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Orktavius wrote:
pulse bombs are ammo, pulse bomb generator is the weapon.

Pulse bombs are the firing profile of the pulse bomb generator, not a piece of wargear. Same as over-charged shots on ion weapons are part of the firing profile and not wargear.

If you wish to be intentionally obstinate there is nothing I can do for you and you can continue to wallow with your head in the sand by yourself as nothing anyone says will ever dislodge you from your false position that pulse bombs are wargear as opposed to a firing profile.

And yet, you are yet to quote any relevant rules regarding this.

Let's try again:

"...Immediately after the Sun Shark makes a bombing run, roll a D6. On a score of 2+, another pulse bomb is created and the Sun Shark can make another bombing run later in the game. On the roll of a 1, the pulse bomb generator's power fails - no more bombs can be created, and no more bombing runs can therefore be performed." -Tau Codex Pg. 69

Now, show me where it counts as a bomb for the purposes of a bombing run.

Iranna.

pg 66 under pulse bomb. the ammo for said weapon.

At the the back of the codex in reference it is listed as one use only which I'm interpreting as it starts with one

Seeker missiles are one use, but it lists how many vehicles start with.

Nobody is saying that you can't use the bomber, they are just pointing out the typo. It's really simple
RAW- you can't make bombs and it doesn't start with one.
RAI- it starts with one bomb

There's no need to get upset at other people for a GW typo.

Orktavius wrote:
pg 66 under pulse bomb. the ammo for said weapon.

Sorry, I must be missing something - can you quote for me where it says that the Generator is in fact a weapon?

Iranna.

The major issue i have then is:

Who is going to deny a tau player to actually use the bomb?

I dunno why this discussion even exsist to be honest, is it so that every rule lawyer is going to say "no you cant bomb because you dont have one" when you try to do a bombing run?

Its obviously a miswriting or a missed note.

Dracoknight wrote:
The major issue i have then is:

Who is going to deny a tau player to actually use the bomb?

I dunno why this discussion even exsist to be honest, is it so that every rule lawyer is going to say "no you cant bomb because you dont have one" when you try to do a bombing run?

Its obviously a miswriting or a missed note.

No one, I believe, would stop a person from doing so.

The debate is about people not being able to differentiate from RAW and RAI.

Iranna.

Orktavious and Cthulu Spy are right on target regarding Ammo etc. It appears the OP is going to argue his point no matter how many of us explain things logically to him.

Peace out.

Wait, wait, WHOA!!!

Are you telling me, that if you roll a 1 on the d6 bomb generation roll after the first bombing run (Assuming the FAQ corrects it is equipped with a bomb at the beginning), you would lose the weapon for the remainder of the game!!??
Please tell me this isn't true!! (not that i'd ever take the bomber in a million years, but still..)

 Nurgle's Head Cheese wrote:
Orktavious and Cthulu Spy are right on target regarding Ammo etc. It appears the OP is going to argue his point no matter how many of us explain things logically to him.

Peace out.

Actually I (the OP) didnt say much in this thread, someone else has been arguing it. My OP was meant only to point out GW failure, so that people can be aware and check any rulings thier event organizers make on it.

The rules lawyer vs rule maker-uper arguing, has however been amusing.

It's not even a typo.
The Sunshark Bomber has a Pulse Bomb Generator. It doesn't NEED to specifically state that this is carrying a bomb... That's like insisting that Pulse Rifles specifically state that they're carrying ammunition.

HawkWall wrote:
Wait, wait, WHOA!!!

Are you telling me, that if you roll a 1 on the d6 bomb generation roll after the first bombing run (Assuming the FAQ corrects it is equipped with a bomb at the beginning), you would lose the weapon for the remainder of the game!!??
Please tell me this isn't true!! (not that i'd ever take the bomber in a million years, but still..)

Yes, that is correct. You would lose the ability to generate additional bombs. Also, note that the drones that it is equipped with follow the rules for embarked passengers, which means that if the flyer moves more than 6 inches...
The flyer is all sorts of broken. It'll be FAQ'd i'm sure, but for now i would avoid using them in tourneys.

And Nurgles Head Cheese? Iranna isn't the OP. Make sure you know who is posting what before you insult someone. I'm sure cryhavok wouldnt appreciate it, especially since Iranna is right by RAW ruling. Unless you or someone else can find where the generator is referred to as a weapon explicitly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cryhavok wrote:

 Nurgle's Head Cheese wrote:
Orktavious and Cthulu Spy are right on target regarding Ammo etc. It appears the OP is going to argue his point no matter how many of us explain things logically to him.

