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From Beasts of War forum..

http://www.beastsofwar.com/groups/news-rumors/forum/topic/gw-policy-changes-on-stores-in-the-uk-sigh/?topic_page=1&num=15

...no bits sales, you cant break down the sprues or components and sell individually, ok so bye bye modelbits.co.uk, letthedicedecide.co.uk and any other UK bits seller. the other one is in order to sell online you have to have a shop front. I dont think there are many shops these days that dont have a store.... And lastly retailers cant sell on amazon or ebay..

Not sure if this is a new change or not, although according to the video in the link it is - For those who don't watch it, he is saying that from November GW will only supply shops that are bricks and mortar stores, and are open for a certain number of hours each day.

Obviously the biggest impact will be with people who are into their converting and making non-stock forces. Certainly other companies (Battlefront spring to mind) have done this for some time, but is this new for GW?

This looks similar to the new North American trade terms that went out a few months ago that were supposed to take effect June 15th, 2013. Tis a shame really :-\

...no bits sales, you cant break down the sprues or components and sell individually, ok so bye bye modelbits.co.uk, letthedicedecide.co.uk and any other UK bits seller..

How can they regulate this? I mean, presumably once you buy something from GW, whether as a distributor or an individual, surely you are free to do whatever the hell you want with it?

The north american trade rules were interesting rules to push on sales. This seems like the next logical step to an weird rule to begin with.

You can do what you want,

but GW is not required to sell to you, and you if sign a contract with them with those terms they can

It's certainly the basic terms that came in in the states early this year

(although I thought most of them were already in place here, except possibly the storefront requirement.... that might have been tied to discount level)

How has this affected the Warstore is the main question.

 Kirasu wrote:
How has this affected the Warstore is the main question.

They had a bits sell off before June 15th if I remember correctly.

Of course if you're a bits seller that doesn't have a contract with GW, then it really makes no difference.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
(although I thought most of them were already in place here, except possibly the storefront requirement.... that might have been tied to discount level)

Yeah, the storefront requirement is new for the UK. I was under the impression that they had never brought this in previously because UK trade laws made it illegal to discriminate on the basis of how and where a store sells the product... But that's just from accumulated internet discussion, so could well be wrong.


Here in Oz, the storefront requirement has been there since the late '90s. They brought it in due to a rash of people setting themselves up as trade account just to sell cheap product to their gaming clubs.

 filbert wrote:

...no bits sales, you cant break down the sprues or components and sell individually, ok so bye bye modelbits.co.uk, letthedicedecide.co.uk and any other UK bits seller..

How can they regulate this? I mean, presumably once you buy something from GW, whether as a distributor or an individual, surely you are free to do whatever the hell you want with it?

They drop you as a stockist if you sell the bits, and therefore you lose your GW discount and profit margin.

 insaniak wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
(although I thought most of them were already in place here, except possibly the storefront requirement.... that might have been tied to discount level)

Yeah, the storefront requirement is new for the UK. I was under the impression that they had never brought this in previously because UK trade laws made it illegal to discriminate on the basis of how and where a store sells the product... But that's just from accumulated internet discussion, so could well be wrong.


Here in Oz, the storefront requirement has been there since the late '90s. They brought it in due to a rash of people setting themselves up as trade account just to sell cheap product to their gaming clubs.

This is just GW protecting themselves against indies going bust owing them thousands. selling something on Amazon at a 20% discount off RRP when you'd be making 40% at full retail is not a feasible business model. It means single figure profit margins, as Amazon take a decent sized cut too.

There is also a chance that GW will be giving Amazon an account with them direct (I'm surprised they haven't done this already - all their products have EAN barcodes, and as they had Indies listing on Amazon beforehand they'll have the listings already saved on Amazon's servers). Amazon can then ban indies from stocking GW products on Marketplace, with hefty penalties for those who break the rules. Where I work sells more on Amazon than we do on our own (massively outdated) website, I'm sure this is the same for a lot of independent retailers with an Amazon presence.

