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 Spartan089 wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:

 Spartan089 wrote:

 zephoid wrote:
2 of them on a skyshield=win. problem solved. Also, they can stand in area terrain for a 5+ because of the changes in 6th.

T8 simply means they need to take the AT fire off tanks. I plan on running 2 with 2 warp hunters and advancing the wraithknight to make them a threat. T8 also means they can take down just about any infantry squad. Even powerfists are going to be underwhelming.

No offense, but if anyone ever tried to do that I would never play against them, those kinda tactics scream TFG. I understand RAW but thats too much of a stretch. Sadly I know many will probably argue the area terrain thing, and will try to claim a cover save for this thing in something like a crater that barely covers it's feet.

Yea, wouldn't want to play against people who use Area Terrain...

Before I come off too snooty. There are no exemptions for the size of the model in area terrain. It is a valid way to get around AP3 weapons.

Granted I understand its clear rule, but due to the size of the model some common sense should be exercised, and as someone suggested I would talk to the opponent before the match to see what counts as area terrain in terms of a unit that big. Same with the sky shield tactic .

Sir if you say your tank can get a save from it. And my giant robot can't you go be that TFG else where. Seriously, i shouldn't have to model my GIANT ROBOT crouching to get some decent saves logically. Talk about limiting my creativity with a giant model, all because you have a rules scuff. And if my GIANT robot wants to use a sky shield as a shield - i am damn well going to model this, and laugh. Size is unimportant for cover, you should be happy you can always shoot the stupid thing.

Seriously though the rules are clear, and if you don't like it, dont shoot it, it doesn't put out a dangerous amount of world ending fire power.

Winged Daemon Prince with Balesword.

Catch it easy, swing first, wound on 4+, Ap2, instant death.

Between Wraithknights, Dreadknights, and Riptides, my Nurgle Daemon prince model is getting dusted off and returned to the table.

It is just too expensive for its output. Its basic weapons are reasonably okay anti-tank but with moderate Bs and no mechanism to ignore cover, its not going to be popping heavy armour at a whim.

The suncannon is cute but most opponents will just hug cover. The suncannon add on takes it up to 280 and adding a scatter laser for the re-rolls takes it to an even 300. That is not worth it for 3 weak plasma cannon shots. For the same cost you could get 10 dark reapers which would pump 20 bs4 str5 ap3 shots that ignore jink into the opponent. That's much cooler.

With 4 attacks and ws4 unless it has a ghost glaive (dear god why would you do that) you're putting two hits on a squad in close combat. Needless to say it you ever throw it forward the opponent is just going to tarpit it.

I like the model but in most circumstances I see a pair of wraithlords outperforming it easily.

If you're going to one run at all, I'd go default equipment and use it to hunt light enemy armour. Just pray the opponent pays attention to it.

 zephoid wrote:

The skyshield is even MORE explicit in its rules. EVERYTHING gets a 4++ inside it, even in melee. This includes tanks or MCs.

Only when the doors are up. Anybody know if you can fit one of those huge bases inside a skyshield with the doors up?

Wraithknight I see as an anchor/counter assault while it pounds away with its suncannons.

The real killers in the new dex is the Shadow Weavers, Wave Serpents, Dark Reapers, and Jet Bikes.

Seriously Eldar can out artillery anyone w/ the Vauls Work batteries.

 agnosto wrote:

 zephoid wrote:

The skyshield is even MORE explicit in its rules. EVERYTHING gets a 4++ inside it, even in melee. This includes tanks or MCs.

Only when the doors are up. Anybody know if you can fit one of those huge bases inside a skyshield with the doors up?

It definitely can, you can probably fit 2 of them up there.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 zephoid wrote:

The skyshield is even MORE explicit in its rules. EVERYTHING gets a 4++ inside it, even in melee. This includes tanks or MCs.

Only when the doors are up. Anybody know if you can fit one of those huge bases inside a skyshield with the doors up?

It definitely can, you can probably fit 2 of them up there.

Cool, didn't realize the skyshield was that big.

