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 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Wait, new Eldar are coming!!

Is there any sort of set date or at least a date that the new Eldar codex should be released by? I plan on taking it slow in expectation of these changes (Only buying a small amount of units and taking my time in learning to paint them and whatnot), but I don't think I want to have to take it slow for several months, if you get my meaning.

Thanks for taking your time to give me your suggestions regardless!

Next month

June 8th is release day i think. I suppose preorder will be up next week.

Eldar are difficult to play, as they should be!

I as a new player have enjoyed and had much success playing them. You just have to remember that you're not playing space marines, and that Eldar can and will die to any gun pointed at them. That big ass wraithknight...he'll be fine though

The new codex is just a fortnight away. Stick with eldar, and get some stuff painted up, just prepare yourself to buy a whole bunch of other, newer stuff come the 8th of June.

Belly wrote:
Eldar are difficult to play, as they should be!

I as a new player have enjoyed and had much success playing them. You just have to remember that you're not playing space marines, and that Eldar can and will die to any gun pointed at them. That big ass wraithknight...he'll be fine though

The new codex is just a fortnight away. Stick with eldar, and get some stuff painted up, just prepare yourself to buy a whole bunch of other, newer stuff come the 8th of June.

Thanks for the encouragement! I'll be ready!

Well, I've shelved my beloved Eldar when the 6th ed came out. I hope they will get boosted by the new codex. But still, its not a newbie army.

I started with Eldar and have never left by their side.

They punish mistakes harshly, but reward success in bounds. Being able to react to the ebb and flow of the battle on the fly; changing your plans, tactics and priorities as things happen will be your best ally. Oddly enough this is the skill of a well trained Farseer - reading the strands of fate as they change with the course of battle, and averting your destruction at every turn.

I rely on my armies resiliency (wraith units) and adaptive firepower (SL/EML wraith lords, wraithcannons, D-cannons and shadow spectres) to give me an edge in a changing battlefield.

Some Eldar builds rely on overwhelming strikes of CC units (harlies, seer councils) and surgical strikes. Or even extreme speed in the jetbike armies out there.

There will be a lot of changes outside of new units in the new codex:
Psychic powers will change (the eldar ones at least - see it dropping down to 4, a primaris and 3 powers rolled on a D3 like chaos/demons)
Farseers themselves will change
New Eldar Warlord trait table
and thats just in the HQ section. In light of the confirmation on Eldar being next; I would hold off on a lot of purchases and see what changes in the army. Even with only a few kits coming out; a LOT can/will change.

Also - Eldrad isn't a "must take". He is good. He isn't the giant "I Win" button of the army. With the new dex dropping; he will probs be mastery 4, but will lose the ability to use the same power twice in return (because he could be able to cast invisibility twice - invisi council AND invisi harlies *shudder*)

A lot of the must haves of the 4th Ed codex in a 6th Ed game will change. Who knows, we may get more named Farseers. I personally love my IA:11 farseer. Mastery 2, 3 powers and can take pyromancy. 4 attacks on the charge (WS6), fleshbane and has a S5 AP2 flamer template ranged weapon. TYVM.

Syranas: It remains to be proved that Eldar with the new 'dex becomes playable again. There are too many issues right now, like no flyers and overpriced transports.

syranas wrote:
I started with Eldar and have never left by their side.

They punish mistakes harshly, but reward success in bounds. Being able to react to the ebb and flow of the battle on the fly; changing your plans, tactics and priorities as things happen will be your best ally. Oddly enough this is the skill of a well trained Farseer - reading the strands of fate as they change with the course of battle, and averting your destruction at every turn.

I rely on my armies resiliency (wraith units) and adaptive firepower (SL/EML wraith lords, wraithcannons, D-cannons and shadow spectres) to give me an edge in a changing battlefield.

Some Eldar builds rely on overwhelming strikes of CC units (harlies, seer councils) and surgical strikes. Or even extreme speed in the jetbike armies out there.

There will be a lot of changes outside of new units in the new codex:
Psychic powers will change (the eldar ones at least - see it dropping down to 4, a primaris and 3 powers rolled on a D3 like chaos/demons)
Farseers themselves will change
New Eldar Warlord trait table
and thats just in the HQ section. In light of the confirmation on Eldar being next; I would hold off on a lot of purchases and see what changes in the army. Even with only a few kits coming out; a LOT can/will change.