I'm not sure how eBay works as it's something that where I work has only recently started selling on there properly, but that's how I see the Amazon situation.

thedavo wrote:
This is just GW protecting themselves against indies going bust owing them thousands.

Setting lower credit limits would accomplish the exact same thing...

 insaniak wrote:

thedavo wrote:
This is just GW protecting themselves against indies going bust owing them thousands.

Setting lower credit limits would accomplish the exact same thing...

Yep. Which is why I think the GW selling direct via Amazon makes sense. Especially as they can send a fethload of stock to Amazon for them to warehouse, pick, pack and post instead of employing people to do that for them. The rates for FBA are pretty close to sending the goods yourself from your own store on Amazon marketplace.

thedavo wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

thedavo wrote:
This is just GW protecting themselves against indies going bust owing them thousands.

Setting lower credit limits would accomplish the exact same thing...

Yep. Which is why I think the GW selling direct via Amazon makes sense. Especially as they can send a fethload of stock to Amazon for them to warehouse, pick, pack and post instead of employing people to do that for them. The rates for FBA are pretty close to sending the goods yourself from your own store on Amazon marketplace.

But that would fly in the face of GW moving everything in house

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
How has this affected the Warstore is the main question.

They had a bits sell off before June 15th if I remember correctly.

Also the Warstore now has a brick and mortar location to cover all their bases with regards to additional absurd rules.

Yet another example of GW trying to combat the interwebs.

Vetric wrote:

thedavo wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

thedavo wrote:
This is just GW protecting themselves against indies going bust owing them thousands.

Setting lower credit limits would accomplish the exact same thing...

Yep. Which is why I think the GW selling direct via Amazon makes sense. Especially as they can send a fethload of stock to Amazon for them to warehouse, pick, pack and post instead of employing people to do that for them. The rates for FBA are pretty close to sending the goods yourself from your own store on Amazon marketplace.

But that would fly in the face of GW moving everything in house

They can do both, run their own webstore, and have a stack of stuff on Amazon. They could also dispatch stuff from their own warehouse after selling it on Amazon. Again this is all hypothetical.

They could also provide a "bricks and mortar" discount, so websites that actually have a physical presence get better pricing than those that don't (they may already do this, I don;t know). There are plenty of ways for them to carry on supplying web-only retailers.

thedavo wrote:

Vetric wrote:

thedavo wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

thedavo wrote:
This is just GW protecting themselves against indies going bust owing them thousands.

Setting lower credit limits would accomplish the exact same thing...

Yep. Which is why I think the GW selling direct via Amazon makes sense. Especially as they can send a fethload of stock to Amazon for them to warehouse, pick, pack and post instead of employing people to do that for them. The rates for FBA are pretty close to sending the goods yourself from your own store on Amazon marketplace.

But that would fly in the face of GW moving everything in house

They can do both, run their own webstore, and have a stack of stuff on Amazon. They could also dispatch stuff from their own warehouse after selling it on Amazon. Again this is all hypothetical.

They could also provide a "bricks and mortar" discount, so websites that actually have a physical presence get better pricing than those that don't (they may already do this, I don;t know). There are plenty of ways for them to carry on supplying web-only retailers.

They could do a lot of things which would make more sense, but they don't, and almost certainly won't.

It's pretty standard in a allot of industries to not deal with Internet only sellers. Far to many fly by night operations out there and having a B&M store is one of the signs of a company that is putting real investment in to it rather than just some guy with a £50 web site, a load of trade credit and a spare bedroom. Many publishers will only sell to companies with a B&M store, unless the buyer is large enough to enter negotiation for its own bespoke contract.

I wonder if they have been stung by a few small companies just disappearing or paying very, very late. The "one order a week" makes me think it could be this too. To many companies ordering as they get orders rather than holding stock. Transfers all the risk to GW, whilst they take the sales because they have 0 risk or overheads they can pass on 20%+ of the trade discount.

The B&M stores have also probably been complaining about how they provide a load of services, hold stock and are being undercut by web stores (Just the same as I have seen in publishing).