Belly wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Nope, gonna be dead on the first turn.

How very insightful of you. Thanks for stopping by.

Quick question, what exactly is going to make it dead? And even then, my opponent just wasted every shot in his list making it so, while all my fragile and shooty stuff is still on the table.

Things such as lascannons and missle launchers are about the best thing around to make it dead. But as BS 4, you'd need 6*1.5(cover/invulsave)*2(T8)*1.5(BS4) = 27 krak missles shot at him to take him out. Your average Longfang spam list can't even manage that.

Lascannons? 6*1.5(coversave/invul)*1.5(T8)*1.5(BS4) = 20.25 lascannons.

Well, each Venom with double Splinter Cannons is putting about 1.5 saved wounds on it. So I guess you're fine unless you play an opponent who has a few Venoms. That's just at 36". Once you get to 24", Warriors are going to bend that Wraith Knight over.

MC w/ 3+ save = dead on the first turn.

 cormadepanda wrote:

 Spartan089 wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:

 Spartan089 wrote:

 zephoid wrote:
2 of them on a skyshield=win. problem solved. Also, they can stand in area terrain for a 5+ because of the changes in 6th.

T8 simply means they need to take the AT fire off tanks. I plan on running 2 with 2 warp hunters and advancing the wraithknight to make them a threat. T8 also means they can take down just about any infantry squad. Even powerfists are going to be underwhelming.

No offense, but if anyone ever tried to do that I would never play against them, those kinda tactics scream TFG. I understand RAW but thats too much of a stretch. Sadly I know many will probably argue the area terrain thing, and will try to claim a cover save for this thing in something like a crater that barely covers it's feet.

Yea, wouldn't want to play against people who use Area Terrain...

Before I come off too snooty. There are no exemptions for the size of the model in area terrain. It is a valid way to get around AP3 weapons.

Granted I understand its clear rule, but due to the size of the model some common sense should be exercised, and as someone suggested I would talk to the opponent before the match to see what counts as area terrain in terms of a unit that big. Same with the sky shield tactic .

Sir if you say your tank can get a save from it. And my giant robot can't you go be that TFG else where. Seriously, i shouldn't have to model my GIANT ROBOT crouching to get some decent saves logically. Talk about limiting my creativity with a giant model, all because you have a rules scuff. And if my GIANT robot wants to use a sky shield as a shield - i am damn well going to model this, and laugh. Size is unimportant for cover, you should be happy you can always shoot the stupid thing.

Seriously though the rules are clear, and if you don't like it, dont shoot it, it doesn't put out a dangerous amount of world ending fire power.

I never said my tank could get a save from the sky shield, honestly the sky shield was intended for flyers and deepstrikers. When the sky shield came out I was excited at the prospect about using it for artillery but found that it was inherently unfair and was not intended for that use. Please excuse my arrogance for trying to have a semblance of realism and balance in this game.

Fortune and renewer will be the WKs best friend.

Also, if you want to take Scorpions or Banshees in Wave Serpents, a sword and board WK would make a pretty good running buddy.

On the topic of jaws:

I thought it makes it harder to kill MC's with it so it'd only fail on a 6 for an initiative test if it was I4.

Also, wouldn't runes of warding and DtW still be a big problem to get through? (did they change runes of warding?)

 tankboy145 wrote:

 Shandara wrote:

 tankboy145 wrote:
Seems like a scary model but if it has low initiative, Space wolf players are going to use jaws on these things all day.

Luckily it's Eldar so it's fast. And a Monstrous Creature to boot.

Doesnt matter how fast it is, a drop pod right in front of you means I hit you the line is also 24 inches, Im not sure it can get that far unless its a flier.

He means it has a high Initiative, which is good vs. JotWW.

Also if its going to be monstrous it will be -1 initiative.

It's -1 to the roll which makes it easier for the MC to pass it.

but if it really has a low leadership SW players wont care how big or scary he is.

you lost me as to how Ld matters for the Wolves in particular.

sudojoe wrote:I thought it makes it harder to kill MC's with it so it'd only fail on a 6 for an initiative test if it was I4.

