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First, I find Winter Guard Infantry meh, the Deathstar way to predictable, and they don't fit my theme. Also the Underboss is great but the Kazay Derpsassins sculpts are unacceptable.
I want to try to expand on my Khador so that they can actually be used.
Currently I have jacks + MoW + assassins, half the army is to slow to gain the midfield turn 2 in a combative manner and the other half is to squishy to act as anything other than an expensive speed bump.

What I need help with is how to expand, I have 3 options I am looking at: cool toys, thematic, and barely cheaper ($$$) but effective.

No matter which way I go I will be getting the Iron-fang Kovnik, +2” movement on shield walled MoW Shocktroopers and an inefficiently run Decimator or Juggernaut is to useful for me at only $20 and 2 points because it gets another $85 and 6-18 points to a more playable state.

My favorite option is: Lady Aiyana & Master Holt and Alexia Ciannor & the Risen.
pros: cheapest dollar wise, Aiyana will work for my secondary army, Aiyana makes MoW Demolition Corp really nice (+2 on damage rolls with backswing and the occasional unit wide magic weapon), I want to get them eventually anyway
cons: Aiyana is pricey in points, Alexia and Risen probably don’t make a good meat-shield to go claim an objective early.

The other two options I am equally Torn between: Iron Curtain theme with max Iron fang pikemen and both UAs (black dragon and basic officer and standard bearer) or cheap with 2 minimum / 1 max unit Steelhead Halberdiers

IFP Pros: strong theme continuation (Iron and Assassins), stays in faction, they can get up there and hold the line until the MoW arrive, more bodies when I eventually get Alexia
Cons: Easily $100+ from my FLGS (same as MSRP, I support the FLGS whenever possible), it will be 2-3 months before I can afford the base unit.

Steelhead pros: mostly fits theme, also works for my Menoth, by geting 2 unit boxes I will get more options, reasonable price, more bodies when I eventually get Alexia
cons: their role overlaps with IFP, they’re Mercs?

Grand plans/methods:
Karchev & Strakhov: 2 jacks (probably Black Ivan & Torch) brute force enthusiasm-ing it up
Sorchas: 1 jack (probably Black Ivan or Juggernaut) to use her points and try for assassination runs

Kayazy Eliminators, Widowmakers, and Manhunter: solo hunting, assassinating and the Widowmakers plinking at jacks, used to fill points after Demo Corp

Demo Corp and Aiyana: MoW run until they can charge, MoW go cause trouble and Aiyana usually applies the +2 to damage rolls to the unit/jack the Demo Corp is hunting and magic weapons if needed.

Shocktroopers, and Iron Fang Kovnik: Shield wall caster guard if I can’t get the Kovnik, otherwise shield wall forward with the +2” movement and 1 Jack if possible, usually Decimator going for the 2nd shot unless in melee then boost or extra attack as appropriate.

Steelheads: they go forward at top speed trying to engage or claim an objective

Iron Fangs: Shield wall forward, borrowing the Kovnik for a round or two if possible, try for the charge and CMA’s however as long as they engage around the middle of the table

Alexia: use dead Steelheads or Iron Fangs to beef up her unit if possible otherwise cause any trouble she can

I currently own:
Karchev the Terrible
Kommander Strakhov
P&E Sorscha

Black Ivan
Torch
Decimator
Juggernaut
Destroyer (wrong gun)

Kayazy Eliminators (lithe acrobatic women)
Man-o-war Demolition Corps (max)
Man-o-war Shocktroopers (max)
Widowmakers

Manhunter
Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator
War dog

What about the great bears of gallowswood? They hit hart, look cool and are a damn nuisance as long as they are tough and have pathfinder!
Or if that is still too slow: Fenris. He´s a beast. Literally. And both kits are more or less cheap.
Iron Fang Pikeman do have a real good reputation too but i haven´t used them yet.

Great Bears are awesome, so are Cylenna and her Nyss Hunters. Boom Howler and Co all spring to mind.

tommse wrote:What about the great bears of gallowswood? They hit hart, look cool and are a damn nuisance as long as they are tough and have pathfinder!
Or if that is still too slow: Fenris. He´s a beast. Literally. And both kits are more or less cheap.
Iron Fang Pikeman do have a real good reputation too but i haven´t used them yet.

The biggest thing is numbers, I need something that can get upfield fast (easily 20+ inches by the end of turn 2) and can block charges. Fenris & Great Bears may be awesome but they lack any real numbers. Also if I want more heavy hitters I get a jack marshal or two, on top of that I find the Bears and all doom reavers meh for sculpt.

darefsky wrote:Great Bears are awesome, so are Cylenna and her Nyss Hunters. Boom Howler and Co all spring to mind.

