Update on BoK v Battle Foam - settled out of court - starts on pg 18

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**kronk**

The next thing we'll see will be Romeo's filings, I believe. Until then, unless Romeo, Tasty Taste, or some other person involved posts some stuff, we're in speculation mode.

Also, people really need to stop saying "Don't Drink the Kool Aide". Seriously. The powdered drink mix used at Jonestown was Flavor-Aide. Leave the fething Kool-Aide man alone!

"Oh yeah!"

**Enigwolf**

What's actually happening in Arizona? I thought this was localized to California what with their anti-SLAPP and all?

**kronk**

I believe that Romeo/BF is wanting to have the case seen in Arizona instead of California. I don't think anything been decided, yet.

Either side can request a change in venue, but it's up to the court to grant or deny one.

(IANAL)

**MickeyP2K**

Well cheers guys ill be sure to pop back in a few days to see the update.

Picture of hobby time is off topic

Edited by AgeOfEgos

Edit @AgeOfEgos apologies for an OT lightening of the mood... I'll be sure to avoid OT posts and inform you o any I spot. Keep up the good work guys.

**Enigwolf**

kronk wrote:
I believe that Romeo/BF is wanting to have the case seen in Arizona instead of California. I don't think anything been decided, yet.

Either side can request a change in venue, but it's up to the court to grant or deny one.

(IANAL)

Oh, I see. Romeo wants the state of Arizona to take jurisdiction since he is based in Arizona, and the offense was "committed" against him. For those unfamiliar with what it does, it's a technicality usually used for lowering costs by having your opposition come to you instead of you going to them. But in this case, if the case goes to Arizona, it will prevent BoK from using California's Anti-SLAPP (strategic lawsuit against public participation) statutes. The Anti-SLAPP statute in California weighs the case heavily in BoK's favor as it stops all discovery (obtaining evidence) from happening and puts the ball in Romeo's court (hur hur hur, punny) to prove their case having legal merit rather than being used as a "weapon" or a form of harassment. Therefore, Romeo's going out and talking smack, if taken into court, would work against him.

**AgeOfEgos**

Janthkin wrote:
You guys have been wandering all over the place for the past few pages. Back on topic, please.

This warning was only a page back--please stay on topic.

**carboncopy**

MickeyP2K wrote:
So anyone know the next date where we might actually know something other than hear say, yabbering, boo hoo and "kool-aid"?

And am I not correct in saying that no matter who wins the legal system in either state means it's just a legal decision? I mean realistically reading some of the opinions here it really doesn't matter if Romeo wins for some does it? And even if he decided not to nail Nick to the wall out of kindness or otherwise then a small number (and lets face it there really is only a handful of 'dissenters' here compared to the total number of active members on Dakka and the wider gaming community at large) will immediately claim it proof of whatever your hearts desire anyway. Doh! Don't you just love legal situations!

That reminds me I must buy some kool-aid I hear it's awesome! Although I have yet to work out what it is but it sounds like I'll enjoy it.

Stay classy peeps.

Mickey 'Cant wait to buy a new 720 in blue and put a white World Eaters chevron on it' P

I'm sure the next thing we will see is when Romeo puts forward his paperwork. Then we can see what affidavits, if any, he has for his side.

You're right, after the legal battle, no matter the outcome, no side will most likely sway the other. Each side will still assert the other side is wrong and/or a bunch of liars. Kind of makes it pointless doesn't it? And a big waste of time and money. I'm hoping the first amendment wins.

I'm not sure what you mean by "dissenters". Is there a club? More than anything, there's just consumers, who have a wide degree of opinions, and those opinions fall across a spectrum. There have been a number of people speaking in support of the events in the article, some of them big names (in our little industry), that evidence is going to be hard to deny, especially since it comes from a number of sources and not one club or one conspiracy. We'll see what affidavits Romeo has, and get another set of perspectives.

**kronk**

Enigwolf wrote:
kronk wrote:
I believe that Romeo/BF is wanting to have the case seen in Arizona instead of California. I don't think anything been decided, yet.

Either side can request a change in venue, but it's up to the court to grant or deny one.

(IANAL)

Oh, I see. Romeo wants the state of Arizona to take jurisdiction since he is based in Arizona, and the offense was "committed" against him. For those unfamiliar with what it does, it's a technicality usually used for lowering costs by having your opposition come to you instead of you going to them. But in this case, if the case goes to Arizona, it will prevent BoK from using California's Anti-SLAPP (strategic lawsuit against public participation) statutes. The Anti-SLAPP statute in California weighs the case heavily in BoK's favor as it stops all discovery (obtaining evidence) from happening and puts the ball in Romeo's court (hur hur hur, punny) to prove their case having legal merit rather than being used as a "weapon" or a form of harassment. Therefore, Romeo's going out and talking smack, if taken into court, would work against him.

