Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 noghri wrote:
So, what do you think about Deep Striking the WraithKnight? If you manage to do it in a good position, you're forcing your opponent to take it out, instead of ignoring it... and I think It has enough resilence to hold for at least a turn (depending on opponent and luck )

Generally deep striking huge models is a great way to roll on the mishap table to see how hard you cry.

Personally I don't find it worth while but it may play all sorts of mind games with the enemy knowing that a giant wraith knight can come on anywhere.

However, it is a ton of points and generally you'd want people to shoot at it. It's not that hard to tarpit and frankly vs a bunch of missle launchers / melta / sniper shots, this thing can still be taken down.

So I'd say no to deep striking unless you are going for something where you can #1 control the reserve rolls, #2 kind of predict the way the enemy will respond to you. and #3 plan according to what you'd imagine someone would do to #2.

It's actually pretty fast as is. I've had no problems with jump MC's as a GK player to know how to get it into CC by turn 2 most times. 12' + run 4' + 12' + 7-8 in charge is hard to dodge on a standard board.

There is literally no reason to ever Deep Strike him in a normal game of 40k, even against armies which have a chance of shooting one to death you can easily find a building to hide behind as far back as you can to avoid dying straight away. With 36" range + 12" move you are very rarely going to be out of range, so you are always better off deploying so you can fire for an extra turn or two. Even if you were using the CC loadout (which is a terrible idea in the first place) you wouldn't want to Deep Strike, you can't assault unit the turn after you arrive, which at best is going to be turn 3. 2 x 12" moves straight forward puts you on the edge of your opponents deployment zone, so they would have to be hugging their back edge to avoid it.

Powerguy, if your up against an all DE venom list and the rest of your army is in wave serpents, then your going to want to reserve your wraith knight until you down some transports. Also, if you have big guns never tire, you can use the wraith knight as a reserve objective grabber, meaning you may want him in reserve to deep strike to throw your opponents game off.

I agree that usually you want to start him on the table, but catch alls like "no reason to deep strike him" can be very misleading. Deep striking the wraith knight can be game winning, its just not the answer most of the time.

DevianID wrote:
Powerguy, if your up against an all DE venom list and the rest of your army is in wave serpents, then your going to want to reserve your wraith knight until you down some transports. Also, if you have big guns never tire, you can use the wraith knight as a reserve objective grabber, meaning you may want him in reserve to deep strike to throw your opponents game off.

I agree that usually you want to start him on the table, but catch alls like "no reason to deep strike him" can be very misleading. Deep striking the wraith knight can be game winning, its just not the answer most of the time.

If that was the case though, wouldn't you be better off just walking it on from reserves? I'm always very hesitant to deepstrike something, that large.

It's a mediocre unit that is going change the meta. There are lots of ways to deal with one.

Eldar=Any d weapon
DE=Poison
GK=Activate s8/s10 force weapon on a hammer/doom fist.
Nids=poison
Orks=tarpit it in boys
CSM=tarpit it in plague zombies

That being said other armies are in dire trouble.

Tau and IG has the dakka to drop one, and it's not worth it. By the time they are done the softer targets that should have been target priority have done their damage.

DA salvo lists=full panic. It's immune to all that s4 and is gunning straight for the salvo banner.

I wouldn't play with a knight myself, but I would never assume that they would be absent from a tournament.

I would only take one in a large game (2k +), with a single force org.

In any other case I'd rather have 2 wraithlords for comparable points. 2 WLs can fire 4 weapons and their wounds are spread out.

The heavy slot is very strong with the new codex.

I'm wondering if the Iyanden supplement will move either the WK or WL to Elites. Then it might see more play. They are still very expensive but have four to six T8 monsters running around that are pretty decent in CC also is scary. Throw in an Avatar and you've got a real monster mash.

After reading this thread and looking at the model in question, all I want to do now is paint a few up in white, blue, and red with red chin and a golden 'V' tiara on its forehead. Mobile Suit 40k: Eldar's Counter Attack!

SJ

How would you guys model him? Ie. with what weapon loadout?

id love to see the stats but from what ive heard i doubt i'll see it unless someone just wants it on the table.

