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You forget, you can cast the eldar psychic power to make it a 2+ save, and I think there is another that gives it a cover save.

So an eldar player has several options that can mitigate most of the complaints in this thread. Also, while your riptides are shooting the WK, that Waveserpent with the WG can drop them off within range for the kill with impunity.

Durandal wrote:
You forget, you can cast the eldar psychic power to make it a 2+ save, and I think there is another that gives it a cover save.

So an eldar player has several options that can mitigate most of the complaints in this thread. Also, while your riptides are shooting the WK, that Waveserpent with the WG can drop them off within range for the kill with impunity.

Those spells have to be targeted on the psyker and their unit.

 tankboy145 wrote:

 Shandara wrote:

 tankboy145 wrote:
Seems like a scary model but if it has low initiative, Space wolf players are going to use jaws on these things all day.

Luckily it's Eldar so it's fast. And a Monstrous Creature to boot.

Doesnt matter how fast it is, a drop pod right in front of you means I hit you, the line is also 24 inches, Im not sure it can get that far unless its a flier. Also if its going to be monstrous it will be -1 initiative. Now if they use some psykers that deny me or make me roll 3d6 test there might be some problems but if it really has a low leadership SW players wont care how big or scary he is.

I thought MC got a -1 to the roll for Jaws, not their initiatitve? Since it's an inititative test that makes them harder to kill. So basically the WK would only fail on a 6.

A 10 strong unit of deathmarks in rapid fire will down it in a turn, mabey even at longrange if lucky.

Sasori wrote:

Powerguy wrote:
Well it has similar firepower to 2 Prisms, but better durability (T8 and AV12 are pretty similar against most anti tank weapons, but the Lord has a 3+ save against some of it). Its surprisingly balanced basically. The assault ability could come in handy as well, I expect Jetbikes/Spiders to be the core of most armies and having a big S10 counterpunch unit (that can keep pace with them) is certainly worth considering.

Well, AV12 with a 4+ cover save is pretty good, but I agree the Wraith Knight is more durable. The Prisms have the three firing options however, which I rank superior to two strength 10 shots. You can also fire two prisms, and two separate targets.

Yeah those Prisms are very tasty, S9 Lance is very nice because it is AP1 as well, so I finally have a way to punch through those annoying Necron Barges. I've brought one WK because they look amazing, but I suspect I will end up going back to Prisms as well. The main issue is number of slots, since I want to try and fit in 1-2 Nightspinners as well, since a S8 pie plate on side armour which can also rend against vehicles is pretty nice. Interestingly it also very effective against two of the most popular units around, Wraiths (it jumps to S8 so you ID them, which forces them to spread out, which makes them easier to pick off with other shooting) and Guard Blobs with Marine characters (against jumps to S8 due to majority I of 3, and you can drop it on the Marine/s to kill them off).

ShadarLogoth wrote:

For a combat unit, it needs to have a way to deal with each situation.

No combat unit can deal with each situation though. There is a definite paper>rock>scissors aspect to CC in this game. Generally speaking, Hammers kill MCs, MCs kill hordes/basic troops, hordes/basic troops kill hammers.

TH/SS Terms, which, like you said, is everyone's go to, die pretty horribly to horde based CC units.

the only things that threaten it in assault aren't going to care about a 5++ anyway (TH/SS Terminators still crush it either way, and it won't save you against GK Terminators and anything with an ID ability).

I think you are forgetting about Fortune, which is quite relevant. Also, the 5++ helps against shooting too.

Plus, I think you are overestimating the TH/SS Terms here a bit. Throw a fortuned WK against 6 TH/SS Terms (roughly equal point cost). The WK kills ~1 Term/turn, and the GK do ~ 1 wound/turn at full strength, but that will steadily diminish over the course of the fight. It's a much closer fight then you think, and I certainly would not describe the results as TH/SS "crushing" the WK. Outside of super CC MCs, and mass poison, this is probably the WKs weakest match up too.

GK Terminators and any of the Daemon characters with the ID sword are far worst matchup, because they both just have to get a single wound through. The WK can fight TH/SS Terminators even without the Shield really, trim them down and rely on T8 to live for a turn or two while you finish the last few off. On the flip side he is never going to be able to fight stuff with ID even with the Shield, which is why its a terrible upgrade. On that note its worth pointing out that Eldrad is an incredible MC hunter now, 2/3 attacks with 2's to wound and you ID a Tervigon etc. Also WK vs WK shooting matches will be hilarious.

