/25 11:21:56
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Karl Marx himself thought that Russia would be the last country to be communist. Communism is a gradual change over time, Empires to Kingdoms to Democracy to Socialism to Communism. China and North Korea would be just as corrupt if they are "capitalistic". You don't see people calling out the "failing of capitalism" because Libya, Zimbawae and Syria are corrupt. Also, this reminds me of 18th and 19th century when the ruling class thought that democracy is a bad idea. You could say the Russian revolution is like the French Revolution and the first attempt of communism did not succeed. So what? What did we learn? We can learn from past Commmunist societies to improve the ideals and try not to make the same mistakes.
Peregrine wrote: Communism is inevitability. Eventually technological progress will eliminate scarcity (after all, there's plenty of raw materials and energy in the solar system) and money will cease to exist as a relevant concept. Civilization will inevitably become something Marx would entirely approve of, simply because doing anything else would make no sense.
Of course communism before reaching that point is a broken system, as history nicely demonstrates.
There will always be scarcity. Communism inevitably leads to the joys of a murdering dictatorship.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Byte wrote: As long as theres a bigger cave and more women in the other clan we will have the "haves and the have nots" Its human nature..chemical if you will.
Communal government can never happen. Look at all the 70's cults, it was all about the leader having access to the women and children while being revered as a prophet/god.
I'll take capitalism.
Unless you're the guy with 47 mercedes and really bad sunglasses of course. Then its pretty cool.
Byte wrote: Name one true Communist country by definition, o wait you can't. That's the rub.
A country, in the modern sense? Of course we can't; no modern nation has done so.
But many of the pre-Columbian native American tribes managed it quite effortlessly. The trick is making it work at something bigger than the tribal level.
You mean the ones where they executed prisoners by ripping their hearts out? Sure they did. They were loving communal empires, except of course the royalty and priests had these really big houses, and everyone else didn't.
Your first statement is similar to what the monarchy use as their reason to try and destroy democratic nations in 18th and 19th century Europe. You have just quoted propaganda of the first degree. If American did not try to intervene for the corrupt South Vietnamese regime, Uncle Ho would be left in charge and the country would of been left in peace. I remember you are a banker, you are an upper class citizen who uses propaganda to try and demean the ideaology that gives wealth inequality and helps the poor. Shame on you, only the most oppressed men and women can believe the capitalist propaganda without critising it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/25 11:48:04
While the US is commonly vilified as the bastion of capitalism, it is little known that the US too has tried communism. It was only when communism failed that property rights and capitalism took hold.
Let us go back into history and see what lessons America learned from its relatively short dalliance with Maoism much before the ‘great leader' himself was born.
The year was 1607. The first 104 settlers had arrived from Europe in Jamestown in the Virginia Tidewater region of the US in May. They found soil which was fertile beyond what they had seen in the lands which they had left. Fruits were abundant. Wild game such as deer and turkey were everywhere. There was no shortage of fish and other seafood. And yet within six months 66 of the original Jamestown, Virginia settlers had died. Only 38 survived.
Another 500 settlers were again sent to settle in Virginia in 1609 and within six months 440 of these too died by starvation and disease. This was called ‘starving time' and one eyewitness described it in English of those times, ‘So great was our famine, that a Savage we slew and buried, the poorer sorte took him up againe and eat him; and so did divers one another boyled and stewed with roots and herbs.'
How could this be? How could there be such death and starvation amidst so much plenty of meat, fruits, and fish. The fault as the witness said lay not in the ‘barrenness and defect of the Countrie' but in the ‘want of providence, industry and government'.
What caused this lack of ‘industrie'? Were the Virginian settlers lazy and indolent? It could not be. People who were sent there were the chosen ones – the very best of men.
The problem was that all the men who were sent were bonded labourers. They had no stake in what they produced. They were bound by contract to put all they produced into a common pool to be used to support their colony as a whole. This was communism in its purest form. Everyone was supposed to work according to ability and take according to need.
As so frequently happens with present day government policies, the results were the opposite of what was intended. Since hard work was not personally beneficial for the settlers they responded by stopping work.