Cylenna and the nyss have the same problems as the Kazay Assassins, may be the perfect unit for what I want but way to bad of sculpts for me to deal with. Boomhowler however has potential, so much in fact I must now re-do my list with IFP being removed for being way to expensive in the end ($130+) for what I get and the pike hafts apparently needing replacement with my current transport method.

preference) unit(s): pros / cons
1)Aiyana and Holt, Alexia, and risen: look cool, look like fun to use in game / unlikely to be a good choice for what I am looking for
An extremely close 2)2 min / 1 max unit Steelhead Halberdiers: cheap by any measure, probably a good fit, 90% of the way to a viable merc army with them and my current minis / IFP are probably better
3) Boomhowler & Co.: bring guns to the table (4 rifles and a gun armed jack currently), look like an excelent tarpit, large area covered, work with my minuscule troll contingent / expensive, smidge slow (spd 5 correct?)

IFP are a great choice, especially with the new solo. Walking 8" in shield wall with reach and POW 13 is pretty sweet, and the two UAs give you some nice variety in how you proceed from there. They need little support, so Karchev likes them, and when actually given support by Strakov they fly.
Yeah, they're a bit expensive (ow, my wallet), but they're worth their weight in gold IMO, even AFTER the pain in the ass of brass rodding their pikes is counted in.

Boomhowler and Co are speed 6. Also dont discount the Great Bears because of numbers. If you use them as a second wave behind the IFP, or as a counter charge against Collasals/ Heavy jacks they are down right nasty.

Laughing Man wrote:IFP are a great choice, especially with the new solo. Walking 8" in shield wall with reach and POW 13 is pretty sweet, and the two UAs give you some nice variety in how you proceed from there. They need little support, so Karchev likes them, and when actually given support by Strakov they fly.
Yeah, they're a bit expensive (ow, my wallet), but they're worth their weight in gold IMO, even AFTER the pain in the ass of brass rodding their pikes is counted in.

Ok, sounds like you have used IFP and both UAs. If I only got one UA which should I go for based purely on tactics?

Also I am slightly confused, how does Strakhov get the IFP flying? (I realize you don't mean literally)

darefsky wrote:Boomhowler and Co are speed 6. Also dont discount the Great Bears because of numbers. If you use them as a second wave behind the IFP, or as a counter charge against Collasals/ Heavy jacks they are down right nasty.

Ok, Boomhowler just became #2 and is pushing #1 becouse they sound perfect (tarpit, guns, bodies, and speed), and fit my Trollblood/Khador theme of a detached Khador strikeforce funded by the Kazay (skilled people & top notch equipment cost money) that hired troll mercenaries.

If you look at the sections I bolded that is why I am discounting the Great Bears, they are too expensive to throw them out as a frontline semi-meatshield unit. The Great Bears need to be able to chose their target, not soak up anything that comes their way.

You can use the GB as a front line missile if you can screen them with clouds. Personally I use them as a deterant/ kill the scary thing that needs killing without exposing 13pts of jacks, unit.

Ok I have decided on what to get, first an Iron Fang Kovnik, then Boomhowler, third Great Bears, and finally Aiyana Holt Alexia and Risen.
Basically double the number of models on the frontlines, add in one-off purchase tarpit/first wave, get the awesome unit, and finally add in fun toys.

 ChaoticMind wrote:

Laughing Man wrote:IFP are a great choice, especially with the new solo. Walking 8" in shield wall with reach and POW 13 is pretty sweet, and the two UAs give you some nice variety in how you proceed from there. They need little support, so Karchev likes them, and when actually given support by Strakov they fly.
Yeah, they're a bit expensive (ow, my wallet), but they're worth their weight in gold IMO, even AFTER the pain in the ass of brass rodding their pikes is counted in.

Ok, sounds like you have used IFP and both UAs. If I only got one UA which should I go for based purely on tactics?

Also I am slightly confused, how does Strakhov get the IFP flying? (I realize you don't mean literally)

Regarding your first question, it depends on how you're using them. The Iron Dragons are probably better if you're using them as a jamming unit, pumping their armor up to an impressive 22 on minifeat turn, and preventing them from being knocked down or made stationary. Not bad for jack hunting either, as you can pick off systems with precision. The normal UA is better offensively, giving them Pathfinder on the charge and letting them fall back into shieldwall afterwards.