I don't expect much GK terminators or heck GK much anything to survive the amount of elder and tau shooting now a days.

Marines are going to be so easily torrented off the board with all the high str, ignore cover, and lots of AP2 weapons these armies are sporting now a days.

 sudojoe wrote:
I don't expect much GK terminators or heck GK much anything to survive the amount of elder and tau shooting now a days.

Marines are going to be so easily torrented off the board with all the high str, ignore cover, and lots of AP2 weapons these armies are sporting now a days.

Yup.

Marines were rumored next, right? We'll see how goes for them in the new codex, and we can get some ideas how the other chapters will be.

Drop two of them behind enemy lines via Deep Strike (as it's Jump MC) and cause some havoc , this may even force the oponent to Deep Strike his drop pods on his deploy zone, allowing you to deal better with CC Deathstars with the rest of your army

Wyrdeone wrote:
Winged Daemon Prince with Balesword.

Catch it easy, swing first, wound on 4+, Ap2, instant death.

Between Wraithknights, Dreadknights, and Riptides, my Nurgle Daemon prince model is getting dusted off and returned to the table.

Just FYI, this won't work on the Dreadknight. Your sword is a Demonic Gift, and the Dreadknight has the Dark Excommunication Psychic Power, which "in the assault phase, before any blows are struck" allows you make any demonic gift "cease to work".

He's LD 10, so there's a very high chance you'd be punching the DK with your fists while he responds with his S10 AP2 Instant Death weapon, lol.

Unless it was FAQd after the recent codex change, it does't work. It's a 'Greater Reward, and the reward itself doesn't do anything in-game, it just allows you to purchase a piece of wargear (not a daemonic gift).

Scratch that - Dark Excommunication does work - the wargear is listed in the army entry under a category 'Daemonic Gifts'

Sloppy codex writing...

Lanlaorn wrote:

Wyrdeone wrote:
Winged Daemon Prince with Balesword.

Catch it easy, swing first, wound on 4+, Ap2, instant death.

Between Wraithknights, Dreadknights, and Riptides, my Nurgle Daemon prince model is getting dusted off and returned to the table.

Just FYI, this won't work on the Dreadknight. Your sword is a Demonic Gift, and the Dreadknight has the Dark Excommunication Psychic Power, which "in the assault phase, before any blows are struck" allows you make any demonic gift "cease to work".

He's LD 10, so there's a very high chance you'd be punching the DK with your fists while he responds with his S10 AP2 Instant Death weapon, lol.

Can't use Dark Excommunication AND the force weapon because DK can only use one power per turn.

 agnosto wrote:

Lanlaorn wrote:

Wyrdeone wrote:
Winged Daemon Prince with Balesword.

Catch it easy, swing first, wound on 4+, Ap2, instant death.

Between Wraithknights, Dreadknights, and Riptides, my Nurgle Daemon prince model is getting dusted off and returned to the table.

Just FYI, this won't work on the Dreadknight. Your sword is a Demonic Gift, and the Dreadknight has the Dark Excommunication Psychic Power, which "in the assault phase, before any blows are struck" allows you make any demonic gift "cease to work".

He's LD 10, so there's a very high chance you'd be punching the DK with your fists while he responds with his S10 AP2 Instant Death weapon, lol.

Can't use Dark Excommunication AND the force weapon because DK can only use one power per turn.

Yea but S10 still IDs the T5 Prince. You'll still own the WK or Riptide though.

I think the new wriathknight is amazing!

Today in my local GW, I used the legs (since it was all that i built) to represent the model. It still towered over thr swarmlord, whom i saw for the first time and was very disappointed with its size!

Anyway - wraithknight (cc) vs swarmlord on the charge brought down the swarmlord to 3 wounds

And also the shooty wraithknight variant took out an entire squad of deathwing terminators from dark vengeance in its round of shooting.