Phillip A. Bruce, a late 19th century US historian, wrote of the Jamestown immigrants, “The settlers did not have even a modified interest in the soil … . Everything produced by them went into the store, in which they had no proprietorship.” The result as Bruce wrote would be what anyone who has any knowledge of human nature would expect, men, even the most energetic, refused to work.
This is what happened in Mao's China and in Soviet Russia on a grand scale. In America a few hundred deaths stopped the communist experiment, in China and Russia, millions had to die before these nations abandoned the principles of Marx, Lenin, and Mao.
Jamestown changed course just two years later in 1611 with arrival of the ‘high marshall' Sir Thomas Dale from the UK. He understood the problem, freed the settlers by abrogating communal ownership. Each man received three acres of land and, other than a lump sum tax of 2 ½ barrels of corn, did not have to contribute anything to the common pool. The colony immediately began to prosper. It prospered because each individual directly benefited by his labour and knew that he would also bear the full consequences of any reduction in output. Private ownership and capitalism worked.
Communism doesn't work because it destroys the reward and work nexus. Communism doesn't work because the absence of property rights heralds the end of all incentive to produce. Communism doesn't work because humans do no wish to sacrifice themselves to the common good.
Sturmtruppen wrote: A concept tarnished by those who have claimed to be working towards its ends, or evil in its purest form? What do the people of Dakka Dakka think?
Communism is a pure wonderful idea that can never be carried out because Humans are flawed and greedy. Simply put the flaw of communism is the people attempting it. Even if you have Honorable Fair Leadership, there will be laziness elsewhere this cancer spread and hurts the overall group.
Communism can work in small communities of less than 1000 as the number and social pressure work towards keeping the group in one cohesive force moving forwards toward their goal.
Edit because trhat is not a word
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/25 13:26:36
8000 Dark Angels (No primaris)
10000 Lizardmen (Fantasy I miss you)
3000 High Elves 4000 Kel'shan Ta'u "He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which." -Douglas Adams
Communism works in the Star Trek universe, so there!
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
rockerbikie wrote: Karl Marx himself thought that Russia would be the last country to be communist. Communism is a gradual change over time, Empires to Kingdoms to Democracy to Socialism to Communism. China and North Korea would be just as corrupt if they are "capitalistic". You don't see people calling out the "failing of capitalism" because Libya, Zimbawae and Syria are corrupt. Also, this reminds me of 18th and 19th century when the ruling class thought that democracy is a bad idea. You could say the Russian revolution is like the French Revolution and the first attempt of communism did not succeed. So what? What did we learn? We can learn from past Commmunist societies to improve the ideals and try not to make the same mistakes.
Peregrine wrote: Communism is inevitability. Eventually technological progress will eliminate scarcity (after all, there's plenty of raw materials and energy in the solar system) and money will cease to exist as a relevant concept. Civilization will inevitably become something Marx would entirely approve of, simply because doing anything else would make no sense.
Of course communism before reaching that point is a broken system, as history nicely demonstrates.
There will always be scarcity. Communism inevitably leads to the joys of a murdering dictatorship.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Byte wrote: As long as theres a bigger cave and more women in the other clan we will have the "haves and the have nots" Its human nature..chemical if you will.
Communal government can never happen. Look at all the 70's cults, it was all about the leader having access to the women and children while being revered as a prophet/god.
I'll take capitalism.
Unless you're the guy with 47 mercedes and really bad sunglasses of course. Then its pretty cool.
Byte wrote: Name one true Communist country by definition, o wait you can't. That's the rub.
A country, in the modern sense? Of course we can't; no modern nation has done so.
But many of the pre-Columbian native American tribes managed it quite effortlessly. The trick is making it work at something bigger than the tribal level.
You mean the ones where they executed prisoners by ripping their hearts out? Sure they did. They were loving communal empires, except of course the royalty and priests had these really big houses, and everyone else didn't.
Your first statement is similar to what the monarchy use as their reason to try and destroy democratic nations in 18th and 19th century Europe. You have just quoted propaganda of the first degree. If American did not try to intervene for the corrupt South Vietnamese regime, Uncle Ho would be left in charge and the country would of been left in peace. I remember you are a banker, you are an upper class citizen who uses propaganda to try and demean the ideaology that gives wealth inequality and helps the poor. Shame on you, only the most oppressed men and women can believe the capitalist propaganda without critising it.
