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After wrapping up my guard project a few weeks ago, I've been working on my CSM again, and I'm struggling to complete the paintjob on my first new model. I've been getting closer, but I'm looking for something to add some pizazz to finish them.

The problem that I'm having is that I want these models to look really nice (as I'm only going to have a few of them), and I really want to push myself to be a better painter. To make models that are 110% of my current ability, as it were.

The problem is that I'm completely and horribly stuck. Everything I'm capable of thinking of that I think would look even remotely nice is also something that's going to be very, very easy to paint, and that's what I'm looking for help on. I want to have some sort of freehand, or some sort of OSL, or... I don't know... SOMETHING that's technically challenging. My only real limitation is that I want it to look nice with what I already have. I don't just want to do something difficult only for the sake of it being difficult - there has to be a bit of jiving.

Anyways, here's what I've already got so far.







As you can see, I've got a nice use of paint blending and washing to get the brass/gold color effect I'm looking for. The problem is what to do with the blank shoulderpad, the off-color on the bolters, the color of the gemmed-eye things, and what to do for the power weapons.

I have one of the gem colors in green as you can see, but I'm not committed to that as the color, that was just a trial. I've also been going back and forth over what to do with the power weapons that looks colorful, but not cartoonishly candy-coated.

I'd be willing to consider anything, but my current desires are moving most towards night lords or khorne. Something that isn't just painting red and washing, or painting navy blue with a few dubious light blue squiggles on it...

Anyways, as mentioned, I'm not great at painting, and I'm looking for inspiration from people who are so that I can reach out a little better from where I am right now. Any ideas would be much appreciated.

Yell chevrons and rust on the spikes. I think you used too much gold, blotting out the insides of the framed areas,so, while well executed, it's robbing the model of color

 poda_t wrote:
Yell chevrons and rust on the spikes. I think you used too much gold, blotting out the insides of the framed areas,so, while well executed, it's robbing the model of color

I'm inclined to agree with Poda on the gold being used in such a large amount. It takes your eyes away from the raised banding (where the gold is usually to be found) and makes the model look very single toned.

Perhaps adding a bit of a darker gold tone for the major part of the armor with the banding being the same shade that you already have?

I like the brass as the brass. I could see doing the non-raised part of both shoulderpads in the same color, but I'm not going to go back in and make it a colored model with gold trim. Think more like sanguiniary guard.

The question is what to do with the rest of it.

As for the spikes, I could definitely see a rusting in order. That or converting them over to also being brass.

Part of what makes the Sanguinary Guard models work so well in that single metallic tone is that they are essentially a 'flat' model in terms of how the detailing is done.

You have very little in the way of raised/recessed surfaces like you do with your Chaos Terminators. Extending the 'pelts' that you have to being draped along the shoulderpads rather than simply on the chestplate would significantly alter the flow of the model.

That is all in my opinion of course. I am not going to browbeat you with it.
I have quite a bit of the same problem as you when it comes to painting my Infinity stuff, I continually want to essentially do a 'one tone' model but then always feel like something is off later.

An interesting effect of the mono-gold on most of the model makes them look like they're almost imperial in nature.

Like the mentioned comments above, you could experiement with weathering. I would recommend some interesting free-hand designs on the black empty shoulder pad. Also, glowing eyes, possibly red with some glow effect or source lighting coming off of them would be pretty cool. You could also do some edge highlihgitn, and pick up the edges of the armor with a lighter color, or mixed gold/silver.

Kanluwen wrote:Extending the 'pelts' that you have to being draped along the shoulderpads rather than simply on the chestplate would significantly alter the flow of the model.

Well, and I'm not aversed to that either. I definitely could keep going with the GS as required, but the problem is that that's really only doing more to show off my GS skills, and not making a better attempt at painting.

Of course, there is already this thing going on with gold, brown, and white, and I COULD just push that up even more. The question is how to do a brown color without it being the same brown as the fur.

It's the same problem I'm having with the gem/OSL situation. I don't want to paint the shoulderpad blue, say, and then have the gems and the power weapon be the same color blue. Paint, gemstones, and power glows shouldn't be exactly the same color as they're made of different materials. The problem, though, is how to make things similar enough to have a theme, but not so similar that they look... well... the same.

Kanluwen wrote:I have quite a bit of the same problem as you when it comes to painting my Infinity stuff, I continually want to essentially do a 'one tone' model but then always feel like something is off later.

