Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, I wanted to pose a little question for you guys. I know that in 5th edition when vehicles were all the rage and there were no flyers that AV13 spam for Necrons was a really strong build (from what I can tell), but the question I have is how successful is it in 6th for everyone? Especially now that it is rarer to get access to strength 10 guns with broadsides no longer having access to strength 10 railguns. It seems like with everyone switching to infantry lists that we'd have more success with AV13 spam than we used to. People are skimping on anti-tank weapons in preference for tons of strength 7 shooting to deal with flyers and force saves on terminators, but these same weapons are weapons that our 3-4 hull point vehicles merely laugh off. It seems to me that out of all the codexes, Necron vehicles have transitioned the best just because of their durability and the fact we can bring so many. Good luck taking out all of our ghost arks before we unload onto your objective, or taking out our annihilation barges before they start reeking havoc to your now footslogging troops. So, I think that it's still pretty strong, strong enough I've debated on running at the least 3 arks, and 3 barges minimum in a 1750 point list, but what do you guys think? How do you prefer to run your crons? How successful have you been?

I always take a Ghost Ark and 2 Anni barges in ALL my lists. IMHO they are too useful NOT to take.

Hoping to buy a new Anni Barge at some point.

I usually run just 3 annibarges (+ 2 night scythes) in my wraithwing list, but I'm actually taking a mechanized list to tournament this week, since I'm a bit bored with the wraiths. The list contains all necron vehicles I have (exept a monolith), 2 command barges, 2 ghost arks, 3 annibarges and a triarch stalker. Plus 2 night scythes. Everything is in those vehicles, 4 lanceteks in arks, no other crypteks.

I'll comment more on the viability after the tournament if I remember to. =)

I've been running the following in preparation for an upcoming tournament at 1850.

3 Arks - 5 war in each
3 Night scythes - 5 war in each
3 AB's

5 wraiths

2 DLords

I find it very effective and a fun build to run. Lords can go in Arks and be hidden until needed where they can jump out alone or with the squad. I usually deep strike the wraiths which throws everyone off. The great thing about the list is that at first the massive amount of anti infantry weapons that most lists bring have no targets. And when they finally pop an ark it is to shoot down 5 warriors which are expendable. The main problem here is if you opponent focuses on the barges the arks and lords get them, if the go after the arks it's the scythes and barges that get them and so on.

I find av13 still very strong in 6th. With the jink saves and cover saves you prevent a lot of damage to your vehicles. Ghost arks having 4 hull points makes them extremely tough against strength 7 shots.

@Cpt Stubbs unless I'm reading something wrong destroyer lords cannot ride in a ghost ark. The rule entry is a litte vague by saying warriors, overlords, lords and crypteks. How one interprets lord would obviously make a difference.

I dont think they can as they are Jump Infantry.

I find the proliferation of cheap, twin-linked lascannons and First Blood to be highly detrimental to Necron open-topped vehicles.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
I find the proliferation of cheap, twin-linked lascannons and First Blood to be highly detrimental to Necron open-topped vehicles.

Ding.
This is what I've had happen quite a bit lately. It's simply too easy to blow them up with a LasCannon for the most part - particularly with open topped giving another +1 - that's roughly over a 50% chance of it blowing up on a successful pen. That said - I've still had good success with running 3x A. Barges alas I've sold all my other AV13 vehicles as they were just too big and unwieldy. I'm personally not a big fan of Triarch Stalkers and the Ghost Arks, while not too bad - have a big ol' model that I just hated to use. I think in 6'th my equivalent is just A. Barges and Night Scythes - cheap vehicles that are decently hard to hit and all field TL Tesla Destructors which spells doom for any light-medium vehicles your enemy may have.

I think it is a very viable build. In the competitive scene, I mostly see people bring anti-infantry and weapons with a higher rate of fire. I think a proper AV13 list would do really well.

MLKTH-please do report back on that, I'm very much interested in how successful that'll be! Especially since I've been deeply considering running a similar list, but I need to justify dropping the money to buy two more barges.