Peace out.

Actually I (the OP) didnt say much in this thread, someone else has been arguing it. My OP was meant only to point out GW failure, so that people can be aware and check any rulings thier event organizers make on it.

The rules lawyer vs rule maker-uper arguing, has however been amusing.

It's always amusing to watch, no? The rules lawyers state the rules, and then, while calling them cheaters, the "fair and honest" players make up every different interpretation or add-on to "justify" their "honesty" without actually reading the whole, or even part in some cases, of the rules.
Please note i am not directing this at anyone in this thread, it is just a very common occurence i have noted when discussing rules.

This might be helpful:

From the valkyrie entry in the IG codex:

"Wargear:
Multilaser
2 Hellstrike missiles
Searchlight
Extra armor"

The hellstrike missiles, being a one shot weapon similar to a bomb, are listed in the wargear. Bolters are not one shot weapons, so not listing their ammo is irrelevant. If the hellstrike missile was not listed in the wargear, I could not shoot it.

wish i could add more instead of only asking a question... But alas,.. cant find a working PDF yet.

Can you even make a bombing run without a bomb?

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
wish i could add more instead of only asking a question... But alas,.. cant find a working PDF yet.

Can you even make a bombing run without a bomb?

Shhh don't speak of piracy here.

Actually the real question is why are TL Burst Cannons and TL SMS the same cost in the Hammerhead and Skyray profiles?

Is there ANY reason whatsoever to take a TL BC over the TL SMS? Same S, same AP, same amount of shots, both re-roll misses, but the SMS has longer range and ignore cover.

 Archonate wrote:
Actually the real question is why are TL Burst Cannons and TL SMS the same cost in the Hammerhead and Skyray profiles?

Is there ANY reason whatsoever to take a TL BC over the TL SMS? Same S, same AP, same amount of shots, both re-roll misses, but the SMS has longer range and ignore cover.

Yeah, sounds like bad internal balance there. Perhaps we are missing something? Is there some sort of gear that benefits BC in particular?

I mean why stop with it only having one bomb when it starts the game then? Why not play it that it has 50? It's not mentioned anywhere, so why assume it's one in the first place? RAW right now it very much needs to be FAQ'd

You guys, these Pulse bombs are not the same as the single-use missiles. They are fired from a Pulse Bomb GENERATOR.
RAW are that you drop a bomb GENERATED by the Pulse bomb GENERATOR and then test to see if it ran out of power.
The GENERATOR is the device making the attack. Guns don't specify that they have ammo. The bomb generator doesn't need to specify that it has power to start with.

 Archonate wrote:
You guys, these Pulse bombs are not the same as the single-use missiles. They are fired from a Pulse Bomb GENERATOR.
RAW are that you drop a bomb GENERATED by the Pulse bomb GENERATOR and then test to see if it ran out of power.
The GENERATOR is the device making the attack. Guns don't specify that they have ammo. The bomb generator doesn't need to specify that it has power to start with.

This isn't how 40k rules work. There is no set of rules to describe how events happen in the manner you have portrayed them. Bombing runs use bombs, which are pieces of wargear with weapons profiles.

For any model to use a weapon profile, that profile has to be present or added in some way to their unit entry under wargear.

The pulse generator does not 'fire' a bomb. It is not a weapon, as it has no profile. RAW, it is a wargear with a mechanic that adds a pulse bomb to the bomber's wargear.

To do so, you follow its rules. To follow its rules, you must have a pulse bomb and make a bombing run. The make a bombing run with a pulse bomb, you must have a pulse bomb. Nothing in the rules grants the bomber a pulse bomb before this.

The pulse bomb says its a one time use in its profile.

The pulse bomb generator is a support system that has a rule that says AFTER it makes a bombing run it can generate one.

The Tau Bomber does NOT have a pulse bomb(Which is a Ranged Weapon) in its Wargear and therefore does NOT have a bomb to start the game.

As much as i hate to say it Iranna is 100% correct in RAW, HOWEVER! only the biggest douchebags that play this game wont let you make a bombing run with your bomber.

Technically as it stands the bomber is useless and the ONLY thing that you can do is deploy its drones, shoot its missiles and fly the feth away before it dies and gives up a kill point lol


lol i feel like i just got ninja'd

I smell a troll on our hands.

