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2013/07/01 20:59:05
Subject: [SPOILERS] Man of Steel discussion Thread
Thee are dozens of alternate universes in DC but in current cannon, the DNA of Kryptonians and Humans is incompatible.
And for the record Armagedon 2001 was awesome and featured allot of amazing alternate futures for DC characters. I paticularly like the one where Superman becomes pompous and begins to imposes his will on the world, until they send Batman in a reversal fight from that of DKR where in this situation Batman kills Superman. It was great. Armagedon 2001 was ruined by storyline leaks that spoiled the ending where Captain Atom turned out to be Monarch and was a much more plausible incarnation of Monarch than Hawk was.
2013/07/01 22:53:31
Subject: [SPOILERS] Man of Steel discussion Thread
Maybe, like in All Star Superman someone clever .. like Luthor .. .. figures out how to make them compatible.
Plus.. there's the whole magic angle too.
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We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
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2013/07/02 14:49:47
Subject: [SPOILERS] Man of Steel discussion Thread
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2013/07/02 15:03:37
Subject: [SPOILERS] Man of Steel discussion Thread
NecronLord3 wrote: Thee are dozens of alternate universes in DC but in current cannon, the DNA of Kryptonians and Humans is incompatible.
They've already established this in the "New 52"?
Man, they move fast!
I missed that. Not saying that it hasn't been established, but I don't remember seeing it in Action Comics or Superman in the New 52. Was it in Supergirl or Superboy?
Of course, the point remains that the movie is in fact a sort of alternate universe to the comics anyway.
Edit: Back on topic, I forgot to mention that the shot in the movie of Krypton's destroyed moon was a nice nod to the old comics. I believe Jax-Ur was the one who wrecked it, although he doesn't appear to be the guilty party in Man of Steel.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/02 16:53:51
NecronLord3 wrote: Thee are dozens of alternate universes in DC but in current cannon, the DNA of Kryptonians and Humans is incompatible.
They've already established this in the "New 52"?
Man, they move fast!
I missed that. Not saying that it hasn't been established, but I don't remember seeing it in Action Comics or Superman in the New 52. Was it in Supergirl or Superboy?
Of course, the point remains that the movie is in fact a sort of alternate universe to the comics anyway.
Edit: Back on topic, I forgot to mention that the shot in the movie of Krypton's destroyed moon was a nice nod to the old comics. I believe Jax-Ur was the one who wrecked it, although he doesn't appear to be the guilty party in Man of Steel.
This is exactly why I can't understand, much less get into anything DC, everything is friggen time travel or extra dimensions or some BS I watched a cartoon movie with my sisters kid while babysitting him, it was alternate reality superman being a mob boss or something and alt. reality batman trying to blow up the world
Then the next movie was all time travel BS Then the video game comes out, its alt. reality superman being evil
I can deal with this, its stupid, but I can deal with it, I treat it like a TNG episode where everything is all weird "lol what if everyone was a pirate! but still sort of the regular characters too!" its fairly typical bad writing.
What gets me isn't just bad writing, its that they try and tie everything together, its just terrible.
Also is it just me or does the finale of this movie make me want to make a 3rd person pvp game like bid for power from a million years ago, but add in silly amounts of punching people through buildings and collateral damage.
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2013/07/02 18:36:25
Subject: [SPOILERS] Man of Steel discussion Thread
I don't think they tried to tie this movie to the comic universe at all, but DC is known for alternate Universes and on several occasions tried to rid themselves of them only to immediately go back to them. Marvel does it a little, but nowhere near as bad (616, Ultimate).
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2013/07/02 18:41:38
Subject: [SPOILERS] Man of Steel discussion Thread
NecronLord3 wrote: Thee are dozens of alternate universes in DC but in current cannon, the DNA of Kryptonians and Humans is incompatible.
They've already established this in the "New 52"?
Man, they move fast!
I missed that. Not saying that it hasn't been established, but I don't remember seeing it in Action Comics or Superman in the New 52. Was it in Supergirl or Superboy?
Of course, the point remains that the movie is in fact a sort of alternate universe to the comics anyway.
Edit: Back on topic, I forgot to mention that the shot in the movie of Krypton's destroyed moon was a nice nod to the old comics. I believe Jax-Ur was the one who wrecked it, although he doesn't appear to be the guilty party in Man of Steel.
This is exactly why I can't understand, much less get into anything DC, everything is friggen time travel or extra dimensions or some BS I watched a cartoon movie with my sisters kid while babysitting him, it was alternate reality superman being a mob boss or something and alt. reality batman trying to blow up the world
Then the next movie was all time travel BS Then the video game comes out, its alt. reality superman being evil
I can deal with this, its stupid, but I can deal with it, I treat it like a TNG episode where everything is all weird "lol what if everyone was a pirate! but still sort of the regular characters too!" its fairly typical bad writing.
