Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Manchu wrote:


I think it's quite a good thing to point out that this kind of attack is and has been a fact of life elsewhere in the world. We Americans would do well to consider that as the coverage ramps up, not because any American lives lost or disrupted are less valuable for that reason, but because events like these should make us think critically rather than self-righteously.

So you're saying throwing a trillion dollars or so around every time someone does something bad in this country isn't the way to go?
Go back to Russia Manchu!

The Dark Apostle wrote:
Kronk how was I being trollish? I worded my sentence badly, but Manchu corrected me. Think of other countries, and how much they suffer, this morning in Pakistan, 12 people were killed in a very similar incident to that in Boston. In a year today, I won't be seeing a memorial to them will I?

You came accross as saying this isn't a big deal and should feel bad for being shocked becauce these things don't happen here very often. Which is rather offensive and could easily be seen as trolling for a reaction.

 Alfndrate wrote:
How about this:

Here we saw government in two ways perform very well.

Does that make a good point?

No. It makes a superfluous one, and therefore it can't be good.

It also wasn't what Frank was saying.

 Seaward wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
How about this:

Here we saw government in two ways perform very well.

Does that make a good point?

No. It makes a superfluous one, and therefore it can't be good.

It also wasn't what Frank was saying.

It's also probably not having a fight about in this thread, of all places, given the context and all.

 Grey Templar wrote:
You came accross as saying this isn't a big deal and should feel bad for being shocked becauce these things don't happen here very often. Which is rather offensive and could easily be seen as trolling for a reaction.

The original posts didn't read as being polite, nor friendly, to me but its obviously not my call to make.

Well that too but that wasn't the main issue to me.

Massachusetts General Hospital have just had a press conference saying that they are confident that there should be no further loss of life. They praised the surgeons and doctors, including those who had previously served in the military in Iraq and Afghanistan who had experience treating the type of wounds the victims had.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Massachusetts General Hospital have just had a press conference saying that they are confident that there should be no further loss of life. They praised the surgeons and doctors, including those who had previously served in the military in Iraq and Afghanistan who had experience treating the type of wounds the victims had.

This is most excellent news.

Press conference is still ongoing for those interested - http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013-boston-marathon-live-stream/

This whole thing reminds me of 1995 when we were convinced we were looking for Pakistanis in the wake of the Oklahoma city bombings. And of course it turned out to be Tim McVeigh instead because he was mad about Waco. Well, regardless of whether somebody like McVeigh did this, McVeigh's ideas did not die with him. Here we have a bombing on tax day, a.k.a., "Patriot's Day" where the bombing took place. There is a very strong and open anti-government rhetoric in this country and I think part of the reason we Americans are so cavalier about our rhetoric is we don't pay much attention to other countries where that rhetoric more frequently turns into violence.

It seemed to me his post was neither polite nor friendly, but was under no obligation to do so. He pointed out (Quite accurately) that Americans are getting upset over the deaths of innocents while similar occurrences both before and since the marathon get almost no media coverage.

Frankly, I find it somewhat offensive that you all are getting upset at him for simply pointing out that had this occurred in Senegal or Palestine instead of within the US itself, there likely would have shrugged shoulders and mumbled dismissals all around when at the watercooler the next day. Loss of life is tragic regardless of circumstance, and being upset that someone pointed out the arguably callous nature of ignoring tragedies outside your own border is just petty.

EDIT: The news about the casualties is heartening. I noticed the sheer volume of people delivering first aid, and fairly quickly as well, and I suspect this will also come to light as also being a major reason why there was no further loss of life despite the numerous horrendous injuries.

 Frazzled wrote:

The Dark Apostle wrote:
From what I've seen they offer little,
A few days ago a house was invaded by the IRA, a man was tied down and shot infront of his families, America has been silent.
I have alot of anger towards America on numerous things and I'm sorry for putting my anger out like this, I'll delete the comment.

I'm trying to understand why you you're angry at the US for it. The US has nothing to do with the IRA, or Ireland for that matter. Indeed, until a discussion on this board a few weeks ago, I didn't even know the IRA still existed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

The Dark Apostle wrote:
That's a good idea, I think I should make a thread showing all the trouble that goes on in the world that you SHOULD be hearing..... Thank you

Make one. I'll troll it like you're trolling this one mayhaps. .

