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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/25 09:06:56
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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lord_blackfang wrote:Anyone seriously considering taking legal action usually doesn't announce it to the world first.
I'm inclined to agree with this, actually. If they're going to litigate, they should go ahead and do it.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/25 09:35:09
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Nimble Dark Rider
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Ouze wrote: lord_blackfang wrote:Anyone seriously considering taking legal action usually doesn't announce it to the world first.
I'm inclined to agree with this, actually. If they're going to litigate, they should go ahead and do it.
I can see it both ways.
As a customer I don't accept "sorry for taking your money, but we cannot fulfill your preorder) as an excuse, generally I take my money elsewhere.
What I do like to know, is what exactly they are doing to remedy the situation. ie, its not the failure that defines this post, its the way they are handling it, that's just customer service 101. I am not interested in what you can't do, but what you can do.
Now obviously, it will be WORSE for them if they don't follow through. But as it is, what they have said could amount to "We asked our lawyer to review the situation to see if we can seek satisfaction legally" (and if that is what they meant, they have set themselves up for backlash)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/25 09:39:08
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Dundee, Scotland/Dharahn, Saudi Arabia
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I can't see this actually going anywhere.
There is no unequal treatment per se,
GW have three avenues for sales, their own B&M, GW Online, FLGS. each are getting a 1/3 of the total supply.
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If the thought of something makes me giggle for longer than 15 seconds, I am to assume that I am not allowed to do it. item 87, skippys list
DC:70S+++G+++M+++B+++I++Pw40k86/f#-D+++++A++++/cWD86R+++++T(D)DM++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/25 09:58:54
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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And you know this because...?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/25 10:00:09
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Confessor Of Sins
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Claim by the Combat Company in the first post of this thread. So it must be true!
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Cratfworld Alaitoc (Gallery)
Order of the Red Mantle (Gallery)
Grand (little) Army of Chaos, now painting! (Blog) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/25 11:03:37
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Using Inks and Washes
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marv335 wrote:I can't see this actually going anywhere.
There is no unequal treatment per se,
GW have three avenues for sales, their own B&M, GW Online, FLGS. each are getting a 1/3 of the total supply.
Not quite the way I see it - so which way a judge might see it is anyone's guess at this time. The distribution cannot be split the way you describe. Some FLGS have online presences too, so either you take the online part out of it entirely and end up with GW = 66.6% of supply, FLGS 33.3%, giving GW what could be argued as unfair advantage, revert to GW=50%, FLGS=50%, or you add the online presence into both sides of the equation. This will give you GW B&M 25%, GW Online 25%, FLGS B&M 25%, and FLGS Online 25% - which does in fact slightly give the advantage to the FLGS that do have an online presence.
As I understand it, the main discrepancy in how GW treats it's FLGS customers is through the T&C's it lays out. To be a retail customer (As opposed to an End User customer like me going into either a GW or FLGS) you must agree to buy X base packs and probably Y extra packs. And right at the time the retail customer expects to make the best return for his custom with GW throughout the rest of the year, GW says "Sorry, can't garantee your order (unless you'd like to go to your nearest GW store and buy them there). That stinks!
Someone at GW should be told " FLGS are our 'Sales Partners', they help us make money all year long and although we don't make as much selling to them as we do to the end user direct, if it wasn't for them helping us, our core games would have gone the way of Specialist Games by now! Stop thinking it's funny to give them a wedgie with every new release, or they'll stop ordering from us and go to one of our competitors instead."
I thought £50 for the new Rip(off)Tide was bad enough, but £70 on the Eldar Wraithknight? What 12 year old kid has that sort of money to throw down, even if the size of it means it's better value than the Riptide? FLGS discounts on GW prices are the only way I could afford to buy any more models from them now, and in the last 12 months I have found models that are superior in detail, design, and background to GW models - even taking into account the leap forward GW plastics, or some of them at least, have taken themselves in the last few years.
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"Ask ten different scientists about the environment, population control, genetics, and you'll get ten different answers, but there's one thing every scientist on the planet agrees on. Whether it happens in a hundred years or a thousand years or a million years, eventually our Sun will grow cold and go out. When that happens, it won't just take us. It'll take Marilyn Monroe, and Lao-Tzu, and Einstein, and Morobuto, and Buddy Holly, and Aristophanes…then all of this…all of this…was for nothing. Unless we go to the stars." Commander sinclair, Babylon 5.
