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 -Loki- wrote:
Didn't you get your minimum wage of diamond encrusted diamonds this week?

Probably. I get my army of servants (who I pay in rubies) to throw it into my Scrooge McDuck-style money vault. Might go for a swim in it later...

Thachng wrote:
I noticed the price of codex and army books on ibooks are now $80 instead of $50 was there a reason for that. Seems really expensive for a digital book. I don't know what they are doing really. Do they want to price themselves out of Au?

Because the world likes screwing over Australia. Everyone likes screwing with them. Everything is overpriced.

The Auz Government isn't pleased with any of it and has already had hearings on it:
http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/it-giants-in-price-probe-20120428-1xs16.html

The Australians on the board like to act like GW are the only ones doing it. Apple and Microsoft are doing it to.


And those are digital download prices. These make GW's markups look like a bargain.

GW just realized they can get away with it digitally as well.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
Have any Australians looked at using a proxie server to log into iBooks and check pricing then? Might be able to back door the pricing on the initial purchase by convincing the server you live in the US (or pretty much any country other than Australia).

Interesting that you mention this, people wanting cheap video games have been doing this for a while until Steam started cracking down on it. Even though it is a legal grey area our country's consumer watchdog has actually started to encourage people to do this exact thing due to the ripoff of all digital goods and big companies like Apple, MS & Adobe refusing to show up for a parliamentary inquiry into their regional pricing.

EDIT: Going on from what silent 25 said. You think those prices are bad, turns out it is cheaper to pay an employee to fly to the US, buy adobe software than fly it back to Aus than to just buy it here in Aus.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/biztech/it-is-cheaper-to-fly-to-us-than-buy-adobe-software-in-australia/story-fn5lic6c-1226576920561

silent25 wrote:

Thachng wrote:
I noticed the price of codex and army books on ibooks are now $80 instead of $50 was there a reason for that. Seems really expensive for a digital book. I don't know what they are doing really. Do they want to price themselves out of Au?

Because the world likes screwing over Australia. Everyone likes screwing with them. Everything is overpriced.

The Auz Government isn't pleased with any of it and has already had hearings on it:
http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/it-giants-in-price-probe-20120428-1xs16.html

The Australians on the board like to act like GW are the only ones doing it. Apple and Microsoft are doing it to.


And those are digital download prices. These make GW's markups look like a bargain.

GW just realized they can get away with it digitally as well.

And the funny thing is that all 3 of those products can be torrented for free. Gouging like this is stupid.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:
Ones income should not affect the price of consumer goods compared to the income of another.

Of course it should.

Let's say you have a budget of $1000 after covering all of your expenses. My goal as a company is to get that entire $1000, and give you as little in return as possible. So, for example, I want to sell you a basic tactical squad for $100.

Now let's say your friend makes less money and only has $100 to spend. I still want to get all of that $100, but a single tactical squad isn't enough to play the game (so they won't even try the game) and your friend is probably going to be reluctant to spend all of their money on a single purchase. So I'll drop the price of the tactical squad to $10 (where I still make a profit) and get your friend's sales too.

The only problem with this plan is that there's no way to keep you from going to the special store where I sell stuff to your friend. On the other hand, when you're talking about selling to different countries I can easily decide that Australia has more income to spend and is used to paying higher prices and increase their prices significantly.

Yep. That's price discrimination for you. See also "why are Greatswords so much more expensive than State Troops?"

 Aerethan wrote:
And the funny thing is that all 3 of those products can be torrented for free. Gouging like this is stupid.

Except that:

1) Many people are going to pirate those products anyway. I don't really see any difference between $350 and $850 for MS Office, I'm either going to pirate it or find a free alternative. So Microsoft might as well make the price $850 for the people who will buy it, as long as the increase in losses to piracy is less than the increased profit from higher prices.

2) Many customers don't care. Yes, you as an individual think it would be stupid to pay $850, but if you're running a large business the difference between $350 and $850 is a rounding error and you're not even going to consider risking the legal problems of piracy over a mere $500.

