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I think it's more of because people are inclined to listen to a blog post on a reputable, well-known (within the community, that is) site such as BoK, as opposed to a forum post, despite the fact that both of them are merely opinion pieces. A blog post on such a site would appear to be "semi-official" and have a decent amount of truth within it (although whether this is actually the case is a completely different story), whereas forums can sometimes be full of trash talk. It's an image/appearance thing.

Yeah, I can definitely see your point on that. I guess the point I'm (clumsily) trying to make is that I'm surprised this got to this point at all.

 Enigwolf wrote:

Tycho wrote:

That's what all the fuss is about? Meh... I've seen more confrontational threads here on dakka than that blog post.

I was also surprised. It wasn't nearly as inflamatory (imo anyway) as the super aggressive C&D made it out to be. In trying to put myself in Romeo's shoes, I guess I can see where he could get upset about the prize support issues (assuming BoK really does have it wrong - we have no way of really knowing), but even that seems like it could have been much more easily handled by a simple email/IM/blog post ...

EDIT:

In fairness it's possible Romeo DID try to handle it without lawyers. Again, we have no way of knowing.

I think it's more of because people are inclined to listen to a blog post on a reputable, well-known (within the community, that is) site such as BoK, as opposed to a forum post, despite the fact that both of them are merely opinion pieces. A blog post on such a site would appear to be "semi-official" and have a decent amount of truth within it (although whether this is actually the case is a completely different story), whereas forums can sometimes be full of trash talk. It's an image/appearance thing.

I'm not sure I'd consider TT THAT reputable. He has some good stuff up there at times, but he's been a real Troll in the past. I remember that on some of the opinion pieces he posted on the old site layout with the comments section, it was often more interesting to read the 'RAGE' output in the comments than the article!

This isn't the only article he's posted about BF in general and Romeo personally IIRC either.

Just opining...

bginer wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

Tycho wrote:

That's what all the fuss is about? Meh... I've seen more confrontational threads here on dakka than that blog post.

I was also surprised. It wasn't nearly as inflamatory (imo anyway) as the super aggressive C&D made it out to be. In trying to put myself in Romeo's shoes, I guess I can see where he could get upset about the prize support issues (assuming BoK really does have it wrong - we have no way of really knowing), but even that seems like it could have been much more easily handled by a simple email/IM/blog post ...

EDIT:

In fairness it's possible Romeo DID try to handle it without lawyers. Again, we have no way of knowing.

I think it's more of because people are inclined to listen to a blog post on a reputable, well-known (within the community, that is) site such as BoK, as opposed to a forum post, despite the fact that both of them are merely opinion pieces. A blog post on such a site would appear to be "semi-official" and have a decent amount of truth within it (although whether this is actually the case is a completely different story), whereas forums can sometimes be full of trash talk. It's an image/appearance thing.

I'm not sure I'd consider TT THAT reputable. He has some good stuff up there at times, but he's been a real Troll in the past. I remember that on some of the opinion pieces he posted on the old site layout with the comments section, it was often more interesting to read the 'RAGE' output in the comments than the article!

This isn't the only article he's posted about BF in general and Romeo personally IIRC either.

Just opining...

I agree. But as I said, it's an image/appearance thing. If you don't know the history, you'd think otherwise.

New little update from the court page.

Looks like the court registry has an issue with the service on Ms Jane Doe not being done correctly:

06/06/2013 SERVICE ON JANE DOE HAYDEN IS QUESTIONABLE FOR THE FOLLOWING REASON: BOX MARKED IS PERSONAL SERVICE BUT IT IS NOT


(Service issues basically just mean delays, its just sloppy paperwork)

So now that the sworn statements are out and we have some of the players named is Jane Doe Hayden the only mystery person left?

This isn't the only article he's posted about BF in general and Romeo personally IIRC either.

Having gone through a lot of BoK since this thing started I found several other articles about BF on that site. They were largely positive.

So now that the sworn statements are out and we have some of the players named is Jane Doe Hayden the only mystery person left?

That's what it sounds like to me. I'd be curious to see who this actually is.

All the filings now on Blood of Kittens.

Ouch after reading the filings I'm not sure what BF can really claim. It is pretty damning and it backs up most of the article. I thought the BF claims were weak to begin with but to be able to back up the claims just seems to leave them completely dead in the water.

Do BF actually have any realistic options from this position?

This does not look very good...

Best part of the filings so far: A TMP thread on p. 65 of Tucker's (Randazza's clerk) declaration.

bsrlee wrote:Maybe they look similar after several passes thru' Babbelfish or one of the other on-­line translation services? The ones that change 'Throat-­Warbler-­Mangrove' into 'Luxury Yacht'.

Maybe this discussion will make it into the court records to show how ridiculous most people think this is?

I'm not sure of the legal impact of the filings but from a lay person, those look to be pretty rough reflections---specifically, Brandt's story.

After Listening to 40K Radio Ep60 again, I wonder if BattleFoam can porve in a court of law the guy who post defamority stickers of BattleFoam is indeed BoK, as they claimed in the podcast.

