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You've just demonstrated that you don't even know what communism means and defends... I really don't know why I wasting my time arguing political theory with children, have a nice day.

Because the person saving someone's life is only in that better position due to luck.

That statement displays such level of ignorance as to beggar belief.

PhantomViper wrote:You've just demonstrated that you don't even know what communism means and defends... I really don't know why I wasting my time arguing political theory with children, have a nice day.

Uh... I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're saying.

Wikipedia:
Communism is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of this social order.

Communism does not include everyone having every job in the world. Communism does not include everyone being identical to everyone else. It simply means that everyone is equal to everyone else, and there is no difference in material wealth available to you because of your job.

I also get the feeling that ever since I told you I'm not at work yet, that somehow in your mind makes me either an idiot or in some way inferior, such that my views automatically count for less (if anything at all). Yes, I haven't been to work. Sure, I've got less experience, but I've also got less bias. Please don't tell me that I'm wrong based on my age, which has nothing to do with whether I'm correct or not.

Frazzled wrote:

Because the person saving someone's life is only in that better position due to luck.

That statement displays such level of ignorance as to beggar belief.

Tell me, have you read what I wrote about fairness? You're arguing against my point without actually saying how I'm wrong or even suggesting that I have any reasons in the first place.

It has little to do with fairness. You made the statement that doctors are only doctors and save lives because they are lucky. IN your paradigm the only difference between the cashier at McDonalds and the Oncologist is "luck."

To make this statement one has to ignore:
*The rigorous screening process just to get into medical school.

*The years of intensive education required, at a level most people (and I am not excluded) cannot handle.

*The years of internships and other sacrfices made to do so.

wow just wow.

And FYI we're not saying anything related to your education, just your inexperience. Thats ok. With experience becomes crankiness and the desire to keep everyone off your lawn.

 Frazzled wrote:
It has little to do with fairness. You made the statement that doctors are only doctors and save lives because they are lucky. IN your paradigm the only difference between the cashier at McDonalds and the Oncologist is "luck."

To make this statement one has to ignore:
*The rigorous screening process just to get into medical school.

*The years of intensive education required, at a level most people (and I am not excluded) cannot handle.

*The years of internships and other sacrfices made to do so.

wow just wow.

And FYI we're not saying anything related to your education, just your inexperience. Thats ok. With experience becomes crankiness and the desire to keep everyone off your lawn.

It always seems the young, and particularly those who swing in artistic circles who feel that communism would really work... Once most of these people enter the "real" world and have to actually work for their money, they quickly abandon many of these views, and find an ideology that fits closer with actual reality.

This is again, not a knock on education type or level, just that when people are young they can afford to be more ideological.

Or they become professors in college.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:


It always seems the young, and particularly those who swing in artistic circles who feel that communism would really work... Once most of these people enter the "real" world and have to actually work for their money, they quickly abandon many of these views, and find an ideology that fits closer with actual reality.

This is again, not a knock on education type or level, just that when people are young they can afford to be more ideological.

because all those young men that marched to their graves between 1914-1918 weren't lied to by their ideologically polarized elites.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:
It has little to do with fairness. You made the statement that doctors are only doctors and save lives because they are lucky. IN your paradigm the only difference between the cashier at McDonalds and the Oncologist is "luck."

To make this statement one has to ignore:
*The rigorous screening process just to get into medical school.

*The years of intensive education required, at a level most people (and I am not excluded) cannot handle.

*The years of internships and other sacrfices made to do so.

wow just wow.

