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This thread is for those who have seen the film to discuss it openly. If you want to discuss Man of Steel without spoilers, there is a thread for that here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/521351.page

This thread will be chocked full of spoilers. You have been warned.



It is still around 8:00 pm on the Pacific coast and MoS won't start for around four hours (midnight show). East coast people are probably in the theater watching in now. I've no idea what's happening around the world.

So, I've got my ticket and apparently some time to kill.

Who else is going, or have already gone to an early showing?

As for the movie, I'm excited to see the non-insane version of Zod. I didn't like how he was done in the 80s version, nor in Smallville. A soldier looking to scour Earth and remake it into a new starting place for Krypton civilization (where everyone gets to be a god) is an interesting take.

I've got to wait two weeks before I have a chance to see it, thanks to stupid Australian release dates, but I have a couple of questions for before then:

1. How much is the movie weighted towards the origin story trailers (which I hated) compared to the "YOU. ARE. NOT. ALONE." trailer (which I loved)?

2. How do they treat Faora (General Zod's right-hand woman). She looks awesome, but her comic counterpart was apparently some man-hating strawman feminist. I'd rather they avoided that.

Okay. 45 before midnight. I'm off to the theater. Sploitz ya when I get back. Maybe.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Aaaaaaand I'm back...

Okay. I must admit that I enjoyed this a hell of a lot more than the Avengers.

Seeing Superman throw punches, use his heat vision, and fly super fast is so much of a relief given the emo Smallville version or the milktoast turbo-nerd of Christopher Reeve.

I see the hints of how Luther will come to be Superman's enemy given the large scale destruction of Metropolis. Man, that city looked worse than when the alien destroyed it in Cloverfield. Damage was amazingly realistic, too.

Zod as a genetically engineered soldier instead of just a guy who became a soldier is also an interesting choice. A society where everyone is genetically pre-programmed to fulfill a role was handled really well here.

Quibbles include the destruction of Krypton. Core implosion that results in an explosion? Really? Still, not a big issue. The other is where Superman is constantly looking like a chump who's just gotten his arse beat. Every punch he takes, he's on the ground acting like he's done for. It was really done too often and made Superman look a little too weak given that the rest of the Krypton soliders basically shrugged off similar punches.

So, now that those of you reading this thread have (hopefully) seen it, what do you think?

 AlexHolker wrote:
1. How much is the movie weighted towards the origin story trailers (which I hated) compared to the "YOU. ARE. NOT. ALONE." trailer (which I loved)?

2. How do they treat Faora (General Zod's right-hand woman). She looks awesome, but her comic counterpart was apparently some man-hating strawman feminist. I'd rather they avoided that.

First question. Of course this is heavily weighted toward the origin story. But it's a different take than what we've seen previously in the movies or on Smallville. It pays only slight homage to the 80s film and none to Smallville. Man of Steel starts out showing the demise of Krypton, the stagnation and dysfunction of Kryptonian society, and sending Zod & Co. to the Phantom Zone while Kal-el is shipped off to Earth. Krypton is a "post" intersteller civilization and all her colonies have been lost. On Earth, the story of Clark's childhood is told through flashbacks and finally through Lois Lane tracking him down to his home in Smallville.

Second question. Faora is a cold arse soldier and little else. She was genetically bred to be who she is and has no morals like Clark does. Neither she nor Zod are insane, thugs, or mustashe twirling villans. This version, imo, is much improved over the previous almost comical version.

Best Superman movie yet, but pretty unremarkable otherwise. The first 15 minutes were probably the best. It's fun watching Supes and Zod duke it out on the big screen, if you're willing to pay 11 bucks for it. I wish I hadn't.

 AlexHolker wrote:
1. How much is the movie weighted towards the origin story trailers (which I hated) compared to the "YOU. ARE. NOT. ALONE." trailer (which I loved)?

A little of both. Once the Krypton story is out of the way the movie jumps ahead 33 years. It tells bits and pieces of his back-story as it goes along, so that it jumps from the current day to the past and back and forth.