"A bomb went off in Ireland?

Big deal, we have our own problems!":

Someone would say, if they were a complete and utter gak heap.

 darkPrince010 wrote:
It seemed to me his post was neither polite nor friendly, but was under no obligation to do so. He pointed out (Quite accurately) that Americans are getting upset over the deaths of innocents while similar occurrences both before and since the marathon get almost no media coverage.

Frankly, I find it somewhat offensive that you all are getting upset at him for simply pointing out that had this occurred in Senegal or Palestine instead of within the US itself, there likely would have shrugged shoulders and mumbled dismissals all around when at the watercooler the next day. Loss of life is tragic regardless of circumstance, and being upset that someone pointed out the arguably callous nature of ignoring tragedies outside your own border is just petty.

Petty, eh? That's pretty ironic from someone defending statements of an arguably callous nature.

 Manchu wrote:
This whole thing reminds me of 1995 when we were convinced we were looking for Pakistanis in the wake of the Oklahoma city bombings. And of course it turned out to be Tim McVeigh instead because he was mad about Waco.

Going with a subtle racist angle now?

Saints preserve us.

Monster Rain wrote:
Petty, eh? That's pretty ironic.

I'd say someone who legitimately says....

Monster Rain wrote:
"A bomb went off in Ireland?

Big deal, we have our own problems!":

...is being petty.

EDIT: And I would agree with your assessment of that person being a gak heap.

Simply edited this to show I wasn't trying to imply you actually meant this, just that it was odd you would not find that being petty, despite having said in your own post that is seemed gakky.

 Manchu wrote:
This whole thing reminds me of 1995 when we were convinced we were looking for Pakistanis in the wake of the Oklahoma city bombings. And of course it turned out to be Tim McVeigh instead because he was mad about Waco. Well, regardless of whether somebody like McVeigh did this, McVeigh's ideas did not die with him. Here we have a bombing on tax day, a.k.a., "Patriot's Day" where the bombing took place. There is a very strong and open anti-government rhetoric in this country and I think part of the reason we Americans are so cavalier about our rhetoric is we don't pay much attention to other countries where that rhetoric more frequently turns into violence.

Maybe we should wait until more details get released instead of trying to pin point blame just yet. The police, FBI and other federal authorities are still investigating and have not said who is responsible yet.

The police have confirmed though that the Saudi national that they spoke with yesterday is "not considered a suspect"

That's not basically a paraphrase of what the person you're defending said?

Sorry, you ninja'd me. I was referring to the gentleman above you.

 Monster Rain wrote:
That's not basically a paraphrase of what the person you're defending said?

The quote? No that's a direct quote from the police as reported on the news through the link I provided above. I can see were that may have caused confusion, apologies I should have been clearer.

Well which do you expect someone to pay more attention to?

Something that happened in their country just now effecting a major international event or something in a tiny country accross the ocean thats been having little spats over the past century.

 Manchu wrote:
This whole thing reminds me of 1995 when we were convinced we were looking for Pakistanis in the wake of the Oklahoma city bombings. And of course it turned out to be Tim McVeigh instead because he was mad about Waco. Well, regardless of whether somebody like McVeigh did this, McVeigh's ideas did not die with him. Here we have a bombing on tax day, a.k.a., "Patriot's Day" where the bombing took place. There is a very strong and open anti-government rhetoric in this country and I think part of the reason we Americans are so cavalier about our rhetoric is we don't pay much attention to other countries where that rhetoric more frequently turns into violence.

Well thats certainly stirring the pot. I'm sure nothing bad will happen now...

 Monster Rain wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
This whole thing reminds me of 1995 when we were convinced we were looking for Pakistanis in the wake of the Oklahoma city bombings. And of course it turned out to be Tim McVeigh instead because he was mad about Waco.

Going with a subtle racist angle now?

Er, no? I don't think McVeigh was a racist -- or at least, he explicitly disavowed racism. I don't think these Boston attacks had anything to do with racism, either. My point is, people in countries where these attacks are more frequent don't have to look far overseas to find the culprits. They are more aware of the violent unrest at home than Americans seem to be. We have a tendency to dismiss public violence as either international terror or mental illness. McVeigh is a good example of how such assumptions can be dead wrong. This attack, undertaken on tax day and entailing crude, small bombs, fits the domestic terror profile from what I've heard on the news.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Well which do you expect someone to pay more attention to?

