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 Deadshot wrote:
From my reading of the blog post, I am under the impression you can now only have special characters with your your chapter trait? Like I can't have Vulkan and Calgar? If that's how it is, how do you have generic chapters with no traits? And what's more I have spent the last year collecting the SCs, so basically WTF?

It sounds like when you make your list, you pick a Chapter Tactic. You can then take any special characters that also have that particular Chapter Tactic.


So if you make a chapter "The Emperor's Merkin", you would take "Chapter Tactics (Iron Hands)". You could then take any special characters that have Chapter Tactics (Iron Ha-... whoops! THERE ARE NONE...

(sorry Iron Hands players).

To finish my example though, say you take "Chapter Tactics (Salamanders)". That would let you take Vulcan, but you couldn't take Kantor or Tigurius.

Again WTF? So basically I can currently take just 1 HQ? Because all mine are SC? Can I just not take a Trait?

"Dreads are basically the same" was a little disheartening. I was hoping for something. Any little thing would have been sufficient.

 Deadshot wrote:
From my reading of the blog post, I am under the impression you can now only have special characters with your your chapter trait? Like I can't have Vulkan and Calgar? If that's how it is, how do you have generic chapters with no traits? And what's more I have spent the last year collecting the SCs, so basically WTF?

You can't take a chapter without traits. That was in the last blog post. Sorry.

That said, from what we have so far, two chapters can ally to each other. So you can have Salamanders, then take Calgar, his 3 squads of Honor Guard and a squad of Tact Marines as allies. They can't share rules or transports but you can bring both in the same army through your allied detachment.

You could also use the SC models as generic options too, as someone pointed out that Vulcan could very easily be a Captain in Artificer Armor with a Storm Shield and Relic Blade. Just make sure you tell your opponent.

Spoke to the manager at my FLGS yesterday about pre ordering some of the SM stuff and he said that he cannot guarantee anything right now because of a phone conversation he had with his GW rep. Essentially the rep has "confirmed" the upcoming release (well duuuuh) but that he couldn't even give him a number predictions because it looks to be that everything is going to be heavily allocated on a store by store basis. Even the Codex.

Looks like the Tau debacle is repeating itself!

 tvih wrote:

Against sergeants sure or characters with AP3 weapons, sure. Against someone with 3+ wounds and a power fist.... you'll just die.

wait, you mean that a Sargent in a tac squad isn't going to be able to kill an HQ unit? or a specialized assault character?say it isn't so... my Sargent can't kill Mephiston!

Don't get me wrong, it may not be the best option for all of your Sargents, but there is a place for it.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:

Nosebiter wrote:
Jeez, talk about limiting what SC's you can take. So if i want Kantor i HAVE to use crimson fists? Not even imperial fists? And diy chapters get nada SC's?

Heaven forbid people do counts as armies?

I run my Red Hunters using Salamanders rules and Vulkan. Same rules, different paint scheme and more stylized models, but everything is still WYSIWYG.

And anyone who wants to throw a fit about me doing that can happily opt to not play against me.

Boo hoo if people can't min max the rules to allow them to run multiple SC's or mix and match SC's and Tactics as they want. Pick a team and roll with it. If anything, DIY chapters have the versatility of being ANY successor chapter if you write the fluff for it and convert up SC's for it.

/rant

On to the 40k Radio notes:
Why would they make tanks which are subpar at the moment more expensive?

And while I see the logic in it, restricting AA tanks to ONLY AA makes them a gamble if you come across someone who isn't running a flyer for some reason(rare in the current game it would seem, but a risk nonetheless).

I do find the Heavy weapons in 5 man units interesting, and could make for some fun combos.

The book needs to drop already so that I can write up a new list and finalize my models. This leak has put my entire army on hold until I find out what is worth keeping.

I hope you enjoyed your ride on that high horse mate, because even the Proper Righteous and Pure way of playing that you favour is humped - SCs are limited to their chapter of origin only. No successors, no counts-as - you want an SC? Get painting, 'cause you'll need a new army.

