Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Due to a recent event that occurred at my local GW store,

I was wondering if it is a current trend in GW stores to ask longtime customers if you want to game in their stores either buy all your GW products at a GW store or leave the store?

I was wondering if this is just my area or this is something thats happening more recently in all GW stores?

EDIT: I think I should explain my position more clearly. That recent event I am mentioning resulted in me being told to never come to the store unless I buy something.

Wow, being a longtime customer I would be pissed if my FLGS said that to not only me, but any of the 'usuals'.

Of course though, they have the right (in Australia anyway) to deny you access to their premises for any reason they see fit. But this is pretty much blackmail.

I would be taking my business elsewhere!

I haven't seen it happen in my area but it certainly seems to be the way GW stores are moving. First they moved to one man closets, then they removed all open gaming in a few places, telling people to buy something (and/)or get out is the next logical step.

That they let people play in store at all is a remnant of the old ways. Tables are for demo games and making sales, especially in the smaller stores where space is at a premium. Many independent FLGS hold gaming nights that don't net much profit, but by encouraging a community to form they hope to reap benefits over time, it's what stores like Dark Sphere or Firestorm Games do. GW don't see it like this, you are either spending right now or you are not.

The problem is you are generalising all GW store managers into this. Store managers have a sales quota to fill, but as long as they tote the company line and don't generate complaints to HQ and don't step outside of their rules, GW mostly leaves them to how they make their sales quota.

Some managers are like this - they want you either buying product or not be in the store. They don't want to 'babysit' a bunch of people who are not giving him sales.

Some managers take a more community related approach - if you're in the store, having fun with likeminded people, you're more likely to spend at the store.

Some manager do a mix. They'll have gaming days and non-gaming days. On non-gaming days, it's buy or get out. On gaming days, they help foster the community.

Some managers love their job, love interacting with people, and love getting involved with the community. Some managers are complete douchebags who aren't overley interested in the community, players or sometimes even really the game - they're just there to do their job.

While it's fun saying 'All GW store owners are jerks', it's a pretty unfair generalization. There's just as much a chance to have an donkey-cave GW store manager as there is to have an donkey-cave independant store manager.

Gaming nights, events, casual play...all adds up to more income for the FLGS. You support your customers, they support you.

There is no need (and many reasons against) telling customers something like "buy or leave".

The longer someone is in the store, the more likely they are to buy somethime.

 mikhaila wrote:
Gaming nights, events, casual play...all adds up to more income for the FLGS. You support your customers, they support you.

There is no need (and many reasons against) telling customers something like "buy or leave".

The longer someone is in the store, the more likely they are to buy somethime.

Thankfully I have since found a FLGS that's great to me.

You must understand this, the GW store manager wants to be alone in the store from time to time

 mikhaila wrote:
Gaming nights, events, casual play...all adds up to more income for the FLGS. You support your customers, they support you.

There is no need (and many reasons against) telling customers something like "buy or leave".

The longer someone is in the store, the more likely they are to buy somethime.

Yeah... If you take the "buy something or leave" mindset with any store, but especially a game store, then you are basically killing yourself.... B/c customers remember that kind of stuff, and will happily buy their stuff online for way cheaper and play at somebody's house if you force them to do so....

Sad news if this is widespread. We've been in Truro, Bluewater, Cambridge & Canterbury in the last couple of months and not been hassled (altho we did buy Dark Vengeance one visit). We only found one store, Lincoln, wasn't receptive to casual games.

What was your store? And might there have been a particular reason the manager got stroppy?

 -Loki- wrote:
The problem is you are generalising all GW store managers into this. Store managers have a sales quota to fill, but as long as they tote the company line and don't generate complaints to HQ and don't step outside of their rules, GW mostly leaves them to how they make their sales quota.

Some managers are like this - they want you either buying product or not be in the store. They don't want to 'babysit' a bunch of people who are not giving him sales.

Some managers take a more community related approach - if you're in the store, having fun with likeminded people, you're more likely to spend at the store.

Some manager do a mix. They'll have gaming days and non-gaming days. On non-gaming days, it's buy or get out. On gaming days, they help foster the community.

Some managers love their job, love interacting with people, and love getting involved with the community. Some managers are complete douchebags who aren't overley interested in the community, players or sometimes even really the game - they're just there to do their job.