The BoK filings seems be to be solid with lots of well know guys in the 40k community backing BoK's claims.

wufai wrote:


The BoK filings seems be to be solid with lots of well know guys in the 40k community backing BoK's claims.

It does read pretty much like a Who's Who of the major tournament(save Adepticon) organizers/sponsors for the US.

wufai wrote:
After Listening to 40K Radio Ep60 again, I wonder if BattleFoam can porve in a court of law the guy who post defamority stickers of BattleFoam is indeed BoK, as they claimed in the podcast.

The BoK filings seems be to be solid with lots of well know guys in the 40k community backing BoK's claims.

I wouldn't put it past Romeo to have done that himself.

At one time in this thread or the other, people questions why people are defending BoK. After reading the filings made public we can justify said defense of BoK. From what I've read I was right in the assumption of prize support/sponsorship being the main link for these folks.
After reading Brandts filing, I think that may have been the nail in the coffin. With Baer's filing being able to back it up, just does not help Romeo at all.


Question that may be a tad off topic: If the findings of this suit goes in favor of BoK/Hayden, do you think there will be repercussions nationwide at events to limit BF or not even offer vendor relations?

Streisand effect indeed. These affidavits are not pretty.

I can't help but think this is a major self-inflicted injury regardless of how the case goes, an enormous unforced error. Exactly the kind of publicity you don't want when a major chunk of your business is essentially at the whims of a fickle and litigious larger company.

 Ouze wrote:
Streisand effect indeed. These affidavits are not pretty.

I can't help but think this is a major self-inflicted injury regardless of how the case goes, an enormous unforced error. Exactly the kind of publicity you don't want when a major chunk of your business is essentially at the whims of a fickle and litigious larger company.

Wow. Just wow, some of those affidavits. A whole lot of other charges could potentially be brought to court against Romeo I think?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One thing to take note of in the affidavits is that multiple of them make claims to Romeo being a "public figure". Romeo has claimed that the blog post was tortious/slanderous; in US law, an exception is granted to public figures (i.e. celebrities or politicians, for example) where they cannot claim that a tortious/slanderous act was held towards them. By having multiple testimonies that Romeo is a public figure/well-knonw in the community, it is providing basis for him not being able to use the law of torts.

I wonder if what pushed romeo over the edge was BoK handing out Battlefoam sucks stickers to folks at adepticon.

 Warboss Gubbinz wrote:
I wonder if what pushed romeo over the edge was BoK handing out Battlefoam sucks stickers to folks at adepticon.

Do you know for a fact that BoK was the one handing out those stickers? Just curious and looking for confirmation......

 Warboss Gubbinz wrote:
I wonder if what pushed romeo over the edge was BoK handing out Battlefoam sucks stickers to folks at adepticon.

Would you be able to back this claim in a court of law, that BoK is indeed the person handout out these stickers?

These filings are eye opening indeed. Two things I couldn't fault Romeo/Battlefoam's business sense for were quality products and ingratiating himself and his products with gaming web personalities like TOs/website owners/mods/bloggers by making sure they're very happy with their orders.

After reading the material TT posted...

Did Romeo think the bait and switch was ok or yelling at somebody's mom was acceptable behavior especially when you are acting in a personal context?

Assuming the people's statements are true, then Romeo did these things. So, does that mean he thinks this is ok behavior? Since he repeats the same behavior, most likely these aren't isolated examples and are indicative of his SOP.

I assume Romeo's line of thinking was something like:
"If I send a C&D letter to TT, he will remove the post, which is what I want."

TT pushed back and has some evidence that the blog post is somewhat based on fact.

I'm not sure what Romeo best option is. Maybe he says something like: "I get passionate about my business and I've made some mistakes in the past. From this point on, I'll stop haggling with competitive players and organizers about prize support".

evancich wrote:
After reading the material TT posted...

Did Romeo think the bait and switch was ok or yelling at somebody's mom was acceptable behavior especially when you are acting in a personal context?

Assuming the people's statements are true, then Romeo did these things. So, does that mean he thinks this is ok behavior? Since he repeats the same behavior, most likely these aren't isolated examples and are indicative of his SOP.

I assume Romeo's line of thinking was something like:
"If I send a C&D letter to TT, he will remove the post, which is what I want."

TT pushed back and has some evidence that the blog post is somewhat based on fact.

I'm not sure what Romeo best option is. Maybe he says something like: "I get passionate about my business and I've made some mistakes in the past. From this point on, I'll stop haggling with competitive players and organizers about prize support".

Yelling at someone in public, especially the event organizer, moreso if it was a woman, is simply not okay. It just goes to demonstrate immaturity and unprofessionalism. Before this case, I was going to buy Battlefoam, and then I decided to hold off on it because of the court case. After reading that one affidavit, I've decided that I will not support nor buy any products of a person who thinks it's okay to yell at or physically manhandle a woman publicly until she's in tears. That's just not cool. This is really Streisand effect; the affidavits were pretty damning and they paint him in a really bad light. At this point in time, I think Romeo's best option is to offer a public apology to the community, and personally apologize to those individuals he had tried to dupe/manipulate and offended.