What gets me isn't just bad writing, its that they try and tie everything together, its just terrible.
Also is it just me or does the finale of this movie make me want to make a 3rd person pvp game like bid for power from a million years ago, but add in silly amounts of punching people through buildings and collateral damage.
*shrug* Marvel has its own multiverse, Ultimates, clone sagas, whatever was going on with Age of Ultron, etc. It doesn't fully reboot the universe like DC periodically does, but then that leaves decades of continuity hopelessly tangled and confusing in spots. The X-books are a prime example. Marvel may go about its business differently than DC, but they end up in roughly the same place, which is why you shouldn't sweat precise continuity much for characters that have been around for decades.
I don't really know what you mean about the ending. To me, it was more or less what you'd expect given 30 years of pent-up demand for a knockdown, drag-out brawl involving Superman that doesn't look like actors gliding around on wires.
*shrug* Marvel has its own multiverse, Ultimates, clone sagas, whatever was going on with Age of Ultron, etc. It doesn't fully reboot the universe like DC periodically does, but then that leaves decades of continuity hopelessly tangled and confusing in spots. The X-books are a prime example. Marvel may go about its business differently than DC, but they end up in roughly the same place.
Maybe its just that every piece of media that I've seen in the last few years from them either directly involves dimensional travel or time travel, or its brought up in every single conversation ive seen about the subject.
Where every Marvel subject is "Oh its iron man, his thing is he's a rich douche with power armor" or "oh, its thor, he's, well, thor"
I'm sure if you nitpick the same nonsense is there, just that DC is laser-accurate zero'd in on it. I know by comparison hulk was different colors, is sometimes angry, sometimes not, sometimes a complicated character, sometimes a drooling idiot, I dont know dude.
I've actually read some of the ultimates, and its fun for the most part, like I said, the issue isn't having these things exist as spinoffs or whatever, its trying to tie everything together in this one big mess.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/02 18:58:23
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2013/07/02 19:09:01
Subject: Re:[SPOILERS] Man of Steel discussion Thread
reds8n wrote: and yet we know Superman has descendants.
Maybe, like in All Star Superman someone clever .. like Luthor .. .. figures out how to make them compatible.
Plus.. there's the whole magic angle too.
Human DNA and Kryptonian DNA are incompatible. Kal's descendants sometimes originate between himself and Wonderwoman. Also his DNA is in the clone from RoS. The Superman Prime was,described as giving a measure of his godlike power to decendents that proved themselves to fight for justice. It's a pothole in MoS that Jor-el,would send Kal to earth to ensure the blood line of all kryptonians when he can't procreate with the indigenous species. Though I guess Diana is also indeginous of earth.
NecronLord3 wrote: It's a pothole in MoS that Jor-el,would send Kal to earth to ensure the blood line of all kryptonians when he can't procreate with the indigenous species.
It is only a plot hole if you confuse the comics for the movie. No where in the film does it say he can't procreate with humans, and even if it were true, it is never stated the only way for him to ensure the survival of all Kryptonians is through procreation with humans.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2013/07/02 19:36:05
Subject: Re:[SPOILERS] Man of Steel discussion Thread
NecronLord3 wrote: It's a pothole in MoS that Jor-el,would send Kal to earth to ensure the blood line of all kryptonians when he can't procreate with the indigenous species.
It is only a plot hole if you confuse the comics for the movie. No where in the film does it say he can't procreate with humans, and even if it were true, it is never stated the only way for him to ensure the survival of all Kryptonians is through procreation with humans.
I thought that was the point of the Scout ship Matrix tank thingy, that they could suck that out and restart the Krypton species. Weren't they originally looking for the codex as a data device of some sort (which looked like a skull to me) and only found out later it was impregnated in supersuit.
Might be interesting in that, er couldn't they have avoided all that by saying "yo Jor El, broman we need a cheek swab yo so we can restart the species.
What, no we'll boogy somewhere else to restart Krypton II. Had enough of the talking monkeys? Come with us. No, ok then later bro we're outta here."
Movie ends.
They actually didn't need ANY of the movie now that I think about it.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2013/07/02 20:11:53
Subject: [SPOILERS] Man of Steel discussion Thread
The main problem was, that Zod was wanting to do a bit of DNA spring cleaning out of the codex.
Jor-el wanted to keep the whole diversity thing going, so he sent the codex off with Supes (I apparently got told off for calling him Supes the other day).
2013/07/02 20:35:07
Subject: Re:[SPOILERS] Man of Steel discussion Thread
NecronLord3 wrote: It's a pothole in MoS that Jor-el,would send Kal to earth to ensure the blood line of all kryptonians when he can't procreate with the indigenous species.
It is only a plot hole if you confuse the comics for the movie. No where in the film does it say he can't procreate with humans, and even if it were true, it is never stated the only way for him to ensure the survival of all Kryptonians is through procreation with humans.
