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So in the last 2 days I've seen at least 3 threads around the general theme of buying recasts or pirating printed rules.

Blah blah blah ethics and morals and hard working game designers and copyrights blah blah.

I assume y'all can fill in that part. So let me get to the part you might be missing.

This site is supported by paying members (DCMs, if you've not joined give it thought, we have all sorts of secret bennies that are totally cool and totally secret) and ads.

You may have noticed them, little banners paid for by folks looking to SELL you games.

The server space and bandwith of this site is not free.

But who would advertise on a site that regularly has threads on 'how can I get this illegally for free'.

So yeah, blah-blah ethics and stuff, but if that doesn't work for you try ENLIGHTENED SELF INTEREST. If you want this site to continue it cannot become a haven for piracy. If you want the like the mini games we play, the cool toys we convert and paint and the friendly local game shops we hang out and the sites we spend WAY TOO MUCH TIME on, cut it out.

'kay?

Yeah!

It is a bit disappointing seeing how many people make those threads, but I don't think it's people who have actually invested in dakka (in terms of time or anything) that are really making them is it? So appealing to that probably won't have too much of an effect... but we can hope.

I got 99 problems but pirated rules ain't one!

 d-usa wrote:
I got 99 problems but pirated rules ain't one!

I've got 99 Luftballoons!

YouTube videos are piracy, bad form there!

 d-usa wrote:
YouTube videos are piracy, bad form there!

It's a complicated old world out there ain't it.

Winners don't do drugs!

Wait. We get bennies? When's that start? I paid because I was promised bunnies.

Dang, foiled again.

This thread is missing the mandatory pirate picture:

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/51961719@N06/5427270101/

Topic, folks.

 motyak wrote:
It is a bit disappointing seeing how many people make those threads, but I don't think it's people who have actually invested in dakka (in terms of time or anything) that are really making them is it? So appealing to that probably won't have too much of an effect... but we can hope.

This is the largest site for this particular hobby that we enjoy. You are always going to get a few bad apples.

 Adam LongWalker wrote:

 motyak wrote:
It is a bit disappointing seeing how many people make those threads, but I don't think it's people who have actually invested in dakka (in terms of time or anything) that are really making them is it? So appealing to that probably won't have too much of an effect... but we can hope.

This is the largest site for this particular hobby that we enjoy. You are always going to get a few bad apples.

Oh, I'm well aware of that, I just meant that saying 'it's bad for the site we love' isn't actually going to stop the majority of those recent threads, usually they are brand new posters (relatively) who just decide this is the best way to get rules/whatever, and don't actually care about whether it'd hurt dakka or not since they have no vested interest in it (even though posters can be here for ages without being DCMs/having a technically 'vested interest' in it, they have invested time and what not)

 motyak wrote:

 Adam LongWalker wrote:

 motyak wrote:
It is a bit disappointing seeing how many people make those threads, but I don't think it's people who have actually invested in dakka (in terms of time or anything) that are really making them is it? So appealing to that probably won't have too much of an effect... but we can hope.

This is the largest site for this particular hobby that we enjoy. You are always going to get a few bad apples.

Oh, I'm well aware of that, I just meant that saying 'it's bad for the site we love' isn't actually going to stop the majority of those recent threads, usually they are brand new posters (relatively) who just decide this is the best way to get rules/whatever, and don't actually care about whether it'd hurt dakka or not since they have no vested interest in it (even though posters can be here for ages without being DCMs/having a technically 'vested interest' in it, they have invested time and what not)

True very true. I just consider that a site this large does not have even more problems than what we are seeing now. But it is good to see the mods to put a stop to it before it gets out of hand

 motyak wrote:
usually they are brand new posters (relatively) who just decide this is the best way to get rules/whatever

What amuses me is that it probably takes longer to sign up here and post than it would to google "{army} codex download" and find it themselves.

 Adam LongWalker wrote:

 motyak wrote:

 Adam LongWalker wrote:

 motyak wrote:
It is a bit disappointing seeing how many people make those threads, but I don't think it's people who have actually invested in dakka (in terms of time or anything) that are really making them is it? So appealing to that probably won't have too much of an effect... but we can hope.

This is the largest site for this particular hobby that we enjoy. You are always going to get a few bad apples.

Oh, I'm well aware of that, I just meant that saying 'it's bad for the site we love' isn't actually going to stop the majority of those recent threads, usually they are brand new posters (relatively) who just decide this is the best way to get rules/whatever, and don't actually care about whether it'd hurt dakka or not since they have no vested interest in it (even though posters can be here for ages without being DCMs/having a technically 'vested interest' in it, they have invested time and what not)

True very true. I just consider that a site this large does not have even more problems than what we are seeing now. But it is good to see the mods to put a stop to it before it gets out of hand

It can't just be left down to the MOD's though, I feel it is as much our responsibilty as users, as it is their's as MOD's. Posting here is after all, a privilege not a right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

 motyak wrote:
usually they are brand new posters (relatively) who just decide this is the best way to get rules/whatever

What amuses me is that it probably takes longer to sign up here and post than it would to google "{army} codex download" and find it themselves.

How many other things can that be said for on this site though. The internet killed off peoples ability to think for themselves.

Eldercaveman wrote:
The internet killed off peoples ability to think for themselves.

Nah, it just exposed a pre-existing tendency towards not thinking.

I don't know what threads have been posted recently, but I actually found the various threads about forgeworld recasters over the years to be very informative and on topic for the site as it illustrates the sad fact that recasters outperform forgeworld in reproducing their product.

