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Made in au
Nimble Dark Rider




I didn't see this posted anywhere else, and did a search for the combat company and couldn't see it there.

The Combat Company, a large Australian reseller of GW goods has announced that they will be considering legal action, due to the way they have been mistreated by GW.

The article says it best:

What's happening with the Eldar release?


You can still buy it on our website, but before you order, you need to know that

there is not enough stock... worldwide.

We ordered $10,000 worth of Eldar stock and

Games Workshop (GW) has not guaranteed us anything

Maybe we’ll be able to get 4 of 300 sets that are being brought into Australia. That’s less than 1% of what’s being imported – compared to the whopping 33% they are apparently withholding for their bricks-and-mortar stores and 33% for their Internet and mailorder.

For years we’ve supported the GW product range and gaming community, but this is the last straw. You have the right to buy GW from wherever you want. We will continue to sell their products and try to take every single dollar we can out of their direct sales channels.



The background

Anyone remember the ongoing Tau debacle?

Eldar is shaping up to be the second time a popular GW release has been drastically undersupplied to all wholesaler customers in Australia.

Unofficially, we’ve been told that GW are withholding 66% of all stock for their own purposes - 33% for their bricks and mortar and 33% for their own Internet / mail order sales. The last 33% is split across every other independent reseller in Australia and New Zealand – that’s at least 25 wholesale customers, averaging to about 4 pieces for each wholesale customer.

We were offered a wholesale pricelist on Tuesday 21 May. On Wednesday 22 May we ordered $10,000 worth of stock to meet our expected demand. On Thursday 23 May, we asked GW to confirm the order and whether they could supply the stock. We wanted to avoid another Tau situation and the disappointment it caused our customers.

GW replied:

“at this time… we are uncertain if we will be able to fill the order in its entirety”.



So, where does this leave us and more importantly, you:

We will offer Eldar for sale, but we cannot guarantee an estimated delivery time. We’ve been waiting over a month to receive our Tau backorders. GW will not even allow us to reserve stock – we can’t even say to them, ‘hey when it comes in, can we get some?’ but supply to their direct sales seems to be uninterrupted. This doesn’t bode well for Eldar does it?

Our Eldar order was based on a GW price list which contained no indication that stock would be limited. We spent time getting our promotions ready, newsletters, social media, site updates so we could promote this new release as enthusiastically as we have for all their other releases in the past.

When we confronted GW about withholding stock for themselves, instead of fulfilling our legitimate wholesale order, they did not respond in any meaningful way, just reiterated their ‘spreading the stock around’ dogma.

This is only one of many, ongoing problems we’ve had with Games Workshop since setting up our wholesale account. We’ve borne the brunt of the dirty tactics employed by GW to limit your capacity to buy products at a discount from independent suppliers.



What are we going to do about this?

In the short term, we’ll no longer be allocating a release date to any GW products as they are unable to guarantee stock, but we will endeavour to get it for you as quickly as we can.

We’ve had enough. We’re looking into legal action against GW on the grounds of uncompetitive business practices, blatantly establishing a monopoly on the market and, consequently, forcing customers to deal directly with GW.

Unless we’re already committed, we’ll no longer sponsor or be directly involved with any GW events or promotions for the community. We apologise profusely to you guys but we’re not receiving any support from GW on any front – especially gaming events. There is no point in supporting games systems produced by companies hellbent on our extinction and their own.

We believe GW are struggling to maintain a hold on their products and market share within the region. This is a symptom of their inevitable demise. They are, as many of you know, their own worst enemy. We have done everything we can, exercised every degree of patience and made multiple excuses for their behaviour, but enough is enough. We have tried to work with them. We pushed their products and promoted gaming events for them – and now it comes to this.

You have the right to buy GW from wherever you want. We will continue to sell their products and take every single dollar we can out of their direct sales channels.





All the above information is based on our own experiences and industry-insider knowledge. All opinions are our own and have been expressed after much deliberation. The content is intended to help you, the customer, understand our position so you can make an informed decision when purchasing GW products.


