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2013/08/23 18:10:14
Subject: Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
DogofWar1 wrote: If GW wants me to play only with models painted the colors of the chapter, they better start selling pre-painted models, because ain't nobody got time for dat.
"ain't nobody"....so you're actually saying, through your double negative there, that everyone has time to paint. Got that!
2013/08/23 18:16:30
Subject: Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
My image of black Templars has always been Mr T. For the record its nothing to do with skin colour.
Generally my vision is "I pity the fool who defies my Emprah! I pity the fool, I do I do! I pity the fool who is a Xenos scum!"
In direct relationto the eschewing cover.
The scene is Armeggeddon. BA and BT are working a joint strike force, hding behind a wall while Lootas blast away. BaA begins a firefight from behind the wall. Mr Templar: "Ain't no one got time for that fool! Eat snickers, get some Nutz! Aaarrruuumm!"
I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
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Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
2013/08/23 18:16:36
Subject: Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
DogofWar1 wrote: If GW wants me to play only with models painted the colors of the chapter, they better start selling pre-painted models, because ain't nobody got time for dat.
"ain't nobody"....so you're actually saying, through your double negative there, that everyone has time to paint. Got that!
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or you're serious and don't realize he's quoting a popular meme.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/23 18:21:12
Games Workshop: Ruining Chaos Space Marines since 2007
First they raised prices on the Eldar, and I did not speak out because I did not play Eldar.
Then, they raised prices on the Orks, and I did not speak out because I did not play Orks.
Then, they raised prices on the Nids, and I did not speak out because I did not play Nids.
Then, they raised prices on the Marines, and there was nobody to speak out for me.
2013/08/23 18:29:01
Subject: Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
DogofWar1 wrote: If GW wants me to play only with models painted the colors of the chapter, they better start selling pre-painted models, because ain't nobody got time for dat.
"ain't nobody"....so you're actually saying, through your double negative there, that everyone has time to paint. Got that!
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or you're serious and don't realize he's quoting a popular meme.
Sarcastic, but I didn't know that it was a meme.
2013/08/23 18:36:36
Subject: Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
DogofWar1 wrote: If GW wants me to play only with models painted the colors of the chapter, they better start selling pre-painted models, because ain't nobody got time for dat.
"ain't nobody"....so you're actually saying, through your double negative there, that everyone has time to paint. Got that!
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or you're serious and don't realize he's quoting a popular meme.
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
DogofWar1 wrote: If GW wants me to play only with models painted the colors of the chapter, they better start selling pre-painted models, because ain't nobody got time for dat.
"ain't nobody"....so you're actually saying, through your double negative there, that everyone has time to paint. Got that!
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or you're serious and don't realize he's quoting a popular meme.
I think we are getting a bit side tracked, point is I like a lot of what I'm hearing regarding the new codex, but the emperor will have to rise from the golden throne before someone tells me how I have to play my marines.
Games Workshop: Ruining Chaos Space Marines since 2007
First they raised prices on the Eldar, and I did not speak out because I did not play Eldar.
Then, they raised prices on the Orks, and I did not speak out because I did not play Orks.
Then, they raised prices on the Nids, and I did not speak out because I did not play Nids.
Then, they raised prices on the Marines, and there was nobody to speak out for me.
2013/08/23 19:00:12
Subject: Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
They invented the Land Raider Crusader to be able to provide covering fire while advancing on the enemy safely, directly disproving your statement.
Actually, it proves nothing than the fact that you don't really see what the Land Raider Crusader represents.
It's nothing more than a short ranged assault transport. The provide no covering fire whatsoever, lacking the Land Raider's long range firepower. It's designed to get up really close, then shoot a bunch of ammunition off while the Doritos inside charge out. This isn't really the concept of covering fires in the traditional military sense. It's simply a short range suppression instrument. The Crusader itself lacks any ability to engage enemy armor or deal with entrenched threats on the approach. The philosophy behind the LRC is that is is hopefully tough enough to get up close.
Ultimately, the LRC doesn't demonstrate any grasp of combined arms doctrine. It was just an adaptation for the Black Templars to stuff more dudes into a Land Raider. The classic LR is superior in almost every way, in terms of assault transport design. It has a strong, intermediate range anti-armor capability, as well the ability to provide suppressive anti-infantry firepower at both close to medium range. The LRC is a specialized close assault platform, nothing more.Understandably, the BTs own regular LRs too. But the idea that the LRC was some kind of demonstration that they were able to adequately replicate the maneuver warfare doctrines of the Codex Astartes is silly. If combat just always occurred right up close, that might make a difference. But on an actual battlefield, you have to adapt to conditions that might not conform to your ideal. In that case, the Black Templars, under their old list rules, stand at a disadvantage due to their lack of flexibility.