~70-100 more than the Riptide and on average isnt doing as much, and to me the riptide is a distraction not a legit threat. It pops light vehicles and termies, but aside from that i'd rather use crisis suits. However, it is indeed one hell of a distraction...people seem hellbent on killing it and usually dont succeed.

T8 pretty much just rules out the random infantry gak firing at it. Every army still has plenty of things to kill it. Orks are probably the lowest chances, but even they will cause some damage since it will almost never hide from the loota fire. And Ghaz will still eat its face, which is my normal tactic for dealing with Dreadknights.

DevianID wrote:
Powerguy, if your up against an all DE venom list and the rest of your army is in wave serpents, then your going to want to reserve your wraith knight until you down some transports. Also, if you have big guns never tire, you can use the wraith knight as a reserve objective grabber, meaning you may want him in reserve to deep strike to throw your opponents game off.

I agree that usually you want to start him on the table, but catch alls like "no reason to deep strike him" can be very misleading. Deep striking the wraith knight can be game winning, its just not the answer most of the time.

If I'm going first against DE then he is getting deployed so I can squash a Venom a turn for the entire game, with the rest of the army reliably dropping another couple he isn't going to have the firepower to deal with the WK. If I'm going second then I know where my opponent has deployed, and know that he has at best a 48" reach. If he has deployed clustered together then I will be safe in one of the corners, and if he has spread out then again I'm still pretty safe in the corners because he can only bring a couple of Venoms into range. In either case my 12" move forward (after his movement forward into range) will easily let me get the first shots off. The same goes for a Guard or SW lists heavy on Missiles/Lascannons, behind a ruin to get 4+ cover or in area terrain to get 5+ (usually more than this due to Night Fight) combined with T8 means I'm not worried about him dying turn 1 since I know how deployment works. And as already mentioned if you are really that worried about him dying turn 1 then just put him in normal reserve, he has a 48" reach (i.e the entire table) and can make it anywhere on the table in 3 turns if he is in a hurry.

@schadenfreude. The issue is that of those options you have listed only DE and Eldar are using ranged weapons. With a 12" move the only unit that might catch you is a Dreadknight (which you focus down pretty fast with Shuriken and Monofilament), normal GKs have no chance. Nids should never catch you with Gaunts (they could send a Flyrant in I guess, but I suspect the Wraithknight wins that fight due to the wound difference and T8 forcing the Flyrant to Smash and halve attacks), and Orks/Chaos/Guard should definitely never catch you (with non Fleet infantry).

 Vineheart01 wrote:
id love to see the stats but from what ive heard i doubt i'll see it unless someone just wants it on the table.

~70-100 more than the Riptide and on average isnt doing as much, and to me the riptide is a distraction not a legit threat. It pops light vehicles and termies, but aside from that i'd rather use crisis suits. However, it is indeed one hell of a distraction...people seem hellbent on killing it and usually dont succeed.

T8 pretty much just rules out the random infantry gak firing at it. Every army still has plenty of things to kill it. Orks are probably the lowest chances, but even they will cause some damage since it will almost never hide from the loota fire. And Ghaz will still eat its face, which is my normal tactic for dealing with Dreadknights.

It's not a character so a nob with a klaw can just chip away at it while it spends all of it's time scraping 6 point boys off it's bootsi. lt kills less than 2 boys per turn, about 1.6rper turn

its pretty much the shinny turd in the codex. The troops got the real boost.

tgf wrote:
its pretty much the shinny turd in the codex. The troops got the real boost.

Can't argue with in depth analysis like that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

It's not a character so a nob with a klaw can just chip away at it while it spends all of it's time scraping 6 point boys off it's bootsi. lt kills less than 2 boys per turn, about 1.6rper turn

To be fair, that single power claw isn't going to be doing much to the WK either. If he has the Invulnerable we are talking .33 wounds/turn.

Still, the fact that he would be completely swamped is the bigger concern. But, again, as others have mentioned, how in the hell would you let your jump MC get assaulted by a bunch of boys in the first place?

I fully expect the Wraithlord to be FAQ'd to be able to fire all its weapons within the month.

