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Hello guys,

My Brets are beaten easily most of the time (guess what). I have been trying couple list but I haven't found a good list enough for being competitive and having fun while I play. So I ended up with this list, I'd like to have your comments. Thanks!

LORD
Virtue of Heroism, Sword of Swift Slaying, Enchanted Shield, Dawn Stone

Prophetess
Dispel Scroll, Crown of Command, Level 4

BSB
Gromril Great Helm, Sword of Might

Damsel
Icon of Quenelles, level 2

50 x Men at Arms
Standard, Musician

2 X 10 Bowmen

2 X 5 Mounted Yeomen

10 x KoTR +BSB+Prophetess
Full Command, War Banner

9 x KE +Lord
Full Command, Errantry Banner

9 x KoTR
Full Command, Banner of Chalons

4 x Peg Knights
Standard

2 x Trebuchet

If I were to suggest anything

I might suggest,,swapping out the prophetess for a couple lvl2 damsels(thats my personal preference anyways)

Also,,,,I might suggest running some KE with the banner that makes then strength 6 instead of the yeoman.

I've been having excellent luck with my brets recently, but I play them like I play my Eldar. Focus on the movement phase, with tons of small units, avoid enemy deathstars, and wipe out their support units with charges, ultimately, I will attempt to surround and elminate the enemies big killer units.

Anyway, a few things I notice.

1) Your lord- I don't like the heartwood lance. I would take the Sword of Swift Slaying instead. ASF is excellent with HKB, it often times gives you re-rolls to hit which gives you more chances to get the 6 you need, and it lets you strike before or simultanious with many dangerous opponents, potentially giving you a lucky kill on a chaos lord or something before they can even strike.

Furthermore, the Sword of Swift Slaying is Dirt Cheap- infact cheap enough that you could afford to take a Dawnstone to get a re-rolling 1+ save!

For your Questing Paladin, I don't think the Virtue of the Ideal is worth it. It is a cool upgrade, but it doesn't really increase his survivability, and the leadership penalty is brutal. Since you are already buying the Questing Vow, why not go for the Insignia of the Quest, a 3+ ward is balls out powerful, and you've only got 2 wounds anyway.

I would take the Banner of Dicipline on your KotR, that way you can project a leadership 10 inspiring presence from your general.

While I do love the models for Questing Knights, I am not convinced that they are worth their points in Grail Knights. The excellent initiative, attacks, and weapon skill of Grail Knights gives them is huge... a Squad of Grail Knights with the Banner of Eternal Flame is an excellent unit which can kill things before they even have a chance to strike, they also can help you multi charge regenerators, and strip away regeneration for your knights at I5.

If you want to do questing knights, I would recommend the "heroic wall" Fill your Front rank with 3 turtle characters (1+ re-rolling lord, 1 or 2+ re-rolling paladin, and Insignia of the Quest Paladin). This way you avoid the Questing Knights weakness of only having a 3+ in close combat, and you have supporting great weapon attacks from the QK. Makes for a very dangerous combat unit in all rounds of combat.

Thanks guys for your feedback. I'll take both of your suggestions because these are really good ones. But I really need +4 dispel so I'll keep my Prophetess, but thanks for the idea Gomericus! I am just tired of giving a lot of points to Heroes and Lords so I took off Questing Knight Paladin with Questing knights. You can check the new list, I edited that. Thanks again guys!

correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the BSB is not allowed to take any magic wpns/items?

BSB is not allow to take any mundane items but he can take magical ones

If you have 3 points to spare in your list / lord slot, a mundane shield and the Dragon Helm give you the same armour save, as well as a 2+ ward vs flaming attacks. Not a bad deal. Especially since its available to you now since you dropped the questing paladin!

Also I still think Braizers are always worth it on your Archers. 5 points to get flaming arrows is still really cool, not everybody plays high elves. Also its pretty funny to strip regeneration with arrows, then hit em with a trebuchet.

I would be tempted to add shields / a musician to your Mounted Yeomen, but that is just me, and I'm not certain that those upgrades are worth it.

good catch! thanks again!

I stand corrected, thanks tulmir, havent picked up my bret book in quite some time (2 years about)

Your list is trying to go in too many different directions I think.

Your Lord build is fine, but a little risky due to no Mantle. The overall idea is fine, but I would change up his kit a bit- rather than the Enchanted Shield and Dawnstone I would give him the Gromril Great Helm- there are good spots for his current 2 items elsewhere.

The Level 4 doesn't really need the Crown. If your lances are getting flanked or caught in bad combats, they will most likely not be able to grind their way out of combat and will just die regardless. Instead, I'd suggest giving her the Silver Mirror (double Scroll is awesome) and the Falcon Horn so that your opponent can be wrong-footed on a turn where they expected being able to block you off with their flyers. Also, what Lore is she using? Heavens is pretty much the best all round for Brets.

I'd give the BSB the Enchanted Shield and Dawnstone.

The Icon isn't really necessary in this list, as you've not built it towards doing the turn 1 Alpha Strike 33" charge. Instead, I would give her the Dispel Scroll.

Men at Arms are just generally quite poor. Those points could instead get you a whole host of other units, such as 2x5 chaff knights and 2 chaff Paladins.

If you do decide to follow my suggestion and go with the chaff units, you won't need the Mounted Yeomen.

You're also planning on spreading your characters out far, far too much- this may be part of the reason you're running into problems. As Akaean mentioned, one of the biggest strengths of Brets is being able to fill the front rank of your unit with 3 T4 1+ re-rollable 5++ characters. As soon as you don't have this, your ordinary (and very squishy) knights can get attacks and will die in droves.

