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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 22:04:35
Subject: Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Fighter Pilot
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djones520 wrote:And again, assumptions made on no evidence, WHILE wishing harm on those who'd rather follow the paper trail instead of blindly call for the lynch mob.
I regret nothing.
Zimmerman will regret something if he has a conscience.
ALEC and proponents of laws as flawed as SYG set the ball in motion. The law of unintended consequences is a bitch... too bad it isn't more so for the people who allowed the law to pass. The legislators made assumptions about what situations would be impacted by SYG, and harm has occurred.
SYG was not intended to allow a situation like this, yet here we are. The connection has been made in the mind of the public, and those that see it are disgusted.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 22:05:55
Subject: Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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cincydooley wrote:
Were talking about being profiled. Not being treated as a criminal. Zimmerman followed him. That's it. Regardless of how much bs you think it is, it's easy to say that when you live in a homogenous country. Profiling happens anywhere people are different. Perhaps all the bars in the urban areas Down here should start allowing hats and bandanas again despite their clear and present connections with gang affiliation in the name of being more PC?
Yes, it happens, but it shouldn't. Of course it is worst when it is done by actual authorities. The likelihood of you being stopped by police shouldn't be based on your skin colour.
As for Finland being homogenous country, that's not quite true any more. For example, of the three families that live in the same building as me only one is ethnically Finnish. Others are Russian and Vietnamese.
I'm sorry, but you're wrong. You can absolutely be responsible without it being required. Texting while driving isn't illegal in many places in the United States, so by your metric text away while you drive. Just because it isn't regulated or tested doesn't mean it is responsible. I use my firearms regularly. I know how to shoot safely. I've shown my wife how to properly use and maintain our firearms. People that ACTIVEY use their firearms are typically very responsible.
It is quite possible that you're actually responsible, you certainly can be without any official courses, but that's not what I meant. This guy thinks he is a responsible gun owner too. There should be a mechanic to establish which people are actually responsible enough to own a gun before they shoot someone.
Why should you have to flee?
Because indignity of having to flee is a much lesser evil than someone being killed, even though they might be a thug. Not to mention that there is a huge possibility of people misjudging the situation and thinking that they're in danger when they actually aren't.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 22:06:21
Subject: Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Hallowed Canoness
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Crimson wrote:
Wait what? So warning shot in a threatening situation is not legal but shooting at people is? (Yes,I know in this specific case she shouldn't have gone back to the house anyway.)
As has been explained in detail unless you are in fear of your life pulling a trigger on a weapon (in a defensive situation) is absolutely a no go, I think I saw something that said her bullets from the warning shots passed through a wall into a room with small children in it, no one was hurt but feth...
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I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 22:10:26
Subject: Re:Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The pundits have gone into overdrive to spin this verdict into something it is not. Zimmerman's acquittal is not an endorsement of his actions. It is not a demonization of Trayvon Martin. It is not a vindication of Stand Your Ground (or Concealed Carry) laws, and it is not a call for open season on minorities. It is simply a verdict that stating that the six jurors were unable to find Zimmerman guilty of manslaughter or second degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt.
The various (mostly fringe lunatics) stating that the prosecution threw the case because they are racist, or that the 6 jurors found GZ not guilty because Martin was black are truly despicable though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 22:10:58
Subject: Re:Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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It is quite possible that you're actually responsible, you certainly can be without any official courses, but that's not what I meant. This guy thinks he is a responsible gun owner too. There should be a mechanic to establish which people are actually responsible enough to own a gun before they shoot someone.
Crimson your behind the power curve. We already went over this guy like two pages back
Pray tell you don't consider every weapon owner can be outright killers. Exclude the ones that's been in combat
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 22:12:48
Subject: Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Scott wrote: djones520 wrote:And again, assumptions made on no evidence, WHILE wishing harm on those who'd rather follow the paper trail instead of blindly call for the lynch mob.
I regret nothing.
Zimmerman will regret something if he has a conscience.
ALEC and proponents of laws as flawed as SYG set the ball in motion. The law of unintended consequences is a bitch... too bad it isn't more so for the people who allowed the law to pass. The legislators made assumptions about what situations would be impacted by SYG, and harm has occurred.