As to your second question, Strakov's feat gives Iron Fangs an impressive 15" threat range and Pathfinder while charging, as long as their targets are in Strakov's control area.

Finally, don't get an Iron Fang Kovnik if you don't have a shield wall unit to use him with. He's not bad offensively, but for your points you're better off grabbing Yuri if that's all he can do.

I have the perfect target for the Iron fang Kovnik's +2" shield wall move, I own the 2 player BB and he should make the shocktroopers a unit I will finally consider using.

I second the IFP. I use them with Vlad3 plus Dash and they rarely disappoint. They will be speed 9 with dash and the kovnik in shield wall? Ok!

 AgeOfEgos wrote:
I second the IFP. I use them with Vlad3 plus Dash and they rarely disappoint. They will be speed 9 with dash and the kovnik in shield wall? Ok!

P,E,&3 Vlad arguments don't sway me at all, Karchev, Strakhov, and Butcher3 however have a big impact, and P&E Sorscha will have some effect.

You NEED IFP+UA.

No other Khador unit is as ubiquitous as the IFP. You are worried about moving up the field on Turn 1? The IFP Officer can use 'Defensive Formation', and then the unit can run. How far? 18" up the field. Want to stay in Shield Wall? Grab the Iron Fang Kovnik solo, and give them Shield March, +2" of movement when they are issued the Shield Wall order.

More proof: There are an awful lot of spells, abilities, and feats that only affect faction models.

The IFP have great armor, awesome mobility, the blasting pike has reach, and on a crit, it knocks the target down.

A&H are an OK unit, but Aiyana is too easy to kill. They are a great self contained unit that works great on a flank, but they would be far down on my list of things to get for a new player.

Alexia and the Risen- Risen where made to be trampled. And Alexia, now that she is the unit leader, has to be played close, requiring living models to make more Risen. I have managed in the past to create some great assassination vectors with the Thrall Warrior, but his low MAT made him unreliable when faced against DEF 14+ (almost all warcasters/warlocks). The Witchfire was a fearsome weapon in MK I. In MK II, it's just a sword. :(

Steelheads? Are you kidding? IFP first. Heck, buy two units of IFP before you buy Steelheads. Steelheads are cheap, and unless you field the full Steelhead package, (Cav, Riflemen, Stanis Brocker), they are pretty ineffective. The only thing they have going for them is they are cheap.

You will use IFP all the time. Only in a few cases will you ever say "Gee, I wish I had taken another unit instead".

Shock troopers are moved up to playable with the IFK, They are still too many points IMHO.

Sad about them because they are amazing looking models.

ChaoticMind wrote:

 AgeOfEgos wrote:
I second the IFP. I use them with Vlad3 plus Dash and they rarely disappoint. They will be speed 9 with dash and the kovnik in shield wall? Ok!

P,E,&3 Vlad arguments don't sway me at all, Karchev, Strakhov, and Butcher3 however have a big impact, and P&E Sorscha will have some effect.

I don't know--Dash + Hand of Fate granting probable knockdown has been pretty good for me--then defensive formation for 7".

Tamwulf wrote:You NEED IFP+UA.

No other Khador unit is as ubiquitous as the IFP. You are worried about moving up the field on Turn 1? The IFP Officer can use 'Defensive Formation', and then the unit can run. How far? 18" up the field. Want to stay in Shield Wall? Grab the Iron Fang Kovnik solo, and give them Shield March, +2" of movement when they are issued the Shield Wall order.

You can't run + Defensive Formation (No worries--I thought you could too until Malfred, Killer of Dreams/Hope ™, corrected me;

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?123678-Iron-Fang-Pikemen-and-they-re-now-nerfed-DEFENSIVE-FORMATION-What-CAN-I-do-with-it

You can't run + Defensive Formation (No worries--I thought you could too until Malfred, Killer of Dreams/Hope ™, corrected me;

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?123678-Iron-Fang-Pikemen-and-they-re-now-nerfed-DEFENSIVE-FORMATION-What-CAN-I-do-with-it

Eh, yeah. I was trying to find that ruling earlier, but searching for anything on the rules forum... ugh. I remember being on the receiving end of Defensive Formation more often then not prior to the errata on it. Thanks!

Still, you have an ability that will allow you to advance, and advance again AND still remain in Shield Wall. Use this once per game ability on turn 1, and you will be either in a control zone, or poised to take it on turn 2. Not to mention ARM 18, and a full infantry unit threatening your opponent on turn 2. They are a great unit to jam your opponent with in Steamrollers.