You are correct. Tankboy is mistaken. Hopefully he doesn't play Wolves much...

You are correct. Tankboy is mistaken. Hopefully he doesn't play Wolves much...

phew, I thought I was going crazy there for a sec and was misplaying these past years.

Also apparently runes of warding are gone now so forget what I wrote up there. Can get a 3+ DtW with some fancy artifact though.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:

 tankboy145 wrote:

 Shandara wrote:

 tankboy145 wrote:
Seems like a scary model but if it has low initiative, Space wolf players are going to use jaws on these things all day.

Luckily it's Eldar so it's fast. And a Monstrous Creature to boot.

Doesnt matter how fast it is, a drop pod right in front of you means I hit you the line is also 24 inches, Im not sure it can get that far unless its a flier.

He means it has a high Initiative, which is good vs. JotWW.

Also if its going to be monstrous it will be -1 initiative.

It's -1 to the roll which makes it easier for the MC to pass it.

but if it really has a low leadership SW players wont care how big or scary he is.

you lost me as to how Ld matters for the Wolves in particular.

sudojoe wrote:I thought it makes it harder to kill MC's with it so it'd only fail on a 6 for an initiative test if it was I4.

You are correct. Tankboy is mistaken. Hopefully he doesn't play Wolves much...

My bad I read that backwards and figured it was easier but no I do not play wolves often I just started playing them as allies about a few months ago.

Also for the Ld part I did mean initiative, I was thinking of something else at the same time lol.

I think a lot of people are looking at it the wrong way. Of course, it has counters, snipers, poison etc etc. Every unit does.

However, the real question, is if it's cost is worth the firepower it puts out-I say not even close. In it's base configuration, it gets two strength 10 shots a turn, which would be great if you're seeing a lot of vehicles, or this was 5th, but against such an infantry heavy meta it's not that good. Even if it survives the whole game, those strength 10 shots are just not worth it's cost. The Suncannon upgrade, makes it nearly 300 points. You get a much more meta-suited weapon, but You're almost 1/4th of your points on a single model at that point. Honestly though, I don't feel that Eldar are going to really have any problem with infantry. With Psuado-rending on most every weapon. Another thing it has going against it, is the fact that there are so many good units in the HS section. You can get almost two prisms for the cost of a single base Wraith Knight, and they can perform both Anti-tank and Anti-infantry. The Nightspinner is also really good, even the support weapons are great.


Overall, the Wraith Knight is plenty survivable. It just lacks the firepower that comes with it's huge pricetag.

 Sasori wrote:
I think a lot of people are looking at it the wrong way. Of course, it has counters, snipers, poison etc etc. Every unit does.

However, the real question, is if it's cost is worth the firepower it puts out-I say not even close. In it's base configuration, it gets two strength 10 shots a turn, which would be great if you're seeing a lot of vehicles, or this was 5th, but against such an infantry heavy meta it's not that good. Even if it survives the whole game, those strength 10 shots are just not worth it's cost. The Suncannon upgrade, makes it nearly 300 points. You get a much more meta-suited weapon, but You're almost 1/4th of your points on a single model at that point. Honestly though, I don't feel that Eldar are going to really have any problem with infantry. With Psuado-rending on most every weapon. Another thing it has going against it, is the fact that there are so many good units in the HS section. You can get almost two prisms for the cost of a single base Wraith Knight, and they can perform both Anti-tank and Anti-infantry. The Nightspinner is also really good, even the support weapons are great.


Overall, the Wraith Knight is plenty survivable. It just lacks the firepower that comes with it's huge pricetag.

Fair points Sasori.

The more I think about it, the more I think the best way to use it is aggressively (Sword and Board, maybe with some extra pewpew via SL+Some other Secondary weapon). Make it a target they have to deal with, and then back it up with fortune and renewer. Then you are actually getting mileage out of its legit resiliency. Also, if they don't deal with it, then they have an MC crushing through their lines.