SYG was not intended to allow a situation like this, yet here we are. The connection has been made in the mind of the public, and those that see it are disgusted.
SYG was not invoked in this case. The defense used a standard self defense clause that is present in all 50 states and in most civilized countries in the world.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 22:21:16
Subject: Re:Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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Jihadin wrote:
Pray tell you don't consider every weapon owner can be outright killers. Exclude the ones that's been in combat 
No, but you don't even need to be utter reckless lunatic like that guy to be a danger. People who do not regularly practice with guns are danger to themselves and others if entrusted with a weapon, and even familiarity with weapons do not guarantee that the person is right in their head. And god forbid if some 'regular citizens' decide to 'prevent crime' in some dangerous situation. They're probably just as likely to shoot some random bystander that they're to shoot the real criminal.
I'm not saying that there aren't responsible gun owners, there are. But assumption that all or even most gun owners are responsible is ludicrous.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 22:22:57
Subject: Re:Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Crimson wrote: Jihadin wrote:
Pray tell you don't consider every weapon owner can be outright killers. Exclude the ones that's been in combat 
No, but you don't even need to be utter reckless lunatic like that guy to be a danger. People who do not regularly practice with guns are danger to themselves and others if entrusted with a weapon, and even familiarity with weapons do not guarantee that the person is right in their head. And god forbid if some 'regular citizens' decide to 'prevent crime' in some dangerous situation. They're probably just as likely to shoot some random bystander that they're to shoot the real criminal.
I'm not saying that there aren't responsible gun owners, there are. But assumption that all or even most gun owners are responsible is ludicrous.
Is not assumption that all or even most gun owners are IRresponsible equally ludicrous though?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 22:23:24
Subject: Re:Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Fixture of Dakka
CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence
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776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if: (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or (2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013. That is the Florida self defense statute which could have applied, HOWEVER, to invoke SYG successfully is to avoid prosecution: 776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.— (1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant. So... SYG really was not what this trial was about, at all. The case went to trial. The SYG portion of the statute would not apply anyway, one cannot retreat when one is flat on his back being pummeled. If you cannot retreat, a law mandating retreat when possible or removing that mandate makes no difference. Even if Florida was not a SYG state, Zimmerman's defense attorneys would have used the strategy they did, and the prosecution would have been stuck with the same lack of evidence to prove Murder 2 that they were stuck with. Note, if it was a successful SYG invocation, Martin's family could bring a civil suit (which it appears they are going to do). Bottom line, duty to retreat or no duty to retreat, Zimmerman's claim was going to be self defense and the prosecution did not have the evidence to prove murder.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/15 22:28:04
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 22:26:53
Subject: Re:Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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CptJake wrote:776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
That is the Florida self defense statute which could have applied, HOWEVER, to invoke SYG successfully is to avoid prosecution:
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
So... SYG really was not what this trial was about, at all. The case went to trial. The SYG portion of the statute would not apply anyway, one cannot retreat when one is flat on his back being pummeled. If you cannot retreat, a law mandating retreat when possible or removing that mandate makes no difference. Even if Florida was not a SYG state, Zimmerman's defense attorneys would have used the strategy they did, and the prosecution would have been stuck with the same lack of evidence to prove Murder 2 that they were stuck with.
Bottom line, duty to retreat or no duty to retreat, Zimmerman's claim was going to be self defense and the prosecution did not have the evidence to prove murder.
Thanks Captain. have an exalt.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 22:30:52
Subject: Re:Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Whats bad...its there in Black and white....but people will not accept it
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 22:41:56
Subject: Re:Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator
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The Law is all.
If the police cannot get enough of a 24/7 presence on the ground of a neighboured with crime trouble and break ins...then the citizenship will need to pick up the mantle or face increasing number of crime and a blatant disregard for the Law. The blood of guilty lives lost is the cost to enforcing the Law to protect the Innocent from the Guilty.
This case definetely provides a sound argument for the delivery of more powers to the police and an up scaling of their equipment to at least military levels to provide a better response time.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/15 22:45:30
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 22:48:17
Subject: Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It's been really interesting watching this thread, the Florida bashing (only a few comments made) is pretty sad really, I have quite a few views on this case being from here but don't dare even get involved.
I'm glad a few of you guys are knowledgable of the situation.