I enjoyed. Some of the camera work I was less than enthused with, but overall I thought it was a good job. They mad Zod and his forces relocatable, still wrong mind you, but they aren't mustache twirlers as noted above. It was nice to see them do super combat in a movie finally. The sheer amount of destruction was impressive. While they don't show much of it, the death toll had to be pretty staggering, excluding Krypton's population of course. I liked the relationship set up between Lois and Clark. Only through my amazing, unprecedented levels of masculinity that kept me from crying when Johnathan Kent died. It did a god job of setting up why Superman acts the way he does, even if it is doubting in himself or in us.

Man of Steal (your money) 2/10

I was going to give it 0/10 but the scenes of the F35's totally sucking earned it some points back.

Wow. Two people who didn't like it? You guys Donner fans or something?

I liked how they showed the scale of destruction caused by Superman fighting the Kryptonians.

I also think the whole thing where Lois couldn't figure out Clark was Supes was always stupid and contrived. Glad they dumped it this time.

Could have done without Pa Kent being a martyr in the tornado thing, though.

I really dislike the Star Wars prequel inspired Planet Krypton. Worst part of the movie for me. I was deeply disappointed with the rushed backstory of Zod and Jor-el whom both seemed to be attempting to do the same thing and yet felt the need to oppose each other for it. I would have much rather seen 30 minutes of this film solely dedicated to establishing the narrative. Zod spending 33 years looking for Kal? How unrealistic, why could they not simply have used the phantom zone as Zods reason for being absent for 33 years instead of asking us to believe that he would just mindlessly be doing the same search the entire time. After like 10 years I think Zods people would have just said feth it lets build a new Krypton somewhere and sexually reproduce. Lois being in on Clark's identity from day one it pretty lame. And Clark's willingness to kill and callously fighting Zod in metropolis was very out of character. They really should have held Zod for the sequels and kept a smaller more grounded narrative to reboot the franchise. I feel this movie ultimately was to large in scope and it will make Superman fighting a human like Lex in the sequels less impactful on audiences.

Still a good movie and I think All the actors were rightly cast in their roles, but I gave it a 7/10 because there were just some major missteps that hurt this film and ultimately I feel the DC brand was not helped after the failures of DKR and Green Lantern.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
I really dislike the Star Wars prequel inspired Planet Krypton. Worst part of the movie for me. I was deeply disappointed with the rushed backstory of Zod and Jor-el whom both seemed to be attempting to do the same thing and yet felt the need to oppose each other for it. I would have much rather seen 30 minutes of this film solely dedicated to establishing the narrative.

I think that the conflict between the two did a good job explaining what was wrong with Krypton and their way of life. Both were genetically engineered for their purpose. Zod was created to be a soldier, a military solution to any problem. He didn't decide to be General Zod, he was created to be General Zod and everything he knows about protecting his people would always require a military solution. Jor-El was created to be a scientist, to think and to experiment. That was the only way he knew how to solve this problem. Krypton has engineered both these people to such an extend that they could not compromise against their genetic engineering. That's why the whole thing about Superman being able to make choices is such a big deal, even from the very beginning of the movie.

Zod spending 33 years looking for Kal? How unrealistic, why could they not simply have used the phantom zone as Zods reason for being absent for 33 years instead of asking us to believe that he would just mindlessly be doing the same search the entire time. After like 10 years I think Zods people would have just said feth it lets build a new Krypton somewhere and sexually reproduce.

They needed the Codex, without it they could not rebuild Krypton. So they kept on looking for it. And even if they just would decide "hey guys, Jor-El was right and we should just feth" you might remember that Krypton was gone. Kaputt. And with it every piece of their technology. The movie made it clear that they didn't just hop from planet to planet going "nope, he's not here". They also gathered supplies and resources to eventually build a new Krypton which they found in the old outposts. They wouldn't have been able to attempt to terraform Earth if they wouldn't have spend 33 years gathering supplies.