Bobtheinquisitor wrote:what is going on with APAC shipping? If Macross Island were real, they'd be the last place to get any Robotechnology. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/25 11:04:22
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch
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Shandara wrote:
Claim by the Combat Company in the first post of this thread. So it must be true!
"Maybe we’ll be able to get 4 of 300 sets that are being brought into Australia. That’s less than 1% of what’s being imported – compared to the whopping 33% they are apparently withholding for their bricks-and-mortar stores and 33% for their Internet and mailorder"
So when you divvy up the 1/3 of it to all the stores, how many GW stores are their cos id say aus/nz has twice as many FLGS as their is B&M GW stores so if each store were to get the same stock levels.... then GW would be taking a lot less than 1/3 for their own stores then ANOTHER 1/3 for their own direct online sales.... because lets be honest the local stores here are gonna get the shaft if at best they can fill agian lets say 1/3 of all orders per store and GW has heeeaaaps of left over stock from it with holding 66% internally.
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6000+ Pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/25 11:10:25
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Nimble Dark Rider
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ausYenLoWang wrote: Shandara wrote:
Claim by the Combat Company in the first post of this thread. So it must be true!
"Maybe we’ll be able to get 4 of 300 sets that are being brought into Australia. That’s less than 1% of what’s being imported – compared to the whopping 33% they are apparently withholding for their bricks-and-mortar stores and 33% for their Internet and mailorder"
So when you divvy up the 1/3 of it to all the stores, how many GW stores are their cos id say aus/nz has twice as many FLGS as their is B&M GW stores so if each store were to get the same stock levels.... then GW would be taking a lot less than 1/3 for their own stores then ANOTHER 1/3 for their own direct online sales.... because lets be honest the local stores here are gonna get the shaft if at best they can fill agian lets say 1/3 of all orders per store and GW has heeeaaaps of left over stock from it with holding 66% internally.
If they force FLGS's to order a minimum amount of stock ( a large amount of stock at that ) and encouraging stores to purchase more on the basis that these stores must support the launch, then perhaps these delays will constitute GW failing in their contractual obligations?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/25 17:50:26
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Conrad Turner wrote:I have found models that are superior in detail, design, and background to GW models
Out of interest what models have superior background to GW? Say what you like about GW but the one thing you cannot dispute is the lore of the 2 game universes. Other than historicals (which obviously come with the background of the entire earth up to that point) I can't think of a single company that comes anywhere near to GW in lore (though I admit some are working towards it)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/25 17:50:52
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/25 19:15:21
Subject: Re:The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Now if only independents worldwide would unite together at the same time and go on the attack...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/25 19:26:54
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Zealous Sin-Eater
Chico, CA
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Stranger83 wrote: Conrad Turner wrote:I have found models that are superior in detail, design, and background to GW models
Out of interest what models have superior background to GW? Say what you like about GW but the one thing you cannot dispute is the lore of the 2 game universes. Other than historicals (which obviously come with the background of the entire earth up to that point) I can't think of a single company that comes anywhere near to GW in lore (though I admit some are working towards it)
The amount of lore, has nothing to do with how good it is.
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Peter: As we all know, Christmas is that mystical time of year when the ghost of Jesus rises from the grave to feast on the flesh of the living! So we all sing Christmas Carols to lull him back to sleep.
Bob: Outrageous, How dare he say such blasphemy. I've got to do something.
Man #1: Bob, there's nothing you can do.
Bob: Well, I guess I'll just have to develop a sense of humor. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 01:18:03
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Battleship Captain
The Land of the Rising Sun
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Conrad Turner wrote:
As I understand it, the main discrepancy in how GW treats it's FLGS customers is through the T&C's it lays out. To be a retail customer (As opposed to an End User customer like me going into either a GW or FLGS) you must agree to buy X base packs and probably Y extra packs. And right at the time the retail customer expects to make the best return for his custom with GW throughout the rest of the year, GW says "Sorry, can't garantee your order (unless you'd like to go to your nearest GW store and buy them there). That stinks!