Well, and it's not a flatness of model problem I'm having. I actually want something that looks more realistic and less looks like they're wearing colored pajamas. The problem is how do I do an accent that doesn't too badly break theme and that has complicated painting, much moreso than a matter of what I can do to make my colors pop more.

 Ailaros wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Extending the 'pelts' that you have to being draped along the shoulderpads rather than simply on the chestplate would significantly alter the flow of the model.

Well, and I'm not aversed to that either. I definitely could keep going with the GS as required, but the problem is that that's really only doing more to show off my GS skills, and not making a better attempt at painting.

Maybe you could break up the uniformity of where the pelts are and have them draped differently for different models?

Of course, there is already this thing going on with gold, brown, and white, and I COULD just push that up even more. The question is how to do a brown color without it being the same brown as the fur.

Something else you could do with the gold is to use a different tone of wash for the armor plates versus the filligree/banding. A darker, earthier tone for the armor plates versus a more artificial tone for the filligree/banding maybe?

It's the same problem I'm having with the gem/OSL situation. I don't want to paint the shoulderpad blue, say, and then have the gems and the power weapon be the same color blue. Paint, gemstones, and power glows shouldn't be exactly the same color as they're made of different materials. The problem, though, is how to make things similar enough to have a theme, but not so similar that they look... well... the same.

Something like a minor tinting for the gem blues would be a good way to go for it, I think. Maybe add a small bit of a green to the gemstone's blue while the power weapons have a darker blue with a white tint?

Kanluwen wrote:I have quite a bit of the same problem as you when it comes to painting my Infinity stuff, I continually want to essentially do a 'one tone' model but then always feel like something is off later.

Well, and it's not a flatness of model problem I'm having. I actually want something that looks more realistic and less looks like they're wearing colored pajamas. The problem is how do I do an accent that doesn't too badly break theme and that has complicated painting, much moreso than a matter of what I can do to make my colors pop more.

I can understand this desire. I much prefer the 'realistic' tones myself and I have had the same problem before.

Bright blood red with red OSL eyes, Red OSL on the shoulder eye maybe.

rust on the spikes is a good idea. bright bestial brown rust patches. or dried blood effect on them could also work.

skulls on the shoulder pads?

Hey dude i really like the brass personally, it is a change from the straight gold.

I hate to be a know it all but brass does not rust it is a case of patina. Brass is made up of roughly 70%-90% of copper then the rest is tin and zinc so rather then a rusty colour it goes a powdery white/green. If you want to avoid a cartoon look I would use a touch of sotec blue in the crevices and then a very light dry bry brush of brass over the top in places which will give a good seperation between the banding and the internal pad.

As for free hand look online for a company called aero color. They do a pen which you can fill with a watered down acrylic. Not only will it help with the free hand but if you do go for the discoloration idea I mentioned before you would be able to put a nice edge above the banding.

The overall muted look is really nice. A bright OSL effect from the eyes would add contrast and the fact that the rest of the mini is so muted would serve to highlight the OSL effect.

Have you ever tried the cracked lava field effect on your armor pads?

Start with kinda thick red lines across the black armor plates then just start lining the red with smaller and smaller lines of orange then yellow inside the red.

try on a piece of paper first..

As far as freehand and OSL is concerned, practice first on sacrificial models before doing it on almost finished ones. Especially if you haven't done them before. And until you have practiced enough to apply them on the model confidently, then and only then should you try.

Hazard stripes on the black areas are one of my favorite touches, but might not be what you're looking for. Freehanding a Legion/Chapter/Warband insignia on their blank shoulderpads is a no brainer. You could go for a more realistic fur treatment, as fur tends to have some variation to its tone:


That being said, your models are looking lovely. These are leagues better than the Guard I remember so fondly in your battle reports. You could also really go all-out on basing the models as well.

Well, the fur does have a little bit of variation to it. I'd blame the vagaries of photography, but the effect IS rather subtle. In any case, I've tried on more than one occasion to do wolf pelts, and it never comes out right for me, which is why I'm assuming my dudes are clad in more like...



... which doesn't actually have THAT much variation in it.

Anyways, I've been messing around with a lot of stuff, and have already tried several things that I've detested. The biggest problem is that there seems to be no line whatsoever between solid block of brass and horrible checkerboarding. I guess this is one of the problems you get with metallics, but it's driving me insane. I don't get how I can pretty much instantly make a model look too cluttered by the smallest changes.