Lois being in on Clark's identity from day one it pretty lame.

Lois being in on Clark's identity is a lot better than the ace reporter being to stupid to figure out that both the guys she wants to bang is the same guy with removable glasses IMO.

And Clark's willingness to kill and callously fighting Zod in metropolis was very out of character.

There were lots of implied deaths, but not because Superman "killed" them. I think it is in Supermans character to fight and risk some lives instead of not fighting and letting every single human on earth die. And I thought that having him kill Zod, after a very emotional struggle before being forced to make that decision and clearly struggling with what he did afterwards, was a great moment in his character.

They really should have held Zod for the sequels and kept a smaller more grounded narrative to reboot the franchise. I feel this movie ultimately was to large in scope and it will make Superman fighting a human like Lex in the sequels less impactful on audiences.

I thought it was a good reboot. He killed Zod because he had no other reason, he fought and fought him and realized that he could never stop him in any other way. No prison on Earth would hold him, he would never stop attacking, so he had to go. Fights against Lex will be able to show the need to balance the fighting against his ability to kill.

Still a good movie and I think All the actors were rightly cast in their roles, but I gave it a 7/10 because there were just some major missteps that hurt this film and ultimately I feel the DC brand was not helped after the failures of DKR and Green Lantern.

Agreed on good casting. I would give it a 8.5/10 and I think it was a good step for DC. I'm not too worried about the failures of DKR and Green Lantern. I don't think the Batman Triology will be a part of the Justice League and the Avengers were able to recover from a few bad Hulk movies before taking off.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
I was deeply disappointed with the rushed backstory of Zod and Jor-el whom both seemed to be attempting to do the same thing and yet felt the need to oppose each other for it.

I can understand that. I think Jor-El wanted to see Kryptonian civilization restored in all its glory while Zod wanted a perfect society which meant elimination of any bloodlines that didn't meet his specs. I also didn't get the feeling that Jor-El ever really liked Zod to begin with.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Zod spending 33 years looking for Kal? How unrealistic, why could they not simply have used the phantom zone as Zods reason for being absent for 33 years instead of asking us to believe that he would just mindlessly be doing the same search the entire time. After like 10 years I think Zods people would have just said feth it lets build a new Krypton somewhere and sexually reproduce.

Zod wasn't looking for Kal-El. He was after the codex that was "supposedly" hidden in Kal's ship. The film pointed out several times that Zod was genetically engineered to be a warrior who would protect Krypton at all costs. When Krypton popped, Zod's only way to proceed was to reestablish Krypton using the codex. Zod's back story didn't really strike me as him having a whole lot of free will the way you and I define it.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
And Clark's willingness to kill and callously fighting Zod in metropolis was very out of character.

Superman had lots of mano a mano fights in downtown Metropolis in the comics. Stuff was always being destroyed. This was just the first time they showed it in a movie. It also seemed that Clark really didn't want to kill Zod and only did it because those people were about to be flash-fried right in front of him.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
They really should have held Zod for the sequels and kept a smaller more grounded narrative to reboot the franchise. I feel this movie ultimately was to large in scope and it will make Superman fighting a human like Lex in the sequels less impactful on audiences.

I agree with your concerns but past movies have made Superman way too small compared to who he is in the comics.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
...ultimately I feel the DC brand was not helped after the failures of DKR and Green Lantern.

I don't think DKR was a failure on the same scale as GL but I see your point. However, I think Man of Steel has fewer problems than those two and a far more solid story than The Avengers did.

No, the worst part of this movie was the asshats in the audience who thought it would be cool to try to start a slow clap or let out a "Whoop!" or like that. I really dislike people who have poor impulse control.

I had some issues. I thought a lot of the dialogue was just people spouting platitudes, and there was some deep misunderstandings about how tornadoes work. But I did like a lot of the art direction, as far as the Kryptonian tech and everything.