This is were The Combat Company might have a chance if they do follow on their announcement. This is not a question if GW is a monopoly, the evil empire or the illuminaty, it's a very simple issue if as Conrad said their terms of contract force shops to buy a certain minimum stock of every release GWs does. Supplying their own shops at the expense of the indies and having a sales rep say that due to some undisclosed reasons (assuming is not force majuere) they won't fulfill their side of the bargain would put GW in breach of contract and as such the shops can ask for damages in most countries I know.
Ofc if they wnd up in front of a judge, GW lawyers will argue otherwise and that pitch black is not exactly black but that's why they are paid.
M.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Stranger83 wrote: Conrad Turner wrote:I have found models that are superior in detail, design, and background to GW models
Out of interest what models have superior background to GW? Say what you like about GW but the one thing you cannot dispute is the lore of the 2 game universes. Other than historicals (which obviously come with the background of the entire earth up to that point) I can't think of a single company that comes anywhere near to GW in lore (though I admit some are working towards it)
Mutant Chronicles: Warzone had at it's heyday a pretty extensive and detailed background.
M.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/26 01:19:17
Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
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About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 04:01:21
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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H.B.M.C. wrote:So a business having a legitimate grievance with its supplier is nothing but some "manchildren" that are "throwing a tantrum"?
That is what the white knights will say of course.
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Also, how does one apply to be a member of the Ultramodrines? Are harsh trials involved, ones that would test my faith as a wargamer and resolve as a geek?
You must recite every rule of Dakka Dakka. BACKWARDS.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 04:16:53
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought
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Every once and a while GW likes to test the waters:
Do not supply on release day for new codex XXXXXXX to the local stores and fully stock the GW stores.
Are sales going through the roof? = Success! new business model of no supply to local hobby stores.
Are sales really bad? = Grudgingly supply the local stores. Tell them how lucky they are to get the stock that was "found".
Many stores are FAR more capable of selling the product than GW is. If they eventually figure out they are not competitors but great resources to be exploited,,, err,... "utilized" they would see a nice happy spike on their profitability graph.
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A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 04:30:46
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Pious Warrior Priest
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Surely, if they actually wanted to hurt GW, they'd switch to heavily promoting PP or Mantic with their resources instead rather than going off on a pointless lawsuit that they'll probably lose?
It's not like they don't have options, the wargaming world is not GW or nothing like it was a decade ago.
There's a FLGS almost right next to the GW store where I live. It doesn't sell GW. It does stock Warmachine, Mantic, and a ton of different board and card games, though.
There's always more people in the FLGS than there is in the GW store which looks pretty much barren and empty most of the time compared to the "crammed with kids to the point where you couldn't move" state it was in a decade ago.
It's just anecdotal, but there's a lot of people who just don't care all that much about the whole GW thing anymore (and no, you won't find them whining about prices, or ranting on forums, people who are just apathetic/indifferent/disinterested don't bother)... I know a lot of people in their early 20's who have moved on to CCG's or other stuff mostly and don't haven't used their 40k armies in years, even if they still read the books and enjoy the background.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2013/05/26 04:39:50
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 04:39:44
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Nimble Dark Rider
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scarletsquig wrote:Surely, if they actually wanted to hurt GW, they'd switch to heavily promoting PP or Mantic with their resources instead rather than going off on a pointless lawsuit that they'll probably lose?
It's not like they don't have options, the wargaming world is not GW or nothing like it was a decade ago.
There's a FLGS almost right next to the GW store where I live. It doesn't sell GW. It does stock Warmachine, Mantic, and a ton of different board and card games, though.
A few things.
1. Theres no telling if they will win or lose. Theres no "Probably" here, I believe that there are untested waters they can explore under Australian law. But GW doesn't have a record of winning lawsuits in Australia that would point to an automatic outcome.
2. These guys don't seem to be promoting anything, they are simply an online retailer trying to get the best outcome for their customers, which is a good thing. I would love for them to go completely without GW product, but we cant argue for their exact business case, they might (like those American stores with the semi recent GW troubles) rely on GW sales for a large part of their income.