I am more of a hobbyist than a painter and maybe why i am getting so excited!

tau will be able to take your WK down without a problem. so many guns they bring are high str, can ignore cover, and have a TON of shots. but honestly...

if your fire out put is what your saying 3x str 6 small blasts, i just ignore the thing and use the above to blast the rest of your army. then, when he is by himself, pelt him with missile pods, fusion guns, etc. if he tries to get up close and combat, well his cover is easilly ignored by markerlights, and once again, a bunch of fusion will make him a smoking crater in about 1 turn.

dark eldar just load up the poison weapons... in about a quarter of my army my DE can put out close to 100 splinter shots. hit on 3+ wound on 4+. you have 6 wounds? great.,... make 37 saves. buh bye.

necrons can do the same with a bunch of easy to obtain tesla destructers on fliers. yea i wound on 5+ but the amount of shots its taking is going to make up for it. deathmarks with some crypteks... heck, even a basic overlord (mss,ws,weave) can take one down. even if you DONT beat yourself into paste first.

IG can have so many high str long range weapons... its not even a factor. ive seen a 1500pt gaurd list with 12 lazcannons and 10 auto cannons. plus melta vets and some other toys. with orders... that WK is going to have a bad day.

chaos... well, from what i have seen they can put down a pretty good amount of high str low AP shots as well. certainly enough to remove a squad of space marines, so i dont see your WK standing up to that... because really he is just a super tough SM.

3+ is not hard to bypass. force enough saves and it goes down hard. toughness 8, while a litle better is still hurt by anything str 7 and up. throw enough of those shots at it, and it drops like a 140$ sack of rocks. i would not deem it as a competetive unit for tourneys - based on the little information i have about it. obviously seeing it in action and watching it bypass those above mentioned tidbits will change my mind... but im not thinking it will. it lacks any kind of speed or mobility, like a riptide or a DK. (with teleporter) it has no invun save, and relies on cover, wich can be countered easy. its armor save is moderate, and alot of things get past it. heck even basic power weapons. the riptide/DK at least have a 2+ first.... and finally its weapon options are no better then a pair of smaller units. 2 wraithlords can take simaler guns, but target seperate units, and probally do better in CC, and cost about the same. plus they are easier to hide.

if your going wraithknight - i think you need 2 or more. 1 will take fire and get shot to pieces. 2, however might last a bit longer and live to inflict some pain.

Tau throw out a lot of S7 AP4, S6 AP2, and S10 AP1 at range. Not a lot else. Of those, only the S10 AP1 is effective at wounding the wraithknight. Fusion guns are relitively short range and on models that the WK IDs both in shooting and melee. If you dont kill the wraithknight the turn they fire, the crisis suits are probably gone or nearly gone. S5 AP5 shooting is ineffective as you will be saving marker lights for bigger guns. you need 36 pulse rifle shots to put a single wound on the WK. A whole 2k tau army would struggle to put down 1 WK per turn with all its shooting.

If a whole DE army is throwing everything at killing 1 wraithknight, i say good. 100 poison shots is about a 2k army, and if a 2k army is only killing 240 points of mine in a turn of shooting, thats fine with me. "throw poison at it" is nice in theory, but even with said 100 shots you still have a pretty decent chance of the WK surviving 37 saves.

If you throw everything at the WK, its a great distraction unit. Its much cheaper than him shooting down 2-3 vehicles and some of your infantry. If he ignores the WK, well you can advance and make him deal with it while putting out some pretty decent fire. Once it gets in punching range it becomes a pretty high target priority. Therefore he has to deal with it or start losing squads. Thats why i like the stock 240 configuration and still call it effective.

I know it was a few pages back but Tau can take kroot snipers at 7pts each....sniper drones, ion heads.

Personally, if I consistently see these, I'll run a Tau/Grey Knight list. Vindicare to shield-breaker the invul-save item then double wound him til he drops the vindicare, outflanking kroot sniper team comes on to play later. or just run them gunline for larfs. If he assaults anything, I'll jump the dreadknight in to finish him off. If he's a daemon (haven't seen the rules but there was talk of the sword being a daemonic gift earlier) GKs will laugh until they fall over and treat him like a weak GUO.

You just ignore the WK. Its 240 stock and against most armies it's just pinging a couple troops a turn if that. If it gets into CC a couple turns down the line who cares, 4 ws4 attacks is trash. It will take it 6 turns to kill 10 MEQ in HtH. 10 MEQ<240

Honestly I am more afraid of the Support weapons and the heavy tanks. Heck even Vypers are nasty again. There are way more threatening things then a WK.

It's funny that people keep mentioning pouring more points into it to get a 5++ as then it's even more likely to be ignored as it has no useful ranged attack without inflating it EVEN MORE! Ha ha, and fortune is pouring even more points and syncing more units together for minimal return.