And given that we're talking about very successful software companies I really doubt that this sales strategy is losing money and they're just too stupid to see it.

With the exception of perhaps the Apple OS, the rest of those and damn near everything can/will still be sold by 3rd parties at the US prices.

Newegg will sell MS Office at their US price to someone in Aus.

So just because MS might charge $850 doesn't mean people pay it.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:
And the funny thing is that all 3 of those products can be torrented for free. Gouging like this is stupid.

Except that:

1) Many people are going to pirate those products anyway. I don't really see any difference between $350 and $850 for MS Office, I'm either going to pirate it or find a free alternative. So Microsoft might as well make the price $850 for the people who will buy it, as long as the increase in losses to piracy is less than the increased profit from higher prices.

2) Many customers don't care. Yes, you as an individual think it would be stupid to pay $850, but if you're running a large business the difference between $350 and $850 is a rounding error and you're not even going to consider risking the legal problems of piracy over a mere $500.

And given that we're talking about very successful software companies I really doubt that this sales strategy is losing money and they're just too stupid to see it.

1) out of curiosity, if the price where $40-$60 would you pay for it or still opt for the free option?

2) I think that this sort of pricing is a way to encourage the software use to be inclusive to a certain group. Similarly how certain universities can get the software for next to nothing, or certain businesses that have a contract with the software providers to only use their products in exchange for a discount. It makes me wonder what benefit the company might gain from discouraging purchase in AU.

Quite right, the sales strategy is doing exactly what it is designed to do, whatever that may be.

Hello We from GW jus increased the price of our Digital iBooks.

This is good News!


Everyone knowz Ozzy computers work differently, translating the code takes lots of time hence the price increase

 Aerethan wrote:
With the exception of perhaps the Apple OS, the rest of those and damn near everything can/will still be sold by 3rd parties at the US prices.

Newegg will sell MS Office at their US price to someone in Aus.

So just because MS might charge $850 doesn't mean people pay it.

I was pointing out digital prices, not physical.

Man, I feel bad for the Aussies. And they're so likeable, worked with an Aussie here in the States last year, really fun guy, and he talked about this general price disparity a lot.

Like, to buy a house in Australia, you need a very large down payment, far higher than anyone in the US would pay for a comparable house.

They also seemed to get screwed with inferior cell phone service at very high prices, far beyond US norms.

It sounds like GW is just begging potential AUS customers to pirate their stuff.

silent25 wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:
With the exception of perhaps the Apple OS, the rest of those and damn near everything can/will still be sold by 3rd parties at the US prices.

Newegg will sell MS Office at their US price to someone in Aus.

So just because MS might charge $850 doesn't mean people pay it.

I was pointing out digital prices, not physical.

But see that is a reason that this doesn't translate well. MS offers their SOFTWARE product in a physical CD copy that can be sold globally. So we can just write off the digital price as being marked up for no real reason, as consumers will likely just buy the CD with it for 1/2 the price.

Now show me where I can buy a CD with the iBooks from GW on it. I can buy their regular books for 30% off all day every day, but not this.

Now if MS ONLY sold Office as that download, it would be an apt comparison.

MS sells as much as it does because it bundles with OTHER companies to get it's product out there. Now if you went to Best Buy and bought a $500 PC then they told you "btw Win8 is another $149 if you want that PC to function" then the sales would plummet and you'd see people finding alternate ways of acquiring what they want(torrents).

Show me where GW uses this tactic? They don't. Even their own bundles show no savings in many cases.

Alas, it appears that regardless of GW sticking it to AZN, there is already a functioning work around to still get the US pricing.


I don't see why Australians should have to pay more. You know why they get paid more? Because they live in a place where EVERYTHING is trying to kill them.

 Aerethan wrote:

But see that is a reason that this doesn't translate well. MS offers their SOFTWARE product in a physical CD copy that can be sold globally. So we can just write off the digital price as being marked up for no real reason, as consumers will likely just buy the CD with it for 1/2 the price.