Every lawyer ever is going to attempt to move the court to a more favorable location, either travel-wise, pro/anti [insert legal standing] state, and so on. That's just being a good lawyer.

**Enigwolf**

kronk wrote:
Enigwolf wrote:
kronk wrote:
I believe that Romeo/BF is wanting to have the case seen in Arizona instead of California. I don't think anything been decided, yet.

Either side can request a change in venue, but it's up to the court to grant or deny one.

(IANAL)

Oh, I see. Romeo wants the state of Arizona to take jurisdiction since he is based in Arizona, and the offense was "committed" against him. For those unfamiliar with what it does, it's a technicality usually used for lowering costs by having your opposition come to you instead of you going to them. But in this case, if the case goes to Arizona, it will prevent BoK from using California's Anti-SLAPP (strategic lawsuit against public participation) statutes. The Anti-SLAPP statute in California weighs the case heavily in BoK's favor as it stops all discovery (obtaining evidence) from happening and puts the ball in Romeo's court (hur hur hur, punny) to prove their case having legal merit rather than being used as a "weapon" or a form of harassment. Therefore, Romeo's going out and talking smack, if taken into court, would work against him.

Every lawyer ever is going to attempt to move the court to a more favorable location, either travel-wise, pro/anti [insert legal standing] state, and so on. That's just being a good lawyer.

Correct. I was just pointing out the finer nuances of the benefit it gives Romeo, for those who didn't really understand why he wants to do that.

**MickeyP2K**

carboncopy wrote:
MickeyP2K wrote:
So anyone know the next date where we might actually know something other than hear say, yabbering, boo hoo and "kool-aid"?

And am I not correct in saying that no matter who wins the legal system in either state means it's just a legal decision? I mean realistically reading some of the opinions here it really doesn't matter if Romeo wins for some does it? And even if he decided not to nail Nick to the wall out of kindness or otherwise then a small number (and lets face it there really is only a handful of 'dissenters' here compared to the total number of active members on Dakka and the wider gaming community at large) will immediately claim it proof of whatever your hearts desire anyway. Doh! Don't you just love legal situations!

That reminds me I must buy some kool-aid I hear it's awesome! Although I have yet to work out what it is but it sounds like I'll enjoy it.

Stay classy peeps.

Mickey 'Cant wait to buy a new 720 in blue and put a white World Eaters chevron on it' P

I'm sure the next thing we will see is when Romeo puts forward his paperwork. Then we can see what affidavits, if any, he has for his side.

You're right, after the legal battle, no matter the outcome, no side will most likely sway the other. Each side will still assert the other side is wrong and/or a bunch of liars. Kind of makes it pointless doesn't it? And a big waste of time and money. I'm hoping the first amendment wins.

I'm not sure what you mean by "dissenters". Is there a club? More than anything, there's just consumers, who have a wide degree of opinions, and those opinions fall across a spectrum. There have been a number of people speaking in support of the events in the article, some of them big names (in our little industry), that evidence is going to be hard to deny, especially since it comes from a number of sources and not one club or one conspiracy. We'll see what affidavits Romeo has, and get another set of perspectives.

Yes it truly does suck, shame Nick decided to go legal rather than open a dialogue. Ditto on the first amendment for cases where it's relevant.

I don't think any evidence is hard to deny but it might be hard for some of the community to swallow that a good story is just that... A story, how ever much they wish to believe it (of course I appreciate you could return that right back at me

).

Soo... What colour 720 will you be buying?

**Absolutionis**

It seems the topic discussing the court case over on the WWX forums was deleted.

**rigeld2**

MickeyP2K wrote:
Yes it truly does suck, shame Nick decided to go legal rather than open a dialogue.

You mean Romeo right? Nick testified that the first thing he heard was the C&D and the denial of an extension.

**MickeyP2K**

rigeld2 wrote:
MickeyP2K wrote:
Yes it truly does suck, shame Nick decided to go legal rather than open a dialogue.

You mean Romeo right? Nick testified that the first thing he heard was the C&D and the denial of an extension.

No I mean Nick. But hey before I get drawn back in I'm off to discuss hobby and gaming an forget about this until we have more info in public domain for y'all to mull over.