The worst part is that I've been working and draining most of my brainpower on this for the past few weeks. I'm almost getting to the point of this whole project being more trouble than it's worth. I'm almost getting to the point of just completely giving up and abandoning my painting goal altogether. Of course, if I cling on to said goal too long, I'm at real peril of quitting the entire project and leaving some half-finished terminators just hanging around.



Man, it really is difficult to take pictures of metallics.

Anyways, I'm pretty frustrated with this. The fact that the gore spashes on the chainsword, the copper-colored lettering, and the brown of the fur don't quite match is driving me batty. Honesly, it looks like a pizza - golden-colored cheese with a bunch of little bits of random color sprinkled haphazardly around. It looks both drab AND cluttered at the same time.

I just don't get it.

I think you're being a little hard on the project. It's coming along and you're progressing. Just keep on progressing. Every time you push yourself, you can't expect that it will work out. You CAN expect to learn from it.

Personally, my recommendation would be to add different blood variations to the chain sword. Blood is never uniform and there should be different colours of blood on it as the blood will have dried at different rates.

Have you thought about bringing interest to the piece via weathering and damage?

They look so much better dude. I love the copper writing on the pauldrons!!! I think the contrast of the fur brass and copper looks amazing.

I would say they look far from drab. The fact the colours are muted makes them look awesome. They will stand out from everything else on the table.

As for the gore I would advise looking up some orks as a bit of inspiration. As falhurk said gore is about variation of colour. Use reds and browns. I use Memphistone with different amounts of dryad bark and few splashes of khorne red.

Seriously don't give up, they are looking awesome already and a bit of work on the gore would be the final touch.

I really want the blood splashes on the chainsaw to look wet - if you have a gloss-coat, I might put some variations red on the spatters, then carefully gloss where the blood is, to make it look fresh. that will create some good variations you can play with.

 Ailaros wrote:
Well, the fur does have a little bit of variation to it. I'd blame the vagaries of photography, but the effect IS rather subtle. In any case, I've tried on more than one occasion to do wolf pelts, and it never comes out right for me, which is why I'm assuming my dudes are clad in more like...



... which doesn't actually have THAT much variation in it.

Anyways, I've been messing around with a lot of stuff, and have already tried several things that I've detested. The biggest problem is that there seems to be no line whatsoever between solid block of brass and horrible checkerboarding. I guess this is one of the problems you get with metallics, but it's driving me insane. I don't get how I can pretty much instantly make a model look too cluttered by the smallest changes.

The worst part is that I've been working and draining most of my brainpower on this for the past few weeks. I'm almost getting to the point of this whole project being more trouble than it's worth. I'm almost getting to the point of just completely giving up and abandoning my painting goal altogether. Of course, if I cling on to said goal too long, I'm at real peril of quitting the entire project and leaving some half-finished terminators just hanging around.



Man, it really is difficult to take pictures of metallics.

Anyways, I'm pretty frustrated with this. The fact that the gore spashes on the chainsword, the copper-colored lettering, and the brown of the fur don't quite match is driving me batty. Honesly, it looks like a pizza - golden-colored cheese with a bunch of little bits of random color sprinkled haphazardly around. It looks both drab AND cluttered at the same time.

I just don't get it.

It's partly because chaos terminators are kinda crapy looking busy models to start with. The first thing i would do personally is get rid of the trophy racks, i hate them.

Your models are looking pretty good. Just pick one bright color that you want to add and stick with that, i think we both hate the candy shop look. i think bright red will be a good choice.

and get some tamiya clear red to improve the appearance of that blood.

Firstly, I did just do a little bit of weathering on the model. Specifically, the black-sponge-dab thing that's more commonly used on vehicles. I don't know why, but somehow it does actually make them look a fair bit better.

Secondly, perhaps 305 is right - perhaps these are just too much of texture models to be all that much with regards to painting models. This would be especially true once I've added in my own extra texture as well. Perhaps the thing to do really is to just paint the whole thing brass, and to do just that very well.

I'd still like to have SOMETHING though to kind of set it apart a bit. I'm having a hard time seeing just what I'd do for freehanding or OSL, though, as I'm not in any way interested in making the skull eyes all glowey, and don't know what color could really pull off on a power weapon either.

And no, I'm not getting rid of the trophy racks. They're probably my favorite part of the model.