You said the Templars lacked covering fire. The LRC is a line-breaker tank, built for the sole purpouse of keeping the enemy down with suppressive fire while it delivers the unit inside into the fray. You generally don't use anti-tank weapons for suppressive fire last time I looked. Even if we're not counting that they've still got Predators, Stormtalons, Stormravens and Dreadnoughts that support their armoured spearheads. In fact, the combination of Land Speeders, Bikes and armoured elements described on page 9 of Codex: Black Templars contradict the claim that the Templars are somehow inferior at manouvre warfare, as the armoured spearhead is listed as one of two preferred ways of fighting of the Templars. In fact, the very core of the Black Templars preferred combat tactics match the overall modus operandi of the Space Marines in general and manouvre warfare in particular; Drop Pod assaults to strike at the enemy lines of command before they can react is pretty much a textbook example of manouvre warfare.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: What happens when Black Templars find themselves in a situation where suddenly they can't drop assault, or ride in Land Raiders? What do they do?
Hit and run attacks. They won the space war for Armageddon with it. Or just do something else that they're perfectly capable of but don't specialize in, just as the White Scars use Terminators when they have to, or the Ultramarines create Tyranic War Veteran Squads. You don't have to be completely incompetent in one field just because you specialize in another. They're still Astartes.
SickSix wrote: As much as I would love more BA chaplains (they are the best models in the game after all), not every marine codex needs to have exactly the same stuff.
In that case the Blood Angels can give us back our Masters of Sanctity that we have in our current Codex, thank you.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/23 19:13:41
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2013/08/23 19:12:30
Subject: Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
Q: Which Chapters are we missing Chapter Tactics on?
A: You have all of them, but not the full extent of the rules (Zion's Notes: I'm waiting to get a little clarification on this)
Q: Could you give us a summary on how this SC restriction works exactly?
A: The SC only work for their Chapter. For example, Telion can only be in an Ultramarines army.
Q: Is there a way to take SCs in another army (for example, a homebrew or in an army that doesn't have Chapter Tactics?).
A: The only way that can happen is if they play Ultras and use their CT, but you paint them Blood Ravens. You have to match the SC to the CT.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So there we go. You CAN do "count-as" with oddly colored Marines just fine. The SCs are restricted to their Chapter Tactics specifically is all. Can we all calm down now?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/23 19:13:47
2013/08/23 19:19:51
Subject: Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
Q: Is there a way to take SCs in another army (for example, a homebrew or in an army that doesn't have Chapter Tactics?).
A: The only way that can happen is if they play Ultras and use their CT, but you paint them Blood Ravens. You have to match the SC to the CT.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So there we go. You CAN do "count-as" with oddly colored Marines just fine. The SCs are restricted to their Chapter Tactics specifically is all. Can we all calm down now?
Please, all you people who lack the imagination to have figured this out before, please be kind enough to now offer your apologies for wasting so much time pretending that this would ever work any other way.
2013/08/23 19:29:51
Subject: Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
ClockworkZion wrote:
Q: Is there a way to take SCs in another army (for example, a homebrew or in an army that doesn't have Chapter Tactics?).
A: The only way that can happen is if they play Ultras and use their CT, but you paint them Blood Ravens. You have to match the SC to the CT.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So there we go. You CAN do "count-as" with oddly colored Marines just fine. The SCs are restricted to their Chapter Tactics specifically is all. Can we all calm down now?
It's fairly hilarious that people thought that it was any other way to begin with, all because of one awkwardly worded response to a question.
Especially since before that answer, they had said that SCs were linked to CTs, not to paint schemes, lol.
Back to your regularly scheduled program.
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
Q: Is there a way to take SCs in another army (for example, a homebrew or in an army that doesn't have Chapter Tactics?).
A: The only way that can happen is if they play Ultras and use their CT, but you paint them Blood Ravens. You have to match the SC to the CT.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So there we go. You CAN do "count-as" with oddly colored Marines just fine. The SCs are restricted to their Chapter Tactics specifically is all. Can we all calm down now?
Please, all you people who lack the imagination to have figured this out before, please be kind enough to now offer your apologies for wasting so much time pretending that this would ever work any other way.
No. No one needs to apologize for discussing the rumors as they were given to us. If anything the people who were flying off the handle and acting like they were being attacked and even launching accusations of how "we were misinterpreting the rumors" and so on should be apologizing for wearing their bums as hats instead of waiting for all the facts to come in. No one should be faulted for only dealing with the facts on hand over the facts that may exist.
