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 Kain wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
While I firmly believe that sisters will never see a true update (please prove me wrong GW). I would like for them to lose the sleeves and robes all together.

Make them stop looking like short, squat, Dark Angels. A complete overhaul similar to Dark Eldar might actually save the army. Keep the iconography, but readjust the armor, get some new helmets, and adjust their scale (although I think Marines could use a scale adjustment too, to be fair).

But more importantly than any of that. GW needs to hire some sculptors THAT CAN MAKE GOOD FEMALE FACES! Seriously the current sisters look like cross-dressers.

You could have them all wear face concealing helmets, yes even the special characters.

But I like painting faces?

Locrian wrote:Sounds like I'm in the minority here, but I love the SOB models.

You are not alone.

Mr.Church13 wrote:Make them stop looking like short, squat, Dark Angels. A complete overhaul similar to Dark Eldar might actually save the army. Keep the iconography, but readjust the armor, get some new helmets, and adjust their scale (although I think Marines could use a scale adjustment too, to be fair).

My aforementioned huge scepticism to any visual changes aside, how would you have them look, exactly? If you say that it's the robes that make them look like Dark Angels, getting rid of them should obviously make them look like Vanilla Marines. And what sort of armour adjustments? Making them more blocky? Kasrkin already went there.

Their current look clearly separates them from any of the other models; I think any sort of drastic change would just make them more similar to something that is already there.
Besides, they are supposed to be a weird crossover between military efficiency and impractical religious motif. Changing the visuals comes with a grave threat to sacrificing this aspect of their theme, I think.

Mr.Church13 wrote:But more importantly than any of that. GW needs to hire some sculptors THAT CAN MAKE GOOD FEMALE FACES!

Oh Emperor, yes. And it's not only the Sisters...

I think if they just had a new Inquisitors codex with the Sisters in it, that would be the ticket. I myself have no desire for a full sister army, but would actually like to have a squad or three with perhaps a vehicle or two as part of an Inquisatorial force.

Relapse wrote:
I think if they just had a new Inquisitors codex with the Sisters in it, that would be the ticket. I myself have no desire for a full sister army, but would actually like to have a squad or three with perhaps a vehicle or two as part of an Inquisatorial force.

Allies are your friend.

Seriously the Inquisition was forced into the 3rd Edition book and sidelined Sisters in what should have been their codex. Good Riddance!

Relapse wrote:
I think if they just had a new Inquisitors codex with the Sisters in it, that would be the ticket. I myself have no desire for a full sister army, but would actually like to have a squad or three with perhaps a vehicle or two as part of an Inquisatorial force.

Why purposefully limit yourself? Okay, you won't play a whole army, but many of us would like to. Anything less and I'll probably quite warhammer.

 Lynata wrote:

Locrian wrote:Sounds like I'm in the minority here, but I love the SOB models.

You are not alone.

Mr.Church13 wrote:Make them stop looking like short, squat, Dark Angels. A complete overhaul similar to Dark Eldar might actually save the army. Keep the iconography, but readjust the armor, get some new helmets, and adjust their scale (although I think Marines could use a scale adjustment too, to be fair).

My aforementioned huge scepticism to any visual changes aside, how would you have them look, exactly? If you say that it's the robes that make them look like Dark Angels, getting rid of them should obviously make them look like Vanilla Marines. And what sort of armour adjustments? Making them more blocky? Kasrkin already went there.

Their current look clearly separates them from any of the other models; I think any sort of drastic change would just make them more similar to something that is already there.
Besides, they are supposed to be a weird crossover between military efficiency and impractical religious motif. Changing the visuals comes with a grave threat to sacrificing this aspect of their theme, I think.

Mr.Church13 wrote:But more importantly than any of that. GW needs to hire some sculptors THAT CAN MAKE GOOD FEMALE FACES!

Oh Emperor, yes. And it's not only the Sisters...

While I'm not nor do I claim to be a professional artist of any form I think that if you want to keep the robes you could tie them or tuck them up under a redesigned gauntlet or arm carapace, bring the scale up a bit so they're not so dang stumpy and lessen the robes to a more not all up in the way more tabard hanging off the front and back, and definitely slim up the armor and bring it tight against the body to keep that corset look it has like each piece was custom fit to each sister. Also a sleeker, slimmer, and overall more feminine profile is why I think the helmet needs a redesign.