Rather than spread them out so much, I would suggest building towards one megalance, and then one supporting baby lance. For the megalance, I'd suggest 13 Knights Errant with the Standard of Discipline for the ld 10 general. In this unit then goes the Lord, BSB and another character I will suggest below. The Level 4 also sits in this unit to give them MR, and the Level 1 can as well if you want or she can go in the baby lance.

I'm suggesting Knights Errant over KotR because the difference from WS3 to WS4 is fairly irrelevant (you'll run over WS3 stuff anyway and they're only really there to add rank bonus and break Steadfast) and they're cheaper so you get more bodies in. I recommend 13 because when you stick 5 characters in there you get 18, which is the maximum size a lance formation can go and still fit it in your deployment zone. Having to take the ld test is a pain, but with the general and BSB in there you should be fine.

Having mentioned the 3rd character, here is the build I would suggest: Lance, armour, Dragonhelm, Luckstone, Virtue of the Impetuous Knight. As well as being another tanky character for the front rank of the megalance, the extra D6" charge is excellent. Most people with a clue will see it coming, but they still have to deal with it and until they do the megalance has a huge threat range.

I wouldn't bother with the archers.

The baby lance then can be 11 or so KotR, who can tag team along with the megalance if needs be. This is a good spot for your chaff Paladins to reside- they can add punch and tank hits, charge out on their own to solo chaff units or run out and redirect.

Out of interest, what's your reasoning behind the 4th Peg Knight? What does he let you fight that you can't already kill with 3?

 tmarichards wrote:
Your list is trying to go in too many different directions I think.

The Level 4 doesn't really need the Crown. If your lances are getting flanked or caught in bad combats, they will most likely not be able to grind their way out of combat and will just die regardless. Instead, I'd suggest giving her the Silver Mirror (double Scroll is awesome) and the Falcon Horn so that your opponent can be wrong-footed on a turn where they expected being able to block you off with their flyers. Also, what Lore is she using? Heavens is pretty much the best all round for Brets.

The Icon isn't really necessary in this list, as you've not built it towards doing the turn 1 Alpha Strike 33" charge. Instead, I would give her the Dispel Scroll.

Men at Arms are just generally quite poor. Those points could instead get you a whole host of other units, such as 2x5 chaff knights and 2 chaff Paladins.

You're also planning on spreading your characters out far, far too much- this may be part of the reason you're running into problems. As Akaean mentioned, one of the biggest strengths of Brets is being able to fill the front rank of your unit with 3 T4 1+ re-rollable 5++ characters. As soon as you don't have this, your ordinary (and very squishy) knights can get attacks and will die in droves.

Rather than spread them out so much, I would suggest building towards one megalance, and then one supporting baby lance. For the megalance, I'd suggest 13 Knights Errant with the Standard of Discipline for the ld 10 general. In this unit then goes the Lord, BSB and another character I will suggest below. The Level 4 also sits in this unit to give them MR, and the Level 1 can as well if you want or she can go in the baby lance.

I wouldn't bother with the archers.

I notice that you really do not like Peasants, which confuses me. The Prayer Icon + Men at Arms is an excellent combination, since it gifts our dirt cheap 5 point per model s4 (halbred) / t3 infantry with the Blessing of the Lady. The Prayer Icon comes into play because Men at Arms generally cannot get the Blessing Save- due to Peasants Duty, and the Prayer Icon skirts this limitation. Having a Horde of Infantry with the 6++/5++ while wielding Halbreds is undeniably Excellent- especially against high strength opponents. Men at Arms are one of the most consistant, and cost effective unit choices in our book, and while I agree that Knights are awesome, Men at Arms make for a much needed Anvil for our Knight units to work around.

You really should not just discount them because they do not Alpha Strike, the same can be said of a Stubborn Lance of Knights.

Regardless of how you look at it, against most units, knights are not going to "die in droves", they still all have a 2+ armour save, and a 6++/5++ from the blessing. Even if they are losing combat they can last fairly long- especially with the prophetess in the second rank. Bretonnian Tarpitting is different from a true Horde army's tarpit. We are not necessarily trying to grind the enemy down, but merely to hold them in place while our quick Knight Units maneuver around, and slam into the flanks.

What do you have against Peasant Archers? They make excellent deployment fodder, clocking in at a mere 65 points for a unit with flaming arrows, and free soft cover. Did I mention free soft cover, guess what, Fences stop cannon balls. There is no reason not to buy 10 Peasant Archers with Braizers just to park in front of your Trebuchets, and catch the first cannon balls with those free fences. You can also use them to scout your opponents deployment more before you start committing Knights, and Flaming Arrows can be nice to strip regeneration before you lob Rocks at something from the Trebuchets, they are also often able to snipe annoying things like Fanatics or Sabertusks before they can be too bothersome. Having some ranged attacks can help a lot when dealing with enemy redirectors.

Finally, I worry about the practicality of the Super Lance that you are advocating. It seems as though that list would either win huge, or just die instantly, the thing just screams to be hit with a Dwellers, and not only that you will get stopped cold by the Crown of Command on a platform you cannot kill quickly. The last thing you want is to smash into the heart of your opponents army, bounce off the crown of command, then get flanked to kingdom come by their supporting units. At the same time, if you aren't planning to smash directly into the heart of your opponent's army, then a lord, 2 paladins, and a damsel in the same unit is almost certainly over kill.