Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

And they commit a disproportionate amount of the crime and and represent a disproportionate amount of the incarcerated population.

And I googled levar burton racial profiling since you mentioned it. That kind of complex is the exact kind of reverse racism that this country tolerates. Get pulled over? Be respectful. It's that fething simple. His "teaching his boys to put their hands on the steering wheel" isnt a good lesson because they're black. It's a good lesson for anyone that gets pulled over.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And in regards to this case, it has no bearing. The FBI and the jury of the case found that Zimmermans following of Martin had nothing to with Martins race, but rather the fact that he had his hoodie up and was wandering the neighborhood scoping out houses.

 Crimson wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

What are you talking about?

Racial profiling. How black people, even ones of high social status, get disproportionally often stopped by police, for example.

Let me tell you about Reindeer herding, because I read about it and saw a couple of shows. As a result, I know all there is to know and there's no way someone who lives in Finland 24/7 could have anything beyond the knowledge I picked up.

Those cultures are many way almost as different as they can be. Certainly much more different than American white and black cultures are from each other

.

KK I'm tracking. I agree cultures are different if one individual was pulled out from an area and planted to another area he/she is not use to. Black and white in the US though are similar but follow two paths that are the same almost....start at teenage years. Going to be using the term "both individuals to cover down on Caucasian and African Americans

Both individuals are going to develop "clicks" of friends. Maintain the social bond through out high schools.
Both individuals are about to develop relationship. Chances of a mix relationship is good.
Both individuals are going to active in sports. Looking at Basketball and football
Both individuals going to develop taste of music. One rap one rock. They're going to stick with a certain genre. Later on in life they will broaden their taste.
Both individuals will fight. Maybe each other maybe not. Highly doubt it'll be over race. Our younger generation have not been exposed to 70-80's stigma. D-USA is an example. I do believe his wife an African American. Back in that time it was a taboo.
Both individuals going to get PoV's. I blame Fast and Furious on this one. Every kid it seems want a "Fast and Furious" vehicle
Both individuals are going to smoke dope once. So probably turn into a smoker and dealer or both will. Its quick cash that's luring them
Both individual are going to wear different set of clothes due to cultural difference or maybe the same.

Well that's a good baseline I think. The problem is both individuals are not being influence by the same family.
Both Parents are working or maybe one parent is working. Money is tight
Both sets of Parents might be church goers. Though I do believe the African American parents will have the stronger faith.
The friction is how the parents deal with situation regarding their kids.


I think I do believe I went off topic a bit. in a nutshell. Your individuality, your perception in life, your mindset, your ability to comprehend situational awareness,

Just name a few facet....this is when you develop your personal culture that will be similar but different from everyone else.

 cincydooley wrote:
And they commit a disproportionate amount of the crime and and represent a disproportionate amount of the incarcerated population.

So?

That should not affect how you treat an individual!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Relapse wrote:

Let me tell you about Reindeer herding, because I read about it and saw a couple of shows. As a result, I know all there is to know and there's no way someone who lives in Finland 24/7 could have anything beyond the knowledge I picked up.

Please do, I don't actually know much about that.

And what makes you think that racial profiling does not happen here? I wish it wouldn't, but it does. Recently Ombudsman for Minorities had to remind the police that it is not okay. (The police denied that such thing had ever happened, but that was obviously not true.)

When you actually look at all the facts of the case you can see that the Jury made the correct call.

The police will tell you "We don't need you to do that" any time you call them and tell them you are going to do something because they can not advise you on what to do as they do not want to be held liable.

They will even tell you "We don't need you to do that" if you call about a guy hanging from a bridge and you say that you are going to help him because you think he is going to fall before the police/fire department/paramedics can arrive.

Travon should not have started the fight. George should not have put himself in the position to get attacked. But George, once he was being beaten and having his head smashed on the concrete, had no choice one Travon was beating him and, according to George, said "You’re going to die tonight"

The "all-clear" for rioting was sounded a bit early, I think.

Hopefully the LA situation is resolved in a relatively civilized manner.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

Note, if it was a successful SYG invocation, Martin's family could bring a civil suit (which it appears they are going to do).

My guess, and opinion is that GZ's defense team felt it more reasonable to go to trial, which, IMO will remove any and all ground for a civil suit to be stood on. Obviously, I don't think a civil suit would be thrown out, I just highly doubt that with the outcome of the trial, that the Martin family will get a penny out of GZ... Now, GZ getting money from NBC on the other hand

NO. NO. There was no case to be made for Stand Your Ground. It's not even vaguely involved in this case or trial. I don't care what you thought about the verdict stop repeating this tripe. In ALL 50 U.S. states and most civilized nations if you are pinned to the ground or otherwise have no ability to retreat and are in fear of your life, lethal force in self defense is okay. Stand Your Ground (which removes the duty to retreat in the face of lethal threat) has NO bearing on this case what so freaking EVER.