What propaganda?
1. there will always be scarcity. Thats just physics. Duh.
2. Communism is the worst of all worlds. A) it ignores basic human precepts; B) it ignores basic physics rules; C) to achieve it, it requires massive, unyielding dictatorship and intrusion in all aspects of life. D) once the dictactorship gets power, it never gives up power.
Now that can be evilllzzz dictactorship like North Korea or Pol Pot, or it can be a Vogon style bureaucratic dictatorship. It still dictatorship. Now come and witness the violence inherent in the system!
Human nature dictates that communism is utopia. You'll only find it in heaven. Indeed many of the precepts are like that.
Sturmtruppen wrote: A concept tarnished by those who have claimed to be working towards its ends, or evil in its purest form? What do the people of Dakka Dakka think?
Communism is a pure wonderful idea trhat can never be carried out because Humans are flawed and greedy. Simply put the flaw of communism is the people attempting it. Even if you have Honorable Fair Leadership, there will be laziness elsewhere this cancer spread and hurts the overall group.
Communism can work in small communities of less than 1000 as the number and social pressure work towards keeping the group in one cohesive force moving forwards toward their goal.
True dis.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/25 12:26:04
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2. Marriage is the worst of all worlds. A) it ignores basic human precepts; B) it ignores basic physics rules; C) to achieve it, it requires massive, unyielding dictatorship and intrusion in all aspects of life. D) once the wife gets power, it never gives up power.
Frazz, I fixed that for you
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2. Marriage is the worst of all worlds. A) it ignores basic human precepts; B) it ignores basic physics rules; C) to achieve it, it requires massive, unyielding dictatorship and intrusion in all aspects of life. D) once the wife gets power, it never gives up power.
Frazz, I fixed that for you
I think what we have here is what is called "revealed truth."
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
However, the main issue is the economic problem, in that everyone has unlimited wants but the resources are scarce.
The world, at the moment, is massively overpopulated (in my view anyway, have you tried getting through Dubai Mall on a Friday afternoon?). As a result, there's great competition to gain resources among people and countries. This is demonstrated by the world's inequality. Some have a lot, others don't, those with a lot don't really want to give a lot away (I'm not talking about the 1% or anything. I'm talking about the Western World compared to, say, Sierra Leone). The competitiveness therefore results in greed. Imagine having a room full of 100 dollar bills: at some point, you'd want more than just one room of 100 dollar bills, won't you? And if you see Mr Smith across the road carting wheelbarrows of money into his house, you'd want to be equal, or better, than him, won't you? Then we have poor Mr Jones next door to you and Mr Smith, who doesn't have this room stuffed with money. He'd want a room stuffed with money as well, won't he?
So let's say Mr Jones becomes the head of this state. He's still poor(er), and so he tries to redistribute the wealth. You and Mr Smith probably wouldn't be too happy about this, after all, in your eyes you've worked hard for this room full of 100 dollar bills, and you've seen your wealth accumulate over time. You'd resist Mr Jones' attempts to redistribute your wealth, wouldn't you?
This is why communism won't work: people who have the stuff don't want to give it up, and people without it will want the stuff that others have. This is natural. You cannot change it. No amount of technology will prevent scarcity, especially now, where there are billions of people in the world who have the greed of Mr Smith. Why be someone's equal when you can be better?
rockerbikie wrote: Karl Marx himself thought that Russia would be the last country to be communist. Communism is a gradual change over time, Empires to Kingdoms to Democracy to Socialism to Communism. China and North Korea would be just as corrupt if they are "capitalistic". You don't see people calling out the "failing of capitalism" because Libya, Zimbawae and Syria are corrupt. Also, this reminds me of 18th and 19th century when the ruling class thought that democracy is a bad idea. You could say the Russian revolution is like the French Revolution and the first attempt of communism did not succeed. So what? What did we learn? We can learn from past Commmunist societies to improve the ideals and try not to make the same mistakes.
Peregrine wrote: Communism is inevitability. Eventually technological progress will eliminate scarcity (after all, there's plenty of raw materials and energy in the solar system) and money will cease to exist as a relevant concept. Civilization will inevitably become something Marx would entirely approve of, simply because doing anything else would make no sense.
Of course communism before reaching that point is a broken system, as history nicely demonstrates.