All ill say is I could have not really cared less either way when the case started, but as it went on it was pretty clear it should have never gone to trial and Zimmerman being found not guilty was the right call in my opinion.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 22:53:10
Subject: Re:Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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military levels to provide a better response time.
Thanks for the chuckle. Made me remember the time I had my driver drive through the front door to get some insurgents in a MRAP
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 22:54:41
Subject: Re:Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Fixture of Dakka
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whembly wrote:I'm just sick of all this... this was nothing more than to force fit a narrative, which was all about keeping black voters — and white-guilt liberal voters — in the fold for 2012 and 2014.
Where's the national out rage for this?
How about the enormous black on black crimes in Chicago?
Can we move on?
Need directions to Frazzled's house? Beer and Queso solves all world's problems... just don't mind the old armed man on the yard.
You are clearly a racist, sir, talking of such things!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 23:04:52
Subject: Re:Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Jihadin wrote: military levels to provide a better response time.
Thanks for the chuckle. Made me remember the time I had my driver drive through the front door to get some insurgents in a MRAP
Please tell me he was yelling OOOYEAAH while doing so.
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Unit1126PLL wrote: Scott-S6 wrote:And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.
Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 23:23:23
Subject: Re:Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Actually we both were laughing our butts off. Afterwards we had a slight chewing out due to the fact we jammed the CROW turret mechanism. Good thing we captured those two. Also wanted to point out we have a 3rd amendment issue about the status of LEO. Would they fall under "soldier" profile or not. I'm banking SCOTUS to make that clarification
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 23:35:31
Subject: Re:Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Fixture of Dakka
CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence
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Jihadin wrote: military levels to provide a better response time.
Thanks for the chuckle. Made me remember the time I had my driver drive through the front door to get some insurgents in a MRAP
What were insurgents doing in an MRAP?
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Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 23:44:03
Subject: Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Crimson wrote: As for Finland being homogenous country, that's not quite true any more. For example, of the three families that live in the same building as me only one is ethnically Finnish. Others are Russian and Vietnamese. White. White. Asian. Diverse nationalities, to be sure, though. I'm sorry, I found this statement hilarious. Carry on, then...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/15 23:44:43
DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 23:48:22
Subject: Re:Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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What were insurgents doing in an MRAP?
 another one of those happy feely moments hit me.....
If I had Vietnamese next door I would freaking die.....unless they adopt me....never...never turn down viet/thai dishes...24/7
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 23:55:11
Subject: Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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kronk wrote: Crimson wrote:
As for Finland being homogenous country, that's not quite true any more. For example, of the three families that live in the same building as me only one is ethnically Finnish. Others are Russian and Vietnamese.
White. White. Asian. Diverse nationalities, to be sure, though.
I'm sorry, I found this statement hilarious.
Carry on, then...
That was one building. Somalis live in the next building...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/15 23:58:35
Subject: Re:Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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CptJake wrote:
Note, if it was a successful SYG invocation, Martin's family could bring a civil suit (which it appears they are going to do).
My guess, and opinion is that GZ's defense team felt it more reasonable to go to trial, which, IMO will remove any and all ground for a civil suit to be stood on. Obviously, I don't think a civil suit would be thrown out, I just highly doubt that with the outcome of the trial, that the Martin family will get a penny out of GZ... Now, GZ getting money from NBC on the other hand
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/16 00:01:03
Subject: Re:Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I'm actually looking forward to GZ to take NBC to task. I'm sure a few on here also looking forward to it.
edit
Granted there are some members of the media I would to stick in the middle of 41A
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/16 00:01:36
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/16 00:04:03
Subject: Re:Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Jihadin wrote:I'm actually looking forward to GZ to take NBC to task. I'm sure a few on here also looking forward to it.
edit
Granted there are some members of the media I would to stick in the middle of 41A
That's a horrible wish man... I have to drive 41A... twice a day!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/16 00:11:57
Subject: Re:Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Try it before they did all the road construction.....where the main gate was a target for drive by's I was lucky and had Gate 6. Campbell Army Airfield
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/16 01:14:12
Subject: Re:Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Decent post by William Saletan on Slate:
You Are Not Trayvon Martin
His death wasn’t about race, guns, or your pet issue. It was about misjudgment and overreaction—exactly what we’re doing now to the verdict.