Their math may not be 100%, but I can see where they are coming from.

http://www.thecombatcompany.com/whats-happening-with-the-eldar-release/
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






So? There is no obligation for GW to sell their products. They can make them all and put them in a warehouse with the ark of the covenant.

Also, they don't understand what a 'monopoly' is. Of course GW has a monopoly on its own product. But they do not have a monopoly in distribution of minis or wargaming as a whole.

If Billy's bread won't sell me loaves to sell in my market and only sells via his bakery, then I just need to find Jimmy's bread to let me sell his bread. If Billy puts himself out of business, that is his problem, but it isn't illegal and he has no obligation to keep your market afloat...


Diversify and don't be so dependant on such a crazy company for retail product.

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nkelsch wrote:
So? There is no obligation for GW to sell their products. They can make them all and put them in a warehouse with the ark of the covenant.

Also, they don't understand what a 'monopoly' is. Of course GW has a monopoly on its own product. But they do not have a monopoly in distribution of minis or wargaming as a whole.

If Billy's bread won't sell me loaves to sell in my market and only sells via his bakery, then I just need to find Jimmy's bread to let me sell his bread. If Billy puts himself out of business, that is his problem, but it isn't illegal and he has no obligation to keep your market afloat...


Diversify and don't be so dependant on such a crazy company for retail product.


There are possible legal ramifications for GW's behavior in Australia. In respect to Monopolies and Anti Competitive Pricing, there are possibilities there for them to explore. For instance, Apple, Microsoft and Adobe all sat in a recent parliamentary enquiry into their Australian pricing despite their pricing schemes being completely legal. It remains to be seen if they actually have a basis for a lawsuit worked out, or if this is simply bluster trying to score a few more elder, but there are avenues for them to explore if they so choose.
   
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SC, USA

Wait, hold on. So Under AUS law, GW might actually be considered to have a monopoly on... Their own product? Thats bizzare.
   
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College Park, MD

Have any other shops in AUS come out saying anything similar, either in terms of looking into legal actions or simply corroborating statements that GWAUS really is holding onto roughly 2/3rds of the product for the country for their own outlets?

 
   
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Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator





Indeed is, complete the opposite of here...
   
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TN

GW has been using shark tactics for years now and it is finally biting them hard in the rear. I really hope this goes to court honestly. But I can see how they could claim a monopoly is being done on distribution. The company paid in 10,000$ for Eldar stock which everyone knows will be huge except for GW because they want all independent sellers to die in a cess pool and apparently have no "pulse" on how popular they are.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/25 03:12:34


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AJCarrington

I suspect the issue is more related to the apparent preferential treatment of their own direct sales channels vs those of third parties. Should be interesting to see how this turns out.
   
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader




Yeah, this sounds like just another angry mob hunting for Dr. Workshop and his terrible creation that is direct sales.
A lot of these distributors sell Gamesworkshop products at discounted prices, which is against Gamesworkshops trade agreement.
This might be a nice way of saying, "you dont follow our rules, you dont sell our product."
That is not illegal in any way (or at least i don't see how.)
   
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GW Public Relations Manager (Privateer Press Mole)







If this wasn't just a sales rep spouting the corporate reply after the Tau issue (Never let them assume an order will be filled a new release from this point on)---AND they truly have distribution issues again--I think the more interesting question would be; Why is GW suddenly having this issue?

Are they reaping the last several years of "fat trimming"?
Are they scaling back production to keep growth more stable/limited?
Are they experiencing raw material issues?
Or is this just two coincidental shortages (If this one pans out)?

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Charleston, SC

What would concern me the most would be Games-Workshop accepting their money and then not delivering the goods on time; with no official warning whatsoever that they were having "stock issues". That is just dirty.

 
   
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 AgeOfEgos wrote:
If this wasn't just a sales rep spouting the corporate reply after the Tau issue (Never let them assume an order will be filled a new release from this point on)---AND they truly have distribution issues again--I think the more interesting question would be; Why is GW suddenly having this issue?