In my experience, the only heavy weapon that's ever given me problem are railguns (and of course meltas, but what vehicle doesn't have a problem with those) those have been the only reliable thing that has ever cracked my arks or barges. Even then with jink, I've found I've that our vehicles have been very durable. That doesn't mean the occasional lascannon or lance does not blow up one, but it's really hard (I play against shooty Dark Eldar almost every week too). Honestly, you still have to roll a 5 or 6 with a lascannon or lance to do any lasting damage to our vehicles just because our vehicles have so many hull points. I don't know, I just feel that with everyone rolling around in flyers and foot lists/hiding behind ADL more worried about anti-flyer that our vehicles should do very well. The only flyer that really comes to mind that is honestly spammable enough to give our lists trouble are vendettas (I suppose you can count stormravens, and to some extent storm talons but if someone is bringing 3 of each, vastly more expensive flyers than ours, welp, there's not going to be a lot on the ground), but I still feel that option only really exists in tailored lists rather than TACS.

Watch out for the new, ultra-fast daemons! They are a bad matchup for necron AV13-spam. Daemon FMC-spam will be murder on this type of list.

 jy2 wrote:
Watch out for the new, ultra-fast daemons! They are a bad matchup for necron AV13-spam. Daemon FMC-spam will be murder on this type of list.

They can cause quite a few grounding checks and the ability to move 12" and snapfire is nice. Though I would mostly agree that it is a tough matchup. If the Cron player brought 2 CCBs with MSS/Scythe Overlords those could be quite useful vs big MCs.

Afraid I'm not familiar with Daemons. Never had the chance to play against them. What makes them so strong against an armor wall? Can they take more than 2 flying monstrous creatures? Thought that'd only be reserved for Tyranids or Chaos?

KelCJ wrote:
Afraid I'm not familiar with Daemons. Never had the chance to play against them. What makes them so strong against an armor wall? Can they take more than 2 flying monstrous creatures? Thought that'd only be reserved for Tyranids or Chaos?

They can take 5 FMC's...and that's not including allied CSM. They're a very, very fast army that can wreck those AV13 vehicles on Turn 2.

My mechanized Necrons have been doing better in 6th then they were in 5th.

When I want a stronger list I bring my 3 ghost arks, 3 anni barges, and 2 scythes along with one wing of wraiths for counter charge. The stalker is OK, but hard to fit in 2 with wraiths as well. The chariots are still hard to kill until they get in melee range, but they are good for killing other vehicles.

Fast melta is what scares me, and there has been much less since 6th started.

My 1500 list which included 5 AV 13 vehicles (and tomb blades for fun) lost a single game in a six week campaign and then didn't lose in a small tourney last week.

Holy...well the idea of 5 FMC seems like an awesome idea, almost makes me want to run Daemons! Maybe I'll take a look at them next time I'm at my FLGS...

Trozen, I love hearing that, especially since we're in a time where people think vehicles are so weak. I suppose while we're on the topic of mechanized Necrons, how well do two CCBs do without any kind of wraith support. I've read a lot of Mercer's battle reports and he runs what I think is a very strong list of mech Necrons with a little wraith support. His CCBs always seem to do well and it makes me wonder if this somehow isn't because of wraith support. There's so much focus fire on those hammer units that it does allow for the CCBs to go relatively unscathed. My typical tournaments are 1750 points, and I've found I can't fit the wraiths in, only the two barges. Although everything in my army then has 8 AV13 vehicles with a single scythe for support, I wonder if it would still be as successful.

Also, has anyone had any success with triple ark and triple DDA lists? Madly expensive I know, but I'm still curious if this can work.

Well, I'm guessing that Necron AV 13 spam >>>> than BA AV 13 spam, and BA AV 13 spam still is *decent*, so I'm guessing, yeah it's good.

KelCJ, CCBs can be used nowadays, but they are not very cost efficient. Two of them with warscythe and phase shifter lords runs you more then 12 bare wraiths. They will be able to do well working in concert, but the cost is so high for the damage output. Where they are better then wraiths is the shear speed they can move across the board and threaten assault. When I have used them, I usually refuse flank or simply threaten charges in their backfield.

