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So, i don't mean to start a Wardian hate-thread, but i cant get over one specific piece of Draigo fluff...

He carved a name into the heart of Mortarion?

Just let that sink in for a moment.

One of the 20, post-human demigod sons of the Emperor, got his teeth kicked in by a lowly Astartes? And top to top it all off, it wasn't 'just' a primarch, but a primarch all hopped up on daemon juice. Horus, similarly tripping on chaos, was able to mortally wound the Emperor...

I mean, yeah, the Grey Knights might be the best-of-the-best when it comes down to it, but they are still just Astartes in the end, however psychicly gifted they may be. Primarchs are so far beyond the scope of power of a space marine it isn't even funny. Like i said earlier too, a Daemon Primarch is another step above (or at least sideways from) a normal, un-ascended Primarch. On Armageddon, it took the combined efforts 109 Grey Knights terminators, and the diversionary attack of an entire grand-company of Space Wolves , to banish Angron back to the warp...and even then only 13 of the GKs survived that day.

So how am i to believe that one very pissed off GK was able to single handedly overwhelm a Daemon Primarch, and not to just banish him, but hold him down and humiliate him too?

Should this bit of fluff be taken with a grain of salt like many other examples of GK fluff? Or should i just stop thinking about this before my mind irreparably damaged?



Sorry if this is an old topic, but my freind and i got to talking about it this weekend during a game. Also, sorry for any grammatical errors, i typed this up on my phone in the middle of my C++ class.

I take it with a grain of salt, the whole GK codex reads like a 13 year olds "special snowflake" chapter.

That being said if we take it at face value then Draigo is either a Primarch himself, some sort of "Emperor lite" or a sleeper tzeetnch daemon trolling or my personal theory he is a sensei or star child so the Big E is his actual father, that combined with the astartes process made him ungodly powerful

Look, just go easy on Draigo, alright? He spends a lot of his time trapped in the Warp. He's seen things, man. Sometimes... sometimes he thinks he's done certain things, too. Just humor him. It's not easy being Draigo.

Yes you are. There are several differences.

Angron had 12 Bloodthirsters which usually need a Dreadknight, full Terminator or Paladin squad or Captain each, and if they were higher ranking Daemons, a Grand Master with him. Second, he had protection from the GK's.most powerful weapon, their psychic abilities by Khorne.

Thirdly, it is possible to do, however unlikely. If you take the FW Mortarion ruleset, apply the same changes a Chaos Lord gets if turned to a DP ( +3 WS, +2 Str, etc) and add the correct rules for a Nurgle CSM DP. Then take Draigo, swap his Titansword for a NFS, and drop to WS 6, it is entirely possible to do on the tabletop. Mortarion wins 99.9% of the time but Draigo can still win. Who's not to say that that was the time Mortarion failed his armour save AND rolled double 6s for his Daemonbane.

Finally, nowhere does it say that Mortarion was alive when he carved the name. More likely it was a post-Mortem (hehehe) act.

The funny part is how he managed to carve a name as long as 'Geritonian' with a blunt instrument on a heart.

Draigo is awesome...

Thing what bugs me is that little piece of fluff changed my view on Morty permanently...I mean he's a death Lord for Chris sake, and now he has a bad tattoo....

I tried ignoring, but it doesn't work ..Hating & bitching ??? Nah...I don't wanna waste my time on that......


...................................................................................................................................


Hmmm, maybe to like him despite angry nerds and constant Ward whining.....



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deadshot wrote:

Finally, nowhere does it say that Mortarion was alive when he carved the name. More likely it was a post-Mortem (hehehe) act.

Necrofilia?

Mind you, my freind and I were several beers/shots in when we started debating this... But my point still stands

 DarthMarko wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Finally, nowhere does it say that Mortarion was alive when he carved the name. More likely it was a post-Mortem (hehehe) act.

Necrofilia?

Pun.

Wow, a thread complaining about Draigo's terrible fluff. We've never had one of these before.

My opinion is, if the fluff is terrible, I ignore it. I used to try to justify it ("Maybe Mortarion was weakened from the fight") or come up with stuff that contradicted it ("Draigo couldn't have been at the fight because he had a doctor's appointment!") but now I just go on as if I'd never read it.

Draigo is, as you mentioned, a load of bs. Take it as over-the-top bs propoganda that is not fit to be thought of. It is to be a tale that the GK and inquisitors have made to make them feel more comfortable about the fact that the enemy has primarchs of chaos. Absolute utter bullocks Draigo is. So yes, treat it like a grain of nonsense along with the excessive killing of SoB that happens in so many codices, casual ease of killing the Avatar of Khaine, and Mkar's failprince capabilities.

That or think he did beat Mortarian (with the help of 50 terminators, one dreadknight, one dreadnought, and 20 strike units and possibly some ig firing blindly at him) and the carving is simply propoganda. For the most part, it is best to just ignore the blatant fanboyism of his character as though he doesn't exist.

I generally like Draigo; the one thing I'm most thankful for is the way he took a bunch of carefully constructed power level lists and broke them over his knee like a dry twig.