And FYI we're not saying anything related to your education, just your inexperience. Thats ok. With experience becomes crankiness and the desire to keep everyone off your lawn.

well, there is a luck factor. I know some guys that did all of the above and got pissed on because they had a distinct lack of a penis, and these strange things on their chests called mammary glands, and the small problem that they weren't actually men, but women. When one institution refuses to take you for whatever reason, including a lack of space to accept all candidates, other institutions that catch wind of your lack of acceptance make assumptions and place the equivalent of the mark of death on your file. Then let's not forget that some profs develop a preference for not tolerating anything less than complete devotion and a personality cult, and will opt for arbitrarily flunking certain students for no other reason than they don't like them. Granted, there's usually a way out of these, sometimes it's a long round-about, but some luck is involved in it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 p_gray99 wrote:
Communism does not include everyone having every job in the world. Communism does not include everyone being identical to everyone else. It simply means that everyone is equal to everyone else, and there is no difference in material wealth available to you because of your job.

sauce? You need sauce with this. I agree with this, but only up to a certain point. My own analysis insists on industry department universality. Fire-teams may have designated marksmen, but everyone still learns to shoot.....

I also get the feeling that ever since I told you I'm not at work yet, that somehow in your mind makes me either an idiot or in some way inferior, such that my views automatically count for less (if anything at all). Yes, I haven't been to work. Sure, I've got less experience, but I've also got less bias. Please don't tell me that I'm wrong based on my age, which has nothing to do with whether I'm correct or not.

I'm calling you out on BS there mate. Objectivity is incredibly rare, and damn near non-existent for youth. I still find I have to reel myself in and reevaluate. Bias is integrated into our very beings. To say that you, without any work experience, an incomplete private education, a lack of world experience and access to Wikipedia, have less bias is total BS. You have one of the biggest biases that most people grow out of, which is the view and expectation that the world is as simple as written into high-school textbooks, nevermind that half of the things written into those textbooks can only evade academic quantification as a lie on the merit that what's in them is very, very, very truncated, and very, very, very cursory. You are deluding yourself when you say you have less bias, which only highlights in greater detail your lack of social and political awareness.

EDITED FOR FORMATTING

 poda_t wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:


It always seems the young, and particularly those who swing in artistic circles who feel that communism would really work... Once most of these people enter the "real" world and have to actually work for their money, they quickly abandon many of these views, and find an ideology that fits closer with actual reality.

This is again, not a knock on education type or level, just that when people are young they can afford to be more ideological.

because all those young men that marched to their graves between 1914-1918 weren't lied to by their ideologically polarized elites.

WW1 was a little more complicated than all that. Sure there are plenty of people, some of whom get into positions of great power that continue with their "overly" ideological ways. Hell in some ways, there are some out there who have complete changes in ideology as they progress through life (see Hitler as just one example of changing or gaining ideologies later in life)

 Frazzled wrote:
It has little to do with fairness. You made the statement that doctors are only doctors and save lives because they are lucky. IN your paradigm the only difference between the cashier at McDonalds and the Oncologist is "luck."

To make this statement one has to ignore:
*The rigorous screening process just to get into medical school.

*The years of intensive education required, at a level most people (and I am not excluded) cannot handle.

*The years of internships and other sacrfices made to do so.

wow just wow.

And FYI we're not saying anything related to your education, just your inexperience. Thats ok. With experience becomes crankiness and the desire to keep everyone off your lawn.

Apparently you've completely missed out some of my previous posts.
The rigorous screening process: I'm not an expert on getting into medical school, I believe that this thoroughly checks whether you're intelligent and committed enough to do well as a doctor.
Yes, it's hard to get into medical school. However, intelligence (as I have explained before) is due to luck: Some of it is genes (luck), some of it is being born into a situation where you will let your natural abilities develop correctly (luck), and some of it is being committed (and as I have explained before, willpower is down to luck). You can't say it's all because of you that you're in medical school. You were born with a good enough brain, you were born into a family that would allow you to develop the brain well enough, and you have enough willpower (through nature and nurture) to do well. Luck.

Training: I am well aware that those 7 years are particularly hard, I have a friend who wants to be a doctor. Yup, you definitely need the right mindset and willpower. Oh right, those two as I have explained before aren't as much due to yourself as you might think...

Internships, sacrifices, so on: Yup. Intelligence, willpower, so on.

wow just wow, there's that much luck.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 poda_t wrote:

 p_gray99 wrote:
Communism does not include everyone having every job in the world. Communism does not include everyone being identical to everyone else. It simply means that everyone is equal to everyone else, and there is no difference in material wealth available to you because of your job.