I think its a sweet model, and could understand running one stock but it sure as heck isn't going to be the work horse of that book. Heck, I find it funny that all the new books hard counter themselves so well, shuriken weapons and doom will destroy that guy fast. I would bring max GJB before I took a WK.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 zephoid wrote:


If a whole DE army is throwing everything at killing 1 wraithknight, i say good. 100 poison shots is about a 2k army, and if a 2k army is only killing 240 points of mine in a turn of shooting, thats fine with me. "throw poison at it" is nice in theory, but even with said 100 shots you still have a pretty decent chance of the WK surviving 37 saves.

Hilariously enough, the WK isn't a character like his smaller cousin, meaning one hidden flesh gauntlet is all it takes to drop that sucker in a gory explosion

I like it stock or with sword/board and Starcannons.

I'll still prefer WLs now that they can have a sword plus two weapons and no TL idiocy. Plus one more attack and no Wraithsight.

 DarthSpader wrote:
tau will be able to take your WK down without a problem. so many guns they bring are high str, can ignore cover, and have a TON of shots. but honestly...

if your fire out put is what your saying 3x str 6 small blasts, i just ignore the thing and use the above to blast the rest of your army. then, when he is by himself, pelt him with missile pods, fusion guns, etc. if he tries to get up close and combat, well his cover is easilly ignored by markerlights, and once again, a bunch of fusion will make him a smoking crater in about 1 turn.

dark eldar just load up the poison weapons... in about a quarter of my army my DE can put out close to 100 splinter shots. hit on 3+ wound on 4+. you have 6 wounds? great.,... make 37 saves. buh bye.

necrons can do the same with a bunch of easy to obtain tesla destructers on fliers. yea i wound on 5+ but the amount of shots its taking is going to make up for it. deathmarks with some crypteks... heck, even a basic overlord (mss,ws,weave) can take one down. even if you DONT beat yourself into paste first.

IG can have so many high str long range weapons... its not even a factor. ive seen a 1500pt gaurd list with 12 lazcannons and 10 auto cannons. plus melta vets and some other toys. with orders... that WK is going to have a bad day.

chaos... well, from what i have seen they can put down a pretty good amount of high str low AP shots as well. certainly enough to remove a squad of space marines, so i dont see your WK standing up to that... because really he is just a super tough SM.

3+ is not hard to bypass. force enough saves and it goes down hard. toughness 8, while a litle better is still hurt by anything str 7 and up. throw enough of those shots at it, and it drops like a 140$ sack of rocks. i would not deem it as a competetive unit for tourneys - based on the little information i have about it. obviously seeing it in action and watching it bypass those above mentioned tidbits will change my mind... but im not thinking it will. it lacks any kind of speed or mobility, like a riptide or a DK. (with teleporter) it has no invun save, and relies on cover, wich can be countered easy. its armor save is moderate, and alot of things get past it. heck even basic power weapons. the riptide/DK at least have a 2+ first.... and finally its weapon options are no better then a pair of smaller units. 2 wraithlords can take simaler guns, but target seperate units, and probally do better in CC, and cost about the same. plus they are easier to hide.

if your going wraithknight - i think you need 2 or more. 1 will take fire and get shot to pieces. 2, however might last a bit longer and live to inflict some pain.

You severely underestimate this thing. The Wraithknight is as durable without cover/invuln as a Riptide. Necrons need 11 Tesla Destructors on average to kill it, far more than almost any list has. That IG firepower doesn't kill it in one turn either. S7 is really quite poor against the Wraithknight and non-AP3 S7 is practically useless (you're looking at 16/17 shots per wound assuming BS4). Really, the only times the Wraithknight isn't as durable as the Riptide is against S8 AP2/3 and poison. The Wraithlords may be easier to hide but they're also not jump, so considerably slower to reach combat. I dunno, there's just a ton of negativity around this guy when it's not even bad. S10 AP2 guns with the chance to ID is god and it's no slouch in assault either. I'm not sure in a pure Eldar army you'll see them over support weapons (9 S10 AP2 barrage small blasts for 450 points looks amazing to me) but as allies to Tau, it's something I'd like to see. I mean, if someone puts 2 Riptides and a Wraiithknight on the table, do you focus on the things with a higher damage output whilst the Wraithknight pretty much eats a unit per turn, or do you kill the Wraithknight and weather the storm of fire? Nothing else really fills that slot of very durable, fast and dangerous.