Are they reaping the last several years of "fat trimming"?
Are they scaling back production to keep growth more stable/limited?
Are they experiencing raw material issues?
Or is this just two coincidental shortages (If this one pans out)?
Isn't the answer that they cut their NA production facility?

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Gathering the Informations.

Nightwolf829 wrote:
What would concern me the most would be Games-Workshop accepting their money and then not delivering the goods on time; with no official warning whatsoever that they were having "stock issues". That is just dirty.

"Placing an order" does not mean that the order was processed or that money necessarily exchanged hands.

It's very specific in the wording that the Combat Company "placed the order" but that they requested confirmation from Games Workshop that the order was processed.
   
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Nimble Dark Rider




 Kanluwen wrote:
Nightwolf829 wrote:
What would concern me the most would be Games-Workshop accepting their money and then not delivering the goods on time; with no official warning whatsoever that they were having "stock issues". That is just dirty.

"Placing an order" does not mean that the order was processed or that money necessarily exchanged hands.

It's very specific in the wording that the Combat Company "placed the order" but that they requested confirmation from Games Workshop that the order was processed.


Yeah, I think so too.

See there are really 2 ways this could work out for them. I don't think there is any case law here short of something I remember about a supermarket distributor being shut down for similar practices.(currently looking for the info)

1. Fight the contract. If GW broke their own terms of trade somehow, they could seek damages.
2. ACCC: These guys fight consumer and business issues, as above they monitor monopoly practices and price fixing. They could lodge a complaint as both a business AND a consumer, depending on their agreement with GW.

But as I said, I don't know if there is a case, it will simply be interesting to see if it does go somewhere.
   
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Deep Frier of Mount Doom

I thought all the aussies bought GW from overseas to avoid their local prices? That seems to be the dakka consensus unless its just a very vocal minority.
   
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Nimble Dark Rider




 warboss wrote:
I thought all the aussies bought GW from overseas to avoid their local prices? That seems to be the dakka consensus unless its just a very vocal minority.


They have done a lot to tighten their terms of trade preventing just this. It is now very difficult to buy GW internationally from Australia, unless you use eBay.
   
Made in au
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I was just pricing out an order through The Combat Company. I do love the little blurb on all the Eldar pre-orders, which basically amounts to "We have no fething idea when we're getting this stock in, so please be aware of that".

Really I don't know why this sort of thing surprises anyone. We all know that LGS suddenly have stock problems when a GW opens nearby. GW is just taking this strategy global.

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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

nkelsch wrote:
So? There is no obligation for GW to sell their products. They can make them all and put them in a warehouse with the ark of the covenant.


And, while this is true, once they do decide to sell them - to act as a distributor - then they are obligated not to run afoul of the anti-competitive practices law of the jurisdictions they have chosen to do business in.

Whether or not that's happened, who knows. But it's not as cut and dried as "their product, they decide who to sell to" - and if you think about it, you already know that, really. For example, you know if a Walmart decided, for example, they wanted to refuse service to anyone who appeared Haitian, you know that's not going to fly. And while that's not what happened here, it shows the principle that you can sell to - or not sell to - whomever you like to not all all be an absolute.

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Melbourne .au

 warboss wrote:
I thought all the aussies bought GW from overseas to avoid their local prices? That seems to be the dakka consensus unless its just a very vocal minority.


There's a lot of Aussie players. It's also possible that most of us here on Dakka order from OS while the majority in country buy locally. (skewed sample from Dakka?). Then again, the out-of-EU embargo didn't come out of nowhere, nor did the changes to US distributor policy. If we were just a minority, I doubt GW would have noticed or made the above changes.


   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Brisbane, Australia

Neronoxx wrote:
Yeah, this sounds like just another angry mob hunting for Dr. Workshop and his terrible creation that is direct sales.
A lot of these distributors sell Gamesworkshop products at discounted prices, which is against Gamesworkshops trade agreement.
This might be a nice way of saying, "you dont follow our rules, you dont sell our product."
That is not illegal in any way (or at least i don't see how.)