@Laughing Man
Thank you for the response, based on your analysis I think I want the standard UA. I am jamming with them but fast offence is what I realy need them for.
Sorry if it seemed like I was ignoring your contribution I was slightly rushed last time and forgot to properly respond.

Tamwulf wrote: ... support for IFP ...

OK another vote for IFP, standard UA, & IF kovnik if possible. How do you think IFP & UA compare to Valichev (makes a merc unit faction), and Boomhowler & co. for fast tarpit?

Tamwulf wrote: ... Several helpful comments...

Ok A&H, and Alexia may look like fun but will fall into the same slot as Eliminators, potentially awesome but very finicky assassins.
So if I am thinking of doing a Steelhead company wait until I can go whole hog, not mix them in between with other purchases.

darefsky wrote:Shock troopers are moved up to playable with the IFK, They are still too many points IMHO.

Sad about them because they are amazing looking models.

To true, run & shieldwall, Rng 10, or a 3" blast would turn them into a unit I would actually consider.

AgeOfEgos wrote:

ChaoticMind wrote:

 AgeOfEgos wrote:
I second the IFP. I use them with Vlad3 plus Dash and they rarely disappoint. They will be speed 9 with dash and the kovnik in shield wall? Ok!

P,E,&3 Vlad arguments don't sway me at all, Karchev, Strakhov, and Butcher3 however have a big impact, and P&E Sorscha will have some effect.

I don't know--Dash + Hand of Fate granting probable knockdown has been pretty good for me--then defensive formation for 7".

Tamwulf wrote:You NEED IFP+UA.

No other Khador unit is as ubiquitous as the IFP. You are worried about moving up the field on Turn 1? The IFP Officer can use 'Defensive Formation', and then the unit can run. How far? 18" up the field. Want to stay in Shield Wall? Grab the Iron Fang Kovnik solo, and give them Shield March, +2" of movement when they are issued the Shield Wall order.

You can't run + Defensive Formation (No worries--I thought you could too until Malfred, Killer of Dreams/Hope ™, corrected me;

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?123678-Iron-Fang-Pikemen-and-they-re-now-nerfed-DEFENSIVE-FORMATION-What-CAN-I-do-with-it

Sorry I seem to have confused you, to me sculpt is the #1 thing and the PVlad eyesores and E/3 Vlad inflatable shoulderpads & growing weapons don't do it for me.
Any idea how the kovnik's +2" shieldwall interacts with the UA's minifeat after an order to move and shieldwall? do they go 14 or 16 inches?

 ChaoticMind wrote:

Sorry I seem to have confused you, to me sculpt is the #1 thing and the PVlad eyesores and E/3 Vlad inflatable shoulderpads & growing weapons don't do it for me.
Any idea how the kovnik's +2" shieldwall interacts with the UA's minifeat after an order to move and shieldwall? do they go 14 or 16 inches?

Ahh I'm with you, no apology necessary--I misunderstood .

The +2 would only apply during the first Shield Wall order--so 8" + 6" (Or 9" + 7" with Dash). Defensive formation isn't really a Shiedl Wall order per say--they just move, then are affected by it. At least that's how I interpret it.

 AgeOfEgos wrote:

 ChaoticMind wrote:

Sorry I seem to have confused you, to me sculpt is the #1 thing and the PVlad eyesores and E/3 Vlad inflatable shoulderpads & growing weapons don't do it for me.
Any idea how the kovnik's +2" shieldwall interacts with the UA's minifeat after an order to move and shieldwall? do they go 14 or 16 inches?

Ahh I'm with you, no apology necessary--I misunderstood .

The +2 would only apply during the first Shield Wall order--so 8" + 6" (Or 9" + 7" with Dash). Defensive formation isn't really a Shiedl Wall order per say--they just move, then are affected by it. At least that's how I interpret it.

I was slightly cryptic, which is a bad thing. English is already a mess, no need to exacerbate the problem.
Thanks for the interpretation, I don't have my forces book with me and I don't know anything about the kovnik's rules other what I have read in this thread and than that hive of double speak and vagueness: battle college.

 ChaoticMind wrote:


Sorry I seem to have confused you, to me sculpt is the #1 thing and the PVlad eyesores and E/3 Vlad inflatable shoulderpads & growing weapons don't do it for me.

e/3 vlad shoulderpads are optional.

he's actually a really nice model when you DONT put the damned things on.

Perfect.

Personally I believe that you should get all of them

Just keep in mind who you usually fight. Cryx? If I remember right


Good luck on finding something. Can't wait to see it across the board