I thought that was the point of the Scout ship Matrix tank thingy, that they could suck that out and restart the Krypton species. Weren't they originally looking for the codex as a data device of some sort (which looked like a skull to me) and only found out later it was impregnated in supersuit.
The movie *clearly* implies that the birthing matrix doesn't require or involve copulation, especially any copulation having to do with Clark. Remember Zod asking if Clark needs to be alive for the DNA to be extracted? Again, it's amazing what holes develop when you invent things and selectively take things from the comics and act like they have a bearing on the movie.
And even though it has no bearing on the movie, I'd still like a citation for where it's been established in the New 52 that Kryptonian DNA is incompatible with human DNA.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/02 20:35:26
I guess the Krypton gang didn't think they could do it the old fashioned either.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2013/07/02 20:58:07
Subject: [SPOILERS] Man of Steel discussion Thread
Frazzled wrote: I guess the Krypton gang didn't think they could do it the old fashioned either.
Don't you remember when Jor-El told Zod that he had a child the old fashioned way Zod freaked out and called him a heretic?
Well clearly he hadn't taken a good look at his second in command.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2013/07/02 22:09:36
Subject: [SPOILERS] Man of Steel discussion Thread
kronk wrote: I liked the recent Star Trek 2 better than Man of Steel.
There were some good moments, and some fine acting, but I felt the movie was OK at best.
Spoiler:
Good: The American Robin Hood's influence on Superman.
The show succeeded in making me empathetic, but not sympathetic, with General Zod. I actually liked this character.
Bad: It looked like the Krypton chapter of the script was written my George Lucas, ala Star Wars prequels. It just had that "WTF?" feel to it. Took me out of the movie, actually.
60 minutes of tearing down 1 building after another. I get it. These guys are bad asses. Do I really need to see 400 buildings get torn down, one by one?
WTF? I thought the sun's radiation gave superman his power, not the air. When he goes on the ship, they explain that the Krypton air made him weak. Also, General Zod and hot alien fighter chick didn't get x-ray vision until they took off their masks, but he had super strength from the get go? I don't get it. Big hole there some where.
Also, they destroyed Zod's ship by getting another one close to it that had a warp engine or whatever they call it. 1. Wouldn't everyone in an advanced space-traveling civilization know not to get two of these ships near one another, ala Space Travel 101: gak Not to Do. 2. Wouldn't they have safe guards like, I don't know, a sensor that says "Hey feth-heads, there's a ship within 10 Krypton miles, veer left" and known there was a baby carrier ship with a warp engine approaching? 3. Why the feth would you not have 20-30 of your advanced fighters protecting your world engine? I dunno. I'm not a military guy, I guess.
Awesome: Supes punching Zod in mid air. That scene was freaking cool. Also, "I was bred to be a soldier. Where did you learn to fight? On a farm?" That was pretty funny.
In contrast I thought ST was warmed over ass and loved Superman #24 or whatever this is. Its the first movie I've seen in a theater this year that I really liked.
*Loved Zod, but love that actor. He's epic in Boardwalk Empire. I liked the Zod background. He's not a bad guy. He's trying to save his race in Mongol style.
*Loved the female second in command. Good writing for her.
*Liked the backstory flashbacks. It kept the film pacing excellent.
*Lois Lane - excellent.
*I liked the backstory of an old Kryptonian empire. Now that would be a nice prequel.
*I joked with the wife that this wasn't Superman. This was "flying, punchy Jesus"
Automatically Appended Next Post:
They didn't need to show that if it was meant to show a starvation death. Even Zod seems to be a little unnerved by it. So I think it's supposed to suggest that something nasty is out there. Brainiac? Tyranids?
Superman vs. Nid Biotitans. YES.
Fraz liked Superman and disliked Captain America and, I believe, Avengers? Well, time to face it. Fraz has gone senile people. Time to let him sit on his porch with his puppies.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
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2013/07/03 03:12:32
Subject: [SPOILERS] Man of Steel discussion Thread
NecronLord3 wrote: No they're huge. And it has everything to do with whether it good or not.
Nitpicking rarely has determined the overall quality for a film or it's entertainment value, and most of the time what people call plotholes are not plotholes at all. A plothole requires an internal inconsistency within the diegesis of the film, of which there isn't anything blatant in the film that does that.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2013/07/03 03:49:32
Subject: [SPOILERS] Man of Steel discussion Thread
NecronLord3 wrote: No they're huge. And it has everything to do with whether it good or not.
Nitpicking rarely has determined the overall quality for a film or it's entertainment value, and most of the time what people call plotholes are not plotholes at all. A plothole requires an internal inconsistency within the diegesis of the film, of which there isn't anything blatant in the film that does that.
Here's a good list of just some of the plot holes in this movie.