I like to think that the entire thing is in his mind. The fluff says that every battle he fights it appears he fails to make a difference no matter what he does.

This means that what is really going on is he was captured by Tzeentch who is playing with his mind showing that he lacks the power to do anything real but if he joined the powers of chaos he could actually accomplish something.

Guys go easy on draigo. He's been thru a lot...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xfJUi4cB4oc

You can take it with a grain of salt, ignore it, or assume that since the circumstances of him slaying Mortarion are very vague, that Mortarion was weakened by the grand master who was slain, as well as by god knows how many other troops.

 troa wrote:
You can take it with a grain of salt, ignore it, or assume that since the circumstances of him slaying Mortarion are very vague, that Mortarion was weakened by the grand master who was slain, as well as by god knows how many other troops.

Not to mention the fact that all eight Grand Masters were there, as evidenced by Draigo's promotion to Supreme Grand Master "amidst the din of the battlefield".

Most of the GK codex fluff is meh. If you really want good fluff read the books by Ben Counter.

Ward wrote (okay, fine, supervised, was in charge, etc. whatever the hell you want to say) it. Take it with a barrel of salt.

Or just stop whiing and accept that this guy is better than all your favourite Chapter Masters and custom chapters, and he genuinely is better than a Primarch? There is always a record to be broken and he broke it. Just like someone took over from Tiger Woods as golf #1, and Hussain Bolt's record will one day be broken.

Why wouldn't Draigo be able to give Mortarion a beating?

We had a simple Ork nearly killing the Emperor in his prime. It took the combined might of both Horus and the Emperor to drive off (not kill, drive off) said Ork.

That IS the main appeal of 40K. Even Gods are "mortal". Even Gods can get pwned. Nobody is safe. It's why I love 40K.

Also it's a book, people are allowed to write anything in a book.

Draigo beat mortarion end off. Nothing more nothing less, people can not like the fluff or hate it but the fact stand he beat mortarion.

Why are people trying to justify his not who he is when everything written is a story from a book (people write books, If I wrote the story about draigo I would write he is the son of the emperor and he is immortal)

His tabletop rules are not impressive so stop complaining

Wait ... "slay Mortarion"

He didn't kill him did he?!

Mellow wrote:
Wait ... "slay Mortarion"

He didn't kill him did he?!

Slay means sent back to the warp for demons.

Mellow wrote:
Wait ... "slay Mortarion"

He didn't kill him did he?!

He but he's a daemon primarch so it isn't gonna keep him down.
The fact that he's a daemon primarch is probably part of what helped him beat Mortarion...
Not that you'd know from the way Ward describes anything...
A lot of his stuff is like half of a story. You get one part which sounds silly without the other part...
That being said even when you do have the rest it sometimes still sounds silly...

 Zweischneid wrote:

We had a simple Ork nearly killing the Emperor in his prime. It took the combined might of both Horus and the Emperor to drive off (not kill, drive off) said Ork.

The Emperor staged the appearance of his struggle for life in order to increase his father/son relationship with Horus whilst at the same time letting Horus repay a "life debt" from when he had saved Horus in a previous conflict. Thus ensuring there was noting between them to encourage jealousy.

Where do I find this Ork almost kills Emprah story? I've seen people mention it but never found the original story.

It's pretty old IIRC

 shamikebab wrote:
Where do I find this Ork almost kills Emprah story? I've seen people mention it but never found the original story.

...I'd also like to read this.

Index Astartes IV, first page of the Sons of Horus Legion article is the version I have.

Dunno if it's the first time it appeared.



But what does it matter?

Wouldn't 40K be incredibly bland if a Primarch could never be defeated by a less-than-Primarch, or a Space Marine could never be defeated by a less-than-Space Marine, etc.. . Having this kind of deluded "fixed" power-hierarchy that pre-determines the outcome of any given fight before it is fought takes the whole point of conflict out of the setting.

How could possibly want such an incredibly static fictional universe?

The very essence of a heroism/drama/action is that somebody somewhere wins against the odds.



Finally, it should be pointed out that "carving the name" has figurative meaning which underlines the futility of Draigo's quest in exile. He is imprisoned in the Warp, where his actions have no meaning, no impact. While every other Grey Knight can contribute to the cause of Mankind by banishing Daemons to the Warp, Draigo's victories are utterly without purpose and meaning, as he only slays Daemons who are instantly re-done within the Warp.

Carving his name into a powerful Daemon, a Primarch no less, is a juxtaposition of both Draigo's immense powers and the absoluteness with which they have been neutered and made meaningless by his exile.

From what I heard/read it wasn't some "simpel Ork", it was a massive ork warboss^10. I mean they can get pretty huge and brutal with time. And I'm guessing it wasn't a one on one fight but in the middle of an over-the-top epic battle.

I think what a lot of people forget about this whole heart thing is this: Primarchs have 2 hearts, just as space marines do.

So, who's to say that Mortarion keeps them both inside his body? I like to imagine some Davy-Jones (from the Pirates of the Carribean) "heart in a box" style shenanigans. That way, Draigo can have his anatomical vandalism, and Mortarion remains a proper Primarch.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!