I Think you may be getting it a bit confused. If I play with the Ultramarine chapter tactics I can use ultra marine characters. It doesn't keep me from painting my army any color and calling them any damn thing I want. Calling my Marneus Calgar anything I want.

It only keeps me from running ultramarines chapter tactics and Cantor together. Or Cantor, with Telion. Or Vulkhan with Cantor etc... If I want to use Cantor I have to use the Imperial fists chapter tactics.

Now I can put together dark angels bikes in a bronze color scheme to go with all my other models and have a full wing of dark angels models that I can play as a dark angels list while still having a full contingent of tacticals and standard marine forces I play as a separate army when I want. I can even paint up space wolves models my chapter colors and play them as all one chapter if I like.

None of you can tell me how to play my army as long as I have models that properly represent what I am playing and the rules are all being used correctly.

Now we just have less two special character armies. Not like many ran both anyway. Especially since the abilities never worked with each other anyway.

 MWHistorian wrote:
"Dreads are basically the same" was a little disheartening. I was hoping for something. Any little thing would have been sufficient.

I was too. I was hoping that "Inspiring Presence" rule was true.

 Killian wrote:
Spoke to the manager at my FLGS yesterday about pre ordering some of the SM stuff and he said that he cannot guarantee anything right now because of a phone conversation he had with his GW rep. Essentially the rep has "confirmed" the upcoming release (well duuuuh) but that he couldn't even give him a number predictions because it looks to be that everything is going to be heavily allocated on a store by store basis. Even the Codex.

Looks like the Tau debacle is repeating itself!

I wouldn't call it a debacle as GW has always prioritized certain stores over others. They go where the money is. That said, I won't say GW can't under-predict sales again, but I would be a little surprised if they did.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
From my reading of the blog post, I am under the impression you can now only have special characters with your your chapter trait? Like I can't have Vulkan and Calgar? If that's how it is, how do you have generic chapters with no traits? And what's more I have spent the last year collecting the SCs, so basically WTF?

You can't take a chapter without traits. That was in the last blog post. Sorry.

That said, from what we have so far, two chapters can ally to each other. So you can have Salamanders, then take Calgar, his 3 squads of Honor Guard and a squad of Tact Marines as allies. They can't share rules or transports but you can bring both in the same army through your allied detachment.

You could also use the SC models as generic options too, as someone pointed out that Vulcan could very easily be a Captain in Artificer Armor with a Storm Shield and Relic Blade. Just make sure you tell your opponent.

This sounds genuinely aweful, not for the least that all my characters are Captains for my chapter (apart from.Lysander my CM). If this turns out to be truth, I may end up just keeping my old codex. Which means I can't play marines.

spamthulhu wrote:
I Think you may be getting it a bit confused. If I play with the Ultramarine chapter tactics I can use ultra marine characters. It doesn't keep me from painting my army any color and calling them any damn thing I want. Calling my Marneus Calgar anything I want.

It only keeps me from running ultramarines chapter tactics and Cantor together. Or Cantor, with Telion. Or Vulkhan with Cantor etc... If I want to use Cantor I have to use the Imperial fists chapter tactics.

From what 40k Radio has claimed, characters are specific to the Chapters they hail from. Maybe this is an error, or misinterpretation of the rule, but it's all we got so far.

spamthulhu wrote:
Now I can put together dark angels bikes in a bronze color scheme to go with all my other models and have a full wing of dark angels models that I can play as a dark angels list while still having a full contingent of tacticals and standard marine forces I play as a separate army when I want. I can even paint up space wolves models my chapter colors and play them as all one chapter if I like.

None of you can tell me how to play my army as long as I have models that properly represent what I am playing and the rules are all being used correctly.

Now we just have less two special character armies. Not like many ran both anyway. Especially since the abilities never worked with each other anyway.

