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 Absolutionis wrote:
; he created a new company as a sort of 'clean slate' to distance his product from his reputation.

Speculation.

He could very well just be keeping the LLC's separate as the WWX has other partners involved helping with rules, sculpts, etc.

 kronk wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:
; he created a new company as a sort of 'clean slate' to distance his product from his reputation.

Speculation.

He could very well just be keeping the LLC's separate as the WWX has other partners involved helping with rules, sculpts, etc.

Agreed. It is a separate endeavor so why wouldn't it be a separate LLC. That is just good basic business sense and the one thing Romeo cannot be accused of is being stupid - a lack of control over his temper and vindictive nature yes, stupid no.

There are many good business reasons to set up a separate company for a separate business.


----

Back on topic:

It looks like the case in California has been assigned to a judge now:

"06/24/2013 STIPULATION & ORDER RE BRIEFING SCHEDULE SENT TO LAUREL S. BRADY "

http://www.cccba.org/attorney/judicial-profiles/brady-laurel.php

Federal Court still wants nothing to do with the case.

That's good because it isn't a Federal case.

czakk wrote:
Federal Court still wants nothing to do with the case.

Wait, I'm confused. I thought Romeo wanted to bring it to Federal Court? Is it just me or does that document read that BoK wanted it to go to Federal Court?

 Enigwolf wrote:

czakk wrote:
Federal Court still wants nothing to do with the case.

Wait, I'm confused. I thought Romeo wanted to bring it to Federal Court? Is it just me or does that document read that BoK wanted it to go to Federal Court?

Mr. Hayden was trying to move the lawsuit in Arizona from state court to federal court. We have no indication whether or not the plaintiffs opposed the move.

Side note, Arizona's federal court declared a judicial emergency (just after their Chief Judge was shot by Jared Loughner) and they are short a number of judges (4 or 5 I think). Busy, likely overworked and not a lot of time to wade through filings. I don't know how many kicks at the cat you get trying for diversity jurisdiction but if there is another filing it will probably mention in big bold letters that Mr. Filip is a member of Battle Foam LLC in the first paragraph.

czakk wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

czakk wrote:
Federal Court still wants nothing to do with the case.

Wait, I'm confused. I thought Romeo wanted to bring it to Federal Court? Is it just me or does that document read that BoK wanted it to go to Federal Court?

Mr. Hayden was trying to move the lawsuit in Arizona from state court to federal court. We have no indication whether or not the plaintiffs opposed the move.

Side note, Arizona's federal court declared a judicial emergency (just after their Chief Judge was shot by Jared Loughner) and they are short a number of judges (4 or 5 I think). Busy, likely overworked and not a lot of time to wade through filings. I don't know how many kicks at the cat you get trying for diversity jurisdiction but if there is another filing it will probably mention in big bold letters that Mr. Filip is a member of Battle Foam LLC in the first paragraph.

IIRC, all Obama's judicial appointments to Arizona federal courts have been blocked for over two years at the moment. By blocked, I mean not even allowed a hearing because of the Arizona federal senators. I suppose this sort of thing is where the rubber meets the road on the issue.

Boom
Settled...
Way to go BF...

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2013/06/28/network-news-blood-kittens-v-battleform-settled/

Blood of Kittens and Battlefoam have come to terms to settle out of court their current legal disputs.

The following is a joint statement from both parties.

The Parties have jointly concluded that open public debate best serves their own interests and, more importantly, those of the community. Accordingly, the Parties have worked together to amicably resolve their legal dispute. Because unknown facts came to the attention of the Parties and because the Parties are unbiased professionals, the Parties assign no fault to one another. The Parties request that the miniature war gaming community respect their concerted decision to move on and join the Parties in unifying miniature war gamers everywhere. In recognition of the Parties’ attorneys, who assisted the Parties in resolving their disputes, the Parties are making a joint donation to the Online Media Legal Network.

I ask everyone to respect both parties’ decision to end this whole affair. I also want to thank everyone for all their support through out this process, with special mention to the OMLN Network and my lawyers for making my defense possible.

Link to the OMLN: http://www.omln.org/aboutus

... That was an interesting outcome. Glad it occured though! Good on them all for donating to the OMLN!