Not perfect, but I do think the look could use a serious updating.

I want Sisters to look like this:

And not this:

Ok, that first piece of art is almost exactly what I want.

 MWHistorian wrote:

Relapse wrote:
I think if they just had a new Inquisitors codex with the Sisters in it, that would be the ticket. I myself have no desire for a full sister army, but would actually like to have a squad or three with perhaps a vehicle or two as part of an Inquisatorial force.

Why purposefully limit yourself? Okay, you won't play a whole army, but many of us would like to. Anything less and I'll probably quite warhammer.

I'm all for people having the option of a full out army of sisters if they want, and if they come out with a new codexfor them, I'd be happy. I have the Inquisition codex with the Sisters and really don't think it would take a lot to bring them up to a 6th edition level of competitiveness.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I want Sisters to look like this:

And not this:

There are people that want girl friends to look like that.

The fluff changes that annoyed ME the most were the fact they changed the fates of two of the Companions of Saint Dominica.

Silvana just vanished, instead of being replaced with a silver skeleton... and Arabella was apparently killed, instead of going on a quest into the Eye.

It's like Ward couldn't stand the thought of leaving plot-hooky loose ends in the Sisters fluff. :(

Edit: Anyway, I don't see the two pictures as being incompatible. The models were based on the original John Blanche picture, while the Kopinski picture on the top was based on the models!

I'm in favour of the top image too, actually - it maintains the aesthetic whilst being easier to sculpt and therefore produce. Blanche's art is pretty, but it's damn impractical for model-making.

 Kain wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Lol.

There is a number of us who are winning in no uncertain terms using Sisters of Battle. their "little codex" won four tournies in a row for me and took 3rd at NOVA.

So I suspect those speaking about Sisters (most of the time) haven't payed against them often. they are quite good.

the popularity issue may be another matter. I think the idea of guys playing a girl army is causing the silly ill will towards it frankly. It aint the results on the field because those have been good for me, for YEARS, before and after the new codex.

there is a very large thread for Sisters of Battle on Dakka BTW.

Your blatant condescension is noted and not appreciated.

Lighten up.

Mr.Church13 wrote:

Also a sleeker, slimmer, and overall more feminine profile is why I think the helmet needs a redesign.

Hmmm, nah. Current one is a futuristic sallet, which fits their medieval theme.

Also, I'm quite opposed to changing their armour to make it look more "feminine". Their whole point is that they are professional, zealot soldiers. They're this way before women.

Mr.Church13 wrote:Ok, that first piece of art is almost exactly what I want.

But that's how they look like now?

Troike wrote:Also, I'm quite opposed to changing their armour to make it look more "feminine". Their whole point is that they are professional, zealot soldiers. They're this way before women.

Yeah, we're getting enough weird comments about the "boob plate" and the corset already. I do not have any issues with those two details at all, but I guess I'm feeling like "any more and it becomes too sexualised" and "any less and it becomes too generic".

Plus, I have an allergy against SoB images (or the possibility of minis) with heels. Seriously, that ancient piece by Blanche is the only official artwork ever that features it, but it feels like 50% of the fan-art focuses on that. I always fear that some day, GW might actually adopt this, just because it's apparently so very popular. Only serves to further increase my scepticism to model updates.

For the most part, I don't understand the 'SoB have awful models' line. I -totally- understand that the Dialogus model is hideous, and the Repentia are kinda iffy, but the standard Battle Sister/Seraphim models? Those are rock solid, imo.

Also, as a personal note, there's nothing that brings me more giddy pleasure than challenging someone who trashes Sisters in my FLGS...and crushing them.

 curran12 wrote:
For the most part, I don't understand the 'SoB have awful models' line. I -totally- understand that the Dialogus model is hideous, and the Repentia are kinda iffy, but the standard Battle Sister/Seraphim models? Those are rock solid, imo.

Also, as a personal note, there's nothing that brings me more giddy pleasure than challenging someone who trashes Sisters in my FLGS...and crushing them.