Don't confuse discussing what is being stated as the rules from a source as us condemning your choice in playstyle and model choice. Right now we're missing key details on how those rules work, and we'll have to wait until the podcast to find out more.

Speaking of their pod cast, it actually looks like they decided to move it up. They'll be recording it this Saturday and it'll be available by Monday. I'll do my best to have it online as quick as I can after that. I go back to school Monday (yay college), but as it should be a download I'll be able to start working on it transcribing the rules that night.

Brother Weasel wrote:

 tvih wrote:

Against sergeants sure or characters with AP3 weapons, sure. Against someone with 3+ wounds and a power fist.... you'll just die.

wait, you mean that a Sargent in a tac squad isn't going to be able to kill an HQ unit? or a specialized assault character?say it isn't so... my Sargent can't kill Mephiston!

Don't get me wrong, it may not be the best option for all of your Sargents, but there is a place for it.

I think that quote was in regards to the Emperor's Champion, which is an HQ, and the 40k Radio posts declared him to be a beast in challenges or something, which doesn't look like the case with only two wounds and 2 attacks.

 Deadshot wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
From my reading of the blog post, I am under the impression you can now only have special characters with your your chapter trait? Like I can't have Vulkan and Calgar? If that's how it is, how do you have generic chapters with no traits? And what's more I have spent the last year collecting the SCs, so basically WTF?

You can't take a chapter without traits. That was in the last blog post. Sorry.

That said, from what we have so far, two chapters can ally to each other. So you can have Salamanders, then take Calgar, his 3 squads of Honor Guard and a squad of Tact Marines as allies. They can't share rules or transports but you can bring both in the same army through your allied detachment.

You could also use the SC models as generic options too, as someone pointed out that Vulcan could very easily be a Captain in Artificer Armor with a Storm Shield and Relic Blade. Just make sure you tell your opponent.

This sounds genuinely aweful, not for the least that all my characters are Captains for my chapter (apart from.Lysander my CM). If this turns out to be truth, I may end up just keeping my old codex. Which means I can't play marines.

It's because of the new Chapter Traits. They chucked the old Combat Tactics out the window, gave us Chapter Traits and limited the SCs to armies that use those traits.

They MAY have gone as far as limiting SCs to armies that represent the actual chapters their from, but we haven't gotten the full rule from 40k Radio yet, just some partial "here's how it works" sort of answers which aren't the same thing.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:

Brother Weasel wrote:

 tvih wrote:

Against sergeants sure or characters with AP3 weapons, sure. Against someone with 3+ wounds and a power fist.... you'll just die.

wait, you mean that a Sargent in a tac squad isn't going to be able to kill an HQ unit? or a specialized assault character?say it isn't so... my Sargent can't kill Mephiston!

Don't get me wrong, it may not be the best option for all of your Sargents, but there is a place for it.

I think that quote was in regards to the Emperor's Champion, which is an HQ, and the 40k Radio posts declared him to be a beast in challenges or something, which doesn't look like the case with only two wounds and 2 attacks.

Then i would stand corrected

ClockworkZion wrote:

spamthulhu wrote:
I Think you may be getting it a bit confused. If I play with the Ultramarine chapter tactics I can use ultra marine characters. It doesn't keep me from painting my army any color and calling them any damn thing I want. Calling my Marneus Calgar anything I want.

It only keeps me from running ultramarines chapter tactics and Cantor together. Or Cantor, with Telion. Or Vulkhan with Cantor etc... If I want to use Cantor I have to use the Imperial fists chapter tactics.

From what 40k Radio has claimed, characters are specific to the Chapters they hail from. Maybe this is an error, or misinterpretation of the rule, but it's all we got so far.

spamthulhu wrote:
Now I can put together dark angels bikes in a bronze color scheme to go with all my other models and have a full wing of dark angels models that I can play as a dark angels list while still having a full contingent of tacticals and standard marine forces I play as a separate army when I want. I can even paint up space wolves models my chapter colors and play them as all one chapter if I like.