Source? You need source with this. I agree with this, but only up to a certain point. My own analysis insists on industry department universality. Fire-teams may have designated marksmen, but everyone still learns to shoot.....

Uh, burden of proof lies on the person making the claim. I've shown you the wikipedia overall summary of what communism is, it also explains that there are multiple forms of communism and while it may be true you need to do all jobs in one idea of communism, I unfortunately lack (at least partially) the madness necessary to agree with that idea of what communism is.

I also get the feeling that ever since I told you I'm not at work yet, that somehow in your mind makes me either an idiot or in some way inferior, such that my views automatically count for less (if anything at all). Yes, I haven't been to work. Sure, I've got less experience, but I've also got less bias. Please don't tell me that I'm wrong based on my age, which has nothing to do with whether I'm correct or not.

I'm calling you out on BS there mate. Objectivity is incredibly rare, and damn near non-existent for youth. I still find I have to reel myself in and reevaluate. Bias is integrated into our very beings. To say that you, without any work experience, an incomplete private education, a lack of world experience and access to Wikipedia, have less bias is total BS. You have one of the biggest biases that most people grow out of, which is the view and expectation that the world is as simple as written into high-school textbooks, nevermind that half of the things written into those textbooks can only evade academic quantification as a lie on the merit that what's in them is very, very, very truncated, and very, very, very cursory. You are deluding yourself when you say you have less bias, which only highlights in greater detail your lack of social and political awareness.

Oh, I agree I have bias. If anything, bias against communism as I go to a private school, but nobody is free from bias. I'm simply saying that I don't have to deal with the taxman knocking on my door every month and (depending on how you look at it) either taking too much away from me or not taking enough away from those who can afford to give far more.

As for believing that the world is simple, trust me when I say I don't. I can never understand why people do certain things, and TBH I just think "they're doing something illogical, it's what this race appears to default to." All I'm saying is that communism would be better than capitalism if it were possible, which it may well be in the future.

 Frazzled wrote:


DE wussy. Real Men plays demons and cackle at the utter randomness of the utter whims of the chaos god of Dice!

Wrong real men spend all their time drinking,fighting and worshipping corpses that sit on thrones, GO SPACE WOLVES.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Oh, I agree I have bias. If anything, bias against communism as I go to a private school, but nobody is free from bias. I'm simply saying that I don't have to deal with the taxman knocking on my door every month and (depending on how you look at it) either taking too much away from me or not taking enough away from those who can afford to give far more" (as said by p_gray99)(damn my inability to quote after cutting other bits)



Why is no one getting this, if you approach stuff with bias at all then progress starts halting as everything gets stereotyped and placed into columns and thats not good for anyone.

 strybjorn Grimskull wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
DE wussy. Real Men plays demons and cackle at the utter randomness of the utter whims of the chaos god of Dice!

Wrong real men spend all their time drinking,fighting and worshipping corpses that sit on thrones, GO SPACE WOLVES.

Don't forget the barking at lawnmowers and so on

p_gray wrote:Oh, I agree I have bias. If anything, bias against communism as I go to a private school, but nobody is free from bias. I'm simply saying that I don't have to deal with the taxman knocking on my door every month and (depending on how you look at it) either taking too much away from me or not taking enough away from those who can afford to give far more

Why is no one getting this, if you approach stuff with bias at all then progress starts halting as everything gets stereotyped and placed into columns and thats not good for anyone.

And when's the last time anyone ever approached something without bias?
I am, as far as possible, an entirely logical person. Where possible, I ignore what's already thought about a topic and look at the facts, before trying to reach a logical conclusion. In many cases this brings me to a conclusion that the majority disagree with, whether that's because they didn't think about it logically or simply that their mind works in a different way to mine. I'm never free from bias, but I do do everything I can to ignore it and simply look at the facts.