If I had pre ordered an eldar battleforce with these guys, I would be far happier with "We are following up with GW using all available methods, including legal options, to get you your product" than "gak, hey. Your order isn't here, why not have some war machine".
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 04:44:44
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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scarletsquig wrote:Surely, if they actually wanted to hurt GW, they'd switch to heavily promoting PP or Mantic with their resources instead rather than going off on a pointless lawsuit that they'll probably lose?
It's not like they don't have options, the wargaming world is not GW or nothing like it was a decade ago.
Well. I see your point on this, don't get me wrong. But lets say that some non-trivial percentage of all their sales is GWS stock. Lets say 30%. Should they just forgo 30% of their sales due to what they consider are unlawful trading practices? What if that 30% is the margin of viability for them? Should they essentially be forced out of business due to a supplier acting (allegedly) unlawfully?
Because if it's staying open, or closing up shop and seizing the moral high ground...
I don't see any reason why they shouldn't do several things at once. Reduce GWS stock to the minimum they need to not lose market share, sue if they think they can prevail, and slowly push harder on non GWS merch.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 10:07:17
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Fixture of Dakka
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I thought they did say that they were stopping promotion/advertisement of GW stuff and were looking to focus on other companies.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 10:39:18
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
West Midlands (UK)
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scarletsquig wrote:Surely, if they actually wanted to hurt GW, they'd switch to heavily promoting PP or Mantic with their resources instead rather than going off on a pointless lawsuit that they'll probably lose?
It's not like they don't have options, the wargaming world is not GW or nothing like it was a decade ago.
Still have to consider the scale GW has in comparison. MiniWarGaming, for example, was rather frank about saying that there'd be no point in running an online-store without GW for example. And they did/do have their premium video-channel and their own miniatures-line to bolster the thin retail-margins. Most retails or e-tailers don't.
I was at GW's UK Games Day last September. The NEC already IS the largest convention centre in the UK and the 2nd largest in Europe. Some 15.000 people capacity and it was packed(!). GBP 30,- just to get in. Angron and that GBP 60,- (?) Horus Heresy book sold out in the first few hours. People were queuing for 2-3 hours just to buy regular GW-stuff (like bags full of IG Chimeras) at full retail. GW couldn've easily filled a larger venue if one existed.
I am willing to bet that GW made more money on that single day in the UK alone than all CMON and Mantic Kickstarter taken together.
I also was at Mantic open day, which indubitably was an awesome event. But it had about 150 visitors max. In an old surgery centre.
GW still is a very different ball-park, far more than the relative strong online-presence of Mantic, PP, Wyrd, etc.. (compared to the inept online-marketing of GW) would lead you to believe.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/26 10:46:45
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 11:37:47
Subject: Re:The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
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Actually GW is even way bigger than all competitors put together and that includes Warlord Games, Prtivateer Press and Battlefront.
If they force FLGS's to order a minimum amount of stock ( a large amount of stock at that ) and encouraging stores to purchase more on the basis that these stores must support the launch, then perhaps these delays will constitute GW failing in their contractual obligations?
That´s where it gets interesting. I can confirm that at least in my neck of the woods FLGS and wholesalers are contractually oblieged to order a certain amount of miniatures. Ironically there´s also a top limit of how often and how much they can order. BUT, we also experienced the Tau stock debacle to some degree. So there is quite some orchestrating how much anyone else besides GW gets. And the way it is orchestrated is what stinks. Now, does it stink enough to be legally relevant or do they make use of a legal loophole? Cause any way you look at it, is not what is considered fair business practice.
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André Winter L'Art Noir - Game Design and Translation Studio |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 11:53:13
Subject: Re:The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Well as a new member here (hi all) i'd like to comment on this
I am an ex-GW employee (worked in Nottingham factory for several years) then a GW store manager for 3 years and finally an ex indy store owner, reading this thread has brought out some hilarious comments from people who know nothing about being a store owner. I feel the combat company have raised a serious point here but whether or not GW will actually do anything, it's anyones guess.