Plus, if you're enhanced by the radiation you absorb from the sun, why would breathing "kryptonian air" immediately weaken you to the point of being a normal human? I mean, he goes into vaccum just fine, so I guess I must have missed something.

oh yeah, one other thing that bugged me - turning Earth into Krypton isn't terraforming. Terraforming means making a planet more like Earth - terra. You can't terraform Earth. That always bugs me in movies.

8/10, it was pretty damn good. A little goofy here and there with a couple staggers and missteps but good over all. I thought the anguish after killing Zod was a nice touch. Also really liked Lois Lane for the first time in ANY Superman media, and not just because the character is wearing Amy Adams at the moment. (Yowza!)

 Bromsy wrote:
oh yeah, one other thing that bugged me - turning Earth into Krypton isn't terraforming. Terraforming means making a planet more like Earth - terra. You can't terraform Earth. That always bugs me in movies.

That and referring to other star systems as "solar systems". There is only one Solar System in the entire universe. Ever. Our sun is named Sol. The system created around it is the Solar System. Any other star system should be named after the parent star. The problem is that that scientists give stars stupid names like Beta Centauri instead of using the common name (Hadar for Beta Centauri). Hadaran System sounds better and is more correcct than saying, "Beta Centauri's solar system".

Hey man this thing will push .9 past light speed, we can get you to the Hadaran system in under 12 parsecs easy!

Common names will take precedence once people other then eggheads are navigating outer space me thinks.

Loved every minute. I was not just entertained, I was astounded. This film does full credit to Superman. It hits every meaningful note and goes above and beyond on most of them. I have been so nervous about this and for my money it's a home run.

I watched Man Of Steel last night with my mate and our two teenage sons.We were blown away, the lads more from the explosive battles,my friend and i by the way kryptonian life was portrayed and by how they actually showed krypton as a living breathing world and not just a hokey white desert background.
I also liked how superman behaved in this film and found him a lot more likeable as a result.The effects were beautiful and believable on the whole(once you look past the super powers thing).It may sound harsh but i liked how there were actual casualties from the battles and there were consequences from all the destruction.
This was a great Friday night movie and the audience around me seemed to love it too.

I think they sought out DM's for advice, as they have a lot of experience with creating untenable situations for paladins, such as at the end where Superman had to decide between saving Earth or ending Zod. Even in the comic he has fallen before and killed, so it isn't as if there isn't precedent.

I'm fine with almost all the changes they made, finding new spins on old hoary tropes. I'm ok with Lois knowing earlier rather than later as movies generally don't have the luxury of moving at comics snail pace for character development. It gives them time to develop the relationship.

I liked the look of Krypton, though the liquid metal all around didn't do much for me visually, but that is an aesthetic choice.

Having Pa Kent die in the tornado fit in with the character they had developed of Johnathan Kent up that point, and was not an issue for me.

I don't recall the Kryptonians calling it terraform, they just called the machine a world changer. It would make sense that the humans wouldn't take the time to create a new word for the process when we have a word that used in that sense already. Commonly used phrases don't always mean exactly the same thing as technical use, just look at the 'traitor' thread where we discuss the normative use versus the legal meaning.

I don't really get the complaint about the F-35's 'sucking'. They did as much as a vehicle could against such a physics defying piece of equipment, especially one that is in the air.

I liked when Jor-El told Zod that he had a natural born child and Zod got all flustered and called him a heretic.

They foreshadowed both Brainiac and Lex, and I hope they keep doing interesting takes on the characters. I don't really need to see Donner's Superman repeated ad naseum. I will commit modern heresy though and say I'm a bit tired of the billionaire business Lex Luthor. Implementation will matter most, but I wouldn't mind a fresh look at the character.

This was the first time in a long time where I saw people leaning forward in their chairs, so enraptured with the events of the film and just totally buying into it. It was the scene where Superman was fighting the world changer and I saw a bunch of people in different parts of the seating lean forward, you could practically hear them in their heads cheering Superman on.

Almost forgot, so did anyone else notice the Wayne Corp symbol on the Satellite? Batman is gonna be sooooooo pissed. The LexCorp stuff was more overt.