**czakk**

MickeyP2K wrote:

Yes it truly does suck, shame Nick decided to go legal rather than open a dialogue.

Hrmmm

6. I received an April 1, 2013 letter from attorneys representing Romeo Filip and Battle Foam, LLC. The letter alleged that statements I made within the article were defamatory and demanded that I immediately remove the article and any other material referencing Mr. Filip, Battle Foam, and/or Outlaw Miniatures regardless of whether the statements were true. The letter also demanded that I post a notarized letter (drafted by Mr. Filip or his attorneys) and I pay $2,500 in legal fees. The letter demanded that I take all of these actions by April 8, 2013, or Filip would file a lawsuit against me. I have attached a copy of the letter hereto as Exhibit A.

7. Neither Mr. Filip, nor his attorneys ever contacted me by telephone, e-mail, or in any other manner before sending the letter threatening litigation. The lawyers never pointed to specific statements that they believed to be defamatory. Nor could I determine which statements they believed were defamatory because their recharacterization of my statements did not match what I had written.

8. Wishing to obtain counsel before I took any action in response to the letter, I sent an e-mail on April 5, 2013 requesting an extension of time to respond. I received a letter in response flatly denying my request. I have attached a copy of the second letter from Filip’s attorneys as Exhibit B.

Now there are two sides to every story and I'm looking forward to reading Mr. Filip's sworn version of events. So far the one we've got in front of us points to one side hiring a lawyer first and issuing an ultimatum.

**rigeld2**

MickeyP2K wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
MickeyP2K wrote:
Yes it truly does suck, shame Nick decided to go legal rather than open a dialogue.

You mean Romeo right? Nick testified that the first thing he heard was the C&D and the denial of an extension.

No I mean Nick. But hey before I get drawn back in I'm off to discuss hobby and gaming an forget about this until we have more info in public domain for y'all to mull over.

So the fact that he testified, under penalty of perjury, that he was not contacted prior to the C&D means, well - the opposite to you? That's odd.

**Alpharius**

I'm starting to wonder about MickeyP2K, and his constant "720" shout-outs too!

**Agamemnon2**

MickeyP2K wrote:
And even if he decided not to nail Nick to the wall out of kindness or otherwise then a small number (and lets face it there really is only a handful of 'dissenters' here compared to the total number of active members on Dakka and the wider gaming community at large) will immediately claim it proof of whatever your hearts desire anyway.

Romeo already has "nailed Nick to the wall". His original demand was harsh and unreasonable and he has never been interested in any kind of compromise. I have never seen him exhibit any kind of kindness.

I also have a hard time framing "it's a shame he didn't open a dialogue" as anything other than "It's a shame he wrote the article in the first place", given what evidence we have in the form of the materials presented. There was never any time to have a dialogue in, nor a willingness from Battlefoam to do anything other than dictate terms. Going to court to defend yourself against such an aggressively litigious company is an act of self-preservation, not the rude aggression you wish to construe it as. The argument that Nick could have done something to avoid this after his original article is ludicrous. It's like berating a man wrestling a bear for resorting to violence.

Alpharius wrote:
I'm starting to wonder about MickeyP2K, and his constant "720" shout-outs too!

One does wonder. Ironically, Romeo himself played the clueless newbie who's stumbled onto the product when BF first showed up on Dakka.

**Alfndrate**

Mickey, thanks for taking a step back out of this discussion as you seemingly are playing the, "I know something you don't know" game and frankly it's not helping us, as people interested in this case.

We have signed, legally verified documents of the defendant stating under the penalty of law that his statements are true, whereas from Romeo we have... nothing, except words from you that Nick isn't lying.

**Alpharius**

Alfndrate wrote:
... whereas from Romeo we have... nothing, except words from you that Nick isn't lying.

Huh?

I think you meant the opposite?

**jah-joshua**

MickeyP2K wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
MickeyP2K wrote:
Yes it truly does suck, shame Nick decided to go legal rather than open a dialogue.

You mean Romeo right? Nick testified that the first thing he heard was the C&D and the denial of an extension.

No I mean Nick. But hey before I get drawn back in I'm off to discuss hobby and gaming an forget about this until we have more info in public domain for y'all to mull over.

nice...
way to dip out on that one...

Nick didn't have a choice but to file against BF, or else he would have had to come up with $2,500 in a week to just throw at Romeo...
Romeo filed the C&D, and chose to incure the lawyer fees, yet expected Nick to pay...

as of now, the ball is in Romeo's court...
what we have are sworn statements by the event organizers...
until BF comes back with their statements, these are the only bits of legal evidence on the table...
are the TO's going to lie in court over $2500 and a few internet articles, when they have their own futures to worry about???
i highly doubt it...

cheers
jah

**kronk**

Alpharius wrote:
I'm starting to wonder about MickeyP2K, and his constant "720" shout-outs too!

