Boston Marathon Bombing Discussion

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**Dreadclaw69**

whembly wrote:
Yeah... I was stuck on the big ones with respect to WMDs...

(so, does that mean Boosh was right with Iraq? waves, ducks and RUNS! )

Iraq's WMDs would likely have fallen under the military, not civilian, definition -

For the general purposes of national defense,[23] US Code[24] defines a weapon of mass destruction as:
any weapon or device that is intended, or has the capability, to cause death or serious bodily injury to a significant number of people through the release, dissemination, or impact of:
toxic or poisonous chemicals or their precursors
a disease organism
radiation or radioactivity[25]
For the purposes of the prevention of weapons proliferation,[26] US Code defines weapons of mass destruction as "chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, and chemical, biological, and nuclear materials used in the manufacture of such weapons

**BaronIveagh**

Ok, we have one count of using a WMD and one count of malicious destruction of property resulting in death.

No word yet if Mass will let this be DoJ's baby or file their own charges.

BTW: Civil War reenactments look out! You're violating WMD every time one of those fx rounds fire.

**whembly**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
whembly wrote:
Yeah... I was stuck on the big ones with respect to WMDs...

(so, does that mean Boosh was right with Iraq? waves, ducks and RUNS! )

Iraq's WMDs would likely have fallen under the military, not civilian, definition -

For the general purposes of national defense,[23] US Code[24] defines a weapon of mass destruction as:
any weapon or device that is intended, or has the capability, to cause death or serious bodily injury to a significant number of people through the release, dissemination, or impact of:
toxic or poisonous chemicals or their precursors
a disease organism
radiation or radioactivity[25]
For the purposes of the prevention of weapons proliferation,[26] US Code defines weapons of mass destruction as "chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, and chemical, biological, and nuclear materials used in the manufacture of such weapons

Bah... I feel like this is another one of those "that depends on what the definition of "is" is... "

**Dreadclaw69**

whembly wrote:
Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Out of interest can a trial be conducted in the US with just a judge and no jury for terrorist trials?

I think the defendant can only request juror or judge-only trial.

Ok, so its different to Northern Ireland and Diplock trials (judge only) when dealing with terrorist offences. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplock_courts

**whembly**

BaronIveagh wrote:
Ok, we have one count of using a WMD and one count of malicious destruction of property resulting in death.

No word yet if Mass will let this be DoJ's baby or file their own charges.

BTW: Civil War reenactments look out! You're violating WMD every time one of those fx rounds fire.

They could probably charge me after eating several belly bombers from White Castles!

**Jihadin**

Imagine the mayhem if he walks because his Miranda Rights wasn't read to him in time..............

**whembly**

GO CANADA!

From twittah:

Canadian officials will be reporting that they stopped a major planned terrorist attack with multiple arrests... stay tuned for more details.

-sounds like this is unrelated to the Boston attack...

**Grey Templar**

BaronIveagh wrote:
Ok, we have one count of using a WMD and one count of malicious destruction of property resulting in death.

No word yet if Mass will let this be DoJ's baby or file their own charges.

BTW: Civil War reenactments look out! You're violating WMD every time one of those fx rounds fire.

Well, the DoJ will probably take precedence. This wasn't just an attack on Boston, heck if some of the international runners had been injured/killed we could have had an international trial.

And Civil War reenactments won't count as they aren't "intended" to harm anyone.

**whembly**

Jihadin wrote:
Imagine the mayhem if he walks because his Miranda Rights wasn't read to him in time..............

Not gunna happen...

Check this out dude... The Danger of Treating War As a Criminal Matter... to Criminal Rights

**BaronIveagh**

Grey Templar wrote:
And Civil War reenactments won't count as they aren't "intended" to harm anyone.

You've never been hit by a cork ball, have you? Those damn things hurt when fired from a cannon.

Jihadin wrote:
Imagine the mayhem if he walks because his Miranda Rights wasn't read to him in time..............

Depends if the defense can mount an argument that his rights continued to be denied *after* the threat to public safety was over. If so...