Also, Wraithknight plus two Wraithlords in a Wraith list might be a good way to swarm your enemy with T6 and T8 targets. Get them shooting at the WK, and the rest of the Wraiths will be freer to do what they do.

It's too early to say how effective it will be. At this point it's still mostly speculation. It could be really good if it has the right synergy with other good units. At worst I don't think it will be all that bad. T8 is pretty darn good.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I think a lot of people are looking at it the wrong way. Of course, it has counters, snipers, poison etc etc. Every unit does.

However, the real question, is if it's cost is worth the firepower it puts out-I say not even close. In it's base configuration, it gets two strength 10 shots a turn, which would be great if you're seeing a lot of vehicles, or this was 5th, but against such an infantry heavy meta it's not that good. Even if it survives the whole game, those strength 10 shots are just not worth it's cost. The Suncannon upgrade, makes it nearly 300 points. You get a much more meta-suited weapon, but You're almost 1/4th of your points on a single model at that point. Honestly though, I don't feel that Eldar are going to really have any problem with infantry. With Psuado-rending on most every weapon. Another thing it has going against it, is the fact that there are so many good units in the HS section. You can get almost two prisms for the cost of a single base Wraith Knight, and they can perform both Anti-tank and Anti-infantry. The Nightspinner is also really good, even the support weapons are great.


Overall, the Wraith Knight is plenty survivable. It just lacks the firepower that comes with it's huge pricetag.

Fair points Sasori.

The more I think about it, the more I think the best way to use it is aggressively (Sword and Board, maybe with some extra pewpew via SL+Some other Secondary weapon). Make it a target they have to deal with, and then back it up with fortune and renewer. Then you are actually getting mileage out of its legit resiliency. Also, if they don't deal with it, then they have an MC crushing through their lines.

Also, Wraithknight plus two Wraithlords in a Wraith list might be a good way to swarm your enemy with T6 and T8 targets. Get them shooting at the WK, and the rest of the Wraiths will be freer to do what they do.

I personally think the Sword is the worst upgrade. It should do fine in Melee with it's base config, or suncannon for 40 points. It's not worth loosing it's ranged power, for a 5++, since you don't benefit the +1s for the Sword. I just wouldn't send it against actual dedicated close combat units.

 Sasori wrote:
I think a lot of people are looking at it the wrong way. Of course, it has counters, snipers, poison etc etc. Every unit does.

However, the real question, is if it's cost is worth the firepower it puts out-I say not even close. In it's base configuration, it gets two strength 10 shots a turn, which would be great if you're seeing a lot of vehicles, or this was 5th, but against such an infantry heavy meta it's not that good. Even if it survives the whole game, those strength 10 shots are just not worth it's cost. The Suncannon upgrade, makes it nearly 300 points. You get a much more meta-suited weapon, but You're almost 1/4th of your points on a single model at that point. Honestly though, I don't feel that Eldar are going to really have any problem with infantry. With Psuado-rending on most every weapon. Another thing it has going against it, is the fact that there are so many good units in the HS section. You can get almost two prisms for the cost of a single base Wraith Knight, and they can perform both Anti-tank and Anti-infantry. The Nightspinner is also really good, even the support weapons are great.


Overall, the Wraith Knight is plenty survivable. It just lacks the firepower that comes with it's huge pricetag.

I was thinking this as well, it's a pain to kill but its fire output is extremely weak... it's like a Tyrannofex.

Why does everyone base an argument off it being T8?
Is that really such a big thing?
So no triple wraithlord armies have been beaten before?


Its Large size is only beaten by its stupidly high points cost.
Its damage output really is bad to the point i'd consider ignoring it and firing at more worrying things, like dragons or reapers.

Its not toughness that makes a MC a scary prospect these days.

Its a mixture of its save (2+ is a nice start)
It needs a ++ save. (even a 5++ will do)
Needs to be fairly decent size so it can make use of cover.
Needs to be able to move quickly (wings or boosters, both work)
Needs to either be a menace in CC or shooting.