As an indy retailer, if you want to start trading with GW (UK) then It's a £2k credit limit to new accounts with the first order of £500 minimum.....what does £2k buy you ? 40, maybe 50 boxes? when i had used my £2k credit limit and wanted to buy more stock and pay cash, yes cash!!, even though i had stock with 30 days from end of month on credit, i still had to clear my account and then i could order more. I wasn't forced to take minimum orders on the bulk of their products though (there are a couple of items you do) besides trying to get multiple items is difficult to say the least but as an indy store owner the only items you get to stock are roughly 30% of what they have as a range now. I used to get a 15 page stocklist printed off and regularly went through it all marking off what i wanted, the last stocklist i got was 2 pages! I remember indys stocking Necromunda, Man O'War, BFG and Warmaster way back but now.......just have a chuckle instead
The GW stock available to indys:-
1. The paint range (literally heavy & hard sales pressure to stock the hobby centre!!) likewise the "offer just for me! buy a full set of paints and get another full set absolutely free!!" fantastic offer if i may say so but only up until the point when a few weeks later they announce their "new" paint range....your free stock just got trashed. And of course if you wanted the new paint stock, the old stock had to go to fit the new stock in the hobby centre......
2. The "fast movers" yeah right, try buying some of the really fast movers and it's "sorry, out of stock" or "they aren't available to indys" Heres a good example of a "fast seller"....i was out of stock of Ork Loota/Burnas so to fill a customer order i nipped into the next town and bought one from the GW store. Hmm... several labels on it...Top price label £15.50...label underneath £15.00, label underneath £13.50 and last label underneath £12.00........fast selling item indeed!
3. White Dwarf - again a hard sell to get you to take them but they do give a sale or return on them (min 6 issues)
4. When it was the norm, trying to buy metal in blisters for stock was a lucky dip, the splash releases were a nightmare too. Even when i asked for some more blister hangers for the racks, i was quizzed as to what i was going to put on them (says it all really)
5. With new releases on the schedule i would take pre-orders then try to fill them. Not a chance. The usual carry on was If i wanted 12, i got 4, if i wanted 6, i got 2, always 1/3 of what i wanted and usually a couple of days after their own stores got them thus cutting me out of the loop for new release day sales. Their own shops were often selling the new releases several days BEFORE they were released!
6. Online sales were a slap in the face!. I had a website and decent Ebay presence and sold a fair bit through them both then came the "no longer allowed to sell online via auction sites" The rep threatened me, said i would lose my account if i did. My own websales were fine but not Ebay etc. Funnily enough though i still see MANY indys selling through Ebay, yet i was the one threatened...hmm...to be honest though, any clown offering GW stock at a discount with free postage on Ebay needs their head examined. Item sold in shop cost £6.66, resale £10, profit £3.34. Sell same item on Ebay with 10% discount you get £8.60 back (fees are 10% & 40p listing as buy now) then its minus the paypal fees of a couple of % then the finale....free postage! hmm, explain to me how you can post the item for free and yet still make a profit? all good and well if you are a power seller and have generous discounts and a postal service contract but the fact remains, no shop will stay in business making less than 10% profit on any item. We all know what happened to Maelstrom Games don't we....
7. When the finecrap came out, trying to get anything off them was really difficult, irrespective of quality issues, why give me a 200+ item stocklist and tell me i could only order 30 items? oh and try sending something back for replacement.....nightmare!
8. Of course, the minute i started putting a dent in my nearest GW shop sales, the complaints started. Ficticious stories, lies and deceitful statements emanated from the local GW store to brainwash their customers into not coming to me. The biggest laugh i got was that i was seling "Stolen GW stock" Stolen from whom? it isnt and never has been worth stealing anything of GW's in my opinion lol. The usual stock deliveries started to take a little longer and there were often many items out of stock thus customers were disappointed which led to them buying online and not coming back so in the end, i just gave up. Anyway what with prices going through the roof, little return for the investment (I carried £15k of GW stock before i stopped it all) and just the hassle of actually trading with them put a sour taste in my mouth. Privateer weren't much better either. Out of stock and oftem mispacked figures were a waste of time. I tried using Simple Miniatures but they charged 5% more than dealing with the proper distributors then when i got a load of stock off them that was already price labelled, im like "WTF??" then i found out they had their own shop so it makes a mockery out of the whole industry when they get distributor price discountss and sell the stuff at retail making far more profit than the LGS ever could.
