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Brothererekose wrote:
It looks like an Easter Egg, prolly smells like one, but ...

I interpret the structure of things:

XV8 - pays XX points and gets a TL-PR. 2 hard points. Pays another XX points and gets ... another TL-PR. Last two hard points and both TL-PRs can fire because of the inbuilt Multi-Tracker.

Da-yam. I may have to paint up those unused PR bits.

So far, I have equipped a few XV8s with a TL-BC and a TL-MP.

Humph. A 4 shot Deathrain.

Only the Commander gets the 4 hardpoints, The rest are still only 3, so one Twinlink and one standard on most suits.

barnowl wrote:

Brothererekose wrote:
Humph. A 4 shot Deathrain.

Only the Commander gets the 4 hardpoints, The rest are still only 3, so one Twinlink and one standard on most suits.

Nice catch, missed that.

Ah, being a nooB on a codex again. Hate this.

TLMP/MP suits still get 4 shots - just 2 are twin linked. All for less than half the points cost of an AV12 rifleman dread and far more mobile. I see these configurations becoming popular bar an oppositely ruled FAQ.

Me personally will likely go for a defensive set up:

Missle Pod
Fusion Rifle
Shield Generator

Maybe a bit much on the defense, but i like to be defensive and i can get in range of the melta in case of maps with not much cover and high amount of AP 3.

only annoyance i have about the crisis suits are the "benefits" the bodyguard version gets is rather crappy compaired to the point cost, and i dont really see the advantage of bodyguards than just put in a normal crisis squad of 3. ( unless you want 3 riptides, and pick body guards for your HQ in high point games )

Brothererekose wrote:
It looks like an Easter Egg, prolly smells like one, but ...

I interpret the structure of things:

XV8 - pays XX points and gets a TL-PR. 2 hard points. Pays another XX points and gets ... another TL-PR. Last two hard points and both TL-PRs can fire because of the inbuilt Multi-Tracker.

Da-yam. I may have to paint up those unused PR bits.

So far, I have equipped a few XV8s with a TL-BC and a TL-MP.

Humph. A 4 shot Deathrain.

Only the HQ gets 4 hard points. the rest only get 3 INLCLUDING support systems

Edited for being ninja'd

Now as far as the How many weapos can i put on my suit. I say.......

You can buy them seperately and here is why. Twin-Linked....What is twin linked? a special rule. How is to represented for the Tau? By having 2 weapons purchased in such a way that the special rule of TL takes effect.

Now, where does it say that every time you have 2 of the same weapon its TLed? IT DOESNT. The old dex went out of its way to make sure you knew that you couldnt do what we are debating right now. With the new dex getting the nerfs that it did and the fact that Crisis suits are supposed to be the beesknees, i guarantee that this wont be FAQed because you are meant to be able to grossly customize your suits to any and all purposes.

Thats my 2cents

Wolfnid420 wrote:

You can buy them seperately and here is why. Twin-Linked....What is twin linked? a special rule. How is to represented for the Tau? By having 2 weapons purchased in such a way that the special rule of TL takes effect.

Now, where does it say that every time you have 2 of the same weapon its TLed? IT DOESNT.

Yes it does! Right after it tells you how you buy two of the same weapon in the first place.

Yes the armory specifically says 2 weapons count as a twin linked system.

Really it's a moot argument anyway because twin linking a weapon system for 5 points is ultra efficient.

2 Fusion Blasters on suicide suits might be very beneficial.

For reference, here's the approximate hits of using 1 TL weapon vs 2 non-TL weapons:

BS NON-TL TL 1 0.33 0.305 2 0.66 0.555 3 1.00 0.75 4 1.33 0.888 5 1.66 0.972

Alas, it's probably just an oversight :(

Trasvi wrote:

Alas, it's probably just an oversight :(

It is not an oversight, it is people failing at reading comprehension.

 Crimson wrote:

Wolfnid420 wrote:

You can buy them seperately and here is why. Twin-Linked....What is twin linked? a special rule. How is to represented for the Tau? By having 2 weapons purchased in such a way that the special rule of TL takes effect.

Now, where does it say that every time you have 2 of the same weapon its TLed? IT DOESNT.

Yes it does! Right after it tells you how you buy two of the same weapon in the first place.

No it says what the second price is for. It doesn't say you have to twinlink like the previous codex does. The last codex went out of its way on to say you couldn't. This one doesn't.

Neroman wrote:

No it says what the second price is for.

Indeed. For two weapons.

It doesn't say you have to twinlink like the previous codex does. The last codex went out of its way on to say you couldn't. This one doesn't.