Now show me where I can buy a CD with the iBooks from GW on it. I can buy their regular books for 30% off all day every day, but not this.

Now if MS ONLY sold Office as that download, it would be an apt comparison.

MS sells as much as it does because it bundles with OTHER companies to get it's product out there. Now if you went to Best Buy and bought a $500 PC then they told you "btw Win8 is another $149 if you want that PC to function" then the sales would plummet and you'd see people finding alternate ways of acquiring what they want(torrents).

Show me where GW uses this tactic? They don't. Even their own bundles show no savings in many cases.

Alas, it appears that regardless of GW sticking it to AZN, there is already a functioning work around to still get the US pricing.


I don't see why Australians should have to pay more. You know why they get paid more? Because they live in a place where EVERYTHING is trying to kill them.

And as you noted before, Apple pulls this stuff off also. So I don't see what is the point of your argument.

Oh and looks like there is now a push by retailers in Australia to fix the price problem, by adding an import tax......
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/treasury/retailers-push-for-gst-on-imports/story-fn59nsif-1226621117830

As someone who actually knows what the hell is going on..
READ THE BOTTOM PARAGRAGH FOR SHORT VERSION

Our minimum wage is more than USA or GB, however our living costs are much higher. This is because of the taxes that are (once collected togethr ie registrastions, GST, base tax, high superannuation, etc in the top 3 highest tax rates/ wage in a first world country, so primary services (tranport, docks, import, farm food power rates rent) they say.. "Hey we have to pay staff 20% more here so well charge 20% more oops finger slipped now its 25% more"
then the secondary industries say "transport and other primary industries cost more here and we STILL have to pay our staff more, 25% it is, oops finger slipped" then tertiary luxury industries say, "well, when in Rome, oops.. And oops again"
if anyone asks why and our version of the FBI (ACCC) have looked a it time and time again just to realise a little organisation like Oz has cant do gak, they say "oh yeah but look at our revenue.. And the taxes... And the minimum staff wage..." So it ends with the ACCC saying "yes it's gouging, but their legally aloud to on the global market such as the laws are now."

In short to those that want the punch line... High as hell taxes have a steam roll effect from primary (food/ power/ transport) onwards, once it gets to global tertiary industry product (ie luxuries) It's a stampeding bull!! When the Oz government looks to change we find the global laws protecting the interests of companies that gouge prices, are more ironclad than anything the ACCC (Oz FBI) can produce for our interest..

IE if we want luxury goods then us backwater plebs at he bottom of the world better play ball!!

silent25 wrote:
Oh and looks like there is now a push by retailers in Australia to fix the price problem, by adding an import tax......
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/treasury/retailers-push-for-gst-on-imports/story-fn59nsif-1226621117830

Not going to happen. The Customs office has said on several occasions now that our large duty-free threshold is there because collecting on the small stuff would cost them more to implement than they would make from it. It's just not economically viable.

And it also wouldn't make a difference to overseas purcahses. When you're saving 50% by buying from overseas, a 10% GST isn't going to suddenly make you decide to go back to buying from within Oz.

 insaniak wrote:

silent25 wrote:
Oh and looks like there is now a push by retailers in Australia to fix the price problem, by adding an import tax......
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/treasury/retailers-push-for-gst-on-imports/story-fn59nsif-1226621117830

Not going to happen. The Customer office has said on several occasions now that our large duty-free threshold is there because collecting on the small stuff would cost them more to implement than they would make from it. It's just not economically viable.

And it also wouldn't make a difference to overseas purcahses. When you're saving 50% by buying from overseas, a 10% GST isn't going to suddenly make you decide to go back to buying from within Oz.

Good to hear, but I'm pretty sure Australian politicians are like politicians everywhere. Never underestimated the power of money and stupidity. Fortunately it sounds like there hasn't been enough of the first and there isn't too much of the second.

