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Imotehk can use his lightning whilst off the board because his entry in the codex only requires him to be in your army. The chrono allows him to reroll stuff if he's in his unit. So if you reserve said combined unit, Imo's lightning still affects the game, but is the reroll affect allowed since the chrono isn't present on the board? I thought the models off board can not impact the game, but I can't find where is says so.

Any page or FAQ reference would be great, thank you.

The Chronometron is not an ability, but a piece of wargear. As such, it cannot have an effect unless it is currently on the table.

 azazel the cat wrote:
The Chronometron is not an ability, but a piece of wargear. As such, it cannot have an effect unless it is currently on the table.

How do I prove that though? I'm not trying to troll, just asking what proof or examples where this applies.

You need proof that a wargear needs to be in play in order to work?! How about proof that wargear can work out of play without specific permission?

what, like this? "Q: If an army contains Imotekh the Stormlord can a Cryptek with a chronometron use it to re- roll the roll to see if the Night Fighting special rule stays in effect? (p85)
A: Only if Imotekh is in the same unit as the Cryptek with the chronometron."

 Neorealist wrote:
what, like this? "Q: If an army contains Imotekh the Stormlord can a Cryptek with a chronometron use it to re- roll the roll to see if the Night Fighting special rule stays in effect? (p85)
A: Only if Imotekh is in the same unit as the Cryptek with the chronometron."

But Imotekh can still be in the Cryptek's unit while in reserve. I don't think this answers the question.
While it does seem to make sense that Wargear can't affect the table if it's not on the table, that's usually because ranges are involved, and you can't measure to/from units in reserve.

Exactly. Imotekh just needs to be in the army to effect the board and can be in reserves and still roll. That and the cryptek explicitly has permission to help him with it if they are in the same unit. Ergo, the Cryptek has permission to do so from reserves.

Neorealist wrote:Exactly. Imotekh just needs to be in the army to effect the board and can be in reserves and still roll. That and the cryptek explicitly has permission to help him with it if they are in the same unit. Ergo, the Cryptek has permission to do so from reserves.

No.

The general rule is: your units cannot use their abilities from reserve.
The specific exception is: Imotekh can.
There is no permission for the Cryptek to do so.

Yes, Imotekh can use Lord of the Storm from reserve. Yes, the Cryptek can give him the ability to re-roll it. But the Cryptek must be on the board in order to use the wargear; therefor Imotekh can only re-roll if he is also on the board (but he can use the ability without the re-rolls from reserve).

It's very easy enough to say 'No', however there is an FAQ entry that specifically says that they can, that you are actually going to want to refute.

Neorealist wrote:It's very easy enough to say 'No', however there is an FAQ entry that specifically says that they can, that you are actually going to want to refute.

Then Please cite it.

The FAQ says you can use the Chrono to re-roll Lord of the Storm.
The FAQ says that Imotekh can use his Lord of the Storm ability while in reserves.
The FAQ does not say that you can use the Chrono while in reserves.

ergo, if you want to use the Chrono to re-roll Lord of the Storm, the Cryptek must be on the table, and in the same unit as Imotekh. As Imotekh can never be in reserves whilst a Cryptek from the same unit is on the table, it is therefore impossible to re-roll Lord of the Storm while in reserve.

 Neorealist wrote:
It's very easy enough to say 'No', however there is an FAQ entry that specifically says that they can, that you are actually going to want to refute.

The FAQ explains that the rolling for "Lord of the Storm" can be rolled for with the Chronometron that actually can only be used during the phases.
Nowhere does it allow the Cryptek to use this while being in reserve.

 Neorealist wrote:
It's very easy enough to say 'No', however there is an FAQ entry that specifically says that they can, that you are actually going to want to refute.

Which is a misuse of the word "specifically", as it very explicitly does NOT mention Reserves, therefore it cannot *specifically* allow you to use it in reserves.

It is easy to say "NO" because there is, as yet, no permission to use it while in Reserves.

 azazel the cat wrote:

Neorealist wrote:Exactly. Imotekh just needs to be in the army to effect the board and can be in reserves and still roll. That and the cryptek explicitly has permission to help him with it if they are in the same unit. Ergo, the Cryptek has permission to do so from reserves.

No.

The general rule is: your units cannot use their abilities from reserve.
The specific exception is: Imotekh can.
There is no permission for the Cryptek to do so.

Yes, Imotekh can use Lord of the Storm from reserve. Yes, the Cryptek can give him the ability to re-roll it. But the Cryptek must be on the board in order to use the wargear; therefor Imotekh can only re-roll if he is also on the board (but he can use the ability without the re-rolls from reserve).

Where is this "general rule" located? Pg. please? I hate Imo and a Cryptek as much as the next guy, but all the evidence looks like this is allowed.

The rulebook is defined as permissive. Find permission to use your rule while in Reserve

 Goat wrote:
Where is this "general rule" located? Pg. please? I hate Imo and a Cryptek as much as the next guy, but all the evidence looks like this is allowed.

Are you claiming that models can use their wargear while being in reserve?
If some piece of Wargear is allowed in the Reserve, it will be mentioned in the rule itself.

The first question would be: Why did they FAQ this for Imotekh?
Answer: Because Imotekh doesn't make it Night Fighting, having him in your army gives you (the player) this extra rule.
But because Imotekh is the origin of this rule, the Chronometron allows you to reroll that D6.

Nothing in that FAQ or in the Codex/BRB allows the Chronometron to be used when it's not in the game.

azazel the cat wrote: Then Please cite it.

ergo, if you want to use the Chrono to re-roll Lord of the Storm, the Cryptek must be on the table, and in the same unit as Imotekh. As Imotekh can never be in reserves whilst a Cryptek from the same unit is on the table, it is therefore impossible to re-roll Lord of the Storm while in reserve.