The law suits Zimmerman is sure to file against NBC and other major networks will be fun to watch though.

Relapse wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

What are you talking about?

Racial profiling. How black people, even ones of high social status, get disproportionally often stopped by police, for example.

Let me tell you about Reindeer herding, because I read about it and saw a couple of shows. As a result, I know all there is to know and there's no way someone who lives in Finland 24/7 could have anything beyond the knowledge I picked up.

Responding to a post about racial profiling with what is essentially national profiling. Good job. How about attacking the argument instead of the poster?

 Crimson wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I think you underestimate the difference between inner city black culture and suburban white culture in the United States.

Whatever those differences are, I'm quite certain that compared to cultural differences between a Muslim from war torn Somalia and a average Scandinavian, they are rather slight.

We have them too. And Hmong, and refugees from Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Cuba, Ethiopia, and Sudan. We have a lot of different people. Tower of Babel, thine language is English (and Spanish).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Monster Rain wrote:
The "all-clear" for rioting was sounded a bit early, I think.

Hopefully the LA situation is resolved in a relatively civilized manner.

Well there are already reports of hispanics being targeted for attacks. Time to send in the Zetas. Viva La Raza!

The New Black Panther Party has officially announced a bounty for the capture of George Zimmerman.

Sounds like grounds for a harassment lawsuit and endangerment charges.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
The New Black Panther Party has officially announced a bounty for the capture of George Zimmerman.

Good thing he got his gun back, I suppose.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
The New Black Panther Party has officially announced a bounty for the capture of George Zimmerman.

Wait, is this the bounty they offered over a year ago, or is it a new one?

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
The New Black Panther Party has officially announced a bounty for the capture of George Zimmerman.

They should now be prosecuted for RICO.

 Frazzled wrote:
Well there are already reports of hispanics being targeted for attacks. Time to send in the Zetas. Viva La Raza!

Now, are these the "regular" Hispanics or the "white Hispanics." Oi Vey.

And quite frankly, I don't understand how organizations like the KKK or the New Black Panthers are allowed to publicly exist. They're terror organizations, no different in my mind than Al Quaeda.

@Crimson - I don't know what you want me to say about racial profiling. We have EXTENSIVE laws and provisions in our country in pretty much every avenue of public life that prevent people from doing it. Workplace. Banking, College Admission, etc. You name it, we have provisions in place to help prevent it.

You can prevent human preconceptions in their private life. You seem to be looking for some magical utopia where racial differences don't exist. There's a ride for that at Disneyland and that's about it. And, IMO, it's insulting to try and pretend we live in a colorblind world. We don't, and thats okay. But people will, and do, have prejudices based on experience.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Responding to a post about racial profiling with what is essentially national profiling. Good job. How about attacking the argument instead of the poster?

The point intedended from his comment is about as far away from what you understood it as as the US is from Finland.

His point was that he doesn't live in an area where reindeer herding even exists. He's got no 'real' practical authority to comment on it, regardless of how much he's read about it, or how much TV he's watched about it. The same, quite frankly, goes for anyone in a Scandanavian country trying to comment with authority on racial diversity and culture in the United States and telling those that live it every day they're wrong about how it works in the US.

He wasn't trying to be insulting or "nationally profile."

 Frazzled wrote:
Wow the Jeantel witness is on Pier Morgan (hate that guy). Pardon, but is she drunk? She acts like I do after I've had about four rums.

Wo.

She was a credible witness....... HAH can't say that with a straight face.

 cincydooley wrote:
There's a ride for that at Disneyland and that's about it. And, IMO, it's insulting to try and pretend we live in a colorblind world.

I don't. I know that prejudices exist.

We don't, and thats okay.

It is not okay; that was my point! It is one thing to say that prejudices exist, it is quite another to say that having prejudices is OK. You're basically saying that it is OK to be a racist, for feths sake!

 Frazzled wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
The New Black Panther Party has officially announced a bounty for the capture of George Zimmerman.

They should now be prosecuted for RICO.

... ''now''?

 Crimson wrote:

We don't, and thats okay.

It is not okay; that was my point! It is one thing to say that prejudices exist, it is quite another to say that having prejudices is OK. You're basically saying that it is OK to be a racist, for feths sake!

Except it isn't. There is a world of difference between having a prejudice and being racist. This blog article articluates it pretty well: http://seekingliberty.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/racism-vs-prejudice-there-is-a-difference/

Again, in this instance, Zimmerman was acting on a prejudice (which was substantiated by the FBI..) regarding young men with hoodies on in a gated neighborhood that had previously been victim to a string of break ins.

Along the same vein... check the attached official document:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/investigation/cop-told-fbi-zimmerman-not-a-racist-765093

Serino explained to agents that the local gangs, referred to in the community as “GOONS”, typically dressed in black and wore hoodies.

In other words, Martin was dressed very similarly to the local gangs... I wonder if Zimmerman knew that.