Trayvon Martin is dead, George Zimmerman has been acquitted, and millions of people are outraged. Some politicians are demanding a second prosecution of Zimmerman, this time for hate crimes. Others are blaming the tragedy on “Stand Your Ground” laws, which they insist must be repealed. Many who saw the case as proof of racism in the criminal justice system see the verdict as further confirmation. Everywhere you look, people feel vindicated in their bitter assumptions. They want action.
But that’s how Martin ended up dead. It’s how Zimmerman ended up with a bulletproof vest he might have to wear for the rest of his life. It’s how activists and the media embarrassed themselves with bogus reports. The problem at the core of this case wasn’t race or guns. The problem was assumption, misperception, and overreaction. And that cycle hasn’t ended with the verdict. It has escalated.
I almost joined the frenzy. Yesterday I was going to write that Zimmerman pursued Martin against police instructions and illustrated the perils of racial profiling. But I hadn’t followed the case in detail. So I sat down and watched the closing arguments: nearly seven hours of video in which the prosecution and defense went point by point through the evidence as it had been hashed out at the trial. Based on what I learned from the videos, I did some further reading.
It turned out I had been wrong about many things. The initial portrait of Zimmerman as a racist wasn’t just exaggerated. It was completely unsubstantiated. It’s a case study in how the same kind of bias that causes racism can cause unwarranted allegations of racism. Some of the people Zimmerman had reported as suspicious were black men, so he was a racist. Members of his family seemed racist, so he was a racist. Everybody knew he was a racist, so his recorded words were misheard as racial slurs, proving again that he was a racist.
The 911 dispatcher who spoke to Zimmerman on the fatal night didn’t tell him to stay in his car. Zimmerman said he was following a suspicious person, and the dispatcher told him, "We don't need you do to that." Chief prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda conceded in his closing argument that these words were ambiguous. De la Rionda also acknowledged, based on witness and forensic evidence that both men “were scraping and rolling and fighting out there.” He pointed out that the wounds, blood evidence, and DNA didn’t match Zimmerman’s story of being thoroughly restrained and pummeled throughout the fight. But the evidence didn’t fit the portrait of Martin as a sweet-tempered child, either. And the notion that Zimmerman hunted down Martin to accost him made no sense. Zimmerman knew the police were on the way. They arrived only a minute or so after the gunshot. The fight happened in a public area surrounded by townhouses at close range. It was hardly the place or time to start shooting.
That doesn’t make Zimmerman a hero. It just makes him a reckless fool instead of a murderer. In a post-verdict press conference, his lawyer, Mark O’Mara, claimed that “the evidence supported that George Zimmerman did nothing wrong,” that “the jury decided that he acted properly in self-defense,” and that Zimmerman “was never guilty of anything except protecting himself in self-defense. I’m glad that the jury saw it that way.” That’s complete BS. The only thing the jury decided was that there was reasonable doubt as to whether Zimmerman had committed second-degree murder or manslaughter.
Zimmerman is guilty, morally if not legally, of precipitating the confrontation that led to Martin’s death. He did many things wrong. Mistake No. 1 was inferring that Martin was a burglar. In his 911 call, Zimmerman cited Martin’s behavior. “It’s raining, and he’s just walking around” looking at houses, Zimmerman said. He warned the dispatcher, “He’s got his hand in his waistband.” He described Martin’s race and clothing only after the dispatcher asked about them. Whatever its basis, the inference was false.
Mistake No. 2 was pursuing Martin on foot. Zimmerman had already done what the neighborhood watch rules advised: He had called the police. They would have arrived, questioned Martin, and ascertained that he was innocent. Instead, Zimmerman, packing a concealed firearm, got out and started walking after Martin. Zimmerman’s initial story, that he was trying to check the name of the street, was so laughable that his attorneys abandoned it. He was afraid Martin would get away. So he followed Martin, hoping to update the cops.
Mistake No. 3 was Zimmerman’s utter failure to imagine how his behavior looked to Martin. You’re a black kid walking home from a convenience store with Skittles and a fruit drink. Some dude in a car is watching and trailing you. God knows what he wants. You run away. He gets out of the car and follows you. What are you supposed to do? In Zimmerman’s initial interrogation, the police expressed surprise that he hadn’t identified himself to Martin as a neighborhood watch volunteer.