Lava bases?
You might get some GS in there, you'll definately get some OSL in there and you can play with shadows from different light sources. Failing that you could theme them as raiding a city with street lights and civvies with torches legging it.
Some aging on the skulls and tusks may also help you out a bit. They look a bit brand new for the aged, polished copper look.

Oh, and how did you do the lettering? The fading around the edges looks bril.

The Termies look brilliant dude, the brass is done imo perfectly, and since you are thinking of Khorne or Night Lords I can only suggest a technique i've been playing with recently? if you don't want them to be overboard or cartoonish, i've been trying to get a translucent effect on the skin of my Daemon with veins showing through, you could use a similar style to represent fading lightning bolts on the pads or legs? or for Khorne you could just do cracks with the brightness showing through?

all you do is trace on your design with a wash or ink very lightly and build up the brightness or darkness of the design depending if your base colour of the model is light or dark of course :-) then at the junctions of the bolts or veins make the colour stronger until right in the point they meet it's at it's brightest (or darkest again) I can show you some pics if you like? they're in my gallery down the bottom!

What kind of bases are you thinking of using with them? I think what you need some kind of color on your base to pull away from the duller tones. Then take a look at the models on the bases. Temp them in with blutac or something and show a few pictures of them.

Leave the pad blank. It looks good that way.

e: saw the later picture. That's pretty awesome!

I think you should leave the pads as they are now, that detail is good looking. You should have the brightest and most saturated colors as their eyes, I would recommend orange with orange-yellow mix as the brighter parts. This would make one instantly first look at the head.

With the way they are colored now, snow-bases would fit very well to their color-theme.

the only problem i see now is the left shoulder. The right side looks very good, but I imagine the left side is still heavy on the metallics.

Blaggard wrote:Oh, and how did you do the lettering? The fading around the edges looks bril.

I put down the gradient and then masked the letters with black. Basically, I painted the negative space, not the positive space.

As for the bases, I'm thinking either something somewhat muddy/trench themed, or something more like generic off-grey sand, bits of static grass, and trying to add in some details of one sort or another. On the one hand, I don't need ANOTHER thing to agonize about, while on the other hand, this does sort of redirect my mind from the other problem.

Anyways, I've been doing some more work on this problem. As mentioned, I've done some weathering and, though it's a little hard to see on the pictures, it actually makes it look a fair bit better. I also did several attempts at something more like a squad marking or an insignia, and I also tried it where I just said screw it and painted it brass.



No matter what I did with the freehand, I didn't like it. In part, I think it's because I actually don't like the idea of insignias on chaos models, the more I've been thinking about it. Something kind of dulls the free-spirited nature of what I see as the base of CSM.

Also, the checkerboarding problem continued to persist. After more thinking and more talking with people, the problem has started to become plainer. I can't just have one shoulderpad be different. I need to have it as part of a strong secondary color. The problem with this is that I don't WANT it to look like your usual color-and-gold-trim, I want gold-colored space marines.

Which is what is starting to draw me towards the solid brass. I'd be more or less giving up, but I'm starting to become a little more comfortable with that. After all, I want something that's a challenge for me to paint, and I'm sort of getting it just with my brass and my weathering, etc. Also, I'd like to show off the fact that I can do free-handing, but that's not the point of the model. I only want free-hand if it makes the model look better. The model isn't there as merely a way of showing off a bit of 2-D artwork.

That said, I'd still like to think there is something that accomplishes both.

I did make one, final attempt. Rather than going with a symbol, I decided to go with a pattern.



This was using the same method I was just talking about, where I put in a gradient from codex grey to skull white, and then blocked in the black over it.

I'm having kind of a strange reaction to it. On the one hand, it gets off this rather disturbing and creepy thing I've been looking to get back, and it somehow actually works with the brass somewhat. On the other hand, it IS sort of pointless detail, and doesn't really add all that much to the model, I don't think.

But by now it's pretty much down to the actual checkering, or the straight brass. My wits are very much at an end.

When I see checkers, I think Goffs. It's well done, no lie, but I'm not sure how much I feel it on this model.

That is a huge improvement with the weathering, even if you think it is not really showing through.

In regards to the shoulderpads--have you considered doing a quartering for the shoulderpads rather than the checkerboard?
Like Brother SRM says, when I see checkers I think Orks...but when I see quartering I think Astartes.

After having another look at what you've done I think perhaps the solid brass is the way to go with them! the free hand is nice and done really really well, but I don't think you need it tbh, a good colour with some weathering and a little oxidation should pull these models up to look even more amazing than they are already (and they are!!)