There will always be scarcity. Communism inevitably leads to the joys of a murdering dictatorship.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Byte wrote: As long as theres a bigger cave and more women in the other clan we will have the "haves and the have nots" Its human nature..chemical if you will.
Communal government can never happen. Look at all the 70's cults, it was all about the leader having access to the women and children while being revered as a prophet/god.
I'll take capitalism.
Unless you're the guy with 47 mercedes and really bad sunglasses of course. Then its pretty cool.
Byte wrote: Name one true Communist country by definition, o wait you can't. That's the rub.
A country, in the modern sense? Of course we can't; no modern nation has done so.
But many of the pre-Columbian native American tribes managed it quite effortlessly. The trick is making it work at something bigger than the tribal level.
You mean the ones where they executed prisoners by ripping their hearts out? Sure they did. They were loving communal empires, except of course the royalty and priests had these really big houses, and everyone else didn't.
Your first statement is similar to what the monarchy use as their reason to try and destroy democratic nations in 18th and 19th century Europe. You have just quoted propaganda of the first degree. If American did not try to intervene for the corrupt South Vietnamese regime, Uncle Ho would be left in charge and the country would of been left in peace. I remember you are a banker, you are an upper class citizen who uses propaganda to try and demean the ideaology that gives wealth inequality and helps the poor. Shame on you, only the most oppressed men and women can believe the capitalist propaganda without critising it.
What propaganda?
1. there will always be scarcity. Thats just physics. Duh.
2. Communism is the worst of all worlds. A) it ignores basic human precepts; B) it ignores basic physics rules; C) to achieve it, it requires massive, unyielding dictatorship and intrusion in all aspects of life. D) once the dictactorship gets power, it never gives up power.
Now that can be evilllzzz dictactorship like North Korea or Pol Pot, or it can be a Vogon style bureaucratic dictatorship. It still dictatorship. Now come and witness the violence inherent in the system!
Human nature dictates that communism is utopia. You'll only find it in heaven. Indeed many of the precepts are like that.
Sturmtruppen wrote: A concept tarnished by those who have claimed to be working towards its ends, or evil in its purest form? What do the people of Dakka Dakka think?
Communism is a pure wonderful idea trhat can never be carried out because Humans are flawed and greedy. Simply put the flaw of communism is the people attempting it. Even if you have Honorable Fair Leadership, there will be laziness elsewhere this cancer spread and hurts the overall group.
Communism can work in small communities of less than 1000 as the number and social pressure work towards keeping the group in one cohesive force moving forwards toward their goal.
True dis.
What I'm getting at the moment you know as much about Communism as the propaganda set against communism has said. You blindly follow the in doctrine taught at your school which is put in place so you follow an ideal that coincides with the capitalistic beliefs of America. If you are going the condemning way, I can do it too, Capitalism supports the slavery and abysmal conditions in Africa and Asia. Capitalism co-incidended with colonialism. You are trying to indicate that class equality causes dictatorship. You fail to realise that if communism does not mean dictatorship, if there is a democratic communist nation. There are fixes for how people structure communism at the moment, but if it succeeds everyone will prosper like democracy has done for us, it can work hand in hand. Rather than focusing on social inequality, you should be worried about helping your fellow man as well. It should be on how hard you work but at the moment in this class system, it can not happen. Cambodia not any of those "communist" nations were ready for communism, communism requires educated people, we need a slow integration. We are not going to become communist in one day. It is over time as the lower classes struggle against the upper ruling elite. We won't get communism any time soon but at least strive for it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/25 13:46:16
However, the main issue is the economic problem, in that everyone has unlimited wants but the resources are scarce.
The world, at the moment, is massively overpopulated (in my view anyway, have you tried getting through Dubai Mall on a Friday afternoon?). As a result, there's great competition to gain resources among people and countries. This is demonstrated by the world's inequality. Some have a lot, others don't, those with a lot don't really want to give a lot away (I'm not talking about the 1% or anything. I'm talking about the Western World compared to, say, Sierra Leone). The competitiveness therefore results in greed. Imagine having a room full of 100 dollar bills: at some point, you'd want more than just one room of 100 dollar bills, won't you? And if you see Mr Smith across the road carting wheelbarrows of money into his house, you'd want to be equal, or better, than him, won't you? Then we have poor Mr Jones next door to you and Mr Smith, who doesn't have this room stuffed with money. He'd want a room stuffed with money as well, won't he?