For what it's worth, MickeyP2K is not a Romeo sock puppet, as was alluded to earlier in this thread.. He's a regular poster on the 40k Radio forums. BF has a few new colors of 720s coming out this fall, and he's probably excited about it. I certainly like the blue one for my Crimson Fists and Disciples of Horus (both painted blue), but I'm not in the market for a new gaming bag right now.

**Cyporiean**

kronk wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
I'm starting to wonder about MickeyP2K, and his constant "720" shout-outs too!

For what it's worth, MickeyP2K is not a Romeo sock puppet, as was alluded to earlier in this thread.. He's a regular poster on the 40k Radio forums. BF has a few new colors of 720s coming out this fall, and he's probably excited about it. I certainly like the blue one for my Crimson Fists and Disciples of Horus (both painted blue), but I'm not in the market for a new gaming bag right now.

Outrider Hobbies has had Blue and Red bags for quite some time, cheaper and more easily attained foam sizes.

**kronk**

That's cool.

But I think we're veering off topic.

**MickeyP2K**

Oh okay one last one... you got me

. The thing is that until Romeo posts his documents there isn't much more to say so before you read anything more into my comments or try to twist my love of awesome army protecting products made by BattleFoam you will just have to accept I am awesome at 40k. Nothing more, nothing less

And for the record... Sock puppets are frikin cool! My daughters have them. So quit with your sock puppetism! They have feelings too!

**Alfndrate**

MickeyP2K wrote:
Oh okay one last one... you got me . The thing is that until Romeo posts his documents there isn't much more to say so before you read anything more into my comments or try to twist my love of awesome army protecting products made by BattleFoam you will just have to accept I am awesome at 40k. Nothing more, nothing less

No one has twisted your words for a few pages now (until it was assumed and then proven false that you were a sock puppet). We get it, you love Battlefoam, no one is claiming that it's a gak product. But you seem to know more about this case than we do, so please help enlighten us with something that's more than "he said, she said." We have eye witnesses testifying under penalty of perjury. If all of these declarations are lying, then many people have just put themselves in hot water legally. WHY WOULD ANYONE DO THAT?

**carboncopy**

Trying to bring this back inline....So what guesses do we have for affidavits or other statements on Romeo's side? Here's what I gathered so far:

*We maybe have the Tattoo Guy
*Mickey alluded that although he doesn't have any info, might be vouching for Romeo's character (being the 40kradio forum moderator).
*Kyle of Battlefoam
*Possibly Jason Flanzer in regards to Duelcon (was mentioned by Kyle)

Anyone else have more possibilities to add?

**Alfndrate**

I would think that Tattoo Guy would be someone Romeo wouldn't want, unless of course the issue between TG and Romeo was resolved amicably and without the issue that was in Nick's article.

**Alpharius**

I never said, or really thought, that he was Romeo's...Sock Puppet.

It does help illustrate that this case really will come down to one side's word vs. the other's though.

Not sure how that will all get sorted out.

Will each side's "Character" be called into question, analyzed, torn apart, etc.?

**carboncopy**

Alfndrate wrote:
I would think that Tattoo Guy would be someone Romeo wouldn't want, unless of course the issue between TG and Romeo was resolved amicably and without the issue that was in Nick's article.

Kyle said on 40kradio that the Tattoo guy was buddies with them. Or at least Facebook friends and Con friends.

I imagine there was some guffaw about it at first, but ended up resolving amicably.

**Tycho**

Trying to bring this back inline....So what guesses do we have for affidavits or other statements on Romeo's side? Here's what I gathered so far:

*We maybe have the Tattoo Guy
*Mickey alluded that although he doesn't have any info, might be vouching for Romeo's character (being the 40kradio forum moderator).
*Kyle of Battlefoam
*Possibly Jason Flanzer in regards to Duelcon (was mentioned by Kyle)

Anyone else have more possibilities to add?

I can't think of any additional names to add, but from the last podcast, Kyle basically said his affidavit would basically refute all of the other affidavits which should be interesting. Either way (and assuming Kyle DOES file an affidavit) it really doesn't look like either side has much more than he said/she said and I'm wondering how a Civil Court deals with that. Do the more legally minded Dakkites among us have any insight on that?