**Grey Templar**

Since when have Civil War reenactments actually fired projectiles?

I need to start going again.

**whembly**

The Canadian officials disrupted a major terrorist plot... new thread?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/04/22/pol-terror-plot-ontario-quebec-arrests.html

Canadian police and intelligence agencies will announce later today they have thwarted a plot to carry out a major terrorist attack, arresting two suspects in Montreal and Toronto, CBC News has learned.

Highly placed sources tell CBC News the alleged plotters have been under surveillance for more than a year in Quebec and southern Ontario.

The two men are expected to appear in court tomorrow.

Police have made a number of arrests in southern Ontario and Quebec following a joint operation between Canadian and U.S. authorities. (CBC)
The investigation was part of a cross-border operation involving Canadian law enforcement agencies, the FBI and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

The arrests Monday morning were co-ordinated and executed by a special joint task force of RCMP and CSIS anti-terrorism units, combined with provincial and municipal police forces in Ontario and Quebec.

The RCMP are expected to hold a press conference Monday afternoon to announce the arrests and provide details of the alleged plot, and give an overview of the extensive police and intelligence operation.

Law enforcement officials say the terror suspects arrested today have no connection to the two brothers accused of last week's Boston Marathon bombings.

They also say there is no tie to the former London, Ont., high school friends who joined al-Qaeda and died earlier this year while helping to stage a bloody attack on an Algerian gas refinery.

Alleged plot recalls Toronto 18 case
Sources say the alleged plot disrupted by Monday's arrests was potentially more dangerous than the bombings and hostage-takings planned by the so-called Toronto 18.

That plot was broken up in the summer of 2006, when police arrested 18 people in a massive anti-terrorism sweep in southern Ontario.

Eleven of the 18 were subsequently convicted of aiding the group in various plots, ranging from blowing up the Peace Tower on Parliament Hill and the Toronto Stock Exchange with trucks laden with explosives to beheading the prime minister and other politicians.

The group never got a chance to execute any of its plans before being arrested when one of its members took delivery of what they thought were three tonnes of explosive fertilizer to be used in truck bombs. Undercover agents had replaced the shipment with harmless chemicals.

Four are serving sentences of 18 years to life in prison, while the other seven received terms ranging from 30 months to just over seven years.

More recently, three Canadian citizens were arrested in August, 2010 — two Ottawa men and a London, Ont. doctor — and charged with knowingly facilitating a terrorist activity.

One of them, Hiva Alizadeh, was also charged with possession of more than 50 circuit boards allegedly to be used as remote detonators for bombs.

**BaronIveagh**

Grey Templar wrote:
Since when have Civil War reenactments actually fired projectiles?

I need to start going again.

East Coast or West Coast? I got hit by one a few years ago during Gettysburg. Both sides were using them during Pickett's Charge.(despite rules about that sort of thing).

If you're looking for actual violence, join the Irish Brigade or any of the Texas infantry units. They're not too shy about actual hand to hand.

**dogma**

whembly wrote:

But, he's now being charged with the federal "Weapons of Mass Destruction"?? Erm... wat? Did he have nukes or bio weapons??

Any explosive device is a weapon of mass destruction per US law.

**BaronIveagh**

dogma wrote:

Any explosive device is a weapon of mass destruction per US law.

Long since NInja'd dogma.

Though I didn't give a link. Nice touch.

**whembly**

dogma wrote:
whembly wrote:

But, he's now being charged with the federal "Weapons of Mass Destruction"?? Erm... wat? Did he have nukes or bio weapons??

Any explosive device is a weapon of mass destruction per US law.

Oooo... good source. Thanks.

**Grey Templar**

BaronIveagh wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
Since when have Civil War reenactments actually fired projectiles?

I need to start going again.

East Coast or West Coast? I got hit by one a few years ago during Gettysburg. Both sides were using them during Pickett's Charge.(despite rules about that sort of thing).