None of you can tell me how to play my army as long as I have models that properly represent what I am playing and the rules are all being used correctly.

Now we just have less two special character armies. Not like many ran both anyway. Especially since the abilities never worked with each other anyway.

Don't confuse discussing what is being stated as the rules from a source as us condemning your choice in playstyle and model choice. Right now we're missing key details on how those rules work, and we'll have to wait until the podcast to find out more.

Speaking of their pod cast, it actually looks like they decided to move it up. They'll be recording it this Saturday and it'll be available by Monday. I'll do my best to have it online as quick as I can after that. I go back to school Monday (yay college), but as it should be a download I'll be able to start working on it transcribing the rules that night.

Even with what they stated in the podcast there has never been a rule put into print that has stated what color any army needed to be painted. All this rule will do is disrupt the mixing of two SC's in most armies. No one can use ultra marines tactics and Lysander because Lysander is better than Calgar. Now if you want to play Lysander you have to use IF traits and you can't use Kantor at the same time because he is CF and even though they use similar tactics they are different armies. You can play counts as with anything in the game. Hell I can go buy figures from a completely different company and as long as all the models are sensical and are properly armed then I can use the rules to play with them.

This is a hugely misguided leap of interpretation even for an internet forum. We just have new rules that disallow mixing. Not force paint schemes or names.

 tvih wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Didnt they also say he re-rolls hits or something like that?

Re-roll hits and Str 6 ap 2 seems like a pretty beastly challenge fighter.

Against sergeants sure or characters with AP3 weapons, sure. Against someone with 3+ wounds and a power fist.... you'll just die.

Cinematically!

spamthulhu wrote:
Even with what they stated in the podcast there has never been a rule put into print that has stated what color any army needed to be painted. All this rule will do is disrupt the mixing of two SC's in most armies. No one can use ultra marines tactics and Lysander because Lysander is better than Calgar. Now if you want to play Lysander you have to use IF traits and you can't use Cantor at the same time because he is CF and even though they use similar tactics they are different armies. You can play counts as with anything in the game. Hell I can go buy figures from a completely different company and as long as all the models are sensical and are properly armed then I can use the rules to play with them.

This is a hugely misguided leap of interpretation even for an internet forum. We just have new rules that disallow mixing. Not force paint schemes or names.

Before 5th Edition Imperial Guard there was never a FOC inside the FOC (Platoon rules). I think when it comes to GW nothing can really be ruled out.

I personally don't have any opinion either way on this. We'll find out more as we got, and maybe things will be clearer soon.

EDIT: And it's not a huge misguided leap as 40k Radio answered this question yesterday:

Q: To confirm then, successor chapters who use the same Chapter Tactics as their Parent Chapters can't use the SC of their parent chapter, even as a "Count-As"?
A: Can't use "Count-As" because those are specific to the parent chapter.

So don't go blaming the forum for using what we've been told.

 Deadshot wrote:
Again WTF? So basically I can currently take just 1 HQ? Because all mine are SC? Can I just not take a Trait?

AFAIK, you have to pick a Chapter Trait. If your SCs are all Ultramarine SCs, you're golden. If you normally take Tigurius + Lysander (or some other cross chapter options) then no. I mean, you still have all the generic HQ choices like Chapter Masters, Chaplains and the like. The limit is only on Special Characters.

I cannot expressed how annoyed I am by this design. The last codex was all about mixing characters as you wish, which I have done in entirety, but now its complete opposite and I hate it. I will guarentee that Iill either just play without them or not play marines, as I would need the old dex which the gaming store (a GW) won't allow.

So congrats GW, lost another customer. Maybe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 streamdragon wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Again WTF? So basically I can currently take just 1 HQ? Because all mine are SC? Can I just not take a Trait?