It can well be illegal to abuse your market position by using discriminatory practices to harm competitors.

http://www.australiancompetitionlaw.org/law/mmp.html
About Misuse of Market Power

Section 46(1) prohibits a corporation with substantial market power taking advantage of that market power for a prohibited purpose. The prohibited purposes include

(a) Eliminating or substantially damaging a competitor … in that or any other market

(b) Preventing entry of a person into that or any other market

© Deterring or preventing a person from engaging in competitive conduct in that or any other market

The purpose element has generally been easy to establish; the stumbling blocks have been market power and 'taking advantage'. Recent legislation - the Trade Practices Legislation Amendment Act 2008 - has also provided some guidance on the 'taking advantage' requirement designed to make it easier to prove.


I'm not a lawyer, but it could well be covered by Australian law (and UK law from what I could find), but whether it would get that far, and whether they could show GW was deliberately harming the competition without good reason, would be another issue entirely (there would be many pitfalls for The Combat Company to work through).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/25 06:28:31


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Made in au
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Australia

Neronoxx wrote:
Yeah, this sounds like just another angry mob hunting for Dr. Workshop and his terrible creation that is direct sales.
A lot of these distributors sell Gamesworkshop products at discounted prices, which is against Gamesworkshops trade agreement.
This might be a nice way of saying, "you dont follow our rules, you dont sell our product."
That is not illegal in any way (or at least i don't see how.)


Actually that would be illegal. Once GW (or anybody) sells their product to to somebody else to sell, they have no say in how much it goes for. That's price fixing.
Whether GW decide to sell their product to a FLGS to sell as well flogging them via their own stores and website is a different story. Although if they have a contract with someone to supply them and then don't, they could be in breach of contract.
   
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Canberra, Australia

varag wrote:
Neronoxx wrote:
Yeah, this sounds like just another angry mob hunting for Dr. Workshop and his terrible creation that is direct sales.
A lot of these distributors sell Gamesworkshop products at discounted prices, which is against Gamesworkshops trade agreement.
This might be a nice way of saying, "you dont follow our rules, you dont sell our product."
That is not illegal in any way (or at least i don't see how.)


Actually that would be illegal. Once GW (or anybody) sells their product to to somebody else to sell, they have no say in how much it goes for. That's price fixing.
Whether GW decide to sell their product to a FLGS to sell as well flogging them via their own stores and website is a different story. Although if they have a contract with someone to supply them and then don't, they could be in breach of contract.


I agree, but... Isn't this what Apple does. Apple advises of the price that want it sold for and if the retailers sells it for a discount without Apples permission then Apple tears up the distribution contract?
   
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Oklahoma

I think its possible to have a case. I would hope he wouldn't voice his intentions without first consulting legal advice saying that he could.

From the sounds of things, (and not too unfamiliar) is that GW is artificially creating demand in Aus, and supplying that demand in their own brick and mortar outlets without supplying to the stores they entered and agreement to supply to. I could in fact be a case of monopolizing to their own brick and mortar store over a FLGS.
   
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Down Under

 sarduka42 wrote:
varag wrote:


Actually that would be illegal. Once GW (or anybody) sells their product to to somebody else to sell, they have no say in how much it goes for. That's price fixing.
Whether GW decide to sell their product to a FLGS to sell as well flogging them via their own stores and website is a different story. Although if they have a contract with someone to supply them and then don't, they could be in breach of contract.


I agree, but... Isn't this what Apple does. Apple advises of the price that want it sold for and if the retailers sells it for a discount without Apples permission then Apple tears up the distribution contract?


Price fixing comes in when multiple parties agree to sell an item (that can be sourced from multiple avenues) at an agreed on price (petrol/gas companies agreeing not to charge below $X when they quite easily could rather than allowing market forces to decide the price.)

When a single company puts it in their terms that "You will buy Product A from us for $X and sell it for $Y or else we will not sell you anything more" (as the mentioned Apple products) that is legally fine, as they are the only source for the product.