If you're looking for actual violence, join the Irish Brigade or any of the Texas infantry units. They're not too shy about actual hand to hand.

West Coast. Haven't been to any on the East Coast.

**CptJake**

BaronIveagh wrote:

Jihadin wrote:
Imagine the mayhem if he walks because his Miranda Rights wasn't read to him in time..............

Depends if the defense can mount an argument that his rights continued to be denied *after* the threat to public safety was over. If so...

Not so. If the prosecution ONLY relied on evidence obtained from interrogation without rights notification they may have some problems (but even then could perhaps overcome it). If they use any forensic evidence, witnesses, or other evidence that did not rely on his interrogation they will not have a problem.

**motyak**

So did that beck fellowvreveal anything? Monday was the day right? Just curious.

**whembly**

motyak wrote:
So did that beck fellowvreveal anything? Monday was the day right? Just curious.

Eh... I had to check... this is what he's saying:

Background points:

-A Saudi national originally identified as a “person of interest” in the Boston Marathon bombing was set to be deported under section 212 3B — “Security and related grounds” — “Terrorist activities” after the bombing
-As the story gained traction, TheBlaze’s Chief Content Officer Joel Cheatwood received word that the government may not deport the Saudi national, originally identified as Abdul Rahman Ali Alharbi
-Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano refused to answer questions on the subject when confronted by Rep. Jeff Duncan (R-SC) on Capitol Hill.
-An ICE official said a different Saudi national is in custody, but is “in no way” connected to the bombings.
-A congressional source, however, says that the file on Alharbi was created, that he was “linked” in some way to the Boston bombings (though it is unclear how), and that documents showing all this have been sent to Congress.
-Key congressmen of the Committee on Homeland Security request a classified briefing with Napolitano
-Fox News’ Todd Starnes reports that Alharbi was allegedly flagged on a terrorist watch list and granted a student visa without being properly vetted. Sources close to the investigation also told him the Saudi is still set for deportation.
-New information provided to TheBlaze reveals Alharbi’s file was altered early Wednesday evening to disassociate him from the initial charges
-Sources say the Saudi’s student visa specifically allows him to go to school in Findlay, Ohio, though he appears to have an apartment in Boston, Massachusetts
-Sources tell us this will most likely now be kicked from the DHS to the DOJ and labeled an ongoing investigation that can no longer be discussed.

This have the markings of the "Saudis aren't our fwiends" hysteria...

Let's wait until this is coraborated or denied by other sources...

**Ouze**

Breotan wrote:

I thought it an apt sentiment.

**ironicsilence**

im a little surprised with how few charges the feds filled but I guess you cant include things like the car jacking or shooting at locals in the federal charges? I assume being charges with the use of a WMD carries with it a pretty stiff penalty

**CptJake**

They'll add charges later.

**Experiment 626**

whembly wrote:
The Canadian officials disrupted a major terrorist plot... new thread?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/04/22/pol-terror-plot-ontario-quebec-arrests.html

Canadian police and intelligence agencies will announce later today they have thwarted a plot to carry out a major terrorist attack, arresting two suspects in Montreal and Toronto, CBC News has learned.

Highly placed sources tell CBC News the alleged plotters have been under surveillance for more than a year in Quebec and southern Ontario.

The two men are expected to appear in court tomorrow.

Police have made a number of arrests in southern Ontario and Quebec following a joint operation between Canadian and U.S. authorities. (CBC)
The investigation was part of a cross-border operation involving Canadian law enforcement agencies, the FBI and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

The arrests Monday morning were co-ordinated and executed by a special joint task force of RCMP and CSIS anti-terrorism units, combined with provincial and municipal police forces in Ontario and Quebec.

The RCMP are expected to hold a press conference Monday afternoon to announce the arrests and provide details of the alleged plot, and give an overview of the extensive police and intelligence operation.

Law enforcement officials say the terror suspects arrested today have no connection to the two brothers accused of last week's Boston Marathon bombings.

They also say there is no tie to the former London, Ont., high school friends who joined al-Qaeda and died earlier this year while helping to stage a bloody attack on an Algerian gas refinery.