Also - Eldrad isn't a "must take". He is good. He isn't the giant "I Win" button of the army. With the new dex dropping; he will probs be mastery 4, but will lose the ability to use the same power twice in return (because he could be able to cast invisibility twice - invisi council AND invisi harlies *shudder*)

A lot of the must haves of the 4th Ed codex in a 6th Ed game will change. Who knows, we may get more named Farseers. I personally love my IA:11 farseer. Mastery 2, 3 powers and can take pyromancy. 4 attacks on the charge (WS6), fleshbane and has a S5 AP2 flamer template ranged weapon. TYVM.

Lots of good information! Thank you!

Ignore the nay Sayers! If you live the models and the fluff and story behind them then play them!

End of the day it's YOUR hobby!
Yes they may be difficult to play to begin with and they will punish even the smallest mistake you make but you find your way of playing them that takes advantage of the elements you enjoy and like I said and others have said they will reward you all day long!

But yeah hold on to your money until the 8th if June so you can get the new codex read up on the aspect warriors then get the ones you like!

 FreddieTau6 wrote:
Ignore the nay Sayers! If you live the models and the fluff and story behind them then play them!

End of the day it's YOUR hobby!
Yes they may be difficult to play to begin with and they will punish even the smallest mistake you make but you find your way of playing them that takes advantage of the elements you enjoy and like I said and others have said they will reward you all day long!

But yeah hold on to your money until the 8th if June so you can get the new codex read up on the aspect warriors then get the ones you like!

Thanks for the encouragement! I'll definitely do my best to learn the race (When I get my hands on some models and paitn them and put them together and whatnot)!

I agree with most of the people here, wait just a little bit to grab some models, and DO NOT drop money into wraithgaurd, they are the most overpriced money-wise thing you can buy. I suggest you pick up Path of the Warrior and Path of the Seer, some great eldar stories there.

 Cypher's Sword wrote:
I agree with most of the people here, wait just a little bit to grab some models, and DO NOT drop money into wraithgaurd, they are the most overpriced money-wise thing you can buy. I suggest you pick up Path of the Warrior and Path of the Seer, some great eldar stories there.

Thanks for the advice on the Wraithguards (though I'm not too into the Wraithguards so I probably wouldn't have put much into them to begin with, it's definitely good to get an opinion on them in case I had a change of heart and thought they'd be a good option), and I'm hoping to hold out for the next few weeks, but I think I might just pick up a battleforce and an HQ in the meantime (as well as some paints and corresponding hobby tools) to at least be able to get started, since I'd imagine that I'll at least be picking up those two things sooner or later no matter what happens in the coming update, and I suppose sooner will be better since I'm dying to get my hands on something! (Or do battleforces normally get substantial overhauls in updates?)

As far as the books go, I'll definitely pick both those up, or see if I can get them off Amazon books or something as an Ebook, I've heard about Path of the Seer, all good things. Haven't heard of Path of the Warrior.

The rumors are getting pretty solid, WD pics are out and about. This thread over in news and rumors section has all the goods.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/463557.page

Most are summarized on the first page if you don't feel like digging though the whole mess.

The battleforce is looking to get an update, although they don't always. The war walker is getting swapped out for a viper last I heard. The old one is still a good deal, and I know that some people field the walkers, so they can't be that bad.

Xaios wrote:

 Cypher's Sword wrote:
I agree with most of the people here, wait just a little bit to grab some models, and DO NOT drop money into wraithgaurd, they are the most overpriced money-wise thing you can buy. I suggest you pick up Path of the Warrior and Path of the Seer, some great eldar stories there.

Thanks for the advice on the Wraithguards (though I'm not too into the Wraithguards so I probably wouldn't have put much into them to begin with, it's definitely good to get an opinion on them in case I had a change of heart and thought they'd be a good option), and I'm hoping to hold out for the next few weeks, but I think I might just pick up a battleforce and an HQ in the meantime (as well as some paints and corresponding hobby tools) to at least be able to get started, since I'd imagine that I'll at least be picking up those two things sooner or later no matter what happens in the coming update, and I suppose sooner will be better since I'm dying to get my hands on something! (Or do battleforces normally get substantial overhauls in updates?)