To give a more specific and closer example in the gaming world anyone who bought from Maelstrom back in the day would recall that Flames of War were never sold with as much of a % discount as other miniatures because of the terms of Maelstrom's contract. The makes didn't want the FoW product to be considered a "discount item" and had it in the contract that they were not permitted to sell it at more than and advertised 10% discount (i think it was 10%)

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nkelsch wrote:
So? There is no obligation for GW to sell their products. They can make them all and put them in a warehouse with the ark of the covenant.

Also, they don't understand what a 'monopoly' is. Of course GW has a monopoly on its own product. But they do not have a monopoly in distribution of minis or wargaming as a whole.

If Billy's bread won't sell me loaves to sell in my market and only sells via his bakery, then I just need to find Jimmy's bread to let me sell his bread. If Billy puts himself out of business, that is his problem, but it isn't illegal and he has no obligation to keep your market afloat...


Diversify and don't be so dependant on such a crazy company for retail product.
You misunderstand the situation.

If you routinely sell Billy's Bread, have been for years, and you place another order with Billy, and Billy doesn't fulfill the order and instead puts product that otherwise would fulfill that order into Billy's Bike Delivered Bread so they can charge more and reap more margin, that's where a legal issue can develop under Australian (and many other nations) law.

If you place an order with Billy and Billy doesn't say squat until you call Billy and then Billy says "sorry, we're out of stock to fulfill that order" but in reality does and is instead putting it through other sales channels, a problem arises.

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GW don't have to sell to anyone as such, they could just sell only through their own shops. But I think once you do start wholesaling your stuff and pulling in independent retailers, you're not supposed to leave them high and dry, grossly favouring your own stores at the expense of others. You are supposed to treat them fairly, after all, once an independent store takes on a line of stock they position themselves to sell to certain customers, they are vulnerable to their supplier failing to support them leaving them to look bad to the customer and ultimately lose business. To have a supplier of a major product screw you around by choking off your supply of stock in favour of their own shops isn't on. But then again, GW have a habit of undermining independent stores when it suits them.

The fact that Eldar are looking to be under produced after Tau doesn't look very good. I'm not sure that it's a sign GW are 'in trouble' but it does rather look like they are trimming all the fat so that releases come faster and they don't hang around because they being very conservative on meeting demand.
   
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Neronoxx wrote:
A lot of these distributors sell Gamesworkshop products at discounted prices, which is against Gamesworkshops trade agreement.

Last time I saw the trade agreement here in Oz, it just disallowed selling with a discount over a certain amount, not all discounting.

And GW are very quick to cut off an account who breaks their rules. They don't need to mess about with not filling orders in that situation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 warboss wrote:
I thought all the aussies bought GW from overseas to avoid their local prices? That seems to be the dakka consensus unless its just a very vocal minority.

Some (an increasing number at least up until the last round of trade changes overseas) buy from overseas, but there are still a core who like to support their local stores whey they actually still have one. And obviously some are still buying directly from GW stores, or their wouldn't be any GW stores.

With the apparent trend by GW to start equalising prices on new releases, we might even see a bit of a boost for in-country sales. Assuming the price creep doesn't balance that out...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/25 08:06:48


 
   
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Either some manchildren are throwing a tantrum again (see the Death From the Skies ban) or this is a lame PR stunt.

Anyone seriously considering taking legal action usually doesn't announce it to the world first.

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So a business having a legitimate grievance with its supplier is nothing but some "manchildren" that are "throwing a tantrum"?

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 lord_blackfang wrote:
Either some manchildren are throwing a tantrum again (see the Death From the Skies ban) or this is a lame PR stunt.

Anyone seriously considering taking legal action usually doesn't announce it to the world first.


Or they simply wanted to warn their customers who are about to preorder - frenzy, and no excuse is good without highlighting a course of action to rectify the situation. The only way we will know if they are legitimate is if anything comes of it, but jumping to "manchildren" is just facetious.

I don't think this is the same sort of situation as DFTS, that was simply GW deciding not to sell an item to (wholesale) customers.

This is about fulfilling existing contractual obligations, and whether or not GW has acted in an anti competitive manner while fulfilling an order. An order that they have(most likely) said they will fulfill.
   
 
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