Something that happened in their country just now effecting a major international event or something in a tiny country accross the ocean thats been having little spats over the past century.

I am saddened by how little you apparently care about loss of life in other countries. Your attention isn't a zero-sum game; You can care about events in other countries as well as your own, and no-one is stopping you from being upset at both tragedies equally.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
This whole thing reminds me of 1995 when we were convinced we were looking for Pakistanis in the wake of the Oklahoma city bombings. And of course it turned out to be Tim McVeigh instead because he was mad about Waco. Well, regardless of whether somebody like McVeigh did this, McVeigh's ideas did not die with him. Here we have a bombing on tax day, a.k.a., "Patriot's Day" where the bombing took place. There is a very strong and open anti-government rhetoric in this country and I think part of the reason we Americans are so cavalier about our rhetoric is we don't pay much attention to other countries where that rhetoric more frequently turns into violence.

Well thats certainly stirring the pot.

And yet, also accurate.

Yeah, there are plenty of better targets for a racially motivated terrorist.

Thats also kinda why I'm not sure about the anti-government terrorist angle. You think an anti-government terrorist would blow up a public building like a courthouse or IRS office, not a sporting event.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yeah, there are plenty of better targets for a racially motivated terrorist.

Thats also kinda why I'm not sure about the anti-government terrorist angle. You think an anti-government terrorist would blow up a public building like a courthouse or IRS office, not a sporting event.

Exactly. Home grown (aka nonIslamic) will go after government, the opposing party, or some focal point.
Jihadi - anything that kills the most people in the most public manner.

Could be a serial killer type as well, but more doubtful. Pulling off delivery of multiple bombs takes more effort. has happened before though, and with more fatalities.

 darkPrince010 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Well which do you expect someone to pay more attention to?

Something that happened in their country just now effecting a major international event or something in a tiny country accross the ocean thats been having little spats over the past century.

I am saddened by how little you apparently care about loss of life in other countries. Your attention isn't a zero-sum game; You can care about events in other countries as well as your own, and no-one is stopping you from being upset at both tragedies equally.

I like how you assume I don't care about other countries.

I'm just saying its perfectly natural to care more about what happened in your country than whats happening elsewhere and thats its wrong of you to belittle someone for thinking that.

I didn't say that whats happening elsewhere doesn't matter and that I don't care. I do, I just care more about Americans. No, it isn't zero sum. Its more like 95-5, I care 95% about America and 5% about the rest of the world at this point in time.

 darkPrince010 wrote:
Frankly, I find it somewhat offensive that you all are getting upset at him for simply pointing out that had this occurred in Senegal or Palestine

That's not at all what his first post said and that's the post I reported. Don't paint people with such broad brushes or jump to conclusions and you'll be fine.


The topic here is the tragedy in Boston, the news that is coming out, and the response of the first aid personnel to the victims and the response of the investigators to the perpetrators.

I find the "What about [INSERT COUNTRY]?" posts to be seriously off-topic. But hey, what do I know?

My questioning of DA's post was simply because it confused me. He explained himself, all's good.

I do agree that people should stop jumping on him about it.

 kronk wrote:

I find the "What about [INSERT COUNTRY]?" posts to be seriously off-topic. But hey, what do I know?

Especially when it's so easy to make your own threads about issues that matter to you, so you can inform others and hold a discussion.

Grey Templar, it is natural to care more about your own country, but to show an almost blatant disregard for the happenings in many is bad.

 kronk wrote:
The topic here is the tragedy in Boston, the news that is coming out, and the response of the first aid personnel to the victims and the response of the investigators to the perpetrators.

I find the "What about [INSERT COUNTRY]?" posts to be seriously off-topic. But hey, what do I know?

Pretty much. I don't understand the what-about-ery either, or the need to bring it up here instead of another thread.

The Dark Apostle wrote:
Grey Templar, it is natural to care more about your own country, but to show an almost blatant disregard for the happenings in many is bad.

Are there deals on shovels going on or something?