I'm not 100% sold on it, but it's certainly better than a lot of people are making out. I agree that you either need 2 or some other huge threat though but then that's the same as any monstrous creature.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
I like it stock or with sword/board and Starcannons.

I'll still prefer WLs now that they can have a sword plus two weapons and no TL idiocy. Plus one more attack and no Wraithsight.

Pretty much this. MSU is effective for a reason, even on larger scales, two halves of a wraith knight (2 WL) are better then one. Factor in his insane cost and generally hes only worth it is 2000 pt games where you now have 6 HS slots anyway. He seems like a fun unit that will rock the unprepared but I don't think he is a very competitive option. He will struggle to gain more then LB which hawks get much easier for cheaper and he will preserve a VP in BGNT but that's about it apart from being sexy looking


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eyjio wrote:

 DarthSpader wrote:
tau will be able to take your WK down without a problem. so many guns they bring are high str, can ignore cover, and have a TON of shots. but honestly...

if your fire out put is what your saying 3x str 6 small blasts, i just ignore the thing and use the above to blast the rest of your army. then, when he is by himself, pelt him with missile pods, fusion guns, etc. if he tries to get up close and combat, well his cover is easilly ignored by markerlights, and once again, a bunch of fusion will make him a smoking crater in about 1 turn.

dark eldar just load up the poison weapons... in about a quarter of my army my DE can put out close to 100 splinter shots. hit on 3+ wound on 4+. you have 6 wounds? great.,... make 37 saves. buh bye.

necrons can do the same with a bunch of easy to obtain tesla destructers on fliers. yea i wound on 5+ but the amount of shots its taking is going to make up for it. deathmarks with some crypteks... heck, even a basic overlord (mss,ws,weave) can take one down. even if you DONT beat yourself into paste first.

IG can have so many high str long range weapons... its not even a factor. ive seen a 1500pt gaurd list with 12 lazcannons and 10 auto cannons. plus melta vets and some other toys. with orders... that WK is going to have a bad day.

chaos... well, from what i have seen they can put down a pretty good amount of high str low AP shots as well. certainly enough to remove a squad of space marines, so i dont see your WK standing up to that... because really he is just a super tough SM.

3+ is not hard to bypass. force enough saves and it goes down hard. toughness 8, while a litle better is still hurt by anything str 7 and up. throw enough of those shots at it, and it drops like a 140$ sack of rocks. i would not deem it as a competetive unit for tourneys - based on the little information i have about it. obviously seeing it in action and watching it bypass those above mentioned tidbits will change my mind... but im not thinking it will. it lacks any kind of speed or mobility, like a riptide or a DK. (with teleporter) it has no invun save, and relies on cover, wich can be countered easy. its armor save is moderate, and alot of things get past it. heck even basic power weapons. the riptide/DK at least have a 2+ first.... and finally its weapon options are no better then a pair of smaller units. 2 wraithlords can take simaler guns, but target seperate units, and probally do better in CC, and cost about the same. plus they are easier to hide.

if your going wraithknight - i think you need 2 or more. 1 will take fire and get shot to pieces. 2, however might last a bit longer and live to inflict some pain.

You severely underestimate this thing. The Wraithknight is as durable without cover/invuln as a Riptide. Necrons need 11 Tesla Destructors on average to kill it, far more than almost any list has. That IG firepower doesn't kill it in one turn either. S7 is really quite poor against the Wraithknight and non-AP3 S7 is practically useless (you're looking at 16/17 shots per wound assuming BS4). Really, the only times the Wraithknight isn't as durable as the Riptide is against S8 AP2/3 and poison. The Wraithlords may be easier to hide but they're also not jump, so considerably slower to reach combat. I dunno, there's just a ton of negativity around this guy when it's not even bad. S10 AP2 guns with the chance to ID is god and it's no slouch in assault either. I'm not sure in a pure Eldar army you'll see them over support weapons (9 S10 AP2 barrage small blasts for 450 points looks amazing to me) but as allies to Tau, it's something I'd like to see. I mean, if someone puts 2 Riptides and a Wraiithknight on the table, do you focus on the things with a higher damage output whilst the Wraithknight pretty much eats a unit per turn, or do you kill the Wraithknight and weather the storm of fire? Nothing else really fills that slot of very durable, fast and dangerous.