The chariot rules simply do not work well enough. Here is a typical assault: I charge the unit and kill several, then they break the transport trying to surround it so that I am simply dead. If I survive, I am out of the assault and they can do whatever they want. This doesn't work at all for counter assault unless they are working with something like wraiths whom can still be locked in assault. However when they are hitting weak units in the backfield, they don't care as much about losing their ride as long as they disrupt/contest.

The CCB does do a great job at killing vehicles, which may become more important as land raiders are on the rise.

I like the Stalker. It amplifies you army's firepower and can always to used to tie up something that make it to your lines. When I bring it, it is usually at the cost of wraiths.
I really like them when I get two courts to put a pair of lanceteks and warriors in each ark. This kind of list benefits from the dual CCBs to unlock the courts and keep the mass armor.

I have never fielded a Doomday Ark and will likely never. I simply do not like the lack of mobility.

My usual lists are at 1850, where my core is triple ghost arks, triple anni barges, and a pair of scythes. This combination gets me firepower, resilience, and mobility.

It's still very good. What with 4 HP, AV13, a 5+ jink save, and the ability to keep it night fighting for half the game (so, 3+ jink saves), you've got a lot of durability there. Yes, it's countered by things like lascannons, but that's just about it. If your opponent isn't spamming the highest of high strength anti-tank weapons, it's going to be really tough for your opponent to take them down. That and the 5 HP fast skimming chariot with S10 Ap1 warscythe attacks on a model that when you kill can just get back up has been a big pain to me more than once. Especially when you bring two of them.

Necron vehicles require the kind of firepower you need to take down AV14 vehicles, except that you can spam your vehicles in ways that even a guard army could only dream of. Taking down a single land raider is easy. Taking down the rough equivalent of eight or nine is not.

 Ailaros wrote:
with S10 Ap1 warscythe attacks

... whoa, I hope that was just a typo, otherwise whoever you've been playing against has been screwing you over.

 Ailaros wrote:
It's still very good. What with 4 HP, AV13, a 5+ jink save, and the ability to keep it night fighting for half the game (so, 3+ jink saves),

Considering the range on Necron weapons, it's usually no more than 5+ on the jink.

HoW with a warscythe is S10 AP1, isn't it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, also, against tau, you're going to cry if he's brought longstrike (or even a generic raillhead w/bsf)

510 no saves, AP1 into open topped. Usually BS5. That's nearly 50% kill rate per turn. God forbid paired railheads.

Nope, Hammer of Wrath has a set strength; depending on wether or not you are talking about a chariot or normal jump infantry/monstrous creatures. Also it does not benefit from the special rules on the warscythe at all.

 jy2 wrote:

KelCJ wrote:
Afraid I'm not familiar with Daemons. Never had the chance to play against them. What makes them so strong against an armor wall? Can they take more than 2 flying monstrous creatures? Thought that'd only be reserved for Tyranids or Chaos?

They can take 5 FMC's...and that's not including allied CSM. They're a very, very fast army that can wreck those AV13 vehicles on Turn 2.

Well, I've battled such a Daemon list in a friendly game (without Wraiths) and went for their troops, killed all of them, scored with Immortals, and won the game. I wouldn't be too afraid of them. With Wraiths, its even easier. Necrons have higher mobility and can target the enemy where it hurts most.

I dont think they can as they are Jump Infantry.

why do people still think this?
if im not horribly mistaken they are very bulky (IE count as 3 models)
they can jump around in night scythes or whatever. not that i ever would take one there, but hey they can still do it

Zheak wrote:

I dont think they can as they are Jump Infantry.

why do people still think this?

Because that is the general case in 6e rules, same as in 5e?
Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise. Page 78.

Now, you can transport Jump infantry in Night Scythe, as it states it can transport JI (and even jetbikes).
But you cannot transport Destroyer Lords in Ghost Arks because it specifically states what types of models it can transport, and Destroyer Lord is not mentioned in the description. And no, Destroyer Lord is neither Necron Lord nor Necron Overlord.

Zheak wrote:
if im not horribly mistaken they are very bulky (IE count as 3 models)

JI are just bulky (count as 2 models).