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So I am, perhaps foolishly attending a tournament with my recently updated Eldar, next weekend.

I have purchased a Wraithknight, and he will definitely be a prized item in my collection. But I am wondering, does he actually have a role in the competitive scene?

I am planning to model mine with the suncannon, and SL. That's ~295 points. for 3 S6 Ap2 TL Small blasts.

For 295 points, I can get a Wraithlord (SL and skyfire EML) and a squad of guardians to objective camp. Perhaps more useful. Or any other number of potentially more useful combinations.

The knight is a big, badass looking model, who can probably take a pounding. I want my opponent to shoot at him. This is how I played my wraithlords in the old codex. I want shots to go towards them. But will I regret taking him?

What are peoples thoughts? Good? Useless?

Where's my codex. that's my thought.

Who knows? Can we see the codex first?

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Where's my codex. that's my thought.

'

Well, I guess i've spent a lil more time delving into the internet to find such things. 4chan had a bunch of scans posted for a while.

Given my situation, i've been searching high and low for as much information as I can

I don't think it will have a remotely controlling role that the other big MCs have. It's too tall to get a good cover save, it has no invul save in its base loadout, it has a 3+ AS and it has no cover ignoring template weapon. Additionally, it has base rules that make no sense such as a +1S sword (compared to dreadknight which lets you reroll hits, wounds and armor pen) and the ability to take 4 guns but can only fire 2.. Yes, you don't have to take 4 guns but WHY is it even an option? The WK screams to me of a unit that was very very quickly done and not play tested.

T8 doesn't mean a lot when people will be shooting it with rending, poison and anti tank weapons since it's simply too big and too expensive and lacks a 2+ save. I figured it would come with titan holo fields to give it a good cover save, however, I was mistaken.. it gets nothing.

These are some pretty huge deficiencies compared to the riptide and dreadknight (yes I know the riptide needs marker lights to ignore cover, but that shouldn't be an issue).

All in all, I feel it's too expensive to fulfill a competitive role.

2 of them on a skyshield=win. problem solved. Also, they can stand in area terrain for a 5+ because of the changes in 6th.

T8 simply means they need to take the AT fire off tanks. I plan on running 2 with 2 warp hunters and advancing the wraithknight to make them a threat. T8 also means they can take down just about any infantry squad. Even powerfists are going to be underwhelming.

Nope, gonna be dead on the first turn.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Nope, gonna be dead on the first turn.

How very insightful of you. Thanks for stopping by.

Quick question, what exactly is going to make it dead? And even then, my opponent just wasted every shot in his list making it so, while all my fragile and shooty stuff is still on the table.

Things such as lascannons and missle launchers are about the best thing around to make it dead. But as BS 4, you'd need 6*1.5(cover/invulsave)*2(T8)*1.5(BS4) = 27 krak missles shot at him to take him out. Your average Longfang spam list can't even manage that.

Lascannons? 6*1.5(coversave/invul)*1.5(T8)*1.5(BS4) = 20.25 lascannons.

My first thought on it was - everything on the table will be taking a shot at it as soon as possible, and like Kirasu said, it's going to have a tough time with unreliable cover and no invuln. This in and of itself might not be that bad if it was a cheaper model because there would other forces on the table that could take advantage but as it is it's going to be a very large sink.

Belly wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Where's my codex. that's my thought.

'

Well, I guess i've spent a lil more time delving into the internet to find such things. 4chan had a bunch of scans posted for a while.

Given my situation, i've been searching high and low for as much information as I can

Is life this short that we can't wait to see the codex and see how it performs in a game? Really?

I don't understand people's opinion that it'll die quickly. I can get an invul save easily, and putting a tiny part of the base into area terrain gives it a 5+. That's not unreliable at all.

As I mentioned, I don't have any issue with my opponent shooting at it. I found the same with my wraithlords, the more they get shot, the less my other more important stuff is getting shot.

Just trying to provide some counterpoints


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Belly wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Where's my codex. that's my thought.

'

Well, I guess i've spent a lil more time delving into the internet to find such things. 4chan had a bunch of scans posted for a while.

Given my situation, i've been searching high and low for as much information as I can

Is life this short that we can't wait to see the codex and see how it performs in a game? Really?

Yes. My original post mentions why. Because I have a tournament to attend in a week, and I'd love to do well with the new codex.

It's a durable unit but I can't see it making its points back. The damage output seems to be too small compared to say two fire prisms. The potential is there and if you have a psyker healing his wounds he could be annoying.

That being said he doesn't have enough shooting or close combat potential in my eyes to,justify the cost.

Now lower point games I can see him being a monster house just because he only needs to hit certain units but in games of 1850 or 2000 I don't think it will be worth it.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Nope, gonna be dead on the first turn.

My beast hunter shells agree with you.

Ya'll gonna be pissed when a pod full of sternguards BOOM HEADSHOT those big dorky knights turn 1.

am planning to model mine with the suncannon, and SL. That's ~295 points. for 3 S6 Ap2 TL Small blasts.

Well, that's too expensive. Three small blasts are not worth it. On average, two will scatter about 3''.

I think people are dramatically underestimating the resiliency of T8 and W6, particularly when you can heal it's wounds via Locks. You can torrent down a Riptide with small arms fire, small arms fire can't even touch the WK. That's a pretty massive difference.