As far as the books go, I'll definitely pick both those up, or see if I can get them off Amazon books or something as an Ebook, I've heard about Path of the Seer, all good things. Haven't heard of Path of the Warrior.

theres also Path of theOutcast which is the third in the series, which I still haven't picked up. You might also want to try the first three out of the horus heresy series (which I can't remember as I sit here at work), but that might make you want to play marines or chaos.

Once you get your elda, if you get any questions about them, I'll be happy to help, just send me a pm, because I'll be tearing through that new rulebook too.

 Nevelon wrote:
The rumors are getting pretty solid, WD pics are out and about. This thread over in news and rumors section has all the goods.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/463557.page

Most are summarized on the first page if you don't feel like digging though the whole mess.

The battleforce is looking to get an update, although they don't always. The war walker is getting swapped out for a viper last I heard. The old one is still a good deal, and I know that some people field the walkers, so they can't be that bad.

Yeah I've heard that the War Walkers are pretty good, thanks for the link! I'll give it a readthrough.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cypher's Sword wrote:

Xaios wrote:

 Cypher's Sword wrote:
I agree with most of the people here, wait just a little bit to grab some models, and DO NOT drop money into wraithgaurd, they are the most overpriced money-wise thing you can buy. I suggest you pick up Path of the Warrior and Path of the Seer, some great eldar stories there.

Thanks for the advice on the Wraithguards (though I'm not too into the Wraithguards so I probably wouldn't have put much into them to begin with, it's definitely good to get an opinion on them in case I had a change of heart and thought they'd be a good option), and I'm hoping to hold out for the next few weeks, but I think I might just pick up a battleforce and an HQ in the meantime (as well as some paints and corresponding hobby tools) to at least be able to get started, since I'd imagine that I'll at least be picking up those two things sooner or later no matter what happens in the coming update, and I suppose sooner will be better since I'm dying to get my hands on something! (Or do battleforces normally get substantial overhauls in updates?)

As far as the books go, I'll definitely pick both those up, or see if I can get them off Amazon books or something as an Ebook, I've heard about Path of the Seer, all good things. Haven't heard of Path of the Warrior.

theres also Path of theOutcast which is the third in the series, which I still haven't picked up. You might also want to try the first three out of the horus heresy series (which I can't remember as I sit here at work), but that might make you want to play marines or chaos.

Once you get your elda, if you get any questions about them, I'll be happy to help, just send me a pm, because I'll be tearing through that new rulebook too.

Thanks for the book suggestions! I'll definitely be picking all those up at some point!

And yeah, I'll definitely shoot you a message if I get any questions, I appreciate the help!

I know you're pumped to get started, but I seriously think it's worth waiting for the new release. It really isn't far away by all evidence so far... GW doesn't release info far in advance these days. You're new to the hobby, so you haven't been through a new codex release before. While it's true that often a lot of stuff doesn't change much, it's also true that sometimes things change DRASTICALLY, and there will definitely be some new things in the codex. We don't yet know what will happen. There's solid rumours on what new kits are coming, but there are no reliable rumours on what rules will change. You may think getting a Farseer and Guardians might be a solid start, but if suddenly Autarchs and Dire Avengers get some incredible rules and a style of play you find totally intriguing, you'll wish you'd waited the few short weeks.

That's not even getting into the fact that there are brand new additions like the Wraithknight and the new flyers. Until we see the rules, we won't know what other units will complement them in an army. Just try to hold out a little longer.

On a more positive note, I think you're doing the right thing by picking the army you like the look of most. It's you that has to play it & paint it. Yeah you might lose a fair number of your early games, but you'll learn no matter what army you pick. Read tactics and batreps and you'll get some ideas for things to try. You'll be fine

 Cryogen wrote:
I know you're pumped to get started, but I seriously think it's worth waiting for the new release. It really isn't far away by all evidence so far... GW doesn't release info far in advance these days. You're new to the hobby, so you haven't been through a new codex release before. While it's true that often a lot of stuff doesn't change much, it's also true that sometimes things change DRASTICALLY, and there will definitely be some new things in the codex. We don't yet know what will happen. There's solid rumours on what new kits are coming, but there are no reliable rumours on what rules will change. You may think getting a Farseer and Guardians might be a solid start, but if suddenly Autarchs and Dire Avengers get some incredible rules and a style of play you find totally intriguing, you'll wish you'd waited the few short weeks.

