Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty

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**Rented Tritium**

whembly wrote:
Rented Tritium wrote:
Lesser included charges are not some crazy new thing, guys.

But, are they usually tacked on after the prosecution/defense rested?

They're not tacked on at all. When you charge for any crime, the lesser charges are AUTOMATICALLY assumed as a matter of course. Nobody has to do anything.

The judge just has the ability to instruct the jury about it.

Now, some of the charges mentioned are a bit of a stretch as lesser includeds, so the prosecution is going to have to really make a case that in this case they share enough in common with murder 2 to count. This should not be easy. Some of them are reaaaally a stretch.

**Frazzled**

Murder III is not a lesser included. As noted, child abuses has to be proven. Thats a different crime. She charges the jury with that and thats a winnable appeal.

**Alfndrate**

Doesn't child abuse have to consist of an "over-time" sort of thing?

Though according to Florida, injury from a lethal weapon to a child falls under child abuse

**Monster Rain**

It just seems like a desperation move to me; they are throwing a bunch of charges against the wall and seeing what sticks.

Not exactly behavior that's comforting to see a prosecutor and judge engaging in, however.

**Frazzled**

3rd degree denied. Manslaughter included.

Prosecutors' request for a third-degree murder option was denied.

George Zimmerman has been on trial for second-degree murder, but jurors can now consider the lesser charge of manslaughter.

SANFORD, Fla. — A judge said Thursday that jurors in the George Zimmerman case can consider the lesser charge of manslaughter, but she won't allow them to consider third-degree murder.

http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/could-trayvon-martins-death-be-considered-child-abuse?ocid=ansnews11

**Hordini**

According to CNN's breaking news headline, it looks like the Murder III charge is out.

Edit: Frazz beat me to it!

**Dreadclaw69**

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-murder-trial-judge-denies-defense-request-jury-153922003.html

SANFORD, Florida (Reuters) - The judge presiding over the murder trial of George Zimmerman denied a defense request on Thursday that jurors be instructed the neighborhood watch volunteer did nothing illegal in deciding to follow Trayvon Martin, before the encounter in which he shot and killed the unarmed black teenager.

"I am not giving that instruction," Seminole County Judge Debra Nelson told Zimmerman defense lawyer Don West, who said no Florida law makes it illegal to follow somebody and that the proposed jury instruction was key to Zimmerman's self-defense case.

Nelson ruled after West failed to cite any law spelling out the legality of following someone by car or on foot. Evidence at Zimmerman's trial has shown it was his pursuit of Martin, with a concealed semiautomatic handgun, that set in motion the event that led to Martin's death.

Has the judge refused to discharge her duty in refusing to clarify the law for the jury?

**Monster Rain**

How can you not instruct the jury on the legality of a key point in the case?

**Rented Tritium**

Frazzled wrote:
Murder III is not a lesser included. As noted, child abuses has to be proven. Thats a different crime. She charges the jury with that and thats a winnable appeal.

There's no "list" technically. There are some like manslaughter that are sure bets because they exist entirely inside the requirements for the regular charge, but if the prosecution makes the case that the charge requirements combined with events that the defense has not contested qualify for something else, then it can count.

In this case, Murder III is too much of a stretch and it looks like it was rightfully denied, but there still isn't an official list that a charge either is on or isn't on.

For instance, vehicular homicide is a valid lesser included for murder II, even though murder II doesn't require a car. It just means that if you have murder II and the defense has not contested the fact that a car was present, then you can include vehicular.

**Dreadclaw69**

Monster Rain wrote:
How can you not instruct the jury on the legality of a key point in the case?

That is a question that I would love to have answered. One of the roles of a judge is to provide clarification of the law for the jury.

**Hulksmash**

Wow, this gets better and better.....

**KalashnikovMarine**

Doing their damndest ti put Z down for... hell just about anything

**Hulksmash**

I'm sure the gunshot at that time of night could be considered disturbing the peace right?

**Jihadin**

Don't forget the screaming....Noise Pollation(sp) Violation

**Dreadclaw69**

Maybe something about depositing hazardous/medical waste by leaving his and Trayvon's blood on the ground also.

**LordofHats**

Yeah. Just heard about this and damn. Prosecution just went from questionable conduct to outlandish.

**Frazzled**

Indeed.

**Rented Tritium**

They're not supposed to be their own referee, that's the judge's job. They're going to ask for everything they can ask for, that's their job.

I don't want attys on EITHER side to pull their punches. The judge decides what's too far.

**Jihadin**

Judge I think wants to throttle both prosecution and defense.....especially after the "doll" making its entrance into court room

**Alfndrate**

The doll was more entertaining than the lawyer throttling it.

**LordofHats**

Rented Tritium wrote:
They're not supposed to be their own referee, that's the judge's job. They're going to ask for everything they can ask for, that's their job.

I don't want attys on EITHER side to pull their punches. The judge decides what's too far.

I can get behind that, but there is going too far.

**CptJake**

If a state prosecutor has to make stuff up (and this one is doing just that in my opinion) then the system is hosed. The state should not be able do that against a citizen and have it be considered good or normal. At what point did it become okay for the gov't to lie in order to take away a citizen's freedom?

Defense attorneys, I expect them to lie to help their clients, but the government should NOT be doing that. They either have a case, or they do not.

**Dreadclaw69**

CptJake wrote:
If a state prosecutor has to make stuff up (and this one is doing just that in my opinion) then the system is hosed. The state should not be able do that against a citizen and have it be considered good or normal. At what point did it become okay for the gov't to lie in order to take away a citizens freedom?

Defense attorneys, I expect them to lie to help their clients, but the government should NOT be doing that.

A state prosecutor should not lie about the law and say that self defense is an indication of malicious intent.
The judge should not refuse to clarify whether the mere act of following someone is lawful or not

**Frazzled**

Don't sweat it, the defense was pushing. The defense can say in the closing arguments six ways to sunday that Z following Martin was lawful.

**whembly**

Just saw the Prosecution's Summary...

My god that was a distasteful, race-baiting speech.... also urged jurors to just "use common sense," rather than close reading of the law and close examination of the facts, to find their verdict.

**rubiksnoob**

This trial has devolved from slightly questionable to downright mob-appeasement.

**d-usa**

The main screw-up from the prosecution (IMO) was not filing Manslaughter charges instead of murder charges to begin with.

**SlaveToDorkness**

Head slaps...ALL AROUND!

**KalashnikovMarine**

Just disgusting.

**Jihadin**

Now that the Juror's have the Manslaughter option presented for a cop out conviction.....