While it's fun saying 'All GW store owners are jerks', it's a pretty unfair generalization. There's just as much a chance to have an donkey-cave GW store manager as there is to have an donkey-cave independant store manager.

This is certainly very true, however, in the UK at least, the things outlined in the OP and other threads of a similar topic are becoming more and more like policy dictated by HQ. Pretty much all UK stores are one man now (I suppose there are some that aren't but I think the drive is to get them all that way) and there have been more and more instances of free gaming (ie. tip up and use a table) being banned. In fact, some stores have gone as far as banning gaming completely, even if you book in advance.

Partly this is due to the fact that UK stores are on the whole tiny anyway, but also it seems to be more of a direction from on up high that casual gaming is to be discouraged and that only demos are allowed. The fact that some managers are now preventing people from hanging around in stores without buying stuff is really just a follow on to this. Wasn't there a similar thread recently about someone being asked to leave a GW Store because he had no intention of buying anything?

This kind of scares me that the GW we visit in AUS. Is only wanting to make profit out of talking with us.
Not feeling the love GW..

[This thread again face]

Small shops filled with (often) smelly gamers standing about chatting and not buying anything are not conducive to selling moar games and whose very presence reduces sight lines enabling theft and could also represent a Heath & Safety risk in the event of fire/apocalypse. Said gamers have no right or entitlement to be there beyond the acceptance of the onsite management.

I think I captured the way this whole discussion goes in one neat paragraph.

Okay people lets shut this baby down till next time.

Let this be a lesson to you urchin, now be on yer way least I call the rozzers.

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Sad news if this is widespread. We've been in Truro, Bluewater, Cambridge & Canterbury in the last couple of months and not been hassled (altho we did buy Dark Vengeance one visit). We only found one store, Lincoln, wasn't receptive to casual games.

What was your store? And might there have been a particular reason the manager got stroppy?

The particular reason why the manager got stroppy was because I bought my eldar codex and wraithguard at a FLGS recently and I do mean recently.

I was more distressed when he told me he checked my account to see if I bought those models at any GW location.

The full situation as far as I recall was this:

I come into the store for a game against another dakkanite (this store was the only place he could go to). I see the manager and we banter for a bit, he then asks about what I am bringing, I say eldar and I have the new codex.

He then checks his computer and see's that I did not buy my codex from any GW store. He brings me aside and asks where I bought my codex. I tell him the truth.

After telling him the truth he goes into a speech about whether what I did was ethical. He says that what was I doing caused the closure of another GW I liked alot and that I have responsibility to make sure that his store stays open and that he keeps his job so he can feed his family.

The problem is I saw this coming a mile away. Here is another thread I made that explains what I saw coming http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/531008.page

The fact he can look your purchases up on the system is a little scary.

We buy some of our stuff from GW stores (and some from Dark Sphere) so we can feel relaxed about playing in their stores. If I felt we were under surveillance, if it were a compulsion rather than a question of goodwill, maybe we'd simply move on, play somewhere else.

At the same time, you can see the manager's point, can't you?

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
The fact he can look your purchases up on the system is a little scary.

We buy some of our stuff from GW stores (and some from Dark Sphere) so we can feel relaxed about playing in their stores. If I felt we were under surveillance, if it were a compulsion rather than a question of goodwill, maybe we'd simply move on, play somewhere else.

At the same time, you can see the manager's point, can't you?

I would understand the managers point only if I my entire army was bought from my flgs and that I game there regularly(no on both parts). I have not been to the store to game for several months.

 MRPYM wrote:

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Sad news if this is widespread. We've been in Truro, Bluewater, Cambridge & Canterbury in the last couple of months and not been hassled (altho we did buy Dark Vengeance one visit). We only found one store, Lincoln, wasn't receptive to casual games.

What was your store? And might there have been a particular reason the manager got stroppy?

The particular reason why the manager got stroppy was because I bought my eldar codex and wraithguard at a FLGS recently and I do mean recently.

I was more distressed when he told me he checked my account to see if I bought those models at any GW location.

The full situation as far as I recall was this:

I come into the store for a game against another dakkanite (this store was the only place he could go to). I see the manager and we banter for a bit, he then asks about what I am bringing, I say eldar and I have the new codex.