AFAIK, you have to pick a Chapter Trait. If your SCs are all Ultramarine SCs, you're golden. If you normally take Tigurius + Lysander (or some other cross chapter options) then no. I mean, you still have all the generic HQ choices like Chapter Masters, Chaplains and the like. The limit is only on Special Characters.

I have Calgar, Kantor, Vulkan, Shrike, Lysander and Sicarius and was about to buy Cassius, Tiguirius and a Bike for Khan.

I don't see this "no successor special characters" thing getting enforced outside an actual GW store.

Because its so insanely stupid.

How is it stupid? The Chapters are being treated as separate armies. It is no different to how SW, BA, and DA can't mix SCs.

 Deadshot wrote:
I cannot expressed how annoyed I am by this design. The last codex was all about mixing characters as you wish, which I have done in entirety, but now its complete opposite and I hate it. I will guarentee that Iill either just play without them or not play marines, as I would need the old dex which the gaming store (a GW) won't allow.

So congrats GW, lost another customer. Maybe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 streamdragon wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Again WTF? So basically I can currently take just 1 HQ? Because all mine are SC? Can I just not take a Trait?

AFAIK, you have to pick a Chapter Trait. If your SCs are all Ultramarine SCs, you're golden. If you normally take Tigurius + Lysander (or some other cross chapter options) then no. I mean, you still have all the generic HQ choices like Chapter Masters, Chaplains and the like. The limit is only on Special Characters.

I have Calgar, Kantor, Vulkan, Shrike, Lysander and Sicarius and was about to buy Cassius, Tiguirius and a Bike for Khan.

I guess I'm not understanding the issue.

In the current codex, if you have multiple special characters only one of them gets to keep their Chapter Tactics rule. If you have both Shrike and Vulcan, and you choose to use Vulcan's Chapter Tactics, even Shrike loses his version of Chapter Tactics and replaces it with Vulkan's. Have I been doing this wrong? Because I don't think I've been doing it wrong, I'm pretty sure the FAQ spells that out. Beyond their unique equipment (which can be pseudo recreated for normal chapter masters in many cases), and possibly a few special rules, this shouldn't be something that breaks an entire army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SickSix wrote:
I don't see this "no successor special characters" thing getting enforced outside an actual GW store.

Because its so insanely stupid.

Again, I think that's a bit of miscommunication. Successor chapters should have the same Chapter Tactics as their parent chapter, so there should be no reason that they can't take the parent chapter's special characters (who would have an identical version of Chapter Tactics).

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
How is it stupid? The Chapters are being treated as separate armies. It is no different to how SW, BA, and DA can't mix SCs.

Because I can paint my army any way I want sit down with all the proper figures and just TELL you I am playing ultra marines when I am actually playing the jelly bean princess successor chapter.

As far as using sc's from different books, you could never do that before. But there are no restrictions in the Blood angels, space wolves, dark angels books that disallow you to use their special characters in successors. This would be an unprecedented change in the Space marine army books. Never have they made any effort to restrict SC's to their primary chapter ever.

I doesn't break my entire army, just prevents me taking more tjan 1 of my HQs at a time, as I have no generics.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
How is it stupid? The Chapters are being treated as separate armies. It is no different to how SW, BA, and DA can't mix SCs.

Oh, I am sorry I must have missed the part in my DA codex that says you can't field Asmodai or Belial in a Angels of Absolution, or Guardians of the Covenant army. Could you point that out to me?

spamthulhu wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
How is it stupid? The Chapters are being treated as separate armies. It is no different to how SW, BA, and DA can't mix SCs.

Because I can paint my army any way I want sit down with all the proper figures and just TELL you I am playing ultra marines when I am actually playing the jelly bean princess successor chapter.

As far as using sc's from different books, you could never do that before. But there are no restrictions in the Blood angels, space wolves, dark angels books that disallow you to use their special characters in successors. This would be an unprecedented change in the Space marine army books. Never have they made any effort to restrict SC's to their primary chapter ever.