I'm pretre and I endorse this post.

Hey, I kinda like the dialogus model. She's a bit too tall though. As tall as a space marine.
I don't want them to get sexier. I want them to get more hard core zealous military soldiery.
I wrote a whole history book about tough-as-nails women. I'm a little partial.

rowan341 wrote:
I like the DE look, very sharp and dangerous looking. I get the feeling they don't sell so well is the cardboard armour

Their earlier mini line was not as interesting as it is now, though. So they did look kind of bad and sold poorly, especially when they ended up in the outdated codex queue. Their new codex is much more interesting and the minis look a lot better too.

Skriker

 MWHistorian wrote:
Hey, I kinda like the dialogus model. She's a bit too tall though. As tall as a space marine.
I don't want them to get sexier. I want them to get more hard core zealous military soldiery.
I wrote a whole history book about tough-as-nails women. I'm a little partial.

I like everything but the mouth. That mouth, man...

And I agree, I don't want 'sexy' Sisters either. That's why I like their basic models so much, they are feminine but not overly sexualized.

Relapse wrote:
I think if they just had a new Inquisitors codex with the Sisters in it, that would be the ticket. I myself have no desire for a full sister army, but would actually like to have a squad or three with perhaps a vehicle or two as part of an Inquisatorial force.

Been there...done that...had a full witchhunters army with Sisters of Battle. Inquisitor themed codex line ultimately proves unpopular and dies off. I think they were two of the best codecies ever, allowing so many options for unique and fun forces. Sadly not enough people found that to be a useful thing. So now we have Codex Grey Knights and the silly white dwarf codex for Sisters of Battle.

Skriker

The support sisters int he command squad have been a bit of a puzzle. The Dialogus is not armored but is still treated as having power armor. The Hospitaler is a fine example of maintaining a slim armored appearance, while the regular BS display the "extra bulk" of power armor.

 curran12 wrote:
For the most part, I don't understand the 'SoB have awful models' line. I -totally- understand that the Dialogus model is hideous, and the Repentia are kinda iffy, but the standard Battle Sister/Seraphim models? Those are rock solid, imo.

I don't have a problem with their armor or their general feel. I just have a problem with the fact that for most of the units the models are almost identical. Minor changes in the hair style and small armor details don't hide the fact that most of the models are helmetless, all facing the same direction and all holding their weapons at the same exact height and angle. Bored the heck out of me when painting them and also made the army feel so dull on the table for me I sold it off. Seraphim, the heavies the character models all work for me. This was the same complaint I had back during the start of the transition over to plasic where plastic kits were pretty much a single model supplied in abundance in one box. BORING! The plastic kits just allow for my customization and personalization of the models in each unit. Converting models holding their weapons across their torsos like most of the SoB models just isn't all that easy., especially if you don't want the finished model to be covering that area anymore and you have to custom sculpt in the front of the armor.

Skriker

It's not that the sculpts are universally terrible, but, like others have posted, if you have a lot of them, they get boring to paint, because there's almost no variety to them. You can get a bit creative in hair and eye colors, but the armor is going to be the same, and if you're painting 75 models, that's going to get visually dull.

IG and Orks, at least, you can just spray-paint the whole army OD Green at one go and call it a day.

 Lynata wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:Ok, that first piece of art is almost exactly what I want.

But that's how they look like now?

Troike wrote:Also, I'm quite opposed to changing their armour to make it look more "feminine". Their whole point is that they are professional, zealot soldiers. They're this way before women.

Yeah, we're getting enough weird comments about the "boob plate" and the corset already. I do not have any issues with those two details at all, but I guess I'm feeling like "any more and it becomes too sexualised" and "any less and it becomes too generic".

Plus, I have an allergy against SoB images (or the possibility of minis) with heels. Seriously, that ancient piece by Blanche is the only official artwork ever that features it, but it feels like 50% of the fan-art focuses on that. I always fear that some day, GW might actually adopt this, just because it's apparently so very popular. Only serves to further increase my scepticism to model updates.