Shouldn't this be in the YMTC forum? It's a rules debate after all, not a tactics one.
RAW I can definatly see the point, there is no bomb listed to make the first attack. I wouldn't enforce this in a game however...

 grendel083 wrote:
Shouldn't this be in the YMTC forum? It's a rules debate after all, not a tactics one.
RAW I can definatly see the point, there is no bomb listed to make the first attack. I wouldn't enforce this in a game however...

Yep--moved to the right forum, thanks.


As an aside, true RAW discussions of this nature (No Terminator armor) tend to escalate---so please try to keep it civil and if you get the point where you feel frustrated, just remember the guys you are debating with are very unlikely to ever be across a table from you--and this is just a discussion. Thanks!

Neronoxx wrote:

Also, note that the drones that it is equipped with follow the rules for embarked passengers, which means that if the flyer moves more than 6 inches...

So, is the last sentence of the second paragraph right hand column on page 48 of the Codex considered fluff or rule? If it is considered fluff then what you said is true, if it is rule and the drones are considered turrets (the specific listing of this in the Sun Sharks write up over rides the general drone write up) then they could and would fire as one of the 4 weapons (per flyer rule page 80 BRB) at the bombers BS.

chrisrawr wrote:

 Archonate wrote:
You guys, these Pulse bombs are not the same as the single-use missiles. They are fired from a Pulse Bomb GENERATOR.
RAW are that you drop a bomb GENERATED by the Pulse bomb GENERATOR and then test to see if it ran out of power.
The GENERATOR is the device making the attack. Guns don't specify that they have ammo. The bomb generator doesn't need to specify that it has power to start with.

This isn't how 40k rules work. There is no set of rules to describe how events happen in the manner you have portrayed them. Bombing runs use bombs, which are pieces of wargear with weapons profiles.

For any model to use a weapon profile, that profile has to be present or added in some way to their unit entry under wargear.

The pulse generator does not 'fire' a bomb. It is not a weapon, as it has no profile. RAW, it is a wargear with a mechanic that adds a pulse bomb to the bomber's wargear.

To do so, you follow its rules. To follow its rules, you must have a pulse bomb and make a bombing run. The make a bombing run with a pulse bomb, you must have a pulse bomb. Nothing in the rules grants the bomber a pulse bomb before this.

The bomb is not in the vehicle's wargear because it is does not exist until the moment of the bombing run.

It is both produced and dropped at the moment of the bombing run.

It is "added to the wargear" right before it is dropped, just as it is in subsequent runs (assuming the 2+ roll succeeded.)

The generator doesn't have a profile because it is not the bomb. This does not mean that its mechanic of producing bombs should be ignored on the first bombing run.

The mechanic of this vehicle is obviously not reconciled in the BRB.

Perhaps my interpretation is based purely on RAI.

 Iranna wrote:

 marv335 wrote:
Seriously, this is right up there with "Terminators don't wear Terminator Armour"

Codex Grey Knights Pg. 91 wrote:
Terminator Squad....
Wargear:
Terminator Armour

The bomber is permitted to make another bomb after it performs a bombing run on a D6 roll of 2+.

This doesn't matter, as it has no bomb with which to make a bombing run in the first place.

Iranna.

Yes, yes GK terminators have Termie armour listed in hteir Wargear. You know who don't? Black Templars.

I was wondering how I missed this thread until I finally noticed it had been pulled from Tactics...

Well you make sure all tau bombers are nerfed in your games as for myself and logic minded people will allow the pidley bomb to be dropped FAQ or not.

Plus ill ask this again , where in the brb is raw/rai described as end all interpretations, by the makers of the game?

Lungpickle wrote:
Well you make sure all tau bombers are nerfed in your games as for myself and logic minded people will allow the pidley bomb to be dropped FAQ or not.

Yeah because there's someone in this thread saying that this is how it should be played.

Plus ill ask this again , where in the brb is raw/rai described as end all interpretations, by the makers of the game?

I have no idea what you're asking here.

Lungpickle wrote:
Well you make sure all tau bombers are nerfed in your games as for myself and logic minded people will allow the pidley bomb to be dropped FAQ or not.

Who says they play this way? Who has ever played vehicles cannot take invuln saves (except in 2 specific instances - Bjorn and DEldar vehicles)? Who has ever played that models without eyes cannot shoot nor charge? This isn't about which is right. RAW it doesn't work. It is that simple. The problem is people arguing RAI against RAW or claiming RAI and not specifying that they are not the written rule.