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 mattyrm wrote:

Following the thread, it seems like your comments were far more rude than his.

Oh really? Are you serious? People can call others 'child' 'wee man' and 'rude little prick' and that is ok? But saying 'reading comprehension fail' is worse? LOL you can't be serious.

Easily done, you seemed to be bouncing around a alittle, and perhaps that is what caused the issue, because I still cant actually tell if you play with unpainted models or not!

I haven't played in months. If I played now, and I wanted to use my newer army (b/c who wouldn't) half the army is currently primed, the other half is basecoated and a quarter is fully painted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lucasbuffalo wrote:

 Auxellion wrote:

Then again Super - I don't play against players with unpainted armies. If you want to use a FLGS/GW store's tables outside of your den, paint your army

I believe that "a" should be a "my" or a "certain" in this sentence, as I've never played at any FLGS that required players to have painted armies to use their tables. If I had been told that, I'd simply stop going to that store and go to one which let me play the game I was spending money on as I wished.

Agreed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 infinite_array wrote:
So, do I get extra points if I prefer playing against painted miniatures, and so took my friends miniatures and painted them for him, knowing he'd never get around to doing it himself?

Can I be your friend? LOL.

I won't say they'll never be painted, because they will, but it takes me forever...

 lucasbuffalo wrote:

 Auxellion wrote:

Then again Super - I don't play against players with unpainted armies. If you want to use a FLGS/GW store's tables outside of your den, paint your army

I believe that "a" should be a "my" or a "certain" in this sentence, as I've never played at any FLGS that required players to have painted armies to use their tables. If I had been told that, I'd simply stop going to that store and go to one which let me play the game I was spending money on as I wished.

I've basically only been to stores with that rule (fairly unspoken) - which is a rule I enjoy.

IMHO - thats another full thread discussion that I've seen numerous times. Stop going to the nearby FLGS? Enjoy your drive/travel/trip somewhere else. Support your local FLGS and follow their rules when playing with toys on their playmats. Fairly basic.

 Auxellion wrote:

 lucasbuffalo wrote:

 Auxellion wrote:

Then again Super - I don't play against players with unpainted armies. If you want to use a FLGS/GW store's tables outside of your den, paint your army

I believe that "a" should be a "my" or a "certain" in this sentence, as I've never played at any FLGS that required players to have painted armies to use their tables. If I had been told that, I'd simply stop going to that store and go to one which let me play the game I was spending money on as I wished.

I've basically only been to stores with that rule (fairly unspoken) - which is a rule I enjoy.

IMHO - thats another full thread discussion that I've seen numerous times. Stop going to the nearby FLGS? Enjoy your drive/travel/trip somewhere else. Support your local FLGS and follow their rules when playing with toys on their playmats. Fairly basic.

Or support one of the stores that allows you to play the game the way you want to. I'm certainly not entitled to playing the game I want in a store that doesn't want me to, but they're also not entitled to my business if they aren't meeting my needs as a customer.

lucasbuffalo
[DCM]
"He Who Spends All His Money on Plastic"



Then I agree - most stores should have "Events only fully painted" (Which is the norm around here). The local GW near me always had this policy so I was used to it. If you spend a fair amount of money at a store - spend it at the store that allows unpainted models/whatever rules you enjoy.

It's an odd thing to arrive at a store and check out the local scene - to find hordes of unpainted Grey/white/black models. It dampens your opinion on the local crowd a fair bit.

Introducing new players to the game with primed black armies/selling the product? I can list stores that cannot boast a single painted army or a showcase to show off painted models as a selling point. I only view painted armies/painting required as a positive rule for a store.

In OP's post - it states they would have a buff on painted units. I actually agree/like this idea quite a bit instead of store-wide banning unpainted models.

 Auxellion wrote:
lucasbuffalo
[DCM]
"He Who Spends All His Money on Plastic"



Then I agree - most stores should have "Events only fully painted" (Which is the norm around here). The local GW near me always had this policy so I was used to it. If you spend a fair amount of money at a store - spend it at the store that allows unpainted models/whatever rules you enjoy.

It's an odd thing to arrive at a store and check out the local scene - to find hordes of unpainted Grey/white/black models. It dampens your opinion on the local crowd a fair bit.

Introducing new players to the game with primed black armies/selling the product? I can list stores that cannot boast a single painted army or a showcase to show off painted models as a selling point. I only view painted armies/painting required as a positive rule for a store.

In OP's post - it states they would have a buff on painted units. I actually agree/like this idea quite a bit instead of store-wide banning unpainted models.

But isn't new players it's own issue? "Oh hi, we're glad you just bought a bunch of stuff here after going through our demo! Oh no, sorry, you can't play here yet. You actually need to also buy these paints and go spend a good chunk of time at home before you actually get to play the game you bought. Sorry."

It dampens your opinion on the local crowd a fair bit.

Who's opinion? I tend to think "hey they like to play more than paint" not "they are bad at my hobby and should feel bad."

What will they do If I play LOTR?Ain't no hatred in that game.

Da krimson barun wrote:
What will they do If I play LOTR?Ain't no hatred in that game.

Come on, be realistic

 infinite_array wrote:
So, do I get extra points if I prefer playing against painted miniatures, and so took my friends miniatures and painted them for him, knowing he'd never get around to doing it himself?

Massively, I salute your stoic determination!

 lucasbuffalo wrote:
But isn't new players it's own issue? "Oh hi, we're glad you just bought a bunch of stuff here after going through our demo! Oh no, sorry, you can't play here yet. You actually need to also buy these paints and go spend a good chunk of time at home before you actually get to play the game you bought. Sorry."