Haha what an anti climax

Hayden and Battle Foam Update

The Parties have jointly concluded that open public debate best serves their own interests and, more importantly, those of the community. Accordingly, the Parties have worked together to amicably resolve their legal dispute. Because unknown facts came to the attention of the Parties and because the Parties are unbiased professionals, the Parties assign no fault to one another. The Parties request that the miniature war gaming community respect their concerted decision to move on and join the Parties in unifying miniature war gamers everywhere. In recognition of the Parties? attorneys, who assisted the Parties in resolving their disputes, the Parties are making a joint donation to the Online Media Legal Network.

For Battle Foam's article click here (Battle Foam Official Response]. http://www.battlefoam.com/MutualAgreement.html
http://www.40kradio.com

For Hayden's article click here [www.bloodofkittens.com].

Declarations of

Romeo Filip http://www.battlefoam.com/Romeo_Filip.pdf
Carl Short http://www.battlefoam.com/Carl_Short.pdf
Jama Filip http://www.battlefoam.com/Jama_Filip.pdf
Jason Flanzer http://www.battlefoam.com/Jason_Flanzer.pdf
Carl Smith http://www.battlefoam.com/Carl_Smith.pdf
Thomas Schadle http://www.battlefoam.com/Thomas_Schadle.pdf
Reece Robbins http://www.battlefoam.com/Reece_Robbins.pdf
Kip Parcell http://www.battlefoam.com/Kip_Parcell.pdf
William Anderson http://www.battlefoam.com/William_Anderson.pdf
Kiran Salih http://www.battlefoam.com/Kiran_Salih.pdf
Kyle Kinghorn http://www.battlefoam.com/Kyle_Kinghorn.pdf

So typical he-said/she-said, and with settling nobody has to worry about their statements being challenged in open court.

Is there an open record of the settlement agreement or was there an agreement to keep it sealed?

It may be best to close the thread at this point, since both parties wish to move on.

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
It may be best to close the thread at this point, since both parties wish to move on.

The Auld Grump

Probably so. But one could also argue that since they value public open debate it would make sense for it to remain open.

I was just wondering if there was a joint agreement between the parties that could serve as a final footnote if it is on official paper. That would make a nice closure.

Reading the articles above, I think Battle Foam was never in the wrong. Romeo may have a hot temper when it comes to something he is passionate about, but I haven't met a marine that isn't hot tempered about something he is passionate about (if you ever met my brother and started talking about treating patients you would pray he was your nurse because he would do everything in his power to make sure you got the best care possible as he would argue until he was blue in the face if the doctor wasn't timely or responsive). What you may think of as bad business practices are actually real business practices. If you have an agreement in place you honor it. It doesn't appear that Battle Foam has done anything wrong and by judging the reaction from the community when looking at these forums as evidence, he needed to go to court to settle the matter because he obviously had to get his side of the story out there.

boyd wrote:
Reading the articles above, I think Battle Foam was never in the wrong. Romeo may have a hot temper when it comes to something he is passionate about, but I haven't met a marine that isn't hot tempered about something he is passionate about (if you ever met my brother and started talking about treating patients you would pray he was your nurse because he would do everything in his power to make sure you got the best care possible as he would argue until he was blue in the face if the doctor wasn't timely or responsive). What you may think of as bad business practices are actually real business practices. If you have an agreement in place you honor it. It doesn't appear that Battle Foam has done anything wrong and by judging the reaction from the community when looking at these forums as evidence, he needed to go to court to settle the matter because he obviously had to get his side of the story out there.

I dunno, all the depositions he posted say pretty much the opposite of what the BoK depositions say, so if anything, the matter is far from settled as those depositions tell a completely different story. Looks like its still a "he said - she said" type of thing to me.

boyd wrote:
Reading the articles above, I think Battle Foam was never in the wrong. Romeo may have a hot temper when it comes to something he is passionate about, but I haven't met a marine that isn't hot tempered about something he is passionate about (if you ever met my brother and started talking about treating patients you would pray he was your nurse because he would do everything in his power to make sure you got the best care possible as he would argue until he was blue in the face if the doctor wasn't timely or responsive). What you may think of as bad business practices are actually real business practices. If you have an agreement in place you honor it. It doesn't appear that Battle Foam has done anything wrong and by judging the reaction from the community when looking at these forums as evidence, he needed to go to court to settle the matter because he obviously had to get his side of the story out there.

It was a business practice that has made me and several others decide never to purchase from Battlefoam.