That's not even getting into the fact that there are brand new additions like the Wraithknight and the new flyers. Until we see the rules, we won't know what other units will complement them in an army. Just try to hold out a little longer.

On a more positive note, I think you're doing the right thing by picking the army you like the look of most. It's you that has to play it & paint it. Yeah you might lose a fair number of your early games, but you'll learn no matter what army you pick. Read tactics and batreps and you'll get some ideas for things to try. You'll be fine

Thanks for the encouragement and advice!

Agree with all above! If you want to try out colour schemes and stuff then pick up some of the cheap 5 pack snap fit guardians that your local GW should have in store that eau you've not splashed a load of cash on stuff which you may find when you read the new codex you don't want to use for whatever reason, that way you still sink your teeth Into something eldar but don't potentially waste your money as well

I reckon most of us eldar players will lose a game or 2 in the beginning before we get to grips with this new book

 FreddieTau6 wrote:
If you want to try out colour schemes and stuff then pick up some of the cheap 5 pack snap fit guardians that your local GW should have in store that eau you've not splashed a load of cash on stuff which you may find when you read the new codex you don't want to use for whatever reason, that way you still sink your teeth Into something eldar but don't potentially waste your money as well

I tested my schemes on dawn of war first

It was a nice way of seeing how the scheme I picked would look on wraithlords and vehicles before I painted them.

 FreddieTau6 wrote:
Agree with all above! If you want to try out colour schemes and stuff then pick up some of the cheap 5 pack snap fit guardians that your local GW should have in store that eau you've not splashed a load of cash on stuff which you may find when you read the new codex you don't want to use for whatever reason, that way you still sink your teeth Into something eldar but don't potentially waste your money as well

I reckon most of us eldar players will lose a game or 2 in the beginning before we get to grips with this new book

Good idea! I might just do that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PredaKhaine wrote:

 FreddieTau6 wrote:
If you want to try out colour schemes and stuff then pick up some of the cheap 5 pack snap fit guardians that your local GW should have in store that eau you've not splashed a load of cash on stuff which you may find when you read the new codex you don't want to use for whatever reason, that way you still sink your teeth Into something eldar but don't potentially waste your money as well

I tested my schemes on dawn of war first

It was a nice way of seeing how the scheme I picked would look on wraithlords and vehicles before I painted them.

Also a very good idea! I hadn't thought of that.

Xaios, considering the timeline for the next build and all of this I'd restrict yourself to a big rule book (a significant investment and a TON of information that you'll need to digest) and either borrowing an existing Eldar codex from a friend or buying a heavily used one on ebay. In a month you're never going to use it again anyway.

Next keep yourself to a single generic commander (The Farseer was an excellent suggestion) and troop choices for the moment with the target being a 500 pt army. And don't buy troops until you've really planned out a little through the codex. If you're not sure, a Battleforce does tend to be a fairly balanced method for doing this.

After that, really hold up and get them built up and then get into your local gaming store or group and play some low point games! They are faster and can definitely be fun and you'll learn a lot about your troops and importantly your opponents. Then revise up the troop ladder in measures, say 750, 1250, 1750, and finally 2000 (which is when you will have "arrived") which will be good for you to keep your costs in line, keep waste from getting out of hand, and feel really good about your final force org as you will know it all solidly and what each role your troops fill.

Best of luck to you, and welcome to the hobby! Share some pics of your models/paint job as you get them going on the forums and enjoy getting involved!

GreyDragoon wrote:
Xaios, considering the timeline for the next build and all of this I'd restrict yourself to a big rule book (a significant investment and a TON of information that you'll need to digest) and either borrowing an existing Eldar codex from a friend or buying a heavily used one on ebay. In a month you're never going to use it again anyway.