So...back to the thread now my rant is over lol... I quit the business that i built up over several years and made me maybe £650-700 profit for a good weeks take and after bills etc were paid, i had around half that to claim as a wage. That was 7 day week, opening 9am til 6pm (10pm tue/thu/fri) making a grand working week of 75 hours minimum! I would often get up early or stay in the shop after closing to pack internet and ebay sales and still open up if a customer needed something in the evening (my house was at the rear of the shop) and was frequently dragged out the local pub to open up for a sale! such was my customer service lol. But when you bring that profit down to £300-350 a week, it works out at around £4.00 per hour. Way below minimum wage too i must add. Selling up was a no brainer! there's now a pet store where my shop used to be and Theo, the owner actually plays Warmachine with his son lol! Me?, Nowadays, i'm on the road driving a delivery truck around southern England delivering dairy products, i earn £600 a week for a 48 hour week and i have my evenings and weekends off. no hassle, no customers, no complaints......a truly easier life!. I still play the odd game and paint minis as its something i've always done and i still like to keep up with what's happening in the gaming world but this i do with no worries now.
I do hope that the combat company will carry through their intended "legal action" as i would like to see how it goes but at the end of the day, you are dealing with GW, a company who have no business morals and will probably cut you off completely if you do go ahead. good luck!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 12:51:47
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Oberstleutnant
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Thanks for the rant, gave some good insight into the industry.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 14:28:54
Subject: Re:The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Fixture of Dakka
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To the people arguing "GW can do what they want with their products"
As a manufacturer and a retailer, you are correct. However, once they entered the WHOLESALE and DISTRIBUTOR market, that brings certain legal obligations to avoid favoring one client over any other... even the ones you own.
IF they find these obligations to be unfavorable, they should drop out of the wholesale and distributor business entirely, instead of this 'half-and-half strategy that a) is at best of borderline legality, and b) angers all your wholesale clients, to the point that many of them refuse to deal with you anymore. Stick to direct-order and supplying your own shops and you avoid the issue entirely.
It would be catastrophic for the players... but since when did GW ever care about them?
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CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 14:31:28
Subject: Re:The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 15:22:58
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Fixture of Dakka
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The point I'm taking from this is that GW has up until a couple of years ago, been supplying stores regularly with product. These stores are the livlihoods of the owners who helped GW grow it's business and build it's brand down there.
Now the rug is being pulled from under the FLGS's so GW can install it's own brick and mortar stores, taking advantage of all the sacrifice and groundwork that has gone before. This is destroying the livlihood of the store owners who in good faith heavily promoted GW and probably in a lot of cases, made it the major store brand.
It's definitly a rotten trick, having someone, at their own expence and risk, do all their advertising for them and leading them to believe theywould be able to reap the benifits, then turning around and cutting supply when demand has been created, thanks to the efforts of the FLGS's. Basically it seems they are killing off the local stores so they can make more profit by installing their own in an area that has been prepped by others.
I don't know law that well, or even if the scenario I outlined is correct. Any lawyers from down under think there is a case here if the way I laid it out is correct?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 18:52:52
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought
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My opinion:
I got into 40k primarily for the ease of finding a variety of opponents pretty much anywhere.
Availability of 40k at a FLGS is now drying up due to the stock issues.
Gaming at a GW site is discouraged.
Models are expensive so it eliminates many with less disposable income.
Hosted gaming by GW has been eliminated other than the occasional games day.
They are not hosting any forums or managing fan-base to have a "community".
They aggressively pursue anyone making use of their IP even as a fan.
Unless they back away from these methods I do not see a future in GW surviving, I see "Skylander" miniatures having more market-share.
I am trying to make use of what I have and avoid the new shiny models but I have multiple other game systems that deserve my money more.
I can see where they need to go so clearly and just cannot understand the silliness they are doing. Profits could be so much greater if they just partner with their customers and distributors.
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A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 19:13:38
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun
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nkelsch wrote: For example, you know if a Walmart decided, for example, they wanted to refuse service to anyone who appeared Haitian, you know that's not going to fly. And while that's not what happened here, it shows the principle that you can sell to - or not sell to - whomever you like to not all all be an absolute.