So let's say Mr Jones becomes the head of this state. He's still poor(er), and so he tries to redistribute the wealth. You and Mr Smith probably wouldn't be too happy about this, after all, in your eyes you've worked hard for this room full of 100 dollar bills, and you've seen your wealth accumulate over time. You'd resist Mr Jones' attempts to redistribute your wealth, wouldn't you?
This is why communism won't work: people who have the stuff don't want to give it up, and people without it will want the stuff that others have. This is natural. You cannot change it. No amount of technology will prevent scarcity, especially now, where there are billions of people in the world who have the greed of Mr Smith. Why be someone's equal when you can be better?
False. With renewable energy and technology built now and technology in development. We can feed the whole of humanity. We have so much food it just sits out on the shelf and thrown out when past work date. We are taught in a capitalistic competitive society that divides us at birth. Sets up class to divide us, then they try to blind us. I don't see how it is far that a person with nasty but efficent standards should earn more money than virtuous people.
ExNoctemNacimur wrote: With renewable energy, what are you making parts for the machinery out of?
Solar which can be formed from recyclable goods. Imagine if we could clone animals and use them for food. A majority of plastics and metals can be recycled.
Yes, but things that are thrown out have a tendency to get thrown in a landfill. Who wants to open up a landfill, climb in there and collect the plastic?
What I'm getting at the moment you know as much about Communism as the propaganda set against communism has said.
You like saying propaganda a lot. I like to say queso much more.
You blindly follow the in doctrine taught at your school which is put in place so you follow an ideal that coincides with the capitalistic beliefs of America.
Ok I’ve learned some important things from this.
1. You don’t take disagreement well.
2. You probably have a beard that isn’t making it. But you keep trying. One day the college chicks may take you seriously. But that will not be this day!
3. You’re not into reading and actually debating the topic.
If you are going the condemning way, I can do it too,
Condemning what? I’m observing that communism relies on aspects of human nature that don’t exist, and ignores other aspects. I also noted communism represents utopia - aka paradise. That’s not exactly condemning something.
Capitalism supports the slavery and abysmal conditions in Africa and Asia. Capitalism co-incidended with colonialism. You are trying to indicate that class equality causes dictatorship.
We’re not discussing the evils of capitalism. We can do that, but that’s separate.
You fail to realise that if communism does not mean dictatorship,
yea it does. Evidently you don’t like top actually read your commie pinko manual. A dictatorship (the State) requires it to reallocate everything and form the society. Theoretically communism is the state beyond this but 1) it never gets there; 2) you have to keep the dictatorship to continue to allocate.
if there is a democratic communist nation. There are fixes for how people structure communism at the moment, but if it succeeds everyone will prosper like democracy has done for us, it can work hand in hand.
This is cute. Its like watching a little bunny by the side of the road, shortly before the hawk pounces and kills it right in front of you. Tbone was cuter when he intentionally stepped on a bug once.
Rather than focusing on social inequality, you should be worried about helping your fellow man as well.
Wait, what? I thought we were discussing communism, not “ten reasons I should shut up before I make comments about other people I have no clue about”
And for the record dogs rule, people drool!
It should be on how hard you work but at the moment in this class system, it can not happen. C
What? Now you’re just kind of rambling.
Cambodia not any of those "communist" nations were ready for communism,
Well the one quarter of the population that were killed certainly weren’t ready for you know, being killed and all.
communism requires educated people, we need a slow integration. We are not going to become communist in one day. It is over time as the lower classes struggle against the upper ruling elite. We won't get communism any time soon but at least strive for it.
Why? The theory started when almost no one was educated. What does education have to do with. Some of the greediest people on the planet are educated. In fact, all of them are. Its like everyone has their own self-interest to look after.
ExNoctemNacimur wrote: With renewable energy, what are you making parts for the machinery out of?
Solar which can be formed from recyclable goods. Imagine if we could clone animals and use them for food. A majority of plastics and metals can be recycled.