Next keep yourself to a single generic commander (The Farseer was an excellent suggestion) and troop choices for the moment with the target being a 500 pt army. And don't buy troops until you've really planned out a little through the codex. If you're not sure, a Battleforce does tend to be a fairly balanced method for doing this.

After that, really hold up and get them built up and then get into your local gaming store or group and play some low point games! They are faster and can definitely be fun and you'll learn a lot about your troops and importantly your opponents. Then revise up the troop ladder in measures, say 750, 1250, 1750, and finally 2000 (which is when you will have "arrived") which will be good for you to keep your costs in line, keep waste from getting out of hand, and feel really good about your final force org as you will know it all solidly and what each role your troops fill.

Best of luck to you, and welcome to the hobby! Share some pics of your models/paint job as you get them going on the forums and enjoy getting involved!

I will, thank you for your suggestions and encouragement! I'm probably going to pick up a battleforce and the Farseer with Warlocks and roll with that for a bit. Paint them and whatnot

Hey there again, guys! The new Eldar stuff has been revealed, and I'm pretty excited for it all, but now I'm unsure as to what of it I should purchase, as I stated before, I have a few hundred dollars to spend on models, and there seem to be some new packs for preorder and whatnot, namely the Saim-Hann 1-Click Miniatures Collection, and the Eldar One-Click Launch Collection on the Games Workshop site.

The former seems to provide more of an "Army" (a jetbike army with some tanks, at that, the idea of which I think is really cool) while the latter just seems to give one of everything new that's being released. But as I've said before, I'm completely new to this, so I don't know what an effective army (small or large) is really composed of.

Could I get a few opinions on this, that is, if any of these packs would be worth spending the money on for my first army, or if I should just go with my previous plan of grabbing a battleforce or two and building from there? I believe that the new stat changes aren't available anywhere (or maybe they are, not really sure!) so I understand that it maybe hard to give pinpoint answers and I'm willing to wait the extra week to see the new stat changes and hear your opinions then, but getting some preliminary opinions wouldn't hurt, I'm sure! Might as well see what you guys think so far to keep my mind occupied until I go and buy em.

Thanks in advance!

(Using my old thread, since it's still pretty recent and covers more or less the same topic)

EDITS:
Ignore them, it's nearly 6 AM as I type this so much of it is a bit of a ramble, I'm rereading and editing parts that seem a bit off for your guys' benefit!

This link has all the information from the eldar rumours thread on the new dex.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/463557/5671458.page#5671458

While the battleforces do save some money, the 1-click bundles do not. They are GW's way to suck extra cash out of impulse buys. Shop smart. Look and price the individual components, and make sure you want them.

For example, if you decide you want to run a wraith heavy force, the battleforce is not going to do you a whole lot of good.

If you go with a Saim-Hann windrider army, one will work well, but instead of a second one, you probably will want a few boxes of jetbikes.

A lot of this can be done with weapon selection, but here is my basic checklist for building an army list:

Do you have a way to take and hold objectives? It's OK to have one non-mobile scoring unit to camp your home objective, the rest need to be able to survive to get across the table in a timely manner.

Can you deal with heavy armor? Someone plops down a pair of AV14 LRs and a FoR do you have an answer? Lances and Fire Dragons are probably your go-to pick here, but we'll see with the new 'dex.

What about medium and light armor? This is more prevalent then AV14, so you should be able to kill more at once. Also something you want to be able to do at long range. Spamming S7-8 shots usually works well here

Hordes of troops. Not just killing the marines after you've cracked open their transports, but what do you do when your opponent carpets his deployment zone with orks/guard blobs/little bugs? Templates, pie plates, and massed small arms are generally the way to go.

Have an answer to flyers? Giant monsters?

 Nevelon wrote:
Do you have a way to take and hold objectives? It's OK to have one non-mobile scoring unit to camp your home objective, the rest need to be able to survive to get across the table in a timely manner.

Can you deal with heavy armor? Someone plops down a pair of AV14 LRs and a FoR do you have an answer? Lances and Fire Dragons are probably your go-to pick here, but we'll see with the new 'dex.