So... no, not a good business practice.

As for 'not doing anything wrong'... Oy!

The Auld Grump - I know a fair number of marines that aren't hot tempered... including one of the most mellow people that I know.

So there was an mutual settlement, made a "joint" donation to BoK's legal defense and the article that sparked it all is still up. Sounds like someone beat Romero about the head about how stupid his suit was.

 Maddermax wrote:
So there was an mutual settlement, made a "joint" donation to BoK's legal defense and the article that sparked it all is still up. Sounds like someone beat Romero about the head about how stupid his suit was.

My read as well... Seems counsel walked Romeo through his best course of action.

As much as I wanted to see this go through the court system, mostly for the commentary on Popehat, this is probably best not only for those involved, but also for the court system.

 derek wrote:
As much as I wanted to see this go through the court system, mostly for the commentary on Popehat, this is probably best not only for those involved, but also for the court system.

And... least said soonest mended.

Some folks just need to keep a better grip on their tempers...

The Auld Grump, either that or find a better place to hide the bodies.... (Joking... or am I?)

Thank god someone at BF came to their senses. Even if he won in court the PR beating he was taking was ridiculous. Again without this suit how many of us would a)have never read the article in question and b) not known about all of the mud raking the BoK affidavits contained?

For instance. I bought some Xwing Stuff at Adepticon from BF and was impressed with the quality I need to buy some foam for my new Raven Wing army and was looking at BF custom cuts for bike armies, then this broke out and I backpedaled quickly.

wonder if this mean i get unbanned for use of kool-aid talk....LOL

like those that said earlier, someone must have told Romeo that its best to shake hand vs going for the throat regardless the outcome.

Too bad all these bridges are burned and have a feeling there will always be someone holding a grudge

 whitedragon wrote:

boyd wrote:
Reading the articles above, I think Battle Foam was never in the wrong. Romeo may have a hot temper when it comes to something he is passionate about, but I haven't met a marine that isn't hot tempered about something he is passionate about (if you ever met my brother and started talking about treating patients you would pray he was your nurse because he would do everything in his power to make sure you got the best care possible as he would argue until he was blue in the face if the doctor wasn't timely or responsive). What you may think of as bad business practices are actually real business practices. If you have an agreement in place you honor it. It doesn't appear that Battle Foam has done anything wrong and by judging the reaction from the community when looking at these forums as evidence, he needed to go to court to settle the matter because he obviously had to get his side of the story out there.

I dunno, all the depositions he posted say pretty much the opposite of what the BoK depositions say, so if anything, the matter is far from settled as those depositions tell a completely different story. Looks like its still a "he said - she said" type of thing to me.

I guess, I think battle foam just looks better because they refuted several of their claims.

They claim he got pissy at one tournament they sponsored. Turns out it was because he had an exclusivity agreement they were going to violate. I think he had the right to get upset about that.

He said he was required to donate $1,000 in prize support, the other guy says he got 30 passes valued at $30 each and 1 gift card for $100. That appears to add up to $1,000. It sounds like the support just wasn't split up in a manner he wanted. I'm sure if there was more communication like , "hey we want your prize support to be one of the big items we give out as a grand prize to each winner not as door prizes." Heck, if I was sponsoring an event that had 9 events, the best thing for my sponsorship is to give out door prizes because it would get more people to my site. It would be in my best interest to do it that way, that or give something to the top 3 players in each event a prize. It sounds like the TO got butt hurt because the communication was poor.

He said someone wasn't provided a life time discount, he showed who the guy was and proved he was in fact getting a life time discount of 30%. So that is another false statement.

So the statement regarding making someone cry cannot be substantiated. I guess we will have to wait and see if battle foam continues to work with them. Even then, who knows what is true or isn't. I could find many plausible reasons why Battle Foam would decide to work with them or not work with them.

As far as th Internet forum goes, it appears to me that you have a couple of people egging him on. I really think both sides are in the wrong but only one side had anything to lose. He was damned if he said anything and damned if he was silent.

Those are my thoughts anyway.

One issue for me personally with Battlefoam "Vouchers" is that the one I got was not a true voucher, which I think is standard practice. When I hear "$100 voucher" then I usually expect a $100 voucher, and not a "here is a coupon that is not worth anything unless you spend your own money first".

 d-usa wrote:
One issue for me personally with Battlefoam "Vouchers" is that the one I got was not a true voucher, which I think is standard practice. When I hear "$100 voucher" then I usually expect a $100 voucher, and not a "here is a coupon that is not worth anything unless you spend your own money first".

