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I thought dixie chick lost her breathing helmet briefly, too. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

She definitely did; it threw her off though because she had trouble adjusting to the atmosphere (like Clark on their ship). Same happened to Zod at first; remember, they had to carry him back onto his shuttle.

 Ahtman wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
Jor-El specifically cites the solar radiation

Jor-El (AI) also says that the oxygen rich atmosphere enhanced the effects for more then even he expected. The only other Kryptonian that took off their breathing helmet was Zod, and it almost immediately supercharged him.

Okay, so then perhaps the atmosphere doesn't directly give him powers; it supercharges his cells, making them more efficient at absorbing and processing solar radiation. There's still probably some things there that need some smoothing over, but that generally works as an explanation.

I believe the weakness aboard the ship was evidence of the concept of kryptonite. All kryptonite is is a rock from krypton and that is extremely poisonous to Superman. All of the ships were made from elements from krypton so they would be essentially ships made from kryptonite.

I also believe in the super charging aspects of supermans powers as described in the Reign of Superman storyline where the resurrected superman was nearly as weak as a human as he had exhausted all his power fighting Doomsday and was only recharged by the Eradicator sacrificing himself and transferring his stored energy to Superman.

I believe Zods people had powers like superman due to their kryptonite battlesuits. Perhaps the krypton imams found a way to augment their soldiers with suits that emulated the yellow sun exposure but the over wheeling exposure to direct radiation was overwhelming and something Kal had adapted to.

I would like to have seen Zod more reliant on technology and less instant powers like in the final fight.

Still don't understand how he survived not being sucked into the phantom zone(which was done very poorly IMO) when it appeared to even be effecting Kal?

Nah, Kryptonite is not the same thing as any matter from Krypton.

As to the battlesuits, I think that's pretty debatable. By the end of the film, Zod is clearly not relying on a battlesuit. But earlier on, it does seem likely that the battlesuit is important. It would certainly explain how a scientist like Jor'El could stand up against guys bred to be soldiers.

The battle suits certainly didn't give them the ability to fly on Krypton, or we would have seen them flying there, no?

They could have augmented their strength and added protection, certainly. But not to the level of Superman, so I don't buy that, Necronlord3.

I don't think Faora or her unnamed buddy were flying but rather just jumping during the fight in Smallville. Zod flies in the battle over (and through) Metropolis but -- as already mentioned -- he obviously has super powers by that point.

I felt they had super strength and speed, at least, the whole time they were on earth. At least, they appeared to in the fights with Superman and the humans.

 kronk wrote:
The battle suits certainly didn't give them the ability to fly on Krypton, or we would have seen them flying there, no?

They could have augmented their strength and added protection, certainly. But not to the level of Superman, so I don't buy that, Necronlord3.

Of course not and you don't even see them flying on earth in the suits either. It could provide a similar effect but of course not on the level that direct exposure does. Even Superman appeared to be incapable of flight until he leapt high enough into the atmosphere to receive more direct exposure to solar radiation. Once he did that he was fully capable of flight.

@Kronk: Agreed.

The question is, did their battle suits contribute at all to their abilities or was it simply the effect of yellow sun radiation?

I think the helmet thing was not just that the direct exposure to the atmosphere messed with them, but that the helmets also functioned to filter out input to their senses.

So once the helmets were removed, they were overwhelmed with the amount of new sensations they experienced.

 Manchu wrote:
Nah, Kryptonite is not the same thing as any matter from Krypton.

No,of course it isn't any matter as Kal is matter from Krypton. But it is elements from krypton. One of the more recent explanations for the lethality of kryptonite is that it is a radioactive fused form of the kryptonian planet core. Which when introduced in future sequels would explain its presence as a way to kill superman. But simple exposure to elements from krypton could weaken kryptonians to a near human level.

Doesn't seem to be the case. As soon as Jor'El changes the atmospheric conditions on-board Zod's ship, Superman is back to full power.

No he was stronger. It wasn't until he knocked out the wall and was directly exposed to the sun that he was repowered.

The solar radiation was clearly stronger than the elements of the ship, however it is also clear the writers lacked the knowledge to differentiate between atmosphere and radiation, more evidence of why this movie is more of a 7/10.

 d-usa wrote:
I think the helmet thing was not just that the direct exposure to the atmosphere messed with them, but that the helmets also functioned to filter out input to their senses.

So once the helmets were removed, they were overwhelmed with the amount of new sensations they experienced.

I vaguely recall them talking about the helmets allowing them to focus or something...

 NecronLord3 wrote:
No he was stronger. It wasn't until he knocked out the wall and was directly exposed to the sun that he was repowered.

The solar radiation was clearly stronger than the elements of the ship, however it is also clear the writers lacked the knowledge to differentiate between atmosphere and radiation, more evidence of why this movie is more of a 7/10.

