Explosion reported near Boston Marathon

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**timetowaste85**

MGS said it better than anyone else could or has already. Exalted for a brilliantly spoken post, friend.

**Ma55ter_fett**

d-usa wrote:
I don't think that Manchu's statement has anything to do with racism, he just rightly points out that during events like that we usually assume that somebody did this to us, instead of us doing it to ourselves.

Hence the reason why everybody jumps on the "this looks like AQ" bandwagon, or the reason why everybody reported "the police are talking to a Saudi national". There was an interestic statistic in the news today that the majority of bomb plots stopped since 9/11 have been orchestrated by domestic groups, with Jihadist groups coming in second. But who do we suspect first?

Let me give you my first hand experience in this:

In 2002 I was going through nursing school, and during my clinical rotation in the ICU I was taking care of a native american patient who would only speak his native language. He grew up speaking the language of his tribe but he could speak perfect English prior to his accident. When I asked about that the doctors told me that sometimes, during traumatic incidents such at that, a person can revert back to his first language.

About a month later my school, together with another university, participated in a mass-casualty drill & terrorist attack drill. The scenario was that evil terrorists caused an accident on the interstate, wrecked a tractor trailer filled with anhydrous ammonia that was contaminating the scene, and that there was a secondary explosive in the trunk of one of the vehicles next to our wrecked school bus, there were no terrorists on scene. All the agencies (Fire Departments, Highway Patrol, local sheriff) knew was that it was an accident that was suspicious with lots of victims.

I was a victim with a broken leg and arm hanging halfway out of the school bus and also had a camera with me to take pictures for the student paper. When the firefighters got to me I spoke only German to them (remembering the native american guy) since that could very well be a real thing that I would be doing in a situation like that. Not knowing what I was saying the firefighter moved on to the next victim. Within a few minutes more firefighters came by, placed me on a backboard, strapped me down, and left me there. Over the radios I could hear that they said that they had the suspected terrorist and before I knew it the bomb disposal robot was going through my camera bag.

The agency failed their test because once they got to the foreign guy they thought that they had the non-existing terrorist and they quit securing the scene and they never did find the bomb in the car.

So my personal experience is that the "foreign bad guys did this until proven otherwise" mindset can exist.

Thats really quite interesting.

I know I heard that the saudi national was running from the scene and then caught by a citizen before getting handed over to police.

Let me say that if I was a saudi national and a bomb went off near me, I'd run. Because I'm be pretty sure that if I stuck around I'd get the gak kicked out of me for looking like a terrorist.

**Breotan**

What stopped me from jumping on the "it's dem damned ferenurs" bandwagon is the fact that nobody has taken credit for this. Normally when Islamist terrorists do something along these lines, they shout it far and wide. This would be a huge badge of honor for them yet there is nothing. In fact, none of the "usual suspects" or even groups on the periphery have stepped up, flag in hand. That makes me think it is home brewed and/or a partisan of some sort who holds an ideology but doesn't actually take orders from a larger group. Examples would include McVey and Nidal Hasan.

**Experiment 626**

Breotan wrote:
What stopped me from jumping on the "it's dem damned ferenurs" bandwagon is the fact that nobody has taken credit for this. Normally when Islamist terrorists do something along these lines, they shout it far and wide. This would be a huge badge of pride for them yet there is nothing. In fact, none of the "usual suspects" or groups on the periphery have stepped up, flag in hand. That makes me think it is home brewed and/or a partisan of some sort who holds an ideology but doesn't actually take orders from a larger group. Examples would include McVey and Nidal Hasan.

On the other hand, it's likely not a 'good idea' for an outside terror group to claim responsibility until they've at least gone and dug themselves into a very deep hole hidden away in some buttcrack corner of the world...
I mean, if it was you, would you seriously consider telling the US, the country that spent 10 years blowing up parts of multiple countries to capture/kill the dude who toppled the WTC, "I did it - mwah hahahaha!" BEFORE you'd squireled yourself away into some deep dark abyss?!

Days to weeks or more can typically go by without a claim of responsiblity being made, and after learning their lesson about how far the US or other western states will go to track down and apprehend the guilty parties, we might not even get an 'official' claim.
The US does have an epic history of nabing the cowards who perpetrate such terrible acts on their soil afterall.

**d-usa**

Experiment 626 wrote:
Breotan wrote:
What stopped me from jumping on the "it's dem damned ferenurs" bandwagon is the fact that nobody has taken credit for this. Normally when Islamist terrorists do something along these lines, they shout it far and wide. This would be a huge badge of pride for them yet there is nothing. In fact, none of the "usual suspects" or groups on the periphery have stepped up, flag in hand. That makes me think it is home brewed and/or a partisan of some sort who holds an ideology but doesn't actually take orders from a larger group. Examples would include McVey and Nidal Hasan.