Oh and I clarification for my early posts before I get gang-nerd-raged by "that has nothing to do with IT goods"... They still have Oz staff, get taxed for the 'goods' and have to pay registration costs to do business here in Oz... Yes it's WELL above and beyond they'd tiny teams, and small revenue in comparison to their prices... So? What's it to them if they get away with by saying.. "It costs more to do business here.. Hence the prices... What?... You want to see our figures??.. I'm afraid that's confidential"

silent25 wrote:
]The Australians on the board like to act like GW are the only ones doing it. Apple and Microsoft are doing it to.

Actually, the Australians on the board admit that not only GW does it, but this is a wargaming forum. Not EVERYONE price gouges Australia, there are specific things that are gouged more than others. As an Australian in the US, there's several things I plan to buy here and ship back, other things, not so much. Computer hardware, for the most part, not that much more in Oz.

As someone who has both an Australian and a US iTunes account, I can say that I mostly buy things on my US account because it's cheaper, surprisingly though, some things on iTunes are actually cheaper or the same price in the Australian store.

But at the end of the day, this is a wargaming forum, not a "random item X" forum, and thusly we tend to talk about GW price gouging more than EA Games price gouging or Avon Tyres price gouging.

As for the ebook pricing, yes, it's stupid. Any excuse to raise prices "oh it has rotating images, so it'll cost more", "oh it's hardcover so it'll cost more", "oh... it's digital... but...er... the physical copy is hard cover so it will... err... cost more?".

I personally don't pirate any software or anything, but I'm more than happy for people to pirate the hell out of GW book in Oz when the pricing is so damned insane. The idea that you should pay $83 to get only one fifteenth of the rules for the models that can be used in the game without getting any of the core rules is, IMO, lunacy.

silent25 wrote:
The Australians on the board like to act like GW are the only ones doing it. Apple and Microsoft are doing it to.

Apple aren't that bad actually. Their devices, while expensive, are approaching parity with their US prices, so it's essentially the same price for us to buy here as it is to order from the US. The problem is their devices are expensive in the US to begin with. Their digital distribution prices are driven by the music, movie and book industries (which is why there's a median price for everything), while game prices are set by the publisher (which is why prices are all over). The reason some games cost money on iTunes but are free on Android is because people with Apple products tend to actually pay for Apps.

Pish tush! Everyone knows that Australia is peopled by convicts, exiles, and failures in any event! They are the scum of the Empire and deserve to be treated as such!

Say, who is this ruffian in homemade armour, and why why is he holding a gun upon us, the duly appointed King's Constabulary Forces?!

The Auld Grump

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

silent25 wrote:
]The Australians on the board like to act like GW are the only ones doing it. Apple and Microsoft are doing it to.

Actually, the Australians on the board admit that not only GW does it, but this is a wargaming forum. Not EVERYONE price gouges Australia, there are specific things that are gouged more than others. As an Australian in the US, there's several things I plan to buy here and ship back, other things, not so much. Computer hardware, for the most part, not that much more in Oz.

From all the threads I have seen, they don't admit it. Posted information on this regarding general consumer pricing before and the post normally got ignored. This is the first digital one and there is more specific information (and a handy picture) to point to.

First time I heard about this in detail was through one of the last Podhammer podcasts. They made it sound like GW was insanely expensive compared to other products (non-gaming) in general. They had a guy on trying to organize a petition to get GW to acknowledge and fix the problem. Believed it was a GW only problem for a long time, then met a couple guys from Australia who pointed out that those two large suitcases they brought weren't full. They were buying game consoles and a bunch of games for themselves and friends. Pointed out plenty of run of the mill stuff that was twice as much.

Given there are more products than just miniatures points to some larger structural problem in Australia's import system and is causing it or being exploited to justify it.

I think the higher prices are fair enough, after all they need to get through the box jellyfish, the funnelweb spiders, the inland taipans, kangaroos, koalas, wombats, emus, great white sharks, and serial killers to get to us, so there's bound to be an increase in shipping costs*

Of course, this hardly applies to digital versions.

*/sarcasm

 -Loki- wrote:

silent25 wrote:
The Australians on the board like to act like GW are the only ones doing it. Apple and Microsoft are doing it to.