I'm not 100% sold on it, but it's certainly better than a lot of people are making out. I agree that you either need 2 or some other huge threat though but then that's the same as any monstrous creature.

OK fine, so now explain to us why we shouldn't ignore it? It's damage output is miserable for it's cost. Your comment about it eating a unit a turn is hilarious. It's also false.

with my 2k venom list, i have 108 shots JUST from the venoms. thats not counting anything i have from the troops inside, or my fliers. (troops inside provide another 24-48 shots) then i have blasters and other stuff.

now, correct me if im wrong but 108 shots (wich costs me 540pts to get btw) will hit on 3+. and im at 36" range. 1/3 miss, so 72 hits. of those hits, lets say half wound. thats 36 wounds on the WK. youll save 2/3 of those with 3+ armor = 24 saves but 12 get past. thats DOUBLE your available wounds. good bye.

and if the splinter cannons fail, i have lances, blasters, and the troops on board to finish you off. and the best your WK can do in return is kill a single 173pt unit IF he pops one of the trueborn venoms and all the guys inside.

and your argument that i just spent my entire army shooting at you... not true. all the units inside those transports can fire at other targets. and we havent even discussed my fliers or fast attack units (wich varies between bikes, hellions and beasts) - now granted this is more of a 5th ed list then 6th, (my 6th DE is still being tweaked, but puts out simaler if not more splinter shots) - so just saying.

 DarthSpader wrote:
with my 2k venom list, i have 108 shots JUST from the venoms. thats not counting anything i have from the troops inside, or my fliers. (troops inside provide another 24-48 shots) then i have blasters and other stuff.

now, correct me if im wrong but 108 shots (wich costs me 540pts to get btw) will hit on 3+. and im at 36" range. 1/3 miss, so 72 hits. of those hits, lets say half wound. thats 36 wounds on the WK. youll save 2/3 of those with 3+ armor = 24 saves but 12 get past. thats DOUBLE your available wounds. good bye.

and if the splinter cannons fail, i have lances, blasters, and the troops on board to finish you off. and the best your WK can do in return is kill a single 173pt unit IF he pops one of the trueborn venoms and all the guys inside.

and your argument that i just spent my entire army shooting at you... not true. all the units inside those transports can fire at other targets. and we havent even discussed my fliers or fast attack units (wich varies between bikes, hellions and beasts) - now granted this is more of a 5th ed list then 6th, (my 6th DE is still being tweaked, but puts out simaler if not more splinter shots) - so just saying.

Seriously though, I have flesh gauntlets in my list for units like this. An aberration will pour out 6-7 attacks that wound on a 4+ and cause intant death if he fails one save.

Oh and as for necrons, I don't think they will fire telsa considering MSS from a destroyer lord and some wraiths seriously tune that guy up in a couple CC phases. Irritating example I know, but that unit is still the premier counter assault shock and awe unit for a reason.

yes. but that was a single example. i also tend towards more shooting lists in 6th, necrons included.

the end argument i am making is toughness 8 is nice... but only a 3+ save and no easy invun, make it have to rely on cover, (wich is probally worse then its armor save) so anything that can spam out a huge number of shots that can wound it on a 4+ or even 5+ will give it a really bad time. and with the 6th meta focusing more and more on heavy shooting, thats not hard to acomplish. and while some would argue that i just used 27% of my army to take down a 300pt max unit, i would say yup. and now i have 9 units that can do other things, while you have a dead centerpiece. so far the only big MC i have seen work, is the DK in 6th (he failed horribly in 5th) a PAIR of trygons, and a pair of riptides. the big scary MC just tend to attract alot of fire, and most can't really stand up to it. going in pairs mitigates this somewhat, and a trio would fare VERY well i imagine. but as a direct comparison to the riptide (its closest competetor) the riptide wins. its more mobile, has better guns, better saves, is faster, can JSJ, and has ablative wounds in its drones. i also believe its cheaper. not sure on the weapon ranges, but the riptide can fire at 72" ...if the WK brings lances and such hes working at 36". and honestly when you get to be that big, the toughness dosent matter as much as what kind of saves, and your ability to get out of LOS or range of retaliation.

edit:

just thought i would add some thoughts.