They suggested that Martin might have been alarmed when Zimmerman reached for an object that Zimmerman, but not Martin, knew was a phone. Zimmerman seemed baffled. He was so convinced of Martin’s criminal intent that he hadn’t considered how Martin, if he were innocent, would perceive his stalker.
Martin, meanwhile, was profiling Zimmerman. On his phone, he told a friend he was being followed by a “creepy-ass cracker.” The friend—who later testified that this phrase meant pervert—advised Martin, “You better run.” She reported, as Zimmerman did, that Martin challenged Zimmerman, demanding to know why he was being hassled. If Zimmerman’s phobic misreading of Martin was the first wrong turn that led to their fatal struggle, Martin’s phobic misreading of Zimmerman may have been the second.
In court, evidence and scrutiny have exposed these difficult, complicated truths. But outside the court, ideologues are ignoring them. They’re oversimplifying a tragedy that was caused by oversimplification. Martin has become Emmett Till. New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg is using the verdict to attack Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, which wasn’t invoked in this case. The grievance industrial complex is pushing the Department of Justice to prosecute Zimmerman for bias-motivated killing, based on evidence that didn’t even support a conviction for unpremeditated killing. Zimmerman’s lawyers have teamed up with members of the Congressional Black Caucus, inadvertently, to promote the false message that Zimmerman’s acquittal means our society thinks everything he did was OK.
It wasn’t OK. It was stupid and dangerous. It led to the unnecessary death of an innocent young man. It happened because two people—their minds clouded by stereotypes that went well beyond race—assumed the worst about one another and acted in haste. If you want to prevent the next Trayvon Martin tragedy, learn from their mistakes. Don’t paint the world in black and white. Don’t declare the whole justice system racist, or blame every gun death on guns, or confuse acquittal with vindication. And the next time you see somebody who looks like a punk or a pervert, hold your fire.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/16 01:22:05
Subject: Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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Crimson wrote: kronk wrote: Crimson wrote:
As for Finland being homogenous country, that's not quite true any more. For example, of the three families that live in the same building as me only one is ethnically Finnish. Others are Russian and Vietnamese.
White. White. Asian. Diverse nationalities, to be sure, though.
I'm sorry, I found this statement hilarious.
Carry on, then...
That was one building. Somalis live in the next building...
Dude, please. There are more minorities in any medium sized American city than in your entire country.
Please don't pretend you have any idea what you're talking about when it comes to racial diversity, especially when compared to the United States.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/16 01:27:30
Subject: Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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cincydooley wrote: Crimson wrote: kronk wrote: Crimson wrote:
As for Finland being homogenous country, that's not quite true any more. For example, of the three families that live in the same building as me only one is ethnically Finnish. Others are Russian and Vietnamese.
White. White. Asian. Diverse nationalities, to be sure, though.
I'm sorry, I found this statement hilarious.
Carry on, then...
That was one building. Somalis live in the next building...
Dude, please. There are more minorities in any medium sized American city than in your entire country.
Please don't pretend you have any idea what you're talking about when it comes to racial diversity, especially when compared to the United States.
Europe and USA are pretty much equal there, so this pissing match can really stop.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/16 01:27:47
Subject: Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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cincydooley wrote: Crimson wrote: kronk wrote: Crimson wrote:
As for Finland being homogenous country, that's not quite true any more. For example, of the three families that live in the same building as me only one is ethnically Finnish. Others are Russian and Vietnamese.
White. White. Asian. Diverse nationalities, to be sure, though.
I'm sorry, I found this statement hilarious.
Carry on, then...
That was one building. Somalis live in the next building...
Dude, please. There are more minorities in any medium sized American city than in your entire country.
Please don't pretend you have any idea what you're talking about when it comes to racial diversity, especially when compared to the United States.
Finland, at least according to Wikipedia, has one of the lowest racial diversities in Europe.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/16 01:28:28
Subject: Trayvon Martin case: All female jury picked---Verdict Not Guilty
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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Whembly, I was with that article until the last line, which sort of alludes to Zimmerman shooting Martin because of how he looked, which wasn't the case at al.
He shot him because he was getting his head beat against the ground.
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