Alleged plot recalls Toronto 18 case
Sources say the alleged plot disrupted by Monday's arrests was potentially more dangerous than the bombings and hostage-takings planned by the so-called Toronto 18.

That plot was broken up in the summer of 2006, when police arrested 18 people in a massive anti-terrorism sweep in southern Ontario.

Eleven of the 18 were subsequently convicted of aiding the group in various plots, ranging from blowing up the Peace Tower on Parliament Hill and the Toronto Stock Exchange with trucks laden with explosives to beheading the prime minister and other politicians.

The group never got a chance to execute any of its plans before being arrested when one of its members took delivery of what they thought were three tonnes of explosive fertilizer to be used in truck bombs. Undercover agents had replaced the shipment with harmless chemicals.

Four are serving sentences of 18 years to life in prison, while the other seven received terms ranging from 30 months to just over seven years.

More recently, three Canadian citizens were arrested in August, 2010 — two Ottawa men and a London, Ont. doctor — and charged with knowingly facilitating a terrorist activity.

One of them, Hiva Alizadeh, was also charged with possession of more than 50 circuit boards allegedly to be used as remote detonators for bombs.

Apparently we tend to attract the world's biggest failerrorists who just haven't gotten beyond the "you need to NOT! come under the near-immediate attention of police/CSIS" part yet...

**Grey Templar**

ironicsilence wrote:
im a little surprised with how few charges the feds filled but I guess you cant include things like the car jacking or shooting at locals in the federal charges? I assume being charges with the use of a WMD carries with it a pretty stiff penalty

A WMD charge carries the death penalty. Don't get caught with a bomb.

**gimboid364**

Condolences to my American friends...

I'm not in any way defending what they did, but why is the remaining defendant not being read his rights?

**Grey Templar**

As was explained, Miranda rights have an exemption clause for imminent danger to the public(there may have still been bombs at large in the city)

Plus they aren't a Constitutional right anyway, rather something a court one time pulled out of their arses.

And as I said before, not being read your rights is not the same as being denied them.

**Frazzled**

Jihadin wrote:
Frazz...your saying that Tbone can play and win with no mercy in Fart Games eh?

You know it! Either while barking at a wall (yes witnessed even by friends, you're not a Level XXIV donkey-cave until you bark at walls to get out of your way) or while on your lap making that squeaky toy pay!)

To the topic I could see bombs meeting the definition of WMD. I imagine the state charges are more plain jane.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Out of interest can a trial be conducted in the US with just a judge and no jury for terrorist trials?

Yes. However, in a criminal case the defendant has the option for a jury trial under the Constitution via one of those amendments no one remembers.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BaronIveagh wrote:
Ok, we have one count of using a WMD and one count of malicious destruction of property resulting in death.

No word yet if Mass will let this be DoJ's baby or file their own charges.

BTW: Civil War reenactments look out! You're violating WMD every time one of those fx rounds fire.

There's nothing against him being charged on both federal and state charges.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jihadin wrote:
Imagine the mayhem if he walks because his Miranda Rights wasn't read to him in time..............

He won't absent another factor he'll be read his M rights (if not already) once the public danger exemption falls away.
Again, that won't save him at all unless his comments are used against him or lead to evidence. In this instance, its almost utterly irrelevant. When you have a running BOMB battle with police there are lots of witnesses.

He's roasty toasty unless he starts talking, er writing.
Put him in general population. Lets see what the white Aryan guys do to him...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:
Since when have Civil War reenactments actually fired projectiles?

I need to start going again.

Only the ones where the South unexpectedly wins.

**Grey Templar**

A Yahoo article says he has been read his rights and formally charged.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/dzhokhar-tsarnaev-terror-charges-filed-173308381.html

**Frazzled**

Grey Templar wrote:
A Yahoo article says he has been read his rights and formally charged.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/dzhokhar-tsarnaev-terror-charges-filed-173308381.html

FOX just said same.