He then checks his computer and see's that I did not buy my codex from any GW store. He brings me aside and asks where I bought my codex. I tell him the truth.

After telling him the truth he goes into a speech about whether what I did was ethical. He says that what was I doing caused the closure of another GW I liked alot and that I have responsibility to make sure that his store stays open and that he keeps his job so he can feed his family.

The problem is I saw this coming a mile away. Here is another thread I made that explains what I saw coming http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/531008.page

WOW.... so it is your job to make sure he has a job.... that is sad.

 MRPYM wrote:

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
The fact he can look your purchases up on the system is a little scary.

We buy some of our stuff from GW stores (and some from Dark Sphere) so we can feel relaxed about playing in their stores. If I felt we were under surveillance, if it were a compulsion rather than a question of goodwill, maybe we'd simply move on, play somewhere else.

At the same time, you can see the manager's point, can't you?

I would understand the managers point only if I my entire army was bought from my flgs and that I game there regularly(no on both parts). I have not been to the store to game for several months.

I'm surprised that there is a system to look you up in. I never had to sign in or something when I was buying at my local GW

I'd have told him that I buy a lot from GW direct and where I got a particular item is none of his business, but with that attitude he can be sure that little of it will be from him in the future, but if I need to pay to play I'll have a pot of Chaos black paint, thanks*.

I'd also at least be threatening to contact their head office because that's no way to treat customers.

I also reckon that as long as one of the gaming players using a table buy stuffs or is a regular gamer then there should be no problem with their opponent not buying, it is a social game after all.


*You can never have too much of it, it's probably the cheapest thing in store, and it'll probably mess up his sale averages which I believe they have targets on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 motyak wrote:

 MRPYM wrote:

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
The fact he can look your purchases up on the system is a little scary.

We buy some of our stuff from GW stores (and some from Dark Sphere) so we can feel relaxed about playing in their stores. If I felt we were under surveillance, if it were a compulsion rather than a question of goodwill, maybe we'd simply move on, play somewhere else.

At the same time, you can see the manager's point, can't you?

I would understand the managers point only if I my entire army was bought from my flgs and that I game there regularly(no on both parts). I have not been to the store to game for several months.

I'm surprised that there is a system to look you up in. I never had to sign in or something when I was buying at my local GW

He can probably check the stuff you've put through that register and your online sales. If you'd paid cash he'd have no way to tell, and if you hadn't been in for a while I'd be surprised he'd remember you.

More likely is that he checked who he sold the Codex or Wraithknights to (since he won't have had many) and you weren't one of them, so would have no way to dispute if you bought if from GW online or from another GW store.

I've not encountered this at my local store - they're more than happy to chat or discuss the game or painting techniques without expecting me to buy something there and then. Granted, there's an unspoken covenant that if they're running a demo game, you don't interrupt - but that's just basic good manners. They do have those quotas to make, after all, and I'm more than happy for them to make them off someone else if I'm not after buying.

Then again, my local GW isn't a one-man show - there're normally two staff in at any given time, occasionally three. And they do take a more community-centric approach now than they did a few years back under the previous management (weekend club, organised tournaments, etc). Every model you field has to be GW, Forgeworld, or kit-bashed from the two, but again I'd consider it good manners not to take along models with third-party stuff on them to a GW Hobby Centre, so the limitation doesn't annoy me in the slightest.

A way to be loyal and still avoid snooping is to have more than 1 GW website account.
Usually, a staffer should not be allowed to scan through a user's details, by policy. That kind of info should only be used for marketing and finance reasons, not for managers to keep tabs on customers.

"Can I have a look at all the stuff you have on me as required by the Data Protection Act? Like, RIGHT NOW?"

Checking up on you like that is bananas...

 Skinnereal wrote:
A way to be loyal and still avoid snooping is to have more than 1 GW website account.

I'm sorry, is GW a company trying to sell you miniatures or are they your wife that you feel you are cheating on?

And here the local FLGS (not a GW store) is wishing the guy in the joint next door would leave so we can scoop up the place and expand our game room and sales floor.

PhantomViper wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
A way to be loyal and still avoid snooping is to have more than 1 GW website account.