Correct. Because that's racial discrimination.
If Apple sends Best Buy a letter that states:
"Hey Best Buy. So the iPhone 6 is coming out. We're keeping 33% of the production run for apple.com, and 33% for our own apple stores. The remaining 33% will be distributed equally to all our third party vendors. That's you, Walmart, and anyone else who signed a contract.Stocks are going to be tight. Once production ramps up, expect more, but for the initial rollout, you're only likely to see 4 units per store. It'll generate some great consumer demand in your marketplace. Use it or lose it."
It's not unethical, or illegal, or anything other than sheer business practice. In fact, if they DIDN'T protect their own store inventories in this way, they'd run afoul of their own shareholders.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/26 19:15:47
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 20:02:31
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Zealous Sin-Eater
Chico, CA
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daemonhunter187 wrote:nkelsch wrote: For example, you know if a Walmart decided, for example, they wanted to refuse service to anyone who appeared Haitian, you know that's not going to fly. And while that's not what happened here, it shows the principle that you can sell to - or not sell to - whomever you like to not all all be an absolute.
Correct. Because that's racial discrimination.
If Apple sends Best Buy a letter that states:
"Hey Best Buy. So the iPhone 6 is coming out. We're keeping 33% of the production run for apple.com, and 33% for our own apple stores. The remaining 33% will be distributed equally to all our third party vendors. That's you, Walmart, and anyone else who signed a contract.Stocks are going to be tight. Once production ramps up, expect more, but for the initial rollout, you're only likely to see 4 units per store. It'll generate some great consumer demand in your marketplace. Use it or lose it."
It's not unethical, or illegal, or anything other than sheer business practice. In fact, if they DIDN'T protect their own store inventories in this way, they'd run afoul of their own shareholders.
Don't forget the part were apple says, "I know you have preorders and can sell it right know, but we are going to hold it in are wearhouse. Until someone buys it from us."
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Peter: As we all know, Christmas is that mystical time of year when the ghost of Jesus rises from the grave to feast on the flesh of the living! So we all sing Christmas Carols to lull him back to sleep.
Bob: Outrageous, How dare he say such blasphemy. I've got to do something.
Man #1: Bob, there's nothing you can do.
Bob: Well, I guess I'll just have to develop a sense of humor. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 20:30:10
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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There is a somewhat related story in North Carolina, where the state passed a law that prevents the Tesla car company from using its website to sell cars in the state if it does not have licensed dealerships there. It seems that the government is concerned that companies will cut out local dealerships by selling direct to consumers, and in so doing harm consumers. The argument is that local stores support the community in various ways.
Regardless of where you stand on that debate, it seems rather clear to me that the obvious thing to do if you are a retailer is not to deal with GW. Sales of GW products may be important to the business, but you can't sell products that they will not supply to you. It is probably best to just cut them off, and push other products.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 22:14:38
Subject: The Combat Company considering legal action against GW due to mistreatment of wholesale customers.
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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Whether their action is legal or now will depend on exactly how local law is worded (national and/or state where appropriate)
It's clear it's NOT a deliberate move against (only) Australian stores as reports have come in from the United States and the UK of potential shortages of stock for the upcoming Eldar
(and the shortages for the Tau hit GW stores and online as well as independent stockist... although it certainly look like GW store shortages well less than that felt by independent stores)
It's also going to be important to consider how the independants involved get their stock (GW only has a relationship with stores that buy from them direct)
if there are a hypothetical 50 GW stores somewhere and 150 independants, but 100 of those buy their stock from distributors the ratio of GW to Independent would be 1 to 1 (not 1 to 4)
so it's not impossible that a 1/3 to GW, 1/3 to the independents split might be reasonable (I don't know the numbers, so I can't say for sure)
Some legal systems will see the stock going to GW (internet) as separate from that going to the stores, others may not (depending on laws & how the businesses are organised)
Plus of cource the individual contract signed between GW and each individual business (what they have to stock, if they are guaranteed any product when the order it, order limits etc)
So while it's clearly a bad situation (especially for independents who look like not getting the stock they wanted) it's going to be very tricky to figure out whether it's legal or not and doubly hard if we don't know the Australian legal system inside out)
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