What about medium and light armor? This is more prevalent then AV14, so you should be able to kill more at once. Also something you want to be able to do at long range. Spamming S7-8 shots usually works well here

Hordes of troops. Not just killing the marines after you've cracked open their transports, but what do you do when your opponent carpets his deployment zone with orks/guard blobs/little bugs? Templates, pie plates, and massed small arms are generally the way to go.

Have an answer to flyers? Giant monsters?

Here is my 2 cents after reading the new 'dex.

Hold/take objectives: bikes, bikes, bikes. 51 points for 3 means 15 in 305 points with 5 shuriken cannons.
Heavy armour: 5 fire dragons on wave serpent, maybe 2 squads depending on meta.
Medium/light armour: warp spiders just got crazy. they are so damn cheap and freaking fast. 10 AB4 S7 vs vehicles for 95 points.
Hordes of troops: bikes are good, i'm thinking about this. Maybe warwalkers?
Flyers: crimson hunter is good but fragile so it needs redundance. Maybe warwalkers?
Giant monsters: we have bladestorm!

Nevelon wrote:While the battleforces do save some money, the 1-click bundles do not. They are GW's way to suck extra cash out of impulse buys. Shop smart. Look and price the individual components, and make sure you want them.

...

Eldarcannon wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Do you have a way to take and hold objectives? It's OK to have one non-mobile scoring unit to camp your home objective, the rest need to be able to survive to get across the table in a timely manner.

Can you deal with heavy armor? Someone plops down a pair of AV14 LRs and a FoR do you have an answer? Lances and Fire Dragons are probably your go-to pick here, but we'll see with the new 'dex.

What about medium and light armor? This is more prevalent then AV14, so you should be able to kill more at once. Also something you want to be able to do at long range. Spamming S7-8 shots usually works well here

Hordes of troops. Not just killing the marines after you've cracked open their transports, but what do you do when your opponent carpets his deployment zone with orks/guard blobs/little bugs? Templates, pie plates, and massed small arms are generally the way to go.

Have an answer to flyers? Giant monsters?

Here is my 2 cents after reading the new 'dex.
...

Thanks for both of your posts!
I was intending on beefing up whatever army I got, be it the Windrider army or the battleforce, or whatever with a couple of squads of Warp Spiders and Fire Dragons regardless, since those are my favorite units so far. But I don't really like the Wraith units, story-wise I mean (Except for the Wraithknights, but come on, who wouldn't like those? Either way the Wraithknight is probably a bit out of my budget right now) since I don't know anything about how they field or anything like that, yet.

After seeing a couple of batreps with an Eldar Jetbike army, I'm kind of leaning toward that side, but from what I've read, those seem to be more of a novelty than something people would field regularly (correct me if I'm wrong! I sure hope I am!)

Overall though, I'm just looking for a small army, relatively inexpensive to help me get into the hobby and start painting and playing.

All of that being said, would it be adequate to buy a Battleforce (or two), a squad of warp spiders, and Fire Dragons and an HQ (Probably the Farseer with Warlocks) and call it a day? Or would I be missing something critical there?

The wildrider/saim-hann jetbike list will probably see quite a bit of the play now that bikes have dropped in points. Also going towards this is the buff to shining spears, serpents, falcons, and also to fire prisms.

I'll be playing a footdar army, as I did in the old edition. Highlights include; Warp Spiders, Dragons, Guardians (just), War Walkers, and Swooping Hawks.

A battleforce or two might have you covered, it really depends on how competitively you want to play. It might be an idea to buy one battleforce and a farseer. Play some games. Plug holes as you find them.

The sword wind and Iyanden Wraith lists also got buffed.

Foot armies (non-wraith) get the run/shoot or shoot/run rule. So you can run D6" then shoot at full BS. Plus there's the warlord trait that's D6+1" to aid in this. Guardians being BS/WS4 I5 buffs this further.

Wraith armies lost the wraithsight rule; the spirit seer makes wraith guard and blades troops; meaning that you don't need to take 10 in a squad for troops. Distort weapons got buffed. They lost fleshbane but are now S10. Scythes are S4 but flamer templates (D3 overwatch) or blasts on the wraithfighter. All are AP2 and auto pen on 6's and instant death on 6's.

Bike lists aren't all that got buffed. But the nit-pickers can't see past the bad things.