I think most threads/posts asking for these things are from new or low count posters, not invested in the site but just looking for freebies. Anyone who has been here a while knows the rules.

There does seem to have been a few more than usual recently, but this is the result of many GW policies I think. They have a product that appeals greatly to a younger audience but which is so exorbitantly priced it's unattainable. Added to the way they create no customer goodwill through a wall of silence by refusing to use social media and their secrecy and aggression towards fan sites, and there's no customer loyalty. All these things GW has chosen to do, and people download their books and buy recasts more readily as a result. It might not be 'right' or 'legal', but that's how it goes.

What if I made a thread about wearing an Eye patch and talked like a pirate for that entire thread? does that count?

I kid I kid

I agree that it indirectly is from the new GW policies. Hell DA and Demons were both on a torrent within maybe half a day of release. Its just people looking for a cheap/free way to beat the system that is GW. I've lurked here long enough to know pushing a limit on something even if its defending something that is right.

The way to fight piracy is to develop a relationship with your customer. To make them see the creative people at the centre of a game as people and not just see a faceless entity.

GW does the opposite, so people are more willing to pirate their stuff.

 d-usa wrote:
This thread is missing the mandatory pirate picture:

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/51961719@N06/5427270101/

I officially now want to be a pirate.

But yeah, ethical debates aside (as that's up for debate) I think the simplest thing is to just state:

This site does not allow discussion of methods for copyright infringement as we wish to not get involved in such legal matters and do not support illegal activities.

End of story, don't try and start an ethical debate about why you don't want people posting about how to commit copyright infringement, it's a rule and it's a rule for practical reasons and therefore don't do it. No need to get in to the morales of the poor stores who can't survive if everyone pirates (which is debatable anyway).

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
YouTube videos are piracy, bad form there!

It's a complicated old world out there ain't it.

Winners don't do drugs!

Well, actually...



But yes, asking for pirate recasters is really bad form. Even if we all hate GW's prices, sending people to recasters really isn't ethical for posters on Dakka.

 Adam LongWalker wrote:

This is the largest site for this particular hobby that we enjoy.

Actually, Warseer is larger.

 marv335 wrote:

 Adam LongWalker wrote:

This is the largest site for this particular hobby that we enjoy.

Actually, Warseer is larger.

Why do they then have less visitors and less posts?

Dakka Dakka;
Our users have posted a total of 5,630,131 messages
We have 73,759 registered users.

Warseer;
Posts 6,691,622
Members 84,507

Warseer has 10,748 more registered users and 1,061,531 more posts.

DakkaDakka is not in the business of "beating" Warseer or any other wargames fan site. Different sites complement each other by offering a variety of styles of community for users to enjoy.

Back on topic, if you find a piracy request thread, the easy think is to yellow triangle flag it.

 marv335 wrote:
Dakka Dakka;
Our users have posted a total of 5,630,131 messages
We have 73,759 registered users.

Warseer;
Posts 6,691,622
Members 84,507

Warseer has 10,748 more registered users and 1,061,531 more posts.

Kilkrazy is correct in that we have no interest in actively competing with other sites as all fill particular niches and do their jobs well. I do monitor traffic on all major forums though and can verify that dakka is by far the largest site. I monitor to make sure I understand global wargaming trends in traffic, make sure we don't miss out on any cool features that others might add and see any interesting trends. To correct misconceptions, I can verify that for the past quarter, our post rate is 260% of warseer and our new user rate is well over double. Unregistered audience is harder to track but at a minimum I would say we have at least 200% greater reach these days. The large user and post numbers for warseer and librarium online come from them having much older databases than dakka as ours only dates back to 2006 or so.

For clarity, my comment was trying to emphasis that we are one of the largest (if not the largest) sites within this hobby we enjoy, we are going to get more bad apples with their opinions and viewpoints. I'm actually surprised that not more of this (piracy threads) are on here. I figure that it is the quality/maturity of people posting is one of the reasons why, and of course the actions of the mods themselves. As someone else posted that we the viewers should help in policing as well. I'm in agreement with that as well.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

There does seem to have been a few more than usual recently, but this is the result of many GW policies I think. They have a product that appeals greatly to a younger audience but which is so exorbitantly priced it's unattainable. Added to the way they create no customer goodwill through a wall of silence by refusing to use social media and their secrecy and aggression towards fan sites, and there's no customer loyalty. All these things GW has chosen to do, and people download their books and buy recasts more readily as a result. It might not be 'right' or 'legal', but that's how it goes.

Gotta disagree here, there's a comic creator Colleen Doran who posts her work online for free.

http://www.adistantsoil.com/

Her stuff gets pirated!

Which deprives her of the minimal income from the ads.

At this point is has little do to with pricing (DC comics are generally a buck cheaper than Marvel's, they still get pirated) or goodwill or things not being available in format X, it's people wanting stuff now, for free.

So for the good of this site, if not ethics and the good of the hobby/industry as a whole, do not advocate piracy, do not promote it, do not condone it, do not excuse it, do not justify it here.

'kay?

Though online content being pirated is really apples to oranges when compared to physical goods. The people "consuming" GW/etc are customers wanting to buy a cheaper version of the real thing. The people "consuming" stolen online content are generally people looking for funny content who end up on a content-stealing website more by happenstance than by choice to not support the original artist. ie the The Oatmeal example.

It sucks when commercial interests dictate what people can and cannot discuss. As for ads, do people actually see them? I thought all the smart internet users use an adblocking extension on their browser.