What the last codex did or didn't say is irrelevant. This one tells you how to buy two of the same weapon and what happens once you do. It is pretty clear.

I've been enjoying the heck out of the new codex... and I've had this same question myself.
I've got free minute at work, and a codex in my bag...
My thoughts:
If we buy two of the same weapon, we pay the second cost, and get a TL version. That's what the book says.
What the book doesn't say, is if we can or can not forgo the 5 or 10 point discount on TL and instead pay full price for two singles.
Sure, we can get a TL and a single... but having two singles would open up lots of interesting builds. Good thread, overall. Hooray for discussions!

The way I look at it - 2 singles will result in a higher hit percentage than 1 twin link (math above) but also costs 10 points more (except flamers) per suit. So intended by the codex designers or not, the extra points should balance out the increase in efficiency. That said I still feel it is always worth twin linking at least 1 of the weapons unless the suit needs a target lock.

I had similar thoughts. I think paying double points for an extra single would be well worth it.
Whether or not we'll be allowed to (via RAW) remains to be clarified by an FAQ.
None of my local group seems to have issues with it, but people haven't put it on the table in a tournament setting yet.

There is nothing in the statements about choosing weapons from the ranged weapons list that prevents you from choosing multiple versions of the same weapon. It explicitly describes what the 2 different points costs are for and tells you that a twin linked version of the weapon counts as 2 slots, but it doesn't restrict your choice to only a single instance of any weapon. You could arm your commander suit with 4 plasma rifles if you wished, but it would be a bit redundant as they couldn't all be fired Thinking about it though, 2x twin linked flamers would make a nice counter charge unit, especially with Supporting fire on. Probably a waste of a command suitight be entertaining.

I just looked at it myself. It says "where a weapon has two points costs, the first is for a standard, single version, and the second is for two weapons (counting as a twin linked weapon of that type). A twin linked weapon counts as two choices from this list.

So if you take two weapons of the same type it says right after they count as twin linked. At least that's how I see it.

Getting two of the same weapon always results in a twin-linked version. That's what's printed in the book.

The book doesn't cover what happens when you get a third of the same weapon. So that's probably one twin-linked version and one normal.

Don't know if this has been stated but this is the word for word translation of the unit entry.

"Where a weapon has two points costs, the first is for a standard, single weapon, and the second is for two weapons (Counting as a twin-linked weapon of that type). A twin-linked weapon counts as two choices from this list."

Pretty cut and dry, get two weapons, they count as twin-linked.

As for a commander as the rules look like:

1 Weapon - normal
2 Weapons - Twin-linked
3 Weapons - Twin-linked + normal
4 Weapons - Double Twin-linked

( true for any of the others with only 3 slots aswell )

It doesnt say you have to stop at only 2 weapons, but i think the wording as it is mean that if you buy 2 weapons of the same kind it is Twin-Linked, also that shooting weapons doesnt work the same way as additional weapons in assault and gives you a extra "attack" it rather twin-link it.
( i think two pistols would twin-link in shooting, but give +1 attack in assault for example )

 Celtic Strike wrote:
Don't know if this has been stated but this is the word for word translation of the unit entry.

"Where a weapon has two points costs, the first is for a standard, single weapon, and the second is for two weapons (Counting as a twin-linked weapon of that type). A twin-linked weapon counts as two choices from this list."

Pretty cut and dry, get two weapons, they count as twin-linked.

You're right about it being cut and dry, but wrong about what the answer is. If you purchase two weapons at once they're twin-linked and occupy two slots, but there's no rule that prevents you from picking the same single weapon option twice and getting two separate weapons (other than the higher point cost). All they're doing is making a shorter version of the following:

A crisis suit may take 3-4 options from this list:

* Missile pod ----- 600 points
* TL missile pod (counts as two chocies) ----- 900 points
* Plasma rifle ----- 600 points
* TL plasma rifle (counts as two chocies) ----- 900 points
* Seeker missile ----- 350 points
etc

Peregrine, you are wrong. If you're getting two weapons then you're getting two weapons, and have to use the rules provided.

Dracoknight wrote:
As for a commander as the rules look like:

It doesnt say you have to stop at only 2 weapons, but i think the wording as it is mean that if you buy 2 weapons of the same kind it is Twin-Linked, also that shooting weapons doesnt work the same way as additional weapons in assault and gives you a extra "attack" it rather twin-link it.
( i think two pistols would twin-link in shooting, but give +1 attack in assault for example )

2 Pistols is 2 shot is the shooting Phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:
Peregrine, you are wrong. If you're getting two weapons then you're getting two weapons, and have to use the rules provided.