Just because GW has never done something doesn't mean they can't or won't do it though.

EDIT: And because it looks like it was missed, this is not a miscommunication on the forum's part. Here's the Q&A from 40k Radio verbatim:

Q: To confirm then, successor chapters who use the same Chapter Tactics as their Parent Chapters can't use the SC of their parent chapter, even as a "Count-As"?
A: Can't use "Count-As" because those are specific to the parent chapter.

spamthulhu wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
How is it stupid? The Chapters are being treated as separate armies. It is no different to how SW, BA, and DA can't mix SCs.

Because I can paint my army any way I want sit down with all the proper figures and just TELL you I am playing ultra marines when I am actually playing the jelly bean princess successor chapter.

As far as using sc's from different books, you could never do that before. But there are no restrictions in the Blood angels, space wolves, dark angels books that disallow you to use their special characters in successors. This would be an unprecedented change in the Space marine army books. Never have they made any effort to restrict SC's to their primary chapter ever.

What has the colour of your models got to do with anything? You have saying this to several posters on this thread, but it really is irrelevant. The Chapter Tactics rule has nothing to do with the colours of your models.

As for the SC change, just because it is unprecedented doesn't mean it is stupid automatically. They are treating the Chapters the same way they treat separate armies, and the mechanic for how separate armies are treated is not unprecedented, the only thing unprecendented here is how they have been given to us, i.e. all in one book.

 SickSix wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
How is it stupid? The Chapters are being treated as separate armies. It is no different to how SW, BA, and DA can't mix SCs.

Oh, I am sorry I must have missed the part in my DA codex that says you can't field Asmodai or Belial in a Angels of Absolution, or Guardians of the Covenant army. Could you point that out to me?

Sorry what? Your argument is that you can take two DA characters, two characters that are in the same chapter, in a DA army, which represents one chapter. How is that in any way contradictory to my post? I am saying Blood Angels can't take Space Wolves SCs for instance, or Dark Angels can't take Blood Angels SCs, because they are not the same chapter. This is no different to what is being done with the Chapters in the new Codex: Space Marines.

ClockworkZion wrote:

spamthulhu wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
How is it stupid? The Chapters are being treated as separate armies. It is no different to how SW, BA, and DA can't mix SCs.

Because I can paint my army any way I want sit down with all the proper figures and just TELL you I am playing ultra marines when I am actually playing the jelly bean princess successor chapter.

As far as using sc's from different books, you could never do that before. But there are no restrictions in the Blood angels, space wolves, dark angels books that disallow you to use their special characters in successors. This would be an unprecedented change in the Space marine army books. Never have they made any effort to restrict SC's to their primary chapter ever.

Just because GW has never done something doesn't mean they can't or won't do it though.

EDIT: And because it looks like it was missed, this is not a miscommunication on the forum's part. Here's the Q&A from 40k Radio verbatim:

Q: To confirm then, successor chapters who use the same Chapter Tactics as their Parent Chapters can't use the SC of their parent chapter, even as a "Count-As"?
A: Can't use "Count-As" because those are specific to the parent chapter.

Would be easy to clear up if someone would ask them if there is a rule in the book that requires someone to paint thier Ultramarines Blue in order for them to be Ultramarines. I think that is what it is coming down too. I might paint them red and say they are Ultramarines.

 streamdragon wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
From my reading of the blog post, I am under the impression you can now only have special characters with your your chapter trait? Like I can't have Vulkan and Calgar? If that's how it is, how do you have generic chapters with no traits? And what's more I have spent the last year collecting the SCs, so basically WTF?

It sounds like when you make your list, you pick a Chapter Tactic. You can then take any special characters that also have that particular Chapter Tactic.


So if you make a chapter "The Emperor's Merkin", you would take "Chapter Tactics (Iron Hands)". You could then take any special characters that have Chapter Tactics (Iron Ha-... whoops! THERE ARE NONE...