But I want more food. And I like swiss cake rolls not Russian cake rolls. Oh crap your whole system just collapsed, all for the love of swiss cake rolls.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/25 14:32:14
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
ExNoctemNacimur wrote: Yes, but things that are thrown out have a tendency to get thrown in a landfill. Who wants to open up a landfill, climb in there and collect the plastic?
Possibly the employees of a recycling corporation who get a nice paycheck for doing so.
The Kasrkin were just men. It made their actions all the more astonishing. Six white blurs, they fell upon the cultists, lasguns barking at close range. They wasted no shots. One shot, one kill. - Eisenhorn: Malleus
Why should they expose themselves to toxic dangers when they can drive a bus or be a janitor? After all, under communism, there's no such thing as a nice paycheck. Everyone gets the same.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: Appending to just your quote as its getting long.
What I'm getting at the moment you know as much about Communism as the propaganda set against communism has said.
You like saying propaganda a lot. I like to say queso much more.
You blindly follow the in doctrine taught at your school which is put in place so you follow an ideal that coincides with the capitalistic beliefs of America.
Ok I’ve learned some important things from this.
1. You don’t take disagreement well.
2. You probably have a beard that isn’t making it. But you keep trying. One day the college chicks may take you seriously. But that will not be this day!
3. You’re not into reading and actually debating the topic.
If you are going the condemning way, I can do it too,
Condemning what? I’m observing that communism relies on aspects of human nature that don’t exist, and ignores other aspects. I also noted communism represents utopia - aka paradise. That’s not exactly condemning something.
Capitalism supports the slavery and abysmal conditions in Africa and Asia. Capitalism co-incidended with colonialism. You are trying to indicate that class equality causes dictatorship.
We’re not discussing the evils of capitalism. We can do that, but that’s separate.
You fail to realise that if communism does not mean dictatorship,
yea it does. Evidently you don’t like top actually read your commie pinko manual. A dictatorship (the State) requires it to reallocate everything and form the society. Theoretically communism is the state beyond this but 1) it never gets there; 2) you have to keep the dictatorship to continue to allocate.
if there is a democratic communist nation. There are fixes for how people structure communism at the moment, but if it succeeds everyone will prosper like democracy has done for us, it can work hand in hand.
This is cute. Its like watching a little bunny by the side of the road, shortly before the hawk pounces and kills it right in front of you. Tbone was cuter when he intentionally stepped on a bug once.
Rather than focusing on social inequality, you should be worried about helping your fellow man as well.
Wait, what? I thought we were discussing communism, not “ten reasons I should shut up before I make comments about other people I have no clue about”
And for the record dogs rule, people drool!
It should be on how hard you work but at the moment in this class system, it can not happen. C
What? Now you’re just kind of rambling.
Cambodia not any of those "communist" nations were ready for communism,
Well the one quarter of the population that were killed certainly weren’t ready for you know, being killed and all.
communism requires educated people, we need a slow integration. We are not going to become communist in one day. It is over time as the lower classes struggle against the upper ruling elite. We won't get communism any time soon but at least strive for it.
Why? The theory started when almost no one was educated. What does education have to do with. Some of the greediest people on the planet are educated. In fact, all of them are. Its like everyone has their own self-interest to look after.
ExNoctemNacimur wrote: With renewable energy, what are you making parts for the machinery out of?
Solar which can be formed from recyclable goods. Imagine if we could clone animals and use them for food. A majority of plastics and metals can be recycled.
But I want more food. And I like swiss cake rolls not Russian cake rolls. Oh crap your whole system just collapsed, all for the love of swiss cake rolls.
My observations from forums posts have been that you are socially left winged and economically right winged. I think by browsing the forums I know quite a lot about you. I am actually into reading, the first problem is that you think you can attack communism without a direct attack back. Pol Pot if you read his policies were more under the line of neotribalism. Your quote about the bunny and the hawk is exactly what happens to the lower class by the upper class. The Upper class and the capitalists control a majority of the assets in America. The top 1% owns 40% of assets. The idea of rising is class does not realisically happen often in capitalist society, wealthy children are inheriently better off. Self interest should be inheriently unimportant compared to working and bettering the state. I am not a "greedy" person. I believe in the good of people and society. Communism is not clear cut into a manual so much, if I have a different approach to it, I have so ever right to take it.