This thing really does not fill any of the criteria for being something special.
It simply stands there and causes a small quantity of damage while being shot at in return.
All this for the small cost of, well, i think its possibly the most expensive single model in 40k thus far in terms of monsters.

Riptide - It drops a hail of fire, it has impressive saves, it moves like a bat out of hell.
This thing is a beast in what it does. (avoiding combat and long range warfare)

Swarmlord - Just shy of the same points cost, except its one of/The best MC in CC.
Again, it has a job and it does it well.


This erm, thing?
It has no real job or idea what its ment to be doing.

I personally think the Sword is the worst upgrade. It should do fine in Melee with it's base config, or suncannon for 40 points. It's not worth loosing it's ranged power, for a 5++, since you don't benefit the +1s for the Sword. I just wouldn't send it against actual dedicated close combat units.

The sword is also mastercrafted, which helps. Its the only way to get the 5++ without spending another 30 on the Suncannon though. Although, if you turn around and get secondary weapons, that point becomes moot as well.

Good points though. Suncannon+SL might the best way to go. In an army with fortune I just can't see not getting it the 5++. And, as you said, in the current Meta the primary config is more limited on ideal targets. Vehicels, MCs, Quad Guns and artillery are probably the most relevant applications. T5/4 Multi-wound and FNP models are also generally pretty decent targets.

It's to bad you can't use the SL and fire all three weapons with the base config. That would be a pretty nasty little unit for 260 points. You could go based config+SL+Starcannon for some versatility, but you're still in pretty expensive range.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Why does everyone base an argument off it being T8?
Is that really such a big thing?
So no triple wraithlord armies have been beaten before?

A big difference here is you couldn't give WLs 5++ and you can't cast fortune on two WLs at once. Essentially, you can do that with the WK.

Its not toughness that makes a MC a scary prospect these days.

Its a mixture of its save (2+ is a nice start)
It needs a ++ save. (even a 5++ will do)

It can take a 5++, and T8 3+ is superior to T6 2+ against the vast majority of weapons. Sure, Dark Eldar are the one exception to this rule.

Needs to be fairly decent size so it can make use of cover.

Not with a 5++

Needs to be able to move quickly (wings or boosters, both work)

Its a jump MC.

Needs to either be a menace in CC or shooting.

Its a hybrid. Its more of a menace shooting then a Swarmlord, by infinity, and more of a CC threat then a Riptide. Use both abilities, or you will end up quite disappointed, as you illustrate.

Putting 1 or 2 in a list is a great idea. The reason? Because a few army builds will forget or choose not to take the anti wraith knight options and get destroyed by the thing in its base set up. However the rest of your list needs to focus on dealing with infantry and light armor like venoms. IMHO, shadow weavers and wraiths in wave serpents are all ready going to be work horses for the eldar, and the addition of the wraith knight compliments them for the most part. 6 shadow weavers is still a force to be reckoned with that the wraith knight doesn't greatly diminish your barrage ability.

Also, if you ground a flying daemon prince, the 2 s10 wraith shots will be golden, and in cover it will swing before said daemons, allowing you a chance to instant death them with your base s10.

The way to approach the wraith knight is not to center your army around it, but pay a mere 240 point tax to dominate a few matchups and reserve it versus the bad matchups to give your main army 2 turns to silence the most dangerous guns. I for one think the wraith knight is a good addition to an otherwise well rounded eldar force. The 12 inch move alone makes it have a permanent spot in any eldar list I make as fast close combat units are the only real cc options worth taking.

A big difference here is you couldn't give WLs 5++ and you can't cast fortune on two WLs at once. Essentially, you can do that with the WK.

You can also hide WL's in cover for such a save.

It can take a 5++, and T8 3+ is superior to T6 2+ against the vast majority of weapons. Sure, Dark Eldar are the one exception to this rule.

Vast majority of weapons?
Granted, standard weapons can hurt the riptide, but its got the range to keep out of the way.
Also, missiles and plas really dont care much about a 3+.