Problem is he is using the rules provide. 2 single weapons at a higher point cost vs 1 TL weapon at a lower cost.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Celtic Strike wrote:
Don't know if this has been stated but this is the word for word translation of the unit entry.

"Where a weapon has two points costs, the first is for a standard, single weapon, and the second is for two weapons (Counting as a twin-linked weapon of that type). A twin-linked weapon counts as two choices from this list."

Pretty cut and dry, get two weapons, they count as twin-linked.

Very cut and dry if you buy the lower point cost TL weapons. The question is can you get 2 singles at higher point cost, and I don't see anything that prevents it, and you already have permission to get 3(4) weapons from the list.

 Crimson wrote:
Peregrine, you are wrong. If you're getting two weapons then you're getting two weapons, and have to use the rules provided.

But the way the rule is worded it tells you what you get for the different prices. If you pay the first price you get one weapon, if you pay the second price, you get a twin linked weapon taking up 2 slots. It does not prevent you from buying multiple versions of the single weapon price for one model.

I think what people are getting hung up on is the specific clarification text that existed in the last 2 codices isn't present anymore.

This previous text specifically forbade taking more than 2 of the same weapon type, and stated that purchasing 2 of the same weapon systems always counted as 1 TL'd weapon of that type.

The updated text is "similar" to the last editions' text, but differs in that:

1. It doesn't restrict you to only being able to buy 2 weapons of the same type. I believe this is intended with the way the codex entries are written with the "take up to 3 systems from the ranged weapons list and/or the support systems list" wording. A commander with 2 TL'd Plasma Rifles looks like fun!

2. The new "buying 2 of the same weapon counts as TL'd" text can be read ambiguously, whether intended or not. Yes, you can argue that buying 2 of the same always counts as TL'd, but you can also argue that it was a whole lot clearer in the last edition, and the specific clarification about automatic TL'ing is NOT as clear. It just states the cost of a single weapon and its TL'd cost, which takes up 2 spots

I believe they did not intend you to take 2 single weapons of the same type, but it definitely needs attention in the FAQ, simply for the fact that they did not clarify as well as the last editions. That omission alone is puzzling. Why leave anything to chance?

To me, it is a question of auto-Twin Linking, and it needs an FAQ. I will play it like last edition until I hear otherwise from GW

 Peregrine wrote:

 Drunkspleen wrote:
I believe you can take 2 of the same weapon.

The rules as worded don't seem to mandate that whenever you take 2 of the same weapon, you must use the second points cost and count them as twin linked.

This is correct. RAW you can. Whether or not GW changes it when they release a proper FAQ remains to be seen.

Yes, GW likes to change things rather wildly, don't they.

As a general rule, I wait until +1 month on building weapons where I'm running things that may be dodgy (it isn't really, the rules don't explicitly state I Can't simply take two FG, or 4 PG...) - just in case GW calls shenanigans, like they did with everyone who bought 30 Razorbacks and 90 guardsmen and called it a GK army.

 Flinty wrote:

But the way the rule is worded it tells you what you get for the different prices. If you pay the first price you get one weapon, if you pay the second price, you get a twin linked weapon taking up 2 slots. It does not prevent you from buying multiple versions of the single weapon price for one model.

This would be correct if it said that the second price was for twin-linked weapons. It does not. It says it is for two weapons (which count as twin-linked.) Therefore, if you're buying two weapons, this is the option you have to use.

 Crimson wrote:

 Flinty wrote:

But the way the rule is worded it tells you what you get for the different prices. If you pay the first price you get one weapon, if you pay the second price, you get a twin linked weapon taking up 2 slots. It does not prevent you from buying multiple versions of the single weapon price for one model.

This would be correct if it said that the second price was for twin-linked weapons. It does not. It says it is for two weapons (which count as twin-linked.) Therefore, if you're buying two weapons, this is the option you have to use.

No it isn't. It gives you the points cost and what you get for the points cost. There is no instruction or implication that prevents you from buying multiple choices of either the single or the double weapon entry, i.e. there are 2 ways to purchase 2 instances of a weapon; you can pay the twin linked points cost, or you can pay more for 2 of the single version. I'm sure there is a venn diagram fighting to be drawn for this issue

Flinty, that is just wilfully ignoring what the rules say. Do you understand what 'two weapons' mean? Are you buying two weapons?

I don't know if this complicates things or not: Shadowsun has two Fusion Blasters and permission to fire them at separate targets. Certainly a case of two of the same weapon not being Twin-linked.

Homer

She had those last dex too though.