ClockworkZion wrote:
Q: Is there a way to take SCs in another army (for example, a homebrew or in an army that doesn't have Chapter Tactics?).
A: The only way that can happen is if they play Ultras and use their CT, but you paint them Blood Ravens. You have to match the SC to the CT.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So there we go. You CAN do "count-as" with oddly colored Marines just fine. The SCs are restricted to their Chapter Tactics specifically is all. Can we all calm down now?
It's fairly hilarious that people thought that it was any other way to begin with, all because of one awkwardly worded response to a question.
Especially since before that answer, they had said that SCs were linked to CTs, not to paint schemes, lol.
Back to your regularly scheduled program.
Well Chapter Tactics AND Chapters. They specify in the second question that they SCs are linked to their chapters.
Frankly they need to work on their communication skills because there have been a few problems like this that have come up because of poorly worded answers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Got a little clarification on the first question:
Q: Which Chapters are we missing Chapter Tactics on?
A: You have all of them, but not the full extent of the rules (Zion's Notes: I'm waiting to get a little clarification on this)
CLARIFICATION:RG and Ultras. mostly about how they work.
That's right, we don't have the full story on the UM Chapter Tactics.
I kind of want to guess perhaps it's once per game?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/23 19:42:51
2013/08/23 19:55:12
Subject: Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
They invented the Land Raider Crusader to be able to provide covering fire while advancing on the enemy safely, directly disproving your statement.
Actually, it proves nothing than the fact that you don't really see what the Land Raider Crusader represents.
It's nothing more than a short ranged assault transport. The provide no covering fire whatsoever, lacking the Land Raider's long range firepower. It's designed to get up really close, then shoot a bunch of ammunition off while the Doritos inside charge out. This isn't really the concept of covering fires in the traditional military sense. It's simply a short range suppression instrument. The Crusader itself lacks any ability to engage enemy armor or deal with entrenched threats on the approach. The philosophy behind the LRC is that is is hopefully tough enough to get up close.
Ultimately, the LRC doesn't demonstrate any grasp of combined arms doctrine. It was just an adaptation for the Black Templars to stuff more dudes into a Land Raider. The classic LR is superior in almost every way, in terms of assault transport design. It has a strong, intermediate range anti-armor capability, as well the ability to provide suppressive anti-infantry firepower at both close to medium range. The LRC is a specialized close assault platform, nothing more.Understandably, the BTs own regular LRs too. But the idea that the LRC was some kind of demonstration that they were able to adequately replicate the maneuver warfare doctrines of the Codex Astartes is silly. If combat just always occurred right up close, that might make a difference. But on an actual battlefield, you have to adapt to conditions that might not conform to your ideal. In that case, the Black Templars, under their old list rules, stand at a disadvantage due to their lack of flexibility.
You said the Templars lacked covering fire. The LRC is a line-breaker tank, built for the sole purpouse of keeping the enemy down with suppressive fire while it delivers the unit inside into the fray. You generally don't use anti-tank weapons for suppressive fire last time I looked. Even if we're not counting that they've still got Predators, Stormtalons, Stormravens and Dreadnoughts that support their armoured spearheads. In fact, the combination of Land Speeders, Bikes and armoured elements described on page 9 of Codex: Black Templars contradict the claim that the Templars are somehow inferior at manouvre warfare, as the armoured spearhead is listed as one of two preferred ways of fighting of the Templars. In fact, the very core of the Black Templars preferred combat tactics match the overall modus operandi of the Space Marines in general and manouvre warfare in particular; Drop Pod assaults to strike at the enemy lines of command before they can react is pretty much a textbook example of manouvre warfare.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: What happens when Black Templars find themselves in a situation where suddenly they can't drop assault, or ride in Land Raiders? What do they do?
Hit and run attacks. They won the space war for Armageddon with it. Or just do something else that they're perfectly capable of but don't specialize in, just as the White Scars use Terminators when they have to, or the Ultramarines create Tyranic War Veteran Squads. You don't have to be completely incompetent in one field just because you specialize in another. They're still Astartes.
SickSix wrote: As much as I would love more BA chaplains (they are the best models in the game after all), not every marine codex needs to have exactly the same stuff.
In that case the Blood Angels can give us back our Masters of Sanctity that we have in our current Codex, thank you.
Oops, when I said I would love more 'BA' chaplains, I meant 'Bad Ass', as in 3W 3A chaplains.