Its a hybrid. Its more of a menace shooting then a Swarmlord, by infinity, and more of a CC threat then a Riptide. Use both abilities, or you will end up quite disappointed, as you illustrate.

See, funny thing is, hybrid units really dont work all that well.
Armies will bring in certain units for the jobs that need doing, and each unit will do the job well.
The knight kinda just sits in the middle though.
It will be out shot in a firefight and beat to death in combat against any unit dedicated to it.

There really is no use for a unit thats a jack of all trades and a master of none.

You can also hide WL's in cover for such a save.

Well, they are still MCs and you need to get 25% coverage, but fair point.

Also, missiles and plas really dont care much about a 3+.

True, but they care about the T8 and a potentially re rollabe 5++.

See, funny thing is, hybrid units really dont work all that well.

Grey Hunters? Purrifiers? I don't know, I think versatility is a good thing.

will be out shot in a firefight and beat to death in combat against any unit dedicated to it.

There are a lot of dedicated close combat units that can't touch the WK. I mean, a lot. Orcs (except maybe a PK, which won't do much), Wyches, ASM, Grey Hunters, Even most of the Grey Knight units are praying on a single Hammer. Some MCs will give it fits (but it will trump many other MCs), and Hammernator units will give it fits. And anything with poison, unless of course you have fortune cast on it, in which case even poison isn't that big of a threat.

There really is no use for a unit thats a jack of all trades and a master of none.

Perhaps, although I tend to disagree.

True, but they care about the T8.

Whats worse though, someone having to rely on a 4-5+ to wound you and not giving a save, or them wounding on a 2-3+ and you allways having that save?

Grey Hunters? Purrifiers? I don't know, I think versatility is a good thing.

Hunters not soo much, they really arent all that amazing.
Purifiers, ill give you that one, they do both pretty well.
I think thats a combination of GK's though, most of the units have a power weapon and stormbolter as standard or better.

of dedicated close combat units that can't touch the WK. I mean, a lot. Orcs (except maybe a PK, which won't do much), Wyches, ASM, Grey Hunters, Even most of the Grey Knight units are praying on a single Hammer. Some MCs will give it fits (but it will trump many other MCs), and Hammernator units will give it fits. And anything with poison, unless of course you have fortune cast on it, in which case even poison isn't that big of a threat.

Orks, wyches, hunters etc really arent that good, i wouldnt class them as dedicated combat units.
For a combat unit, it needs to have a way to deal with each situation.
2/3 of those are S3, which IMO makes them useless to begin with.
Wyches have no ability to remove saves, but ill give them a saving grace for having haywires.

Hammernators really are what i had in mind since they are the 1st thing that springs to mind when i say about a dedicated CC unit.

Perhaps, although I tend to disagree.

Often ive seen people say how things like marines are amazing all rounders.
I then watch them get shot to bits or torn to shreds in combat.
If you need a unit to do a job, why rely on one that might get it done when you can take something that will get it done?
I just dont like having to rely on a bit of luck, i rather use a dedicated unit that i know will perform how i want it to.

The Sword is a terrible terrible option sadly, you pay 5pts to re-rolled 1 missed attack in assault and get a 5++, but give up BOTH S10 AP2 weapons. Sure you could then buy it heavy weapons again on top of that, but that loadout ends up costing 290pts and is significantly worse than the base 240pt loadout. Its perfectly viable in combat without the Sword and 5++, the only things that threaten it in assault aren't going to care about a 5++ anyway (TH/SS Terminators still crush it either way, and it won't save you against GK Terminators and anything with an ID ability).

I definitely think the base loadout is the best, its 2 S10 AP2 shots at BS4 that most of the time will be firing for an entire game. It has 12" movement so it can avoid combats with things that can hurt it (and don't kid yourselves, there are things that will bury this thing in combat, which is why the CC loadout is terrible) and you have to put an entire army worth of shooting into it for multiple turns to kill it. There are a few armies that might shoot it to death, but against Dark Eldar for example you can deploy in a back corner and avoid all his shooting, and then start punching Venoms out of the sky (its going to kill 1 per turn by itself).