My observations from forums posts have been that you are socially left winged and economically right winged. I think by browsing the forums I know quite a lot about you.
And yet made some asinine statement that I should care more for others. If you knew me you’d realize that was in error.
I am actually into reading, the first problem is that you think you can attack communism without a direct attack back.
What are you the Red Guards? How about discussing the actual merits of the topic instead? Yet if you’d note from the OP – THAT WAS THE POINT.
Pol Pot if you read his policies were more under the line of neotribalism.
Yes, coffee shop communists love to say communism hasn’t been tried yet.
Your quote about the bunny and the hawk is exactly what happens to the lower class by the upper class. The Upper class and the capitalists control a majority of the assets in America. The top 1% owns 40% of assets. The idea of rising is class does not realisically happen often in capitalist society, wealthy children are inheriently better off.
Yep, unfortunately that has nothing to do with the discussion ABOUT COMMUNISM.
Self interest should be inheriently unimportant compared to working and bettering the state.
Should be? I should be the wiener dog spazz emprah, but that’s not going to happen either.
I am not a "greedy" person. I believe in the good of people and society.
Life will disabuse you of that error.
Communism is not clear cut into a manual so much, if I have a different approach to it, I have so ever right to take it.
What? Can you clarify that statement?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Peregrine wrote: Communism is inevitability. Eventually technological progress will eliminate scarcity (after all, there's plenty of raw materials and energy in the solar system) and money will cease to exist as a relevant concept. Civilization will inevitably become something Marx would entirely approve of, simply because doing anything else would make no sense.
Of course communism before reaching that point is a broken system, as history nicely demonstrates.
Even then I seriously doubt that it would work.
There would still be some people that would wan't to have more than those around them for whatever reason, and then, like it always has, the whole utopia would come crumbling down...
Communism has large glaring flaw that for some reason most people overlook: it doesn't take human nature into account.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/25 16:48:55
Marx was very . . . shall we say . . . non-descriptive of Communism itself. He mainly criticised the perceived corruption of society. His manifesto is very light on theory on socialist and communist governments.
Peregrine wrote: Communism is inevitability. Eventually technological progress will eliminate scarcity (after all, there's plenty of raw materials and energy in the solar system) and money will cease to exist as a relevant concept. Civilization will inevitably become something Marx would entirely approve of, simply because doing anything else would make no sense.
Of course communism before reaching that point is a broken system, as history nicely demonstrates.
Even then I seriously doubt that it would work.
There would still be some people that would wan't to have more than those around them for whatever reason, and then, like it always has, the whole utopia would come crumbling down...
Communism has large glaring flaw that for some reason most people overlook: it doesn't take human nature into account.
I pretty much agree with this.
Eventually, you're going to run out of resources. When you run out of your stuff, what then? Your society, which probably has grown tremendously, will not be able to sustain itself, and then you're fethed.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/25 16:53:38
rockerbikie wrote: Self interest should be inheriently unimportant compared to working and bettering the state. I am not a "greedy" person. I believe in the good of people and society.
That is a really "cute" way of thinking. Don't worry, that kind of mentality has a tendency to disappear when you leave your teens.
captain collius wrote: Even if you have Honorable Fair Leadership, there will be laziness elsewhere this cancer spread and hurts the overall group.
Communism can work in small communities of less than 1000 as the number and social pressure work towards keeping the group in one cohesive force moving forwards toward their goal.
Apparently people are not looking at the stuff I pasted into my "spoiler". It's about the Plymouth and Jamestown colonies and their experimentation with communism. Both colonies were under one thousand and both nearly failed catastrophically until communist practices and policies were abolished.
captain collius wrote: Even if you have Honorable Fair Leadership, there will be laziness elsewhere this cancer spread and hurts the overall group.
Communism can work in small communities of less than 1000 as the number and social pressure work towards keeping the group in one cohesive force moving forwards toward their goal.
Apparently people are not looking at the stuff I pasted into my "spoiler". It's about the Plymouth and Jamestown colonies and their experimentation with communism. Both colonies were under one thousand and both nearly failed catastrophically until communist practices and policies were abolished.
I know. My point is that it has been sustained in small communities that live without any modern technology under that size. On the whole however communism doesn't work.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/25 18:17:57
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