I'm sorry, is GW a company trying to sell you miniatures or are they your wife that you feel you are cheating on?

pretty sure for some of us they can be like a mistress you are cheating on our wives with... lol j/king!

Graphite wrote:
"Can I have a look at all the stuff you have on me as required by the Data Protection Act? Like, RIGHT NOW?"

Checking up on you like that is bananas...

Agreed, what that store manager did was nuts.

As regards your question about the records GW keeps on you, though, you can see them by logging into your GW website account - there's a record of your previous orders and their status, and that's about it. From my order history, I guess a store manager would, rightly, deduce I collect SoB. My local store manager doesn't need to, though, since he already knows I collect SoB.

 MRPYM wrote:

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Sad news if this is widespread. We've been in Truro, Bluewater, Cambridge & Canterbury in the last couple of months and not been hassled (altho we did buy Dark Vengeance one visit). We only found one store, Lincoln, wasn't receptive to casual games.

What was your store? And might there have been a particular reason the manager got stroppy?

The particular reason why the manager got stroppy was because I bought my eldar codex and wraithguard at a FLGS recently and I do mean recently.

I was more distressed when he told me he checked my account to see if I bought those models at any GW location.

The full situation as far as I recall was this:

I come into the store for a game against another dakkanite (this store was the only place he could go to). I see the manager and we banter for a bit, he then asks about what I am bringing, I say eldar and I have the new codex.

He then checks his computer and see's that I did not buy my codex from any GW store. He brings me aside and asks where I bought my codex. I tell him the truth.

After telling him the truth he goes into a speech about whether what I did was ethical. He says that what was I doing caused the closure of another GW I liked alot and that I have responsibility to make sure that his store stays open and that he keeps his job so he can feed his family.

The problem is I saw this coming a mile away. Here is another thread I made that explains what I saw coming http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/531008.page

If your FLGS is a GW "stockist" then they are an official GW channel and he shouldn't be upset. There's nothing unethical about buying from somewhere GW says they want you to buy from. He should be more curious about why you bought there and not from him, and what he can do to overcome his disadvantage (usually price).

Mythal wrote:

Graphite wrote:
"Can I have a look at all the stuff you have on me as required by the Data Protection Act? Like, RIGHT NOW?"

Checking up on you like that is bananas...

Agreed, what that store manager did was nuts.

As regards your question about the records GW keeps on you, though, you can see them by logging into your GW website account - there's a record of your previous orders and their status, and that's about it. From my order history, I guess a store manager would, rightly, deduce I collect SoB. My local store manager doesn't need to, though, since he already knows I collect SoB.

Can store managers access this record? I'm curious as to what database the manager looked up in the op's story

i kinda suspect theres some personal agenda motivating a manager to go that far. Genuinely i dont go the extra mile for a person as a favour or punitive measure unless theres some personal satisfaction in it.

I go occasionally to a local GW and ive never encountered or seen anything like this before and the guy who runs it is super friendly. I do have a personal belief that nothing is free so if i go and paint or game i spend at least 15-20 notes per visit on paints/books/miniatures then i feel i've paid for my 2-3 hour of painting or gaming fun (i consider it personal therapy).

 BryllCream wrote:

Mythal wrote:

Graphite wrote:
"Can I have a look at all the stuff you have on me as required by the Data Protection Act? Like, RIGHT NOW?"

Checking up on you like that is bananas...

Agreed, what that store manager did was nuts.

As regards your question about the records GW keeps on you, though, you can see them by logging into your GW website account - there's a record of your previous orders and their status, and that's about it. From my order history, I guess a store manager would, rightly, deduce I collect SoB. My local store manager doesn't need to, though, since he already knows I collect SoB.

Can store managers access this record? I'm curious as to what database the manager looked up in the op's story

In UK stores, not directly. They can call customer services with your name, and have them check orders for you (if, say, there's been a delivery mix-up), or they can look over your shoulder when you're using an in-store terminal to place a web-order (since they observe the process anyway to make sure the in-store payment is correct), but there's no direct access to your own account for the shop-floor staff. But that is in the UK - no idea what the case might be where the OP lives - and, as someone said earlier, it might have been his own sales records he accessed; if he only sold two or three Wraithknights, it's an easy process of elimination for him to think about who he remembered bought them.