My friend and I went to see it, full of expectations, thinking the trailers looked awesome, and thought the poor reviews online MUST be wrong, this thing looks great! Half an hour into the movie, we were both ready to drive off (went to the drive in), but figured we'd stick it out and hope it got better. The scenes were all over the place, the timeframe jumped back and forth and was difficult to follow, and it just felt blah and boring. The trailer is a perfect showing of the movie: the scenes bounce all over, both in time and in location, and there is no real character growth at all. It looked like they just tried to throw as much stuff in as possible and hope people got it. I suppose I should have expected this: 300 did nothing for me, Watchmen sucked ass, and Zach Snyder has proven himself to be a crappy director to me (opinion here). I'll be honest, Green Lantern was better!

 Manchu wrote:
Loved every minute. I was not just entertained, I was astounded. This film does full credit to Superman. It hits every meaningful note and goes above and beyond on most of them. I have been so nervous about this and for my money it's a home run.

I admit to being somewhat surprised that Superman killed Zod, but as already noted, I guess there really was no other choice?

And I suppse that Superman did kill Zod 'in the Comics', so there is that too.

IIRC though, he kinda lost it after he did.

 Ahtman wrote:

Almost forgot, so did anyone else notice the Wayne Corp symbol on the Satellite? Batman is gonna be sooooooo pissed. The LexCorp stuff was more overt.

I missed the Wayne Corp symbol! Argh!

And yeah, the Lexcorp one was an easy spot...

Thought it was very good--it had moments of brilliance then some rather poor moments. Characters seemed like they were giving speeches rather than engaging in conversation at times.

My 8 year old son would nudge me during the fight scenes with a crazy maniacal grin and whisper "This is awesome!"---so I think it probably hit the young ones pretty well. Scene where it showed Kevin Costner looking at Supes when he was a kid--with a cape around him--was probably the most quiet I've heard a theater in a bit.

 Ahtman wrote:
They foreshadowed [...] Brainiac

What were the tells you noticed?

For me:
- the codex being a skull (just a gut feeling)
- the look/operation of Kryptonian world engine tech
- the fate of the Kryptonian colonies
- the absence of an explanation for why they abandoned the colonies

 Ahtman wrote:
This was the first time in a long time where I saw people leaning forward in their chairs

I didn't notice anyone doing this ...

... because I was doing it!

 Alpharius wrote:
I admit to being somewhat surprised that Superman killed Zod

My jaw dropped. I thought it was an amazing choice. Will make for good dialog with Bruce in JL.

 Manchu wrote:
- the look/operation of Kryptonian world engine tech
- the fate of the Kryptonian colonies

These two mostly, though the AI servants following them around everywhere and their reliance on them to some extent as well. The one that attacked Superman, and later Lois, inside the ship sets a p[recedent for how they created their machines and what they were capable of.

Am I just missing it, or is Superman snapping Zod's neck being met with a sort of "Meh" response?

It would be hard to not 'justify' it, given what Zod not only was about to do, but what he'd already done, and was threatening to do...

 Alpharius wrote:
Am I just missing it, or is Superman snapping Zod's neck being met with a sort of "Meh" response?

It would be hard to not 'justify' it, given what Zod not only was about to do, but what he'd already done, and was threatening to do...

I've actually seen a lot of backlash to it, though often from those I wouldn't call well steeped in the characters history. One reviewer (AV Club):

This sort of “cool,” over-the-top brutality—while pretty typical for a Snyder movie—doesn’t gel with Superman’s character.

Forcing Superman to do something un-Superman-like can often make for a good story. In this case, however, it comes across as unearned; by the time Cavill kills Shannon, he’s only been Superman for a few days.