Certainly, I've done so In my prior post.

1) Can Imotekh use his ability while he is in reserves? (or elsewhere, but that is not relevant to this discussion). Answer - Yes, he just has to have been included in your army list
2) Can the Chrono-tek be used to re-roll The night fighting ability roll? Answer - Yes, as long as the Cryptek is in the same unit as Imotekh.
3) Is the Cryptek in the same unit as imotekh while they are in reserves together? Answer - Presumably, Yes

So there we have it: The Cryptek has permission to be used to re-roll night fighting from reserves.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
The rulebook is defined as permissive. Find permission to use your rule while in Reserve

This, Goat, is I think as close as you can get. Although it won't help you in a rules argument, since the other guy will come back with, " 'Permissive' isn't in the BRB!"

There are some things that are specifically disallowed while off-table: psychic powers, anything with measuring range (shooting, movement, charging, wargear). There are special rules that are allowed while the model is off the table (several Warlord Traits, GK Grand Strategy, Stormlord, etc). But a piece of wargear that does not use range...I didn't see anything in the BRB that makes mention of this. There seems to be a general assumption that, if the model isn't on the table, it can't effect the gameplay. This is reasonable...but then again, some people aren't.

Neo: now find permission to use wargear while in reserve.

Page and para will be sufficient.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Neo: now find permission to use wargear while in reserve.

Page and para will be sufficient.

The model has permission to use wargear.

Find a restriction based on being in reserved.
Page will suffice, I'll find the paragraph.

There is general permission, you need to restrict it.

rigeld2 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Neo: now find permission to use wargear while in reserve.

Page and para will be sufficient.

The model has permission to use wargear.

Find a restriction based on being in reserved.
Page will suffice, I'll find the paragraph.

There is general permission, you need to restrict it.

Eldar Corsairs (IA11) Corsair Prince can make a special shooting attack. One of the "attacks" simply makes it Night Fighting until the player's next turn. So I can use this special attack even if in Reserves?

 Happyjew wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Neo: now find permission to use wargear while in reserve.

Page and para will be sufficient.

The model has permission to use wargear.

Find a restriction based on being in reserved.
Page will suffice, I'll find the paragraph.

There is general permission, you need to restrict it.

Eldar Corsairs (IA11) Corsair Prince can make a special shooting attack. One of the "attacks" simply makes it Night Fighting until the player's next turn. So I can use this special attack even if in Reserves?

It doesn't need a target or anything?

Using actual rules instead of assumptions, yes - that seems correct.
I wouldn't (and don't) play that way, but that has nothing to do with what the rules say.

So solar pulses from reserve?! That's a new one...

copper.talos wrote:
So solar pulses from reserve?! That's a new one...

Actually you can't use the solar pulse from reserve as there is a rule in the book specifically stating that abilities that trigger "at the start of the turn" can not be used on a turn the unit arrived from reserves, which does imply you can't use it or similar abilities while in reserve.

However, the chronometron is able to be in effect every phase, and at any point in the phase. If a unit arrives from reserves, for instance, is that not a D6 roll the unit has made?

Having read the OP's first post a few times though I can't help but think he wants to re-roll the lightning strike roll(s), not the night-fight roll. And with that I must tell the OP that no, you can not use the chronometron to reroll the D6 rolled per unit to see if they're hit by lightning. That roll is not imotekh's. Furthermore, with Imotekh in your army it only need be night fighting for the lightning strikes to happen, it does not need to be "his" night fighting.

Regarding my post, you should turn your sarcasm detector on...

I can think of the veil of darkness as a piece of wargear that can be used as a piece of wargear being used in reserves if that helps any


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh woops nvm there is an faq that allows them to do that

 Kevin949 wrote:

copper.talos wrote:
So solar pulses from reserve?! That's a new one...

Actually you can't use the solar pulse from reserve as there is a rule in the book specifically stating that abilities that trigger "at the start of the turn" can not be used on a turn the unit arrived from reserves, which does imply you can't use it or similar abilities while in reserve.

However, the chronometron is able to be in effect every phase, and at any point in the phase. If a unit arrives from reserves, for instance, is that not a D6 roll the unit has made?

Having read the OP's first post a few times though I can't help but think he wants to re-roll the lightning strike roll(s), not the night-fight roll. And with that I must tell the OP that no, you can not use the chronometron to reroll the D6 rolled per unit to see if they're hit by lightning. That roll is not imotekh's. Furthermore, with Imotekh in your army it only need be night fighting for the lightning strikes to happen, it does not need to be "his" night fighting.

Yes this is what has happened in a recent game for me, the opp wanted to reroll a lightning strike with chrono and Imotekh in reserve. I was fine with the strikes since the book says he just needs to be in the army. But, I wasn't sure the chrono could affect them whilst not on the table. He accepted my argument that wargear has to be on the table. But is it correct?

There are models in play and models out of play. Guess which models' wargear may affect the game.

copper.talos wrote:
There are models in play and models out of play. Guess which models' wargear may affect the game.

Where is wargear defined in the rules? or even stated they may be used in play?

The reserve rules only mention not using rules or abilities that need to be used at the start of the turn. nothing about wargear nor rules and abilities that may be used at other times.

This whole wargear can't be used out of play sounds like some house rule to many people took seriously.

copper.talos wrote:
There are models in play and models out of play. Guess which models' wargear may affect the game.

That makes sense, but then you're also saying that Runes of Warding, Hive Commander, and many other abilities don't work while in Reserves.

And Reserves is out of play? Really? Citation? Nothing in the Reserves rules indicate that.

So when the enemy kills a model and I remove that model from play I can still use its wargear? You are breaking the game a million ways if you accept that models out of play may use wargear.