Not really. Their current model is weirdly stumpy with disproportionate small legs that make them all look male when the gun is drawn up. Trust me no one can tell they're female from a distance. And the hanging arm robes(source of the inability to make new models) is on each and every clone sister and in that art still needs to go or be tucked. Right now they just look like dwarf marines. Hence why they need more feminine (not in a sexual way) looks. Also they need to shrink those 80s style shoulder pads on the current model. I do fully agree with the no heels thing though.

Giant pauldrons is a theme of 40K. Always has been.

Just look at these dudes:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1252459_99120101025_SMTacticalsquadmain_873x627.jpg


... they have pauldron for *days*.

 Lynata wrote:
Plus, I have an allergy against SoB images (or the possibility of minis) with heels.

Could not agree more. It is fairly common in the fanart, but that I can tolerate. As long as it stays out of the official stuff. But I've spoken to people before who said they wouldn't mind heels on the models, and couldn't see any problem with a soldier in a warzone wearing high heels.

But I'm hopeful that GW will avoid this. The models were proper looking back in the days of Blanache art and the other "weird" 2e art. And the most recent codex keeps up the strong portrayal as tough, serious soldiers. Personally, I'm confident that new models would be as respectful to the army as the first.

 curran12 wrote:
For the most part, I don't understand the 'SoB have awful models' line. I -totally- understand that the Dialogus model is hideous, and the Repentia are kinda iffy, but the standard Battle Sister/Seraphim models? Those are rock solid, imo.

Seconding. They look like what they are, elite soldiers of the church.

Mr.Church13 wrote:
Not really. Their current model is weirdly stumpy with disproportionate small legs that make them all look male when the gun is drawn up. Trust me no one can tell they're female from a distance. And the hanging arm robes(source of the inability to make new models) is on each and every clone sister and in that art still needs to go or be tucked. Right now they just look like dwarf marines. Hence why they need more feminine (not in a sexual way) looks. Also they need to shrink those 80s style shoulder pads on the current model. I do fully agree with the no heels thing though.

I'm just concerned about the feminine thing going too far, and outshining the soldier/religion elements. Though I suppose that adjustments to their proportions and poses wouldn't be too harmful. As long as they don't get skintight armour or anything.

I might be a little late to the party, but didn't the BT use to have a Codex? If all rumors are true, most not really rumors anymore, then the whole we won't kill a codex bit is off.

If they could wrap the BT back into the SM codex, couldn't they just as easy roll the SoB into say the GK codex?

There's quite a difference between killing a codex off and being folded into a codex.

Catachans? Folded into a codex.
Daemon Hunters, Witch Hunters? Folded into a codex.

Squats? Killed off.

If they could wrap the BT back into the SM codex, couldn't they just as easy roll the SoB into say the GK codex?

They could, but it seems unlikely. More likely that they ignore them than reprint GK so soon after it was released.

Ummmm. A well done unified inquisition codex. Soo much win is possible.

 Roci wrote:
I might be a little late to the party, but didn't the BT use to have a Codex? If all rumors are true, most not really rumors anymore, then the whole we won't kill a codex bit is off.

If they could wrap the BT back into the SM codex, couldn't they just as easy roll the SoB into say the GK codex?

Well Black Templars are still Space Marines. So that works. Yes you could effectively make a combined Grey Knights/Sisters/Inquisitors codex the next time around as well. I think the point is less killing off "a codex" than it is killing off "an army". I do believe the latter is what people really mean. The last real codex with SoBs in them was the Witchhunters Codex and not a straight Sisters of Battle codex either.

Skriker

Mr.Church13 wrote:
Ummmm. A well done unified inquisition codex. Soo much win is possible.

I'm very apprehensive of this. Would be very bloated, for one. You're combining two fully-fledged armies, units will likely become overshadowed by other choices or maybe even dropped entirely. Then there's the fluff, which will again be very bloated, several factions fighting for the spotlight and only getting portions of it each.

And hey, I'll admit to a personal bias here, I'd much rather a standalone Sisters/Ecclesiarchy book. Let them keep the spotlight to themselves.

 Skriker wrote:
The last real codex with SoBs in them was the Witchhunters Codex and not a straight Sisters of Battle codex either.

The WD codex is a real codex! While smaller it still has the validity of another fully-fledged codex.