Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added]

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**Stormonu**

Random thought: Hammerturions with chest-mounted grav guns

If Centurions are just up-gunned, up-sized terminators, is there any reason they couldn't have the same range of weaponry?

**Kangodo**

ClockworkZion wrote:
I'll be trying to transfer all they say into information I can put online so even if people don't listen it'll still be available.

Thank you, thank you!
01/09 => Only one listener to the show and the rest will be waiting here

Maybe that will teach them to withhold that information!

**RandyMcStab**

You can take purple Ultramarines led by Calgar but you can't have Vulcan and Tigurius leading an army with IH chapter tactics (for instance). This seems reasonable and not breaking homebrews, just cheesy combos

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

ClockworkZion wrote:
And more:

Q: Are any of these caveats negative things (like the old 4th edition flaws)?
A: No. The caveat is we have not revealed all the abilities for some chapters.

Q: Is there any clue you can give us on the nature of these caveats?
A: There are many layers to the CTs (no negatives).

Q: Did the points cost change for Power Weapons?
A: Generally the same, per units choices.

Q: Did the points cost change for Power Fists?
A: PF same.

Q: How much do Crusader Squads pay for Power Weapons?
A: 15.

Q: Can the Initiate in a Crusader Squad take a Power Fist?
A: Yes at 25 points.

Q: How does the limit for the extra power weapon in the Crusader squad work. Is it just 1 Initiate or is it 1 per X number of models in the squad?
A: 1 Initiate and then upgrade one to Sword Brother and you can get another.

I am taking any questions people have to get asked. Though if they've already been asked I'll just post the answers instead.

How much do Chapter Masters cost, and besides Orbital Bombardment, do they have any other rules/get to take any war-gear that captains don't?

**Leth**

I think captains were 100 and chapter masters were 125. Not 100% though

**MandalorynOranj**

Are they withholding information about CTs for any other chapthers besides Raven Guard?

**xruslanx**

RandyMcStab wrote:
You can take purple Ultramarines led by Calgar but you can't have Vulcan and Tigurius leading an army with IH chapter tactics (for instance). This seems reasonable and not breaking homebrews, just cheesy combos

that's not what the source says. If explicitly states that successors may NOT use special charectors. Which is why i think it's nonsense, there'd be nothing to gain by essentially forcing paint schemes onto people.

**ClockworkZion**

Leth wrote:I think captains were 100 and chapter masters were 125. Not 100% though

Captains went down 10 points. No word on the new CMs just yet.

MandalorynOranj wrote:Are they withholding information about CTs for any other chapthers besides Raven Guard?

First thing I asked when they said they hadn't told us everything. Waiting for an answer.

**ph34r**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Q: Are any of these caveats negative things (like the old 4th edition flaws)?
A: No. The caveat is we have not revealed all the abilities for some chapters.
I am taking any questions people have to get asked. Though if they've already been asked I'll just post the answers instead.

What are the unrevealed chapter tactics rules? That might serve to assuage a lot of the complaining about UM tactics.

**Vaerros**

I'll be interested in seeing how Shrike finally ends up. It still seems like he's just too expensive.

**MajorWesJanson**

MandalorynOranj wrote:
Are they withholding information about CTs for any other chapthers besides Raven Guard?

IF probably have something missing from their trait as well.

**Veteran Sergeant**

ph34r wrote:What are the unrevealed chapter tactics rules? That might serve to assuage a lot of the complaining about UM tactics.

Whining nonsensically about the Ultramarines is a time honored tradition, dating back at least fifteen years. It won't go away.

**ClockworkZion**

ph34r wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Q: Are any of these caveats negative things (like the old 4th edition flaws)?
A: No. The caveat is we have not revealed all the abilities for some chapters.
I am taking any questions people have to get asked. Though if they've already been asked I'll just post the answers instead.
What are the unrevealed chapter tactics rules? That might serve to assuage a lot of the complaining about UM tactics.

They won't say until 1 Sep. I'm at least trying to find out who is missing stuff though.

Vaerros wrote:
I'll be interested in seeing how Shrike finally ends up. It still seems like he's just too expensive.

So far the only rule I've seen is that he can only Infiltrate with other Jump Infantry units and the limited chunk of Chapter Traits we've seen so far. He personally has no more special rules.

**warhawkstriker**

Can anyone tell me what time preorders will go live at? I'm in the central time zone

**Carnage43**

xruslanx wrote:
there's no way that the new codex will explicitly state that you need the right colour and insignia in order to take special charecters. That would be catastrophically stupid.

Exactly. You have to have the correct chapter tactic to use the character. So you could do CT Ultramarines, painted as the sons of medusa, and use Tigurius.....but you couldn't use Vulkan.

**ph34r**

Carnage43 wrote:
xruslanx wrote:
there's no way that the new codex will explicitly state that you need the right colour and insignia in order to take special charecters. That would be catastrophically stupid.

Exactly. You have to have the correct chapter tactic to use the character. So you could do CT Ultramarines, painted as the sons of medusa, and use Tigurius.....but you couldn't use Vulkan.

That seems most likely, or at least the way it will be played. The successors foot note may be for specifically Crimson Fists being unable to take Imperial Fists characters.

**Spartan089**

Here's hoping that IH get something more, like a named character since I do believe they are the only founding chapter not to get one. Maybe a dreadnaught HQ.

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

Spartan089 wrote:
Here's hoping that IH get something more, like a named character since I do believe they are the only founding chapter not to get one. Maybe a dreadnaught HQ.

If not now, then at least when they get their supplement...