(sorry Iron Hands players).

@GW SON OF A BITCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH..........!!!!!!!!

And the hits just keep on coming....

SickSix wrote:I don't see this "no successor special characters" thing getting enforced outside an actual GW store.

Because its so insanely stupid.

Godless-Mimicry wrote:How is it stupid? The Chapters are being treated as separate armies. It is no different to how SW, BA, and DA can't mix SCs.

Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Spoiler:

spamthulhu wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
How is it stupid? The Chapters are being treated as separate armies. It is no different to how SW, BA, and DA can't mix SCs.

Because I can paint my army any way I want sit down with all the proper figures and just TELL you I am playing ultra marines when I am actually playing the jelly bean princess successor chapter.

As far as using sc's from different books, you could never do that before. But there are no restrictions in the Blood angels, space wolves, dark angels books that disallow you to use their special characters in successors. This would be an unprecedented change in the Space marine army books. Never have they made any effort to restrict SC's to their primary chapter ever.

What has the colour of your models got to do with anything? You have saying this to several posters on this thread, but it really is irrelevant. The Chapter Tactics rule has nothing to do with the colours of your models.

As for the SC change, just because it is unprecedented doesn't mean it is stupid automatically. They are treating the Chapters the same way they treat separate armies, and the mechanic for how separate armies are treated is not unprecedented, the only thing unprecendented here is how they have been given to us, i.e. all in one book.

 SickSix wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
How is it stupid? The Chapters are being treated as separate armies. It is no different to how SW, BA, and DA can't mix SCs.

Oh, I am sorry I must have missed the part in my DA codex that says you can't field Asmodai or Belial in a Angels of Absolution, or Guardians of the Covenant army. Could you point that out to me?

Sorry what? Your argument is that you can take two DA characters, two characters that are in the same chapter, in a DA army, which represents one chapter. How is that in any way contradictory to my post? I am saying Blood Angels can't take Space Wolves SCs for instance, or Dark Angels can't take Blood Angels SCs, because they are not the same chapter. This is no different to what is being done with the Chapters in the new Codex: Space Marines.

You apparently failed actually reading my posts. What part of successor did you not get? You have never been able to mix SC of different codex. You were also never restricted from using BA, SW, UM, or DA characters in a SUCCESSOR chapter using the rules from whatever parent chapter codex.

That is what 40k radio is now saying. That you CANNOT use parent chapter SC in SUCCESSOR chapters, EVEN IF you are using the parent chapters Chapter Traits. How is that not insanely stupid?

Shamanlord1961 wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

spamthulhu wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
How is it stupid? The Chapters are being treated as separate armies. It is no different to how SW, BA, and DA can't mix SCs.

Because I can paint my army any way I want sit down with all the proper figures and just TELL you I am playing ultra marines when I am actually playing the jelly bean princess successor chapter.

As far as using sc's from different books, you could never do that before. But there are no restrictions in the Blood angels, space wolves, dark angels books that disallow you to use their special characters in successors. This would be an unprecedented change in the Space marine army books. Never have they made any effort to restrict SC's to their primary chapter ever.

Just because GW has never done something doesn't mean they can't or won't do it though.

EDIT: And because it looks like it was missed, this is not a miscommunication on the forum's part. Here's the Q&A from 40k Radio verbatim:

Q: To confirm then, successor chapters who use the same Chapter Tactics as their Parent Chapters can't use the SC of their parent chapter, even as a "Count-As"?
A: Can't use "Count-As" because those are specific to the parent chapter.

Would be easy to clear up if someone would ask them if there is a rule in the book that requires someone to paint thier Ultramarines Blue in order for them to be Ultramarines. I think that is what it is coming down too. I might paint them red and say they are Ultramarines.

Someone did. We're waiting for a response. When I asked for the verbatim rule they said to wait for the podcast.