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I agree with the house rule regarding...well...everything!

I have enough Tau thrown together that I could field 500-750, I think.

But, I only have like 5 fully painted models.

I refuse to play until my army is painted.

A) It's motivating (the sooner I get them done, the faster I can play
B) It makes my army look better

My only problem is that I'm too much of a perfectionist..well..as much as my painting skills allow me to be, so I sometimes spend a bit too much time on even my basic troops

As someone who paints very slowly to get a result I can be proud of rather than 3 colour base, drybrush, dunk model in wash like a lot of people I know, this rule disgusts me.

 jonolikespie wrote:
As someone who paints very slowly to get a result I can be proud of rather than 3 colour base, drybrush, dunk model in wash like a lot of people I know, this rule disgusts me.

Much the same opinion. IF had to have fully paint armies to play, I would never get to play. Personally I prefer to see either full piant jobs or full greys as both have good detail. The half painted armies are less pleasing. Which is why I have one painted and one gray I play while I finish both half painted lists.

The waaagh rule is far more offputting than the painted rule, but I never play at GW stores (or any stores) as I'm not family friendly.

 d-usa wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
No reason the players at the store can't just quietly ignore that rule...

~Tim?

I don't know if the GW guy will be breathing over your shoulder and "reminding" you about that rule everytime you play. I figured if I'm the guy with the painted army I would remind the unpainted guy about it since it benefits me .

I have my entire army painted, but even if my opponent didn't, I wouldn't take the cheat roll to gain an advantage. After all, I'd rather have a "Friendly-Competitive" attitude. You can always choose to decline the "hatred" rerolls.

I am not a fan of these rules. I am not saying there is a reason the store can't put up such rules, but if my FLGS put up rules like that, I'd go somewhere else, period.

I do not want to play somewhere that I am not welcome, and those rules are restrictive and embarrassing, which communicate that someone that does not comply really is not welcome.

You want a family friendly store, I'm down with that. You don't want drinking or eating at the tables, I'm fine with that too. You want to keep the store clean, respectable, and professional, that's fine.

You want to post up rules giving me crap for not having my army painted? No. Screw that. I have a job. I have kids.

If you want to use positive reinforcement to encourage folks to paint their models, that's fantastic. Host painting days, have free painting classes, make a beautiful table at the front of the store you can only play on with painted models. That's all great. Don't penalize me for walking in the door with unpainted models.

You know what crap like that does? It encourages people to paint badly and to not enjoy painting. It does less to grow the hobby in the long run than encouraging people to develop an appreciation for painting. I don't need a stick to prod me into behaving 'properly' in a hobby that I am supposed to be enjoying in my free time. I don't need to feel embarrassed about not having paint on models that are each getting time-consuming cleaning, assembling, and converting. I shouldn't feel like I have to put in my time before I can enjoy a game.

I can't adequately express how pissed off crap like that makes me. I could snip my models off of a sprue, stick them right on a base, throw on a splotchy spray primer, pick out a few details sloppily, dip the thing, and glue on some crude ballast. That would be an "adequately" painted model that would look like . I don't want my models to look like . I want to be proud of my models, but I also want to play a game some time.

If you want people to invest time and energy into their models, you've got to create a welcoming, encouraging atmosphere that invites increasing involvement. Demanding it does more harm than good.

I love the idea of hatred versus unpainted models, I've got a buddy that needs a huge kick to get him painting and that would totally work! Idea, stolen!

Sounds like a good rule to me. It doesn't prevent someone from playing, but it gives a good incentive to have as many units painted as possible.

If they have more players than tables available, then they might as well use rules that will make the game as attractive to potential customers as possible.

weeble1000 wrote:






I can't adequately express how pissed off crap like that makes me.

er, kudos for trying.

Seems pretty awesome to me! I would definitely be in favor of something like this.

The local store around me once had a 'painted armies only' policy, so this definitely seems like a more reasonable alternative.

It hardly seems excessively punitive to me.

In the first competitive league I ever played, you got a 1 battle point penalty per game in which you weren't WYSIWYG. That penalty kept me from qualifying for the league finals. Next league, you had better bet I was 100% WYSIWYG.

Shortly thereafter GW debuted their Rogue Trader Tournament rules pack for FLGS stores; and it was scored on total aggregate points (battle, painting, sports), with 40% of your available painting points just being for it being fully painted. I got my darn army finished.