Ya'll gonna be pissed when a pod full of sternguards BOOM HEADSHOT those big dorky knights turn 1.

I find this proposition unlikely. It takes 27 Plasma shots on average to kill a WK. I'm not aware of a single unit that can pull this off. Oh, and this is assuming no Invuln or Cover....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Well, that's too expensive. Three small blasts are not worth it. On average, two will scatter about 3''.

If you throw on a Scatter Laser the shots are likely to be twinlinked. The sun cannon is expensive but that is the one way I see running it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Well, that's too expensive. Three small blasts are not worth it. On average, two will scatter about 3''.



If you throw on a Scatter Laser the shots are likely to be twinlinked. The sun cannon is expensive but that is the one way I see running it.

Well, I don't have the codex yet. But from what I know is that the WK's base cost is 240 pts. I don't see the 55 pts being justifed.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, that's too expensive. Three small blasts are not worth it. On average, two will scatter about 3''.

Nope, with twin-linked from the scatter laser, 1.333/3 will scatter 3 inches.

And droppodding sternguard is the one thing i'd like my opponent to throw at it. HOW many points was that I get to kill for first blood?

Another advantage of the Suncannon is it's range. Keeping the WK at 47.9" will make him very difficult to deal with for most lists.

Ghostglaive/Scattershield Scatter Laser Star Cannon also seems like an interesting build.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Another advantage of the Suncannon is it's range. Keeping the WK at 47.9" will make him very difficult to deal with for most lists.

Ghostglaive/Scattershield Scatter Laser Star Cannon also seems like an interesting build.

Well, if you keep the WK in your backfield, you'll play it in a wrong way. This guy is also decent in cc mostly against troop units. I'd stay away from large (fearless) mobs or broods where it will get stuck, or from Assault Termies.

 wuestenfux wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Another advantage of the Suncannon is it's range. Keeping the WK at 47.9" will make him very difficult to deal with for most lists.

Ghostglaive/Scattershield Scatter Laser Star Cannon also seems like an interesting build.

Well, if you keep the WK in your backfield, you'll play it in a wrong way. This guy is also decent in cc mostly against troop units. I'd stay away from large (fearless) mobs or broods where it will get stuck, or from Assault Termies.

Yeah, you're probably right. It doesn't give him the option to stay clear of death stars while he bombards them though.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Another advantage of the Suncannon is it's range. Keeping the WK at 47.9" will make him very difficult to deal with for most lists.

Ghostglaive/Scattershield Scatter Laser Star Cannon also seems like an interesting build.

Well, if you keep the WK in your backfield, you'll play it in a wrong way. This guy is also decent in cc mostly against troop units. I'd stay away from large (fearless) mobs or broods where it will get stuck, or from Assault Termies.

Yeah, you're probably right. It doesn't give him the option to stay clear of death stars while he bombards them though.

Well, I'd keep the upgrades for him to a minimum and throw him in front of your army whenever possible. The enemy will need time to deal with him. In the meantime you could go for his throat. This should work at least in theory, but probably not with Eldar which I think is one of the worst armies out there.

Well, I'd keep the upgrades for him to a minimum and throw him in front of your army whenever possible. The enemy will need time to deal with him. In the meantime you could go for his throat. This should work at least in theory, but probably not with Eldar which I think is one of the worst armies out there.

You mean the codex that most people have yet to play a single game out of is probably the worst armies out there?

Wow.

Before you get too anxious, you have checked with your TO to make sure he will be allowing the new book, right? In my experience, new codexes are usually not allowed into tournaments when they first break, as familiarity would be limited and FAQs yet to drop.

Just a thought before you bombard us with questions we can't answer...

Now kids, in my day MC spam was a tyranid thing, now everyone's got some, often bigger, tougher, and stronger than ours.

Anyway, my Stonecrushers should mash up that giant quite well.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Before you get too anxious, you have checked with your TO to make sure he will be allowing the new book, right? In my experience, new codexes are usually not allowed into tournaments when they first break, as familiarity would be limited and FAQs yet to drop.

I have. It's fine.

With no 2+ save and only a 5+ invul from an upgrade, I'll be keeping mine in cover mostly, maybe with a warlock/farseer nearby for Shrouding.

 Shandara wrote:
With no 2+ save and only a 5+ invul from an upgrade, I'll be keeping mine in cover mostly, maybe with a warlock/farseer nearby for Shrouding.

On the other hand, with t8 only Dark Eldar, Immortals, Eldar with bladestorm guns, and Fire warriors can hurt it with their basic guns as far as troops go. And also plasma weapons are wounding at a 5+ at best, and tau plasma rifles are nearly useless, wounding at a measly 6+. Krak missiles and Lascannons though will have a field day with this thing.

Maybe take several warlocks, and try to get the healing psychic power.

Then have those warlocks stand around near the Wraithknights and heal them as they take damage.

Think about the unheard of Sniper Drone team in Tau, when you take the wraithknight.

at 24" there's a potential 27 shots at BS5, all of which wound your knight on 4+.

That's 22.5 hits

11.25 wounds, with about 2 rends.

I don't know about the wraithknights saves, but from what I've heard they're only save 3+ with no invulnerable save.

that means you'll take 2 wounds + 3 failed saves. If the wraithknight doesn't have more than six wounds, he's toast to me.