Exactly. In no way is that a prize, unless you think being forced to spend $100 of your own to get $200 worth of stuff counts as prize support.

because they refuted several of their claims

But they didn't, they just said the opposite. Does that mean if BoK had followed up with a second round of depositions, you would have said they refuted BF's counter claims? Because that is how your logic flows in this scenario.

I've summarised what is contained in each deposition for the casual reader.

 Battle Foam wrote:

Declarations of

Romeo Filip http://www.battlefoam.com/Romeo_Filip.pdf

'I didn't do any of the stuff people are saying I did. But the only thing I can prove for certain is that I gave away the lifetime discount to the chap who tattoed his body (see appended evidence)'.

Carl Short http://www.battlefoam.com/Carl_Short.pdf

'I was at a tournament, and I didn't hear anything about Romeo being nasty to an old lady. I wasn't actually at the alleged place of the incident, but I'm totally sure it didn't happen.'

Jama Filip http://www.battlefoam.com/Jama_Filip.pdf

'I work for Romeo, and happened to overhear one half of a phone conversation in which BOLS said it would support tastytaste over Romeo'.

Jason Flanzer http://www.battlefoam.com/Jason_Flanzer.pdf

'One of the claims made by Tastytaste with regards to Duelcon is false and wrong. Because I'm the chap who Tastytaste is talking about'.

Carl Smith http://www.battlefoam.com/Carl_Smith.pdf

'I got the tattoo, Romeo gave me the discount. Tastytaste made it up'.

Thomas Schadle http://www.battlefoam.com/Thomas_Schadle.pdf

'I work for Romeo, and I saw a fellow give away prize support at WargamesCon without having an argument'.

Reece Robbins http://www.battlefoam.com/Reece_Robbins.pdf

'Romeo sponsors my tournaments, and I've never had a problem with him.

Kip Parcell http://www.battlefoam.com/Kip_Parcell.pdf

I'm the other chap who works for Romeo, and I'm the one who gave away the prize support for Wargamescon without having an argument.'

William Anderson http://www.battlefoam.com/William_Anderson.pdf

Broken Link

Kiran Salih http://www.battlefoam.com/Kiran_Salih.pdf

'I work for Romeo, and he gave the prize support that everbody on both sides says he did. (so blog vouchers and stuff).'

Kyle Kinghorn http://www.battlefoam.com/Kyle_Kinghorn.pdf

'I work for Romeo, and I never saw him make anyone's mother cry'.

 Maddermax wrote:
So there was an mutual settlement, made a "joint" donation to BoK's legal defense and the article that sparked it all is still up. Sounds like someone beat Romero about the head about how stupid his suit was.

That matches my reading of it. I mean, the timeline, as far as I can see, was:-

-Tastytaste writes a slightly naff critical article on Battlefoam and Romeo.
-Romeo threatens legal proceedings.
-Tastytaste gets pro bono support and forces Battlefoam to either make good on their threat or shut up.
-Romeo follows through and says he'll meet him in court.
-Depositions by witnesses who don't even like tastytaste corroborate and validate probably 75% of his claims.
-Romeo tries some hijinks to get a more favourable court/set of laws to apply to the case. Fails.
-The two parties come to a secret out of court settlement immediately after Romeo releases his counter-claims, thus ensuing they have no chance to be questioned/proven wrong.


That says to me that Romeo knew he was on a highway to a hiding, so he got the last word in legally and then quickly jumped ship before legal fees sucked his bank account dry. Which I'm inclined to think was probably the best move he could have made at this stage.


The only claims I can currently see that I think tastytaste got wrong were the one over the lifetime discount for a tattoo, and the one over him trying to get someone fired from Duelcon. The rest seem to more or less hold weight to me.

I mean, call me slightly cynical, but most of Romeo's 'He didn't do anything's seem to be being made by his employees. As such, I'm somewhat more likely to give credence to Tastytaste's depositions over theirs, which were made by people who don't particularly like tastey, and have no real interest in the outcome of the case. Especially when Romeo's past behaviour patterns match their statements.

The only way it could have ended better is if Romeo just ignored him in the first place.