On the other hand, it's likely not a 'good idea' for an outside terror group to claim responsibility until they've at least gone and dug themselves into a very deep hole hidden away in some buttcrack corner of the world...
I mean, if it was you, would you seriously consider telling the US, the country that spent 10 years blowing up parts of multiple countries to capture/kill the dude who toppled the WTC, "I did it - mwah hahahaha!" BEFORE you'd squireled yourself away into some deep dark abyss?!

Days to weeks or more can typically go by without a claim of responsiblity being made, and after learning their lesson about how far the US or other western states will go to track down and apprehend the guilty parties, we might not even get an 'official' claim.
The US does have an epic history of nabing the cowards who perpetrate such terrible acts on their soil afterall.

If somebody foreign was involved in this, then it was very well planned and a long time coming. If they haven't dug themselves a hiding hole during all this planing and before they carried it out then they would be pretty dumb.

**Dreadclaw69**

d-usa wrote:
I don't think that Manchu's statement has anything to do with racism, he just rightly points out that during events like that we usually assume that somebody did this to us, instead of us doing it to ourselves.

Hence the reason why everybody jumps on the "this looks like AQ" bandwagon, or the reason why everybody reported "the police are talking to a Saudi national". There was an interestic statistic in the news today that the majority of bomb plots stopped since 9/11 have been orchestrated by domestic groups, with Jihadist groups coming in second. But who do we suspect first?

The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Name five large terrorist attacks on the US or its citizens - I'm willing to bet that Sept 11th and its horrors are pretty close to, if not, the top. That was the worst nightmare for many people, so rightly or wrongly, its a natural reaction to ask if this is happening again.

In a lot of cases in both Iraq and Afghanistan the use of multiple simultaneous explosions was a hallmark of AQ, especially in market places and other soft civilian targets (Madrid, 7/7 bombings etc.). So going by a well known MO isn't pointing the fingers at "an other" or racism, its what the facts supported at that time.

Now that being said (and throughout I have not pointed the blame at any one source, merely highlighted possible groups) AQ and its affiliate groups are often very quick to claim responsibility. The fact that this has not been done some 24+ hours later, that there does not appear to have been a suicide bomber, and the timing of the attack on Patriot's Day could reasonably show that it is not an attack by AQ and its affiliates.

**darkPrince010**

Popped up a new thread asking how and why people grieve more or less for people of their own nation or others, among other questions.

Figured it would be better than clogging up this thread with more discussion on it.

**Dreadclaw69**

Experiment 626 wrote:
On the other hand, it's likely not a 'good idea' for an outside terror group to claim responsibility until they've at least gone and dug themselves into a very deep hole hidden away in some buttcrack corner of the world...
I mean, if it was you, would you seriously consider telling the US, the country that spent 10 years blowing up parts of multiple countries to capture/kill the dude who toppled the WTC, "I did it - mwah hahahaha!" BEFORE you'd squireled yourself away into some deep dark abyss?!

And as Seal Team Six showed, it doesn't matter where you are, or how deep you think is safe - you will be found

**CptJake**

Actually, it can take up to 72 hours for groups to claim responsibility, if they ever do.

If this was the first of multiple planned attacks a group (foreign or domestic) could be waiting for the other attack(s) before taking responsibility (if they ever do).

**Ratbarf**

kronk wrote:
I don't know if this is foreign or domestic, so I'm not speculating on either. IF they used cell phones to detonate the bombs... well, I don't know how difficult that technology is to pull off. TV and movies =/= real life.

Maybe 5 guys in the US could do that by pooling resources, or maybe it takes REAL money, perhaps from oversees.

I don't know, either way. My knee-jerk reaction from last night's report that a Saudi man was being interviewed and people piling on Facebook that it was a foreigner was to think of Richard Jewell and people jumping to conclusions. This isn't our first rodeo. Let's see how things develop before pointing blame and attacking someone at Kroger's because they "look foreign" (re: people post 911 attacking foreigners).

I did it out of curiosity with an old phone of mine. Took about 10-20 minutes once I had everything in one place, and a little over an hour to find the stuff. Though my dad does have a set of those weird screwdrivers they use for electronics so that made it easier. You wouldn't want to hook it up until your on site though, as the hammer can move if jostled enough.

Edited by Mannahnin. Please don't.

**CptJake**

Sec Napolitano says there is no indication this is part of a broader plot: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/16/us-usa-explosions-napolitano-idUSBRE93F13X20130416

Of course, since who ever pulled this off seemingly did so without setting any indications/warnings of a specific threat, I have no faith that Sec Napolitano is correct. I hope she is.

**thehod**

Lets first care for the wounded and grieve the dead.

Before we point fingers lets get to the bottom of this and not make any conclusions yet.

But when we do find out who did this (and we will), then you make them pay for their crimes against humanity.

**whembly**

Whoa... package identified prior to exlosion?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even after the horror and tragedies they have seen in their country…This is humanity.

**Grey Templar**

whembly wrote:
Whoa... package identified prior to exlosion?