The only evidence I saw was no powers => ship conditions change => powers. I also saw nothing that suggested it was the material of the ship that depowered him. I think you're on your own on this one.

I suspect that the writers were attempting to explain the age-old question why the Kryptonians didn't move to systems with yellow suns to become gods. There have been other answers, but in this case, it seems that the answer was that the atmosphere that brings them full power also tends to be toxic to most of them.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
No he was stronger. It wasn't until he knocked out the wall and was directly exposed to the sun that he was repowered.

I don't think the movie actually supports that. Jor'El tells him to punch the wall and he nonchalantly knocks a hole through the bulkhead. Doesn't seem underpowered to me.

Yeah, he didn't hit it too hard to put a hole in it.

I'm still not sure how they fly, though. He initially tries to jump far, ala The Hulk, but somehow he figures it out. How does that work, exactly? Does he just "will it"? When he out flies the mini-black hole's event horizon, it looks like he's straining. How does one strain while flying. How does one fly faster? Urgh!

The small shot of the little rocks starting to lift up around his fist before he starts to really fly for the first time seems to imply that he somehow manipulates the air or energy around him.

The big jumping thing is not flying at all and just a result of the lower gravity of earth, every one of the people from krypton seem to be able to do it instantly. Flying just seems to work on a different level of abilities.

 gorgon wrote:
Khe only evidence I saw was no powers => ship conditions change => powers. I also saw nothing that suggested it was the material of the ship that depowered him. I think you're on your own on this one.

Zod even said the atmosphere on the ship was the cause of Superman losing his powers. I believe the quote was, "makes him as weak as a human."

Ah. Vibro-planing. Got it. I liked the scene with the rocks.

 kronk wrote:
How does one fly faster?

Gravitons.

This is all handwavium territory. Remember, we're doing comic book scifi here.

Fair enough.

 Manchu wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
No he was stronger. It wasn't until he knocked out the wall and was directly exposed to the sun that he was repowered.

I don't think the movie actually supports that. Jor'El tells him to punch the wall and he nonchalantly knocks a hole through the bulkhead. Doesn't seem underpowered to me.

He definitely takes a moment to "charge up" before heading out, implying that either Superman knows he is a bit weaker still, or at least feels that way.
Jor'El tells him to knock the wall out so that he can see Lois in danger, in order to save her. Instead of zooming straight out, he *falls back* out of the hole and very deliberately hangs in the sun for a few moments before zooming off. All this while Lois is in a burning pod, which is cause for urgency.

Hold up, we're getting off course.

This originally came up because NecronLord3 theorized that Superman was weakened on Zod's ship because the ship was made of Kyptonian elements (a la Kryptonite).

I said this couldn't be the case because Superman is able to break out of his restraints/put a hole in a space ship as soon as Jor'El changes the ship's atmosphere to be earth-like.

I guess the problem is I said "fully powered." I don't know what the upper limit to Superman's power is. If he flew inside of the sun, how powerful would he get? So yeah, when he exits Zod's ship the cut definitely emphasizes he's soaking up solar radiation. (There's a similar cut later after he's been choking on the world engine's smog.)

But the point remains, the movie doesn't seem to support Superman being depowered by the materials the ship is made out of. Further evidence for this is that Clark suffers no depowering when exploring the scout ship in the arctic or on that same ship when Zod is flying it at the end.

Doesn't Kryptonite affect all Kryptonians the same anyway?

When the scientists on earth talk about the world engine, they mention that it is shooting particulates into the air to change the atmosphere. So who knows, it could be as simple as having an atmosphere that has a high particulate count that acts as a filter to block out the radiation from the sun.

The problem is the writers choose to say atmosphere. Which isn't supermans source of power. They should have said environment, which encompasses lighting air earth etc... I would have shown Krypton entirely in reddish tones to emphasis the red sun and also done so with the insides of the kryptonian vessels. This would have made sense to effect Supermans powers, but it should never have been a situation of on off as Kal absorbs solar energy and has always stored it like a battery. If has very rarely been in any situation which greatly decreases his level of stored energy but when he does go to other systems his powers do decrease over time.

This film was good but the plot holes were bad and very distracting.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Having pa kent die from a tornado when Clark could have easily saved him was unforgivable to me.

Point ...

... entirely missed!

 NecronLord3 wrote:

This film was good but the plot holes were bad and very distracting.

Spoiler:

Having pa kent die from a tornado when Clark could have easily saved him was unforgivable to me.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
it should never have been a situation of on off as Kal absorbs solar energy and has always stored it like a battery

Yeah, I think you have a point there. The idea that he'd nearly immediately be of normal strength on Zod's ship is definitely an artifact of narrative convenience. To be fair, they did frame it well with him getting dizzy and coughing blood.