Only later did I really start to enjoy painting, although I always felt satisfied and pleased whenever I finished a unit and was able to show progress at the store with my buddies and opponents. But as primarily a competitive player, who initially wasn't into painting, those points incentives really motivated me to finish armies and get my darn painting done. In the process I also developed techniques to get it done fast, as I have a tendency to procrastinate. I'd say 80%+ of the painting I've done has been shorly before a big tournament, where I knew I needed to be fully painted to play at all, or I knew I'd take a significant points hit if I wasn't.

So, all that is to say, that I approve of and appreciate rules like this.

We are currently doing an escalation league there, and one of the points each month is for having a fully painted army each month. The one unit is my only unpainted unit left, and I should have them painted by next week.

I like playing painted, just thought this was an interesting rule.

I'm just happy I don't get kicked out when they see my DakkaDakka dice!

Honestly I like the rule and wish more stores would kick players in the pants like this.

When you game at a store (GW or FLGS) its an agreement that you get to use the space but your army is an advertisement for the entirety of the game. Its unlikely you pay to play at the store and rent is not free.

The local store for me tends to only have open tables for 40K on saturdays. He gets lots of walk in traffic and many wander into the gaming space to look around. So what do you want them to see a grey knight army "painted" with a rattle can of krylon silver vs a blob of grey IG guardsman and tanks or two armies done up to table top standard? the visual contrasts creates that appeal and draws people in. I am not a great painter but I get people eye humping my army simply because my stuff is painted and most of the other players dont bother beyond colored primer.

One last point, it may not be valid for all stores but it can happen. If you are a regular with a reputation for having painted stuff, the store owner may cut you deals on models. I hadn't planned to get a riptide right away but I got a significant discount on one. Again there are like 4 to 6 Tau players at that store but I am the only one fielding a painted riptide. New painted models create buzz.

Simple fact is painted armies sells models. Unpainted armies waste the store owner's time and might as well replace us with MTG.

I don't play with unpainted models because it is rude to the stores who give me gaming space for free to play with unpainted models and harm his store.

Besides, requiring painted models cuts down on theft too. Much harder for people to pop a blister and assemble it in a corner and claim to own it if every model in the store is painted as it walks in the door. As someone who has seen his fair share of theft in this way, I support bans on unpainted models.

And screw your self-importance excuses. We all have families, we all have jobs, we all have time management issues... If you don't like it, play elsewhere and don't come back. No real loss. You guys say "waaaaah, use carrot, incentivize me!" But no amount of incentivizing works on self-important people, especially since every incentive to paint will be seen as a personal attack on those who have made up their mind to not paint. This store provided an incentive to paint by giving those who painted an advantage, and all the non-painters see is "I'm at a disadvantage!"

Guess what? Paint and you can have the advantage too! The issue is there can never be a carrot provided to painters that will not offend self-important non-painters who lash out with massive hyperbole to defend their inaction.

Since often the alternative to requiring painting for play is "banning war gamers and replacing gaming with MTG" because the only reason to allow gaming is for profit in the store, I support rules which make wargaming more profitable, which all painted armies does.

I don't like the rule. But then, I'd never play at a GW store anyway.

Many gamers in my area, including me, love collecting armies - a lot of them. Most of us are never going to have everything painted.
We sometimes manage to play Warmachine or Godslayer or Infinity fully painted. But Warhammer needs so many miniatures, we're never going to get there, ever.

If you could play WHFB with like 20 miniatures, okay. But you can't. And re-rolling to hit is massive.

Stupid rule.

Boy, I love this.

[thquote=nkelsch 545582 5938624 null]Simple fact is painted armies sells models. Unpainted armies waste the store owner's time and might as well replace us with MTG.

I don't play with unpainted models because it is rude to the stores who give me gaming space for free to play with unpainted models and harm his store.

Besides, requiring painted models cuts down on theft too. Much harder for people to pop a blister and assemble it in a corner and claim to own it if every model in the store is painted as it walks in the door. As someone who has seen his fair share of theft in this way, I support bans on unpainted models.

And screw your self-importance excuses. We all have families, we all have jobs, we all have time management issues... If you don't like it, play elsewhere and don't come back. No real loss. You guys say "waaaaah, use carrot, incentivize me!" But no amount of incentivizing works on self-important people, especially since every incentive to paint will be seen as a personal attack on those who have made up their mind to not paint. This store provided an incentive to paint by giving those who painted an advantage, and all the non-painters see is "I'm at a disadvantage!"