Besides that fact that Superman has done it before (General Zod and lackeys, Doomsday) it seemed to me that the fact that he is inexperienced would make it make more sense, not less. I liked that they made him have to make hard, difficult decision and didn't give him a family friendly movie cop out. It gives weight and importance to the decisions he has to make if there are actual consequences. He made a tough choice and is going to have to live with it. It seems as if one can not win win doing Superman. Make him to goody goody and people complain that he is boring and irrelevant, make him have to deal with hard choices and people complain that he isn't Superman.

 Ahtman wrote:

Besides that fact that Superman has done it before (General Zod and lackeys, Doomsday) it seemed to me that the fact that he is inexperienced would make it make more sense, not less. I liked that they made him have to make hard, difficult decision and didn't give him a family friendly movie cop out. It gives weight and importance to the decisions he has to make if there are actual consequences. He made a tough choice and is going to have to live with it. It seems as if one can not win win doing Superman. Make him to goody goody and people complain that he is boring and irrelevant, make him have to deal with hard choices and people complain that he isn't Superman.

It is the classic Superman "problem".

I suppose it both bothered me and didn't.

Did - old Superman Comics Continuity History 'hangups'?

Didn't - It clearly wasn't something he wanted to do, and felt he had no choice on, and certainly appeared to feel horrible about...

 Breotan wrote:

 Bromsy wrote:
oh yeah, one other thing that bugged me - turning Earth into Krypton isn't terraforming. Terraforming means making a planet more like Earth - terra. You can't terraform Earth. That always bugs me in movies.

That and referring to other star systems as "solar systems". There is only one Solar System in the entire universe. Ever. Our sun is named Sol. The system created around it is the Solar System. Any other star system should be named after the parent star. The problem is that that scientists give stars stupid names like Beta Centauri instead of using the common name (Hadar for Beta Centauri). Hadaran System sounds better and is more correcct than saying, "Beta Centauri's solar system".

This is actually incorrect, our solar system is the Sol system, not the Solar system. The solar system Krypton resides in is the Krypton system. Note which words are capitalized and which aren't. To make it clearer, Sol system is a proper noun referring to a specific solar system. Solar system is a noun used to define a category of systems orbiting a star.

I thought that Superman killing Zod was a great jump in how he is portrayed in a movie. You can tell that he tried everything he can without having to resort to it, and that there was some emotional trauma afterwards. I know that it makes sense and that he had to do it, and that he has done it in the comics before. But I was still sitting there going "he just killed him by just twisting his neck!"

I think showing that he is able to break the neck of one of the most powerful villains makes his choice to not squash any other 'lesser' bad guy that much more compelling.

 Breotan wrote:


No, the worst part of this movie was the asshats in the audience who thought it would be cool to try to start a slow clap or let out a "Whoop!" or like that. I really dislike people who have poor impulse control.

I'm afraid I was obligated to let out a quiet, "That's what she said." when Lois exclaimed, "It's supposed to go all the way in!" in reference to the command key as they were about to bomb Zod's ship.

This movie did not feel like a "Super hero" movie at all.

This was a fantastic Science Fiction movie!

And I was totally OK with that.

Loved the movie. I really liked the Kryptonian scenes in the beginning. It kind of made me recall the first time I saw the Movie Heavy Metal when I was a kid, and brought back that sense of wonder.

Really amazing movie.

If I had to quibble about something it would be that it kind of got tiresome after the 14th time seeing Super Man fly into or one of the Kryptonians fly into Super man, knocking each other down or into a building. I mean I think seeing that 3 or 4 times would have been sufficient.

One other thing that kind of made me wonder...where the heck was the Justice League while all this was going on? Maybe they don't exist yet?

GG

 generalgrog wrote:
One other thing that kind of made me wonder...where the heck was the Justice League while all this was going on? Maybe they don't exist yet?

The Justice League was founded by Superman and Batman, iirc, so it wouldn't have been around yet.

chaos0xomega wrote:
This is actually incorrect, our solar system is the Sol system, not the Solar system. The solar system Krypton resides in is the Krypton system. Note which words are capitalized and which aren't.

Solar System is a proper name and should not be used in lower case or as a generic term. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_System