JSF wrote:... this is really quite an audacious move by GW, throwing out any pretext that this is a game and that its customers exist to do anything other than buy their overpriced products for the sake of it. The naked arrogance, greed and contempt for their audience is shocking.
= Epic First Post.
2013/08/23 20:04:49
Subject: Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
Got a little clarification on the first question:
Q: Which Chapters are we missing Chapter Tactics on?
A: You have all of them, but not the full extent of the rules (Zion's Notes: I'm waiting to get a little clarification on this)
CLARIFICATION:RG and Ultras. mostly about how they work.
That's right, we don't have the full story on the UM Chapter Tactics.
I kind of want to guess perhaps it's once per game?
That was my guess the first time it was mentioned (I think around page 132 I first posted it). Possibly even as a bubble effect from a Captain/CM. Perhaps having bigger bubble/multiple effect from CM? Blanket rerolls to hit for tactical all the time was NEVER going to happen.
I seriously hope you get nerfed, no because I think marines are op or anything, I just don't like a lot of the players. In my experience, marine chapters spent all last edition beating xeno's into the ground, and when they finally get some love, they're cheap and OP. I see a lot of bitching about new xeno stuff, I think because there no more auto win button against the new ones. A lot of marine players would rather believe new xeno's are OP then learn to play game.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/23 20:16:01
2013/08/23 20:12:27
Subject: Re:Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
DufenDorgen wrote: I seriously hope you get nerfed. Not because I think marines are OP or anything, but because I don't like a lot of people that play marine chapters. I could just be jaded from my own personal experience but imps spend all last edition stomping xeno's into the ground and when they finally get some love, everything they have is cheap and op.
As a Black Templars player, I'm going to simply mention Black Templars and how much that shoots a hole in the justification of your hopes.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2013/08/23 20:19:04
Subject: Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
Especially since before that answer, they had said that SCs were linked to CTs, not to paint schemes, lol.
Yes, but didn't they also say that Kantor and Lysander cannot be in same army without allying? Which is weird. Game-wise IF and CF are the same chapter as they have the same chapter tactic. And if you can ally with a chapter with another chapter with identical chapter tactic, then it effectively means just extra FO slots.
DufenDorgen wrote: I seriously hope you get nerfed. Not because I think marines are OP or anything, but because I don't like a lot of people that play marine chapters. I could just be jaded from my own personal experience but imps spend all last edition stomping xeno's into the ground and when they finally get some love, everything they have is cheap and op.
As a Black Templars player, I'm going to simply mention Black Templars and how much that shoots a hole in the justification of your hopes.
I feel you BT. I know thine kamf, and I'm actually happy for you. Even if the new codex nerfs Ultra marines, your army can only get better. I also have nothing specifically against vanilla marine players, we don't actually have on in our group.
Though I'm pretty mad about loyally playing Farsight enclave last edition dreaming of a new codex, when I finally get one no one wants to play me because "Doubling up on plasma is the cheapest thing in warhammer." And when I stop doubling up on any weapon, over watch is cheap. And when I give up my usr, markerlights are dumb. There is no end and when battle suits become troops, there is hopelessness. All because I won't roll over and die. (Not just my friends, play at game shops too, all the same hate)
2013/08/23 20:29:18
Subject: Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
Especially since before that answer, they had said that SCs were linked to CTs, not to paint schemes, lol.
Yes, but didn't they also say that Kantor and Lysander cannot be in same army without allying? Which is weird. Game-wise IF and CF are the same chapter as they have the same chapter tactic. And if you can ally with a chapter with another chapter with identical chapter tactic, then it effectively means just extra FO slots.
Likely Crimson Fists has a separate CT that just says something like 'uses IF CT' or something like that.
Though I'm pretty mad about loyally playing Farsight enclave last edition dreaming of a new codex, when I finally get one no one wants to play me because "Doubling up on plasma is the cheapest thing in warhammer." And when I stop doubling up on any weapon, over watch is cheap. And when I give up my usr, markerlights are dumb. There is no end and when battle suits become troops, there is hopelessness. All because I won't roll over and die. (Not just my friends, play at game shops too, all the same hate)
And yet here you are doing the same to C:SM players. Why?
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2013/08/23 20:38:46
Subject: Re:Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
Though I'm pretty mad about loyally playing Farsight enclave last edition dreaming of a new codex, when I finally get one no one wants to play me because "Doubling up on plasma is the cheapest thing in warhammer." And when I stop doubling up on any weapon, over watch is cheap. And when I give up my usr, markerlights are dumb. There is no end and when battle suits become troops, there is hopelessness. All because I won't roll over and die. (Not just my friends, play at game shops too, all the same hate)
And yet here you are doing the same to C:SM players. Why?