Guess what? Paint and you can have the advantage too! The issue is there can never be a carrot provided to painters that will not offend self-important non-painters who lash out with massive hyperbole to defend their inaction.

Since often the alternative to requiring painting for play is "banning war gamers and replacing gaming with MTG" because the only reason to allow gaming is for profit in the store, I support rules which make wargaming more profitable, which all painted armies does.

Part of the reason I wouldn't be caught dead in a GW store.

 Sidstyler wrote:
I'm more enraged that they force you to yell Waaagh! for the roll.

Agreed. I hate that, especially in small areas.

Mecha_buddha wrote:When you game at a store (GW or FLGS) its an agreement that you get to use the space but your army is an advertisement for the entirety of the game.

nkelsch wrote:Simple fact is painted armies sells models. Unpainted armies waste the store owner's time and might as well replace us with MTG.

I don't play with unpainted models because it is rude to the stores who give me gaming space for free to play with unpainted models and harm his store.
...
Since often the alternative to requiring painting for play is "banning war gamers and replacing gaming with MTG" because the only reason to allow gaming is for profit in the store, I support rules which make wargaming more profitable, which all painted armies does.

Or, you know, providing a place to play could simply be a way of getting people to buy from you to begin with. My FLGS sees little walk in traffic, especially on game nights as it is often pretty late, so I really can't see how games acts as advertisement there when every week it's the same wargamers and the same magic guys.
However, providing a place for us to play incentives us to buy from them rather than online (where we can get better than a 10% discount).

GW are determined to push the idea of their stores as advertisements, doesn't mean FLGSs are expecting the same. If a GW store want's to implement this fine, I have no reason to play there anyway, if my FLGS wants to give the guys 3 colour dipping their models an advantage over me I'm not going to want to play there which would lose them my business.

Everyone benefits from painted armies. I hate painting, but hate playing with unpainted models. I try to field only fully painted units whenever I play as it just adds so much to a game.

The one and only time I played at a GW store (back in 5th edition) I squared off my fully painted CSM army against a fully painted BA army and the staffer, who was painting some store figures at the end of our table, remarked that it was not often he saw painted armies in the store.

A house rule which isn't OTT to bias against unpainted models is a good thing IMO.

 jonolikespie wrote:
As someone who paints very slowly to get a result I can be proud of rather than 3 colour base, drybrush, dunk model in wash like a lot of people I know, this rule disgusts me.

Yeah, but let's be honest here. People who paint well but just need a little more time to get their models finished are a minority compared to the people who have bare plastic armies (often with broken parts due to careless treatment, glue puddles everywhere, etc) because they just don't give a .

 Peregrine wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
As someone who paints very slowly to get a result I can be proud of rather than 3 colour base, drybrush, dunk model in wash like a lot of people I know, this rule disgusts me.

Yeah, but let's be honest here. People who paint well but just need a little more time to get their models finished are a minority compared to the people who have bare plastic armies (often with broken parts due to careless treatment, glue puddles everywhere, etc) because they just don't give a .

I don't think I have ever met anyone that didn't care at least a bit about it, our worst painters still put in effort. The scale of GW games is getting bigger and bigger, the last thing as a community want to do would seem to make it even harder for players to feel they can get into it.

And a rule like this targets people who do take there time( for any reason ) and new players, it probably would only be a inconviance if I could get someone to just spray my army and then splash on some paint over a few days without any care D:

seems like decent enough rules.

i do sometimes think that an unpainted army looks better than a badly painted one.

the positive attitude thing i find a little strange. not all of us take happy pills in the morning. the "always positive" types tend to look either fake or crazy to me.
or maybe they just put that rule in because everyone was bitching about GW all the time lol.

 Peregrine wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
As someone who paints very slowly to get a result I can be proud of rather than 3 colour base, drybrush, dunk model in wash like a lot of people I know, this rule disgusts me.

Yeah, but let's be honest here. People who paint well but just need a little more time to get their models finished are a minority compared to the people who have bare plastic armies (often with broken parts due to careless treatment, glue puddles everywhere, etc) because they just don't give a .

Agreed. I paint slowly - it has taken me almost 2 years to paint my Eldar army and even then it is still not finished. It took me about 3 years to paint my CSM (and there are a couple of units I don't have painted which bump me from 1500 points to 2000 which I still need to do).