for a big MC to be effective i believe you need most, if not all of the following:
1. longer range then your enemys. you have to be able to hit without getting hit back. acomplish this with ultra long range weapons, or the ability to move, fire move. (ie riptide)
2. speed. the ability to close distance quick, get in on your target, kill it, and move on, limits the other sides ability to respond. works well with close range units like the DK, trygon, FHT, etc.
3. you need super high toughness, lots of wounds and a good invun save, or all 3. while high toughness helps matters and stops the average bolter from dropping you, in the end its your wounds and saves that matter. if you get pegged by a lazcannon and have to rely on a 5+...well. thats just not a good situation. if you a method of recovering wounds, or getting a better save, then awsome - but those extra points for those support units essentially become part of your big MC cost. and what happens when that support gets taken out? furthermore, a high toughness low wound count, means a few lucky shots wipe you. high toughness and high wounds but no save, just means people spam antitank weapons - and again down you go. snipers and poison excell here as well, and more and more armies are taking these.
4. they need to have a really well defined role. - and be able to do it as well or better then other competing units in their slot. the reason a DK works well in a gk list, is the other heavy units just dont compete with it anymore. tanks have become second string, and a fast moving MC with a 2+ save and a beastly combat weapon can acomplish lots. the riptide can outrange and cover the entire table with its gun, shoot, then jump in behind a building to block LOS. failing that, it has a 3+invun. and 2 ablative wounds to soak return fire.

out of those above 4 points, the WK really only brings the high toughness and wounds factor. its save is mediocre, and with no invun, its risking serious return fire. at its size, its gonna have a hard time claiming cover, AFAIK it cant JSJ, its not JI, and its weapon ranges are in the 36" bracket., (correct me if im wrong on these - what save does its shield thing give it?)

So... Taking out 240 pts. With 540 pts. Somehow makes it worthless?

Your flesh gauntlets will never get close. This is the same argument people gave with the riptide. Jump MC means i chose if it sees melee, not you. Also, how hard is it to kill that unit when im playing an army that specializes in S6 firing.

Then you talk about MSS from a lord who is never going to see melee either. Seriously, do people not play the game? do you just talk about what you can do? How the hell do you think that lord will see melee? Wait till the unit is whittled down and use precision shots/focused fire to pick out the lord. Once hes dead the unit gets wiped by the wraithknight. Repeat.

Kroot snipers are short range. If you advance out of cover, the army obliterates them. If you dont, you will never get shots on it.

Eldar will still be taking eldrad/high ML farseers. Eldrad/farseers still has a very good chance of getting fortune. These guys are REALLY good fortune targets when facing DE. 36 saves = 12 failed= 4 failed with rerolls. This also assumes your whole army is in range (wont be the case if im facing DE, especially if im rocking eldrad), you got first turn and your venoms are all alive, and such. The guys inside will probably not be in range first turn except maybe 1 or 2 venoms if you placed really well. Once you start switching the argument to you using your lances or FA slots(seriously, you will use a razorwing on the WK for the one turn it lives vs all the AA in eldar?) to take on the WK you are proving my exact point. In a 2k list you are focusing a LOT of firepower to take down a unit that is worth nowhere near what all that firepower should be taking out.

if it never shoots? or never kills anything? you bet. thats how my DE roll. they focus down your big threats through volume of fire, and move on, using target saturation to mitigate some damage. if my transports can take down that big beasty, and my other units can inflict damage or kill a few of your other units as well, thats a win. because ive removed whole units from your side, wich lessens your ability to hit me back. if i used my WHOLE army to shoot it, and nothing else, then yes. win for the thing i just shot at. but i will generally not put myself in that spot. most of my movment allows me to target the primary threat, but also shoot at secondary targets should the primary one die before the next unit can fire at it.

So you volly into the wraithknight, take it down turn 1, maybe put a few hull points on vehicles. Then my 1760 points of eldar vollys back, killing 3+ venoms, and your ravagers. Hell, i might even be rocking more than 1 of these guy where you can say hi to his friend. If your turn 2 consists of doing the same as turn 1 to the other WK, i will still be out-damaging your shooty army with mine.

I think i might have caused a war here - don't listen to me I am a noob at gaming since I am more of a painter. I just thought it looked and played awesome for what it was. At the end of the day you should be proud of your army and have fun not be a power gamer try to constantly table ur opponent by turn 2!

Just my 2 suncannons!

 Vivster wrote:

Today in my local GW, I used the legs (since it was all that i built) to represent the model.

...

I hope you at least have decency to be ashamed.

Well i pretty much spent at least 3+ hours cleaning and filing the legs and hip o make sure they were perfect so not realy