Those affidavits are just brutal. Brilliant case of the Streissand effect. The original blog post might have been ignored by some people, or dismissed as BS, but with those sworn statements, I think the evidence is pretty damning. Manhandling an event organiser, berating her until she cries? Really mature, just like the several times he's apparently used the bait and switch tactic for prize support.

Enigwolf wrote: One thing to take note of in the affidavits is that multiple of them make claims to Romeo being a "public figure". Romeo has claimed that the blog post was tortious/slanderous; in US law, an exception is granted to public figures (i.e. celebrities or politicians, for example) where they cannot claim that a tortious/slanderous act was held towards them. By having multiple testimonies that Romeo is a public figure/well-knonw in the community, it is providing basis for him not being able to use the law of torts.

Good point. I wonder how the courts would view the case then.

Another thing I noticed was in the second e-mail to BoK, the lawyers claimed that the losses incurred due to the blog post were quantifiable, and at around $2,000 per day. How on earth could they have worked that out?

I have to say, it's really not looking good for Romeo.

I had wondered why events like the 11th Co. GT didn't have Battlefoam as a sponsor. Now I know.

At this point Romeo should retire from being the public face of Battlefoam. He built a solid business from the ground up, but unfortunately he has now also built a substantial amount of ill will mostly directed at him personally and not the product. He should hire a professional public relations type to be the face in the videos and deal with events. A public mea culpa should be the first step too.

-Shrike- wrote:
Those affidavits are just brutal. Brilliant case of the Streissand effect. The original blog post might have been ignored by some people, or dismissed as BS, but with those sworn statements, I think the evidence is pretty damning. Manhandling an event organiser, berating her until she cries? Really mature, just like the several times he's apparently used the bait and switch tactic for prize support.

Streisand effect indeed, the NOVA incident is something I wish I'd know about prior to my last (which it literally will be) BF order from last year, I'd have gone with one of their competitors instead. That kind of behavior is simply intolerable in today's society, and for all the talk about handling things old school, he may want to research what the "Old school" solution to putting your hands on a woman is (merely an observation on the irony of previous statements). I can look past internet tough guy acts, and trying to be the Edison of foam, because the non-Romeo people from BF I've interacted with have been stand up people, with good customer service skills but that is just something that is so far past okay, that it makes me sick thinking I ever gave that person my business.

As to the testimonials about being a public figure, I think it was said early on by one of the lawyer types that the slander case would be hard to prove exactly because of the fact that Romeo is a very public figure within the community, and that those are legal statements to pertaining to that. You can categorize many well known members of the community (like those that submitted the affidavits) as public figures I'm sure.

I'd like to have Romeo answer some questions:

1) Please explain why you believe GW's AUS pricing strategy is fair to the Australians?

2) Would you accept (from your foam customers) a promise to pay in cash, but after you shipped the trays / bags to them they change the deal and offer you coupons instead?

3) How about your customers show up and manhandle your employees and get them to cry, does that help the transaction?

I really wish that civility and "do on to others ..." would become en vogue again in society. I'm old enough to remember (and have made large deals) based on somebody's word and a handshake.

Romeo did a podcast segment (I don't remember which podcast it was on) where he talked about being honorable and not attacking somebody's business. Based on the affidavits, I guess that doesn't apply to his business deals and interactions.

 Arschbombe wrote:
He should hire a professional public relations type to be the face in the videos and deal with events. A public mea culpa should be the first step too.

After the Infinity forums RomeoRage incident, he did publicly apologize and then try to eliminate all evidence of the event occurring. As for the other incidents, it'd be tremendously disingenuous to only apologize for everything after being undeniably caught both legally and socially; note that up until now, his response has been to aggressively deny any allegations in a legal threat, 40k Radio accusations, and by releasing the sockpuppets.

As for public PR, that's what all these one-shot sockpuppets that keep crawling out of the woodwork are doing. Mention Romeo three times in a forum and someone will register a new account to tell you how much of an amazing guy he is. He stated on 40kRadio that he encourages all listeners to go register on forums and such and defend the Battlefoams.

Romeo sees himself as an old-fashioned businessman. He is the face of the business, and that's the way he built it. With his reaches into O-12 Broadcast, 40kRadio, and WWE, it's unlikely he has any plans to downplay his personal celebrity anytime soon. He's built up too much just to let it all fall.

 Absolutionis wrote:
Romeo sees himself as an old-fashioned businessman. He is the face of the business, and that's the way he built it. With his reaches into O-12 Broadcast, 40kRadio, and WWE, it's unlikely he has any plans to downplay his personal celebrity anytime soon. He's built up too much just to let it all fall.

I'd love to see Romeo in a wrestling ring - can we set Brock Lesnar on him?

Wow. Some of those details that are coming out are even worse than what Blood of Kittens wrote. It's crazy how this is turning out!