I've found the best motivator to paint is knowing I have a game coming up, regardless of whether there is any painting metric scores. Even a friendly game means that I am going to break out the stuff that needs painting and get going on painting. I don't have a local store/club without driving into the city, but if I had one in the local town and so could play easily you can bet your butt I would paint the hell out of my models faster than I do now, when I play only very rarely.

Being a slow painter is no excuse for not painting. Not enjoying painting is not an excuse for not having a painted army. I'm slow and hate painting - just means I have found ways of quickly painting models to a reasonable standard and whenever I have a game coming up I try to include at least one unit I have not got painted yet to motivate me

i know if they implement this rule at my local GW it be empty at the weekends, as most of the kids that play there go in, buy a new unit, build it and thenplay it right away at the game table.

A very minimal amount of skill is required to get figures painted. Spray, wash, drybrush, touch a few bits of detail like the guns, paint base and flock. If you can't do that you're not even trying and people putting figures on the table that are thickly daubed in paint and splodges of various colours simply haven't taken any time or made any effort at all.

Painted armies in shops just give a better image of the hobby to people coming in and make the place look colourful, it also gives the impression that people respect and care for their hobby when they put that effort in. As a shop that's an attractive atmosphere for customers, but it just looks good to look at.

The waaaargh rule is stupid though. I don't mind people getting genuinely excited but having a rule that encourages screaming and shouting isn't something I like because I'm not five and don't like screaming and shouting, I see enough of that in school.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
A very minimal amount of skill is required to get figures painted. Spray, wash, drybrush, touch a few bits of detail like the guns, paint base and flock. If you can't do that you're not even trying and people putting figures on the table that are thickly daubed in paint and splodges of various colours simply haven't taken any time or made any effort at all.

And what if I want to put in more effort than that? I only get a half day off a week where I can actually do any hobby, if I don't have any assignments, why should I be penalised?
Instead of having this honestly stupid rule, reward people who paint, instead of penalising those who don't.
Something along the lines of if you increase the amount of stuff that is painted in between visits, you get a free re-roll in game, with people who have fully painted armies getting a free re-roll a turn or something?

 Krellnus wrote:
And what if I want to put in more effort than that? I only get a half day off a week where I can actually do any hobby, if I don't have any assignments, why should I be penalised?

I was working full time while going to university and I still managed to get paint on models. Being busy isn't really excluding people from painting. You just have to decide how you want to use your down time - play a computer game, watch some TV, or do some painting.

Instead of having this honestly stupid rule, reward people who paint, instead of penalising those who don't.

It's not really penalising those who don't paint any more than if you chose to play againt an army which has units which are good against your own army. Hell, it's not even as if you are forced to play by the rule in the store...

Something along the lines of if you increase the amount of stuff that is painted in between visits, you get a free re-roll in game, with people who have fully painted armies getting a free re-roll a turn or something?

"Oh nose! I don't have anything painted, that is soooo unfair! I'm gonna run home and never come back here again!"

 Krellnus wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
A very minimal amount of skill is required to get figures painted. Spray, wash, drybrush, touch a few bits of detail like the guns, paint base and flock. If you can't do that you're not even trying and people putting figures on the table that are thickly daubed in paint and splodges of various colours simply haven't taken any time or made any effort at all.

And what if I want to put in more effort than that? I only get a half day off a week where I can actually do any hobby, if I don't have any assignments, why should I be penalised?
Instead of having this honestly stupid rule, reward people who paint, instead of penalising those who don't.
Something along the lines of if you increase the amount of stuff that is painted in between visits, you get a free re-roll in game, with people who have fully painted armies getting a free re-roll a turn or something?

maybe something like a4% discount on purchases if you play with a full painted army that day. But I still think any rule like this serves only to alinaite some customers, but it's better to me than mucking with the rules in game over it.
Also I do like to put as much into my painting as I can when I can, if people think it's just a case of minimal effort they are taking huge assumptions of a lot of people.

nkelsch wrote:
GW used to require fully painted models up until the 'ard boyz events in the middle 2000s.

If you don't like it, paint your models or take your ball and go home? Stores can make and enforce any house rules they want. Sounds like a tongue in cheek way of getting people to paint. I have seen stores near me who allow people who buy and paint a unit from the store draw from a deck and that unit gains a "power". Incentivized buying and painting, you get a boost.

If you take gaming so serious that you get angry over losing a slight advantage, then don't play there.

Agreed.

It's just light-hearted. It could be worse, they could have banned unpainted armies altogether.

As for anyone getting genuinely angry about this...there are things more deserving of your rage.