Apple aren't that bad actually. Their devices, while expensive, are approaching parity with their US prices, so it's essentially the same price for us to buy here as it is to order from the US. The problem is their devices are expensive in the US to begin with. Their digital distribution prices are driven by the music, movie and book industries (which is why there's a median price for everything), while game prices are set by the publisher (which is why prices are all over). The reason some games cost money on iTunes but are free on Android is because people with Apple products tend to actually pay for Apps.

But still other companies are doing it. While Apple may not be directly doing it, they enable it through their iStore and allow multiple content providers to gouge consumers. Again, GW is not the only one. Hence...

I keep wanting to respond to the title of the thread with "because they hate you". But it's a dick move on GW's part, as most of the Aussie members here are decent guys, and you feel sorry they get the short end of the stick.

silent25 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

silent25 wrote:
]The Australians on the board like to act like GW are the only ones doing it. Apple and Microsoft are doing it to.

Actually, the Australians on the board admit that not only GW does it, but this is a wargaming forum. Not EVERYONE price gouges Australia, there are specific things that are gouged more than others. As an Australian in the US, there's several things I plan to buy here and ship back, other things, not so much. Computer hardware, for the most part, not that much more in Oz.

From all the threads I have seen, they don't admit it. Posted information on this regarding general consumer pricing before and the post normally got ignored.

If by admit you mean say "oh GW pricing is fine... other people do it too", then yes, people don't "admit" it. But we are on a WARGAMING forum, the point that some (not all) other things cost more in Oz often comes up and I don't think I've ever heard anyone refuting the idea the some other companies also do it. Of course, the fact other companies in other markets do it doesn't mean GW are right to do it and/or that people shouldn't complain about it.

Personally, I never had a big issue with GW Australia pricing as long as I could still buy internationally, just as I don't have a massive problem with video game pricing as long as it's easy enough to get international pricing as I think it's an acceptable way to say "we don't accept your domestic pricing model". The recent trade agreement saying it's a violation to sell internationally is what has made me more interested in the topic of Australian GW pricing.

silent25 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

silent25 wrote:
]The Australians on the board like to act like GW are the only ones doing it. Apple and Microsoft are doing it to.

Actually, the Australians on the board admit that not only GW does it, but this is a wargaming forum. Not EVERYONE price gouges Australia, there are specific things that are gouged more than others. As an Australian in the US, there's several things I plan to buy here and ship back, other things, not so much. Computer hardware, for the most part, not that much more in Oz.

From all the threads I have seen, they don't admit it. Posted information on this regarding general consumer pricing before and the post normally got ignored. This is the first digital one and there is more specific information (and a handy picture) to point to.

First time I heard about this in detail was through one of the last Podhammer podcasts. They made it sound like GW was insanely expensive compared to other products (non-gaming) in general. They had a guy on trying to organize a petition to get GW to acknowledge and fix the problem. Believed it was a GW only problem for a long time, then met a couple guys from Australia who pointed out that those two large suitcases they brought weren't full. They were buying game consoles and a bunch of games for themselves and friends. Pointed out plenty of run of the mill stuff that was twice as much.

Given there are more products than just miniatures points to some larger structural problem in Australia's import system and is causing it or being exploited to justify it.

No real structural problem - the problem is that it is higher now because it needed to be higher 20 years ago to account for actual increased shipping costs and of course past disparity in exchange rates. A lot of companies decided they would just keep the high rates as opposed to adjusting them in line with exchange swings or using a fixed wholesale rate and letting the retailers in country sort things out after they determined their own costing.

You may find people not acknowledging it because it is irrelevant instead of because it being right or wrong. If one or two other industries are intent on bending Aussies over...it doesn't mean they should happily grab their ankles when GW comes along.