In any case they certainly aren't overpowered, its basically just two Wraithlords strapped together. I can't see myself taking more than 1 though, since you don't see that much heavy armour and Prisms/Nightspinners (S8 against Necrons if you hadn't realised that yet) and the rest of the Heavy slots are all worth a look.

Powerguy wrote:
The Sword is a terrible terrible option sadly, you pay 5pts to re-rolled 1 missed attack in assault and get a 5++, but give up BOTH S10 AP2 weapons. Sure you could then buy it heavy weapons again on top of that, but that loadout ends up costing 290pts and is significantly worse than the base 240pt loadout. Its perfectly viable in combat without the Sword and 5++, the only things that threaten it in assault aren't going to care about a 5++ anyway (TH/SS Terminators still crush it either way, and it won't save you against GK Terminators and anything with an ID ability).

I definitely think the base loadout is the best, its 2 S10 AP2 shots at BS4 that most of the time will be firing for an entire game. It has 12" movement so it can avoid combats with things that can hurt it (and don't kid yourselves, there are things that will bury this thing in combat, which is why the CC loadout is terrible) and you have to put an entire army worth of shooting into it for multiple turns to kill it. There are a few armies that might shoot it to death, but against Dark Eldar for example you can deploy in a back corner and avoid all his shooting, and then start punching Venoms out of the sky (its going to kill 1 per turn by itself).

In any case they certainly aren't overpowered, its basically just two Wraithlords strapped together. I can't see myself taking more than 1 though, since you don't see that much heavy armour and Prisms/Nightspinners (S8 against Necrons if you hadn't realised that yet) and the rest of the Heavy slots are all worth a look.

Honestly, I think it's biggest short coming, is it's cost for firepower, is just out-shined by the rest of the heavy support section. Nightspinners, and Fire Prisms are both insanely good.

Well it has similar firepower to 2 Prisms, but better durability (T8 and AV12 are pretty similar against most anti tank weapons, but the Lord has a 3+ save against some of it). Its surprisingly balanced basically. The assault ability could come in handy as well, I expect Jetbikes/Spiders to be the core of most armies and having a big S10 counterpunch unit (that can keep pace with them) is certainly worth considering.

For a combat unit, it needs to have a way to deal with each situation.

No combat unit can deal with each situation though. There is a definite paper>rock>scissors aspect to CC in this game. Generally speaking, Hammers kill MCs, MCs kill hordes/basic troops, hordes/basic troops kill hammers.

TH/SS Terms, which, like you said, is everyone's go to, die pretty horribly to horde based CC units.

the only things that threaten it in assault aren't going to care about a 5++ anyway (TH/SS Terminators still crush it either way, and it won't save you against GK Terminators and anything with an ID ability).

I think you are forgetting about Fortune, which is quite relevant. Also, the 5++ helps against shooting too.

Plus, I think you are overestimating the TH/SS Terms here a bit. Throw a fortuned WK against 6 TH/SS Terms (roughly equal point cost). The WK kills ~1 Term/turn, and the GK do ~ 1 wound/turn at full strength, but that will steadily diminish over the course of the fight. It's a much closer fight then you think, and I certainly would not describe the results as TH/SS "crushing" the WK. Outside of super CC MCs, and mass poison, this is probably the WKs weakest match up too.

Powerguy wrote:
Well it has similar firepower to 2 Prisms, but better durability (T8 and AV12 are pretty similar against most anti tank weapons, but the Lord has a 3+ save against some of it). Its surprisingly balanced basically. The assault ability could come in handy as well, I expect Jetbikes/Spiders to be the core of most armies and having a big S10 counterpunch unit (that can keep pace with them) is certainly worth considering.

Well, AV12 with a 4+ cover save is pretty good, but I agree the Wraith Knight is more durable. The Prisms have the three firing options however, which I rank superior to two strength 10 shots. You can also fire two prisms, and two separate targets.