Nope not at all, already said I don't think your codex's are cheap. I'm complaining about the mentalities marine players have about other armies. I think marines are balanced, the problem I had was that xeno's were not. Now that GW is balancing all the codex's, I think a lot of marine players are surprised and upset that they have to learn to play the game better. I want marines to get nerfed so they know how it feels, not so i can compete. Again, BT doesn't apply, neither does SoB.
2013/08/23 20:41:04
Subject: Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
So you played a really old army with a codex that was not great in its first iteration. You built up years of repressed anger and frustration by getting beat down by almost any army out there and now that you have a good codex with some really strong options you want everyone to stay weaker than you.
That sounds like a fair trade.
2013/08/23 20:47:26
Subject: Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
I'm just happy my dark Angels are getting some new toys, yeah they have to be allied in, but who cares, it's new stuff, deathwing painted centurions, the hunter turret on a land speeder vengeance, New sternguard to thieve bits off for my veterans, vanguard look boring to me, all of it will be in my army somehow 0
2013/08/23 20:48:40
Subject: Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
spamthulhu wrote: So you played a really old army with a codex that was not great in its first iteration. You built up years of repressed anger and frustration by getting beat down by almost any army out there and now that you have a good codex with some really strong options you want everyone to stay weaker than you.
That sounds like a fair trade.
No, this is the third time I'm saying this: Marines aren't cheap. Xeno's used to get hammered. Now that Xeno's have a fighting chance, all people can do is complain about anything they get is cheap and op. My gripe is with those marine players that relied on the forgiveness of marine armies to win games instead of playing well. And how unfair it is to bitch every time you lose a squad to a new xeno's codex. I want you to get nerfed because I want you to know how it feels to actually be nerfed. Then maybe these people would understand what they are bitching about.
2013/08/23 20:53:33
Subject: Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
spamthulhu wrote: So you played a really old army with a codex that was not great in its first iteration. You built up years of repressed anger and frustration by getting beat down by almost any army out there and now that you have a good codex with some really strong options you want everyone to stay weaker than you.
That sounds like a fair trade.
No, this is the third time I'm saying this: Marines aren't cheap. Xeno's used to get hammered. Now that Xeno's have a fighting chance, all people can do is complain about anything they get is cheap and op. My gripe is with those marine players that relied on the forgiveness of marine armies to win games instead of playing well. And how unfair it is to bitch every time you lose a squad to a new xeno's codex. I want you to get nerfed because I want you to know how it feels to actually be nerfed. Then maybe these people would understand what they are bitching about.
Thank you for telling me that I don't know how to play well. That makes me feel really good right here *points to heart*. I started with marines because I liked the idea of Drunken Werewolf Space Vikings (that's how Space Wolves were sold to me). I didn't win every game, but I did okay with my Ultramarines (switched to them after being accused of being a "dirty bandwagoner"). I've yet to win a game with my new wolves that I'm building in the prevalance of these Xenos armies. I'd like my tactical marines to be cheaper points wise, that way I can probably survive more than a turn or two of shooting with my invalidated 3+ armor since plasma, melta, las, etc... is so fething prominent in this edition.
How about instead of saying that you want marine players to get nerfed so we can know your pain (blah blah blah), we all wish for a fething balanced game so people can enjoy playing space MAN DOLLIES without anyone getting butt hurt over cheese and OP options.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/23 20:54:52
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2013/08/23 21:00:27
Subject: Re:Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 22-08-2013 - 40k Radio Q&A added]
Nope not at all, already said I don't think your codex's are cheap. I'm complaining about the mentalities marine players have about other armies. I think marines are balanced, the problem I had was that xeno's were not. Now that GW is balancing all the codex's, I think a lot of marine players are surprised and upset that they have to learn to play the game better. I want marines to get nerfed so they know how it feels, not so i can compete. Again, BT doesn't apply, neither does SoB.
Yes, I am a marines player and I am very surprised by the reaction. Any other codex that gets an undate the response by the majority of the players is yes! Marine players on the other hand feel entitled to have things their way, I want it all. I want to use every special character, I want to use this chapter tactic with this character, the new rules makes my fluff invalid. I know people fear change but where is the excitement, I cant wait to get my Imperial Fist limited edition codex I like the rule changes but these other players are killing my vibe.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/23 21:01:48
where is the excitement, I cant wait to get my Imperial Fist limited edition codex I like the rule changes but these other players are killing my vibe.