This will be a shame, because the local convention scene has a lot of garage traders that do GW kits and bits. But then I think the bits guys don't buy much direct from GW anyway. It'll still be a shame if they go (unless they start stocking other franchises instead )

 Steve steveson wrote:
It's pretty standard in a allot of industries to not deal with Internet only sellers. Far to many fly by night operations out there and having a B&M store is one of the signs of a company that is putting real investment in to it rather than just some guy with a £50 web site, a load of trade credit and a spare bedroom. Many publishers will only sell to companies with a B&M store, unless the buyer is large enough to enter negotiation for its own bespoke contract.

I wonder if they have been stung by a few small companies just disappearing or paying very, very late. The "one order a week" makes me think it could be this too. To many companies ordering as they get orders rather than holding stock. Transfers all the risk to GW, whilst they take the sales because they have 0 risk or overheads they can pass on 20%+ of the trade discount.

The B&M stores have also probably been complaining about how they provide a load of services, hold stock and are being undercut by web stores (Just the same as I have seen in publishing).

As far as I know, the 'only make one order once per week' has been in place for quite some time - I know that Maelstrom used to trot out that excuse whenever the GW stuff you ordered was late. Also, I think the requirement to have a B&M store has also been around for a while; I'm sure I have heard it before, again with relation to Maelstrom - they had to open a B&M store in order to keep their account or something.

On a semi related note one of the last times I was in a GW arranging to trade/sell bits with other players in the store was forbidden, as had bits swap days been scrapped apparently. Official line was get people to buy the kits rather than the good old trade from the staff member I was talking to. He himself was wondering how effective that was for the kids of the general age they were getting these days...

That's interesting. Both of the GW shops near me have semi-regular 'bitz box' days with bits available free for anyone who buys a kit in the shop and give away bags of bits as prizes for competitions in the shop.

 filbert wrote:

...no bits sales, you cant break down the sprues or components and sell individually, ok so bye bye modelbits.co.uk, letthedicedecide.co.uk and any other UK bits seller..

How can they regulate this? I mean, presumably once you buy something from GW, whether as a distributor or an individual, surely you are free to do whatever the hell you want with it?

I assume if you want to have a trade contract with GW, which allows you to buy at a discount, then the contract could include a term and condition to stop you from splitting the kits. IDK about the selling on eBay and so on.

If you buy retail, the contract is that you pay the retail price and the kit is yours. You can then split it if you want to.

Given the growing 3rd party-manufactured bits market, e.g. Bits Pudlo and Chapter House, the restriction on official GW bits may not have a significant effect on veteran modellers.

I find the e-Bay and Amazon part most interesting. GW really does not want retailers to be able to sell GW products on the net. They seem to want to eliminate the option that a consumer can press a button and order GW stuff, except at GW.

What GW fails to recognize is that internet retailers add value, just as brick and mortar ones do. Some offer discounts. Others offer free shipping. Some have membership rewards. Others have ease of doing business, such as stored credit card and shipping information which leads to one click buying.

Buying from GW just sucks.

Competition is not working as it should in this market place. I say that in a UK and EU focused way.

I can just about get my head around the eBay restriction, even though they've chosen the most bizarre method to deal with it.

I've heard rumours of a store that buys in enough bulk to get a better tiered discount and dumping the excess on eBay at trade prices to get rid of it.

The solution to that would be to either set a minimum price, but I guess they don't want any of their stuff going through eBay.

I wonder if they can actually do that, if they can't touch UK online stores, why would an ebay storefront be treated any differently?

One order per week is just simple boxfill. Fewer shipments means better boxfill which means less spent on shipping. Basic profit control.

My LGS has already given up on stocking GW.

Mantic is now on the shelves where the GW stuff used to be.

 scarletsquig wrote:
My LGS has already given up on stocking GW.

Mantic is now on the shelves where the GW stuff used to be.

Interesting business decision. Presumably the Mantic rules scene is stronger in the UK than in the US?

I had to special order some of the enforcer models to check out. None of the LGS in our area stocks any Mantic stuff.