Here another really interesting point:

He listed Sgt AUTHOR BARNS, REBECCA VILLENOVE (phonetic), and TREKELL PERKINS as all pressuring him to file charges against ZIMMERMAN after the incident. Serino did not believe he had enough evidence at the time to file charges. Serino also stated that Barns is friendly with TRACY MARTIN.

Woah... in other words, the Martin’s family had connections with the cops.

Sgt_Scruffy wrote:

SYG was not invoked in this case.

You are missing the larger picture - whether it was invoked or not is no longer relevant. SYG is considered by many - like me - to be a contributing factor in this horrible business. If you want to stick to RAW, then you will be disappointed when reality ignores you. The cat is out of the bag, Pandora's box is opened, whatever....

Sgt_Scruffy wrote:

The defense used a standard self defense clause that is present in all 50 states and in most civilized countries in the world.

Again, not the point.

A "Civilized" country should never have allowed a law like SYG without careful consideration of all possible consequences. Zimmerman created the situation where he had to defend himself - he never should have created the situation.

Scott wrote:

A "Civilized" country should never have allowed a law like SYG without careful consideration of all possible consequences. Zimmerman created the situation where he had to defend himself - he never should have created the situation.

You're right. Poor judgement was used by Zimmerman. Zimmerman didn't 'create' the attack. The only way you can claim that Zimmerman "created the situation" is if you presume that Zimmerman knew that getting out of his car and following Martin would result in him getting attacked. Regardless, that poor judgement didn't necessitate that he be attacked. To remove any culpability from Martin is incredibly irresponsible. Both mens actions led to the final result. With simple changes on either side it could have turned out differently.

And considering that, based on what we know, if Martin kills Zimmerman after calling him a 'creepy ass cracker,' would Martin have been charged with a hate crime?

How did Zimmerman create the situation in which he had his head pounded into the concrete? Because that's the situation in which he had to defend himself.

 cincydooley wrote:

Except it isn't. There is a world of difference between having a prejudice and being racist. This blog article articluates it pretty well: http://seekingliberty.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/racism-vs-prejudice-there-is-a-difference/

Oh wow! Prejudice based on race is not racism! No wonder many blatantly racist people manage to think themselves as not racist if that level of cognitive dissonance is possible!

It depends on how specific your definition of racism is.

Scott wrote:


A "Civilized" country should never have allowed a law like SYG without careful consideration of all possible consequences. Zimmerman created the situation where he had to defend himself - he never should have created the situation.

...because?

Protip: if you don't want to get shot, don't break into another person's property.

 Crimson wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

Except it isn't. There is a world of difference between having a prejudice and being racist. This blog article articluates it pretty well: http://seekingliberty.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/racism-vs-prejudice-there-is-a-difference/

Oh wow! Prejudice based on race is not racism! No wonder many blatantly racist people manage to think themselves as not racist if that level of cognitive dissonance is possible!

I mean, you have to be intentionally missing the point, right?

Any prejudice towards Treyvon Martin in this instance was due to his clothing and demeanor, not his race. Both the Samford Police and the FBI have come to the same conclusion.

 Sigvatr wrote:

Scott wrote:


A "Civilized" country should never have allowed a law like SYG without careful consideration of all possible consequences. Zimmerman created the situation where he had to defend himself - he never should have created the situation.

...because?

Protip: if you don't want to get shot, don't break into another person's property.

B and E was never an aspect of the Zimmerman/Martin case.

 cincydooley wrote:

I mean, you have to be intentionally missing the point, right?

Any prejudice towards Treyvon Martin in this instance was due to his clothing and demeanor, not his race. Both the Samford Police and the FBI have come to the same conclusion.

That may be. But we were speaking about racial profiling in general. You were spamming crime statistics by race.

Scott wrote:

Sgt_Scruffy wrote:

SYG was not invoked in this case.

You are missing the larger picture - whether it was invoked or not is no longer relevant. SYG is considered by many - like me - to be a contributing factor in this horrible business. If you want to stick to RAW, then you will be disappointed when reality ignores you. The cat is out of the bag, Pandora's box is opened, whatever....

Sgt_Scruffy wrote:

The defense used a standard self defense clause that is present in all 50 states and in most civilized countries in the world.

Again, not the point.

A "Civilized" country should never have allowed a law like SYG without careful consideration of all possible consequences. Zimmerman created the situation where he had to defend himself - he never should have created the situation.

You're using the death of TM to further your own agenda. Nice.

Scott wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

Scott wrote:


A "Civilized" country should never have allowed a law like SYG without careful consideration of all possible consequences. Zimmerman created the situation where he had to defend himself - he never should have created the situation.

...because?

Protip: if you don't want to get shot, don't break into another person's property.

B and E was never an aspect of the Zimmerman/Martin case.

He probably shouldn't of been there, at the least he would of been trespassing.

Also Protip: don't fight people they may have a gun.