That must be the second bomb, the first explosion clearly came from right next to the buildings not on the street.

Finally a photo of the second bomb site, all the news has been showing till this has been the first explosion.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even after the horror and tragedies they have seen in their country…This is humanity.

Now thats sweet.

I just got 1000 Faith in Humanity points back.

**Lone Cat**

Whoever behinds this terrorism wants Third world war!
Kim Jong Un said nothing about it. the N. Korea might be well benind the attacks. If this is true, I don't think he was using Korean spy, he's using Russian gangs to do this.

**Grey Templar**

If this is all the Nkoreans could manage after the last couple weeks of hot air they may be less of a threat than I thought.

I doubt they were behind it, I would think they could at least have managed to get some military grade explosives into the bombs.

And if they did do it I'm sure they'd be blasting it all over the TV within minutes of the event to get maximum effect.

**Norn King**

It wouldnt really help N. Korea's cause, i doubt they are behind it.

**Grey Templar**

Well, I wouldn't put acts of terror beyond them. They just as crazy as most Terror organizations. Its just they'd probably have managed something bigger.

**Norn King**

TBH, i dont think N.K. would have it in them.

**Eggs**

I think the picture of the kids from Iraq, beside the picture of the child that died in the bombing holding up the peace message should be shown to every adult that holds a position of power whatsoever. If that doesn't move people, then I fear they are beyond help.

**KalashnikovMarine**

Another Exalt for MGS, well said.

**CptJake**

Norn King wrote:
TBH, i dont think N.K. would have it in them.

The families of the passengers of KAL 858 disagree.

**Lone Cat**

One thing is certain. one of Al Quaeda's goons in Jordan praise the prepetators, claimed the blast is a "Just Cause"

yet they deny any responsibilities to the incident.
They might do it, or another organizations incorporated into the Al Quaeda itself.

So is terrorism an act against 'Imperialsm' or 'Colonialism' done by many western powers?

**Steve steveson**

Lone Cat wrote:
One thing is certain. one of Al Quaeda's goons in Jordan praise the prepetators, claimed the blast is a "Just Cause"

It would make that statement hilarious if it was a US right wing extremist group.

Lone Cat wrote:

yet they deny any responsibilities to the incident.
They might do it, or another organizations incorporated into the Al Quaeda itself.

So is terrorism an act against 'Imperialsm' or 'Colonialism' done by many western powers?

Terrorism is any act designed to spread terror. Normaly by a small group against a nation. Nation against nation is normaly catagorised as an act of war rather than terror.

It is most certainly "not an act against 'Imperialsm' or 'Colonialism'". See Sri Lanka Buddhist extremists, The East Turkestan independence movement and many others. Terrorism exists all over the world.

We just have to hope they find out who did this and that they can be brought to justice.

**Dreadclaw69**

Steve steveson wrote:
It would make that statement hilarious if it was a US right wing extremist group.

Hilarious isn't the word I would use to describe that, especially with three people dead and upwards of 170 injured. There may be a bitter irony in two opposing hateful groups with differing ideologies sharing an opinion on the events, but to say that its hilarious is just crass.

**Lone Cat**

^ So did 'American Fascist factions' really join the party too? and why? any reasons to make their cause valid?

**djones520**

Lone Cat wrote:
^ So did 'American Fascist factions' really join the party too? and why? any reasons to make their cause valid?

No one knows if they did. It seems no one knows anything more then what caused the explosion right now.

**Gorskar.da.Lost**

djones520 wrote:
Lone Cat wrote:
^ So did 'American Fascist factions' really join the party too? and why? any reasons to make their cause valid?

No one knows if they did. It seems no one knows anything more then what caused the explosion right now.

Basically this. Anything other than that is just idle speculation right now.

**BaronIveagh**

I'll toss my speculation in the ring:

The symbolism and what little we know about the devices show them to be most likely domestic. A pressure cooker was used as the bomb casing, based on the smell described by the witnesses and the large amount of white smoke the explosive was most likely black powder with potassium or sodium chlorate as potential alternatives (both tend to contain a certain amount of sulfur).

The simplest version of this would be a few cans of ffg places in a pressure cooker (trying for better compression with the black powder) that was then filled with ball bearings and some type of remote detonator (cell maybe?) or a timer.

The reason that there are so many reported flash burns is that the pressure cooker made a poor casing and failed too quickly, flinging about 1/3 to 1/2 of the explosive into the air before it could fully ignite. This actually reduced the overall effectiveness of the bombs.

**CptJake**

And I'll go the other route.

The types of devices, the spacing and timing are very similar to what we have seen in Afghanistan and places where AQ and their ilk are active. Add in that Inspire published a 'how to' for these types of devices and I would guess an AQ type, or influenced by AQ.

Add in the target selection is much more in line with AQ types vice typical anti government types. (Again, even Inspire urges targeting sporting events and the like).

Bottom line is, we don't know yet.