Actual shipping prices to Australia are not much different than shipping prices anywhere else now. Digital downloads in particular have no shipping price. Retail in country should be done on a simple formula:

Host country price x Exchange Rate + Applicable taxes = Australian Price. All conversions can be done on a day by day basis just like when I pay for my Exact Editions subscriptions. I don't get charged more because I am in the US and they have to send it over longer wires to get to me from the UK.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

No real structural problem - the problem is that it is higher now because it needed to be higher 20 years ago to account for actual increased shipping costs and of course past disparity in exchange rates. A lot of companies decided they would just keep the high rates as opposed to adjusting them in line with exchange swings or using a fixed wholesale rate and letting the retailers in country sort things out after they determined their own costing.

You may find people not acknowledging it because it is irrelevant instead of because it being right or wrong. If one or two other industries are intent on bending Aussies over...it doesn't mean they should happily grab their ankles when GW comes along.

Actual shipping prices to Australia are not much different than shipping prices anywhere else now. Digital downloads in particular have no shipping price. Retail in country should be done on a simple formula:

Host country price x Exchange Rate + Applicable taxes = Australian Price. All conversions can be done on a day by day basis just like when I pay for my Exact Editions subscriptions. I don't get charged more because I am in the US and they have to send it over longer wires to get to me from the UK.

But then you should see far more parity across all consumer products. Cost of living comparisons still show Australia is 50% more than the US. Competition and cheaper goods should be driving this down. It is more than just "one or two industries". It still points to a wider problem.

And I agree, the digital pricing is a joke and has no reflection of actual costs.

silent25 wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

silent25 wrote:
The Australians on the board like to act like GW are the only ones doing it. Apple and Microsoft are doing it to.

Apple aren't that bad actually. Their devices, while expensive, are approaching parity with their US prices, so it's essentially the same price for us to buy here as it is to order from the US. The problem is their devices are expensive in the US to begin with. Their digital distribution prices are driven by the music, movie and book industries (which is why there's a median price for everything), while game prices are set by the publisher (which is why prices are all over). The reason some games cost money on iTunes but are free on Android is because people with Apple products tend to actually pay for Apps.

But still other companies are doing it. While Apple may not be directly doing it, they enable it through their iStore and allow multiple content providers to gouge consumers. Again, GW is not the only one. Hence...

By enable it you of course mean they're allowed to sell it.

They outlined this in a supreme court hearing about a month back. Apple admitted they actually want to move prices closer - hence why the hardware is quickly nearing parity. Their license to sell music, books and movies comes with strict terms from those industries, both in terms of what they can sell here (which is why we sometimes wait over a year for an iTunes album the US has had since release) and also pricing.

I'm not going to get into the whole apple-market-share-gives-them-wiggle-room debate, because it's boring. This is what we do know from a supreme court hearing.

And to be fairer to Apple, Microsoft and Adobe basically said 'feth you, you'll pay what we want you to pay in Australia, there's nothing illegal about geo-blocking prices'. Apple at least show they do want to acheive better pricing, which is evidenced in their hardware prices.

Also, when you said you'd never heard about Australians complaining about non-GW pricing, I brought up this very case you're discussing now in the last price thread. And several other Australians commented on it. Maybe you missed it?

The new Tau releases are actually priced fairly in Australian dollars. Compare the Riptide model on the GW OZ site with the US site. There's a couple other models which also seem fairly priced, although other models like Broadsides are still 50% more.

Anyways, yeah, blows to be Aussie. If you have an American friend buy and ship you models, is that illegal? I.E. is this price discrimination caused by laws on the Aussie end, or is this just a corporate gang-rape?

Xyrael wrote:
Anyways, yeah, blows to be Aussie. If you have an American friend buy and ship you models, is that illegal? I.E. is this price discrimination caused by laws on the Aussie end, or is this just a corporate gang-rape?

The laws take place at the point of origin. For example, the European Embargo is all about stopping them shipping to us. We're allowed to order from them perfectly well, but they just can't ship it to us.

In the case of the US, there's currently nothing illegal about simply placing an order from a US webstore, and nothing stops them from shipping to Australia.

The European Embargo seems to have had the desired effect and made Australians think we're simply not allowed to order from overseas. But that wasn't what they did at all. If they tried that, the ACCC would have been all over them.