**Lobokai**

ph34r wrote:
Carnage43 wrote:
xruslanx wrote:
there's no way that the new codex will explicitly state that you need the right colour and insignia in order to take special charecters. That would be catastrophically stupid.

Exactly. You have to have the correct chapter tactic to use the character. So you could do CT Ultramarines, painted as the sons of medusa, and use Tigurius.....but you couldn't use Vulkan.
That seems most likely, or at least the way it will be played. The successors foot note may be for specifically Crimson Fists being unable to take Imperial Fists characters.

...and BT. For all UM whine in these threads, the IF get themselves and two successors fleshed out, and in detail.

**MajorWesJanson**

Spartan089 wrote:
Here's hoping that IH get something more, like a named character since I do believe they are the only founding chapter not to get one. Maybe a dreadnaught HQ.

There are no new SCs in the book, especially not Dreadnought HQs. And we can just ally in Bjorn if we really want.

Terminator armor on sergeants though, that would be a nice addition.

**DogofWar1**

MajorWesJanson wrote:

There are no new SCs in the book, especially not Dreadnought HQs. And we can just ally in Bjorn if we really want.

Terminator armor on sergeants though, that would be a nice addition.

It's really too bad they screwed the pooch on Bjorn when updating to 6th, he really needs a couple extra hull points. Alternatively, make him like Sammael in Sableclaw, 14/14/10, (maybe a little better back armor) or something. Either way, allying in Bjorn as the IH HQ would be cool, if not really competitive, sadly :(

**Anpu42**

DogofWar1 wrote:
MajorWesJanson wrote:

There are no new SCs in the book, especially not Dreadnought HQs. And we can just ally in Bjorn if we really want.

Terminator armor on sergeants though, that would be a nice addition.

It's really too bad they screwed the pooch on Bjorn when updating to 6th, he really needs a couple extra hull points. Alternatively, make him like Sammael in Sableclaw, 14/14/10, (maybe a little better back armor) or something. Either way, allying in Bjorn as the IH HQ would be cool, if not really competitive, sadly :(

Bjorn does well with the Las-Cannon or Plasma Cannon as long range fire support, he just can't handle being in the front line anymore.

**Lobokai**

Are centurions S&P. If so, won't they always get the 5 shots with the GravCannon? Unless I'm missing something, why would they have the salvo rule?

**DogofWar1**

Anpu42 wrote:

Bjorn does well with the Las-Cannon or Plasma Cannon as long range fire support, he just can't handle being in the front line anymore.

Yes, but for his points cost you could take two regular dreadnoughts built for fire support. Admittedly, each individual one isn't as good as Bjorn, but you'd have twice the firepower, and two threats for the enemy to deal with instead of one. He's still cool and can be fun, but I don't think he's really worth the premium cost, sadly.

**Anpu42**

Lobukia wrote:
Are centurions S&P. If so, won't they always get the 5 shots with the GravCannon? Unless I'm missing something, why would they have the salvo rule?

In case some other model gets them in the future.

**Lobokai**

Anpu42 wrote:
Lobukia wrote:
Are centurions S&P. If so, won't they always get the 5 shots with the GravCannon? Unless I'm missing something, why would they have the salvo rule?

In case some other model gets them in the future.

I'm hoping MotF does.

**ausYenLoWang**

tvih wrote:
CSM... yeah because they clearly need to have W4 A4 T6 nurgle biker lords running around with daemon weapons and such.

Also, they CAN get 4 wounds and 4 attacks with upgrades. Do show me the loyalist Captain that can have the T5 W4 A4 that a Juggernaut Lord has while doing up to 13 I5 S6 AP2 attacks on the charge?

Furthermore Nurgle Lord with a Palanguin of Nurgle can even have 5 wounds at T5 and 4 base attacks.

They also can get an AP3 torrent flamer. Hell, with the new BL supplement it seems you can even have EW. Not sure on the restrictions, but seems like a pretty damn solid option.

CSM do have valid things to complain about, but Chaos Lords vs SM Captains/Chapter Masters just isn't one of them.

cant mix daemon items from Bl sup and codex. if taking BL sup add x ppm to make them vets, the EW item replaces one weapon you have thus dropping your attacks.
and you are talking best case scenario with a lot of that, saying they can then you need to roll a D66 to get upgrades is rubbish, and the mounts are ok, though the nurgle one is not great and SNP if i remember right, jugger lord is about the best of them though nurgle biker is great too. but then there we have the only 2 that are really worth it.
i think chapter tactics for CSM would have been great and given some of the flavour that many csm players wanted. instead of left out in the cold.

**Davor**

Are the FotM and WAAC players complaining crying already? At least wait till the codex comes out first guys.

I can't have Tirgrus and Vulkan together. WAAAAAAA

Hey wait a minute, why not play Chaos or other armies, and then you will see how have it you have.

I guess, it's true, SM players need the easy button. (Ok not all SM players but the way some people are going on, it sure seems like it.)

**Bulldogging**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
Spartan089 wrote:
Here's hoping that IH get something more, like a named character since I do believe they are the only founding chapter not to get one. Maybe a dreadnaught HQ.

There are no new SCs in the book, especially not Dreadnought HQs. And we can just ally in Bjorn if we really want.

Terminator armor on sergeants though, that would be a nice addition.

I wonder how Forgeworld "named" units will work now. Bray'Arth Ashmantle is the example you made me think of.

**Exergy**

Spartan089 wrote:
Here's hoping that IH get something more, like a named character since I do believe they are the only founding chapter not to get one. Maybe a dreadnaught HQ.

rumor is (many pages back from 40k radio) that IH wont get any characters