Without it, it's not worth the points.

if i got a blob of 20+ boyz + a klaw nob in assault with any jump MC, the owner of that model is an idiot.

My friends keep pointing out the crappy melee stats on my riptide, and i keep pointing out theyve never gotten near it to take advantage of it.

You know, the more I look at the stock configuration, the more I like it.

Those 10/2s with Distort will be pretty nasty to throw into MCs as well. Between MCs, multi-wound/FNP T5 and lower, and vehicles, its pretty rare for your opponent to not have some prime target for it to shoot at.

I just wish I could take the ++ on the stock somehow.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

tgf wrote:
its pretty much the shinny turd in the codex. The troops got the real boost.

Can't argue with in depth analysis like that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

It's not a character so a nob with a klaw can just chip away at it while it spends all of it's time scraping 6 point boys off it's bootsi. lt kills less than 2 boys per turn, about 1.6rper turn

To be fair, that single power claw isn't going to be doing much to the WK either. If he has the Invulnerable we are talking .33 wounds/turn.

Still, the fact that he would be completely swamped is the bigger concern. But, again, as others have mentioned, how in the hell would you let your jump MC get assaulted by a bunch of boys in the first place?

30 boys has a huge footprint. The jump mc has to keep a safe distance, and thus there is huge area denial. It's a simple choice of not going where the mc would be most effective, or dance around huge areas of denial and plink away with range weapons only. tarpits are a big concern that can render a big jump mc to dakka only for several turns.

Didn't read through every reply here but, a WK with Conceal in area terrain or even behind your own models will have a 3+ cover save, and that combined with T8 is pretty hard to shift. Hell, stick him behind some ruins and it's a 2+ cover. He's big but 25% coverage shouldn't be impossible to achieve.

Conceal only targets the caster.

Oh, damn, well disregard that then...at least he has T8 :(

if conceal targeted any unit, thered be other insanely broken tactics being used already using it. It would make almost any unit ridiculously hard to kill.

Though a seer hq can join a 10 strong wraith guard or a unit of grotesques which have crappy armor saves and would benif benefit a lot from conceal.

After reading this thread I would have to use Jy2s term of "Positional dominance" as the role for the WK. Use it to contest or take (Big Guns Never Tire) mid field or your opponents back field objectives.

If you are deploying first set it up in the middle to give yourself options on how to respond to your opponents deployment. If you are deploying second deploy on a flank to minimize incoming fire while maximizing your threat to your opponents support units.

That is how I see this unit being most effective. It has enough range from what I've read that even being deployed on one edge it can cover half the table with its stock weapons and the weapons are of a high enough grade they can open light to medium armor for other units to shoot at the tender pieces inside. It's close combat skills are such that it is a threat to support units and/or whittled down units (like those popped out of transports).

Just my two cents.

I had my first game yesterday with the new codex and ran the WK in it's base configuration. I was facing Tau which is probably the worse army to face for this model. Three Missilesides pretty much destroyed it by turn 2. I'm thinking of running it with Suncannon/Scatterfield with a Seer council to Fortune it as I quickly move it across the table to get into melee.

God, if only it could be armed with torrent D-Scythes. We'd have the most broken Eldar unit ever.

I'm buying one and a riptide just to build, paint, and sit on the shelf with the rest of my anime figures...

 Vineheart01 wrote:

My friends keep pointing out the crappy melee stats on my riptide, and i keep pointing out theyve never gotten near it to take advantage of it.

Heh, I've been playing Tau too long. There have been times I've seriously considered charging my riptide into close combat because it has strength 6 and 3 attacks (which looks like an amazing close combat profile compared to every other profile I've seen). It fear works it can even hit on a 3+...

Not for a 180pt model that has far better shooting options

 Kain wrote:

 Iranna wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Hahaha, we can put Relentless on our MCs and you can't

All MCs are relentless...

Iranna.

Wait really? Then why does onslaught let me fire all three of a Tfex's guns?

Unless 1d4chan's tactica lied to me.

A TFex can always fire all three of its guns due to the rules for the Thorax Swarm itself. It has nothing to do with Relentless or Onslaught.