But that's going to happen anyways; "Oh hi, we're glad you just bought a bunch of stuff here after going through our demo! Oh no, sorry, you can't play here yet. You actually need to put the miniatures together before you actually get to play the game you bought. Sorry."

Is gluing models together unfriendly to new players? Or do you feel players should just use the bases as markers?

 Mastiff wrote:

 lucasbuffalo wrote:
But isn't new players it's own issue? "Oh hi, we're glad you just bought a bunch of stuff here after going through our demo! Oh no, sorry, you can't play here yet. You actually need to also buy these paints and go spend a good chunk of time at home before you actually get to play the game you bought. Sorry."

But that's going to happen anyways; "Oh hi, we're glad you just bought a bunch of stuff here after going through our demo! Oh no, sorry, you can't play here yet. You actually need to put the miniatures together before you actually get to play the game you bought. Sorry."

Is gluing models together unfriendly to new players? Or do you feel players should just use the bases as markers?

A. Plenty of miniatures come in almost-completed forms (HQs, most of the snap-fit starter boxes stuff, etc.)
B. Even non-one piece or non-easy assemble pieces still require a massively smaller time dedication than painting before playing does.

fishy bob wrote:

Da krimson barun wrote:
What will they do If I play LOTR?Ain't no hatred in that game.

Come on, be realistic

?

Da krimson barun wrote:

fishy bob wrote:

Da krimson barun wrote:
What will they do If I play LOTR?Ain't no hatred in that game.

Come on, be realistic

?

He's implying that no one plays LOTR.

 lucasbuffalo wrote:

 Mastiff wrote:

 lucasbuffalo wrote:
But isn't new players it's own issue? "Oh hi, we're glad you just bought a bunch of stuff here after going through our demo! Oh no, sorry, you can't play here yet. You actually need to also buy these paints and go spend a good chunk of time at home before you actually get to play the game you bought. Sorry."

But that's going to happen anyways; "Oh hi, we're glad you just bought a bunch of stuff here after going through our demo! Oh no, sorry, you can't play here yet. You actually need to put the miniatures together before you actually get to play the game you bought. Sorry."

Is gluing models together unfriendly to new players? Or do you feel players should just use the bases as markers?

A. Plenty of miniatures come in almost-completed forms (HQs, most of the snap-fit starter boxes stuff, etc.)
B. Even non-one piece or non-easy assemble pieces still require a massively smaller time dedication than painting before playing does.

In your previous post, you said that the only thing preventing a new player from playing with his newly-purchased army was the store owner saying they needed to paint first. It's not true. "Almost-completed" still means they're taking their toys home before they use them in a first game.

 Mastiff wrote:

 lucasbuffalo wrote:

 Mastiff wrote:

 lucasbuffalo wrote:
But isn't new players it's own issue? "Oh hi, we're glad you just bought a bunch of stuff here after going through our demo! Oh no, sorry, you can't play here yet. You actually need to also buy these paints and go spend a good chunk of time at home before you actually get to play the game you bought. Sorry."

But that's going to happen anyways; "Oh hi, we're glad you just bought a bunch of stuff here after going through our demo! Oh no, sorry, you can't play here yet. You actually need to put the miniatures together before you actually get to play the game you bought. Sorry."

Is gluing models together unfriendly to new players? Or do you feel players should just use the bases as markers?

A. Plenty of miniatures come in almost-completed forms (HQs, most of the snap-fit starter boxes stuff, etc.)
B. Even non-one piece or non-easy assemble pieces still require a massively smaller time dedication than painting before playing does.

In your previous post, you said that the only thing preventing a new player from playing with his newly-purchased army was the store owner saying they needed to paint first. It's not true. "Almost-completed" still means they're taking their toys home before they use them in a first game.

You know the point he was trying to make. You can buy half a dozen boxes of stuff and easily have it all assembled before coming in again next week, the same usually can't be said of having it all painted.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:

 Mastiff wrote:

 lucasbuffalo wrote:

 Mastiff wrote:

 lucasbuffalo wrote:
But isn't new players it's own issue? "Oh hi, we're glad you just bought a bunch of stuff here after going through our demo! Oh no, sorry, you can't play here yet. You actually need to also buy these paints and go spend a good chunk of time at home before you actually get to play the game you bought. Sorry."

But that's going to happen anyways; "Oh hi, we're glad you just bought a bunch of stuff here after going through our demo! Oh no, sorry, you can't play here yet. You actually need to put the miniatures together before you actually get to play the game you bought. Sorry."

Is gluing models together unfriendly to new players? Or do you feel players should just use the bases as markers?

A. Plenty of miniatures come in almost-completed forms (HQs, most of the snap-fit starter boxes stuff, etc.)
B. Even non-one piece or non-easy assemble pieces still require a massively smaller time dedication than painting before playing does.

In your previous post, you said that the only thing preventing a new player from playing with his newly-purchased army was the store owner saying they needed to paint first. It's not true. "Almost-completed" still means they're taking their toys home before they use them in a first game.

You know the point he was trying to make. You can buy half a dozen boxes of stuff and easily have it all assembled before coming in again next week, the same usually can't be said of having it all painted.

I didn't actually play a game of 40k until I painted my "1500 Ultramarines" back when I started in 4th edition. I spent a month building and painting it first because that was the local GW's rules.

Still have not seen any proof that requiring paint minimums increases a store's sales. We actually have anecdotal evidence that the majority of LGS do not subscribe to that theory in this polling thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/420990.page

Currently it shows that 78% of the stores have 75% or less armies that are painted/finished. If fielding only painted armies actually increased business we would not be seeing only 8% of the stores with 75%-100% fully painted models....the numbers should be reversed if truly is the case that demanding fully painted models increases business in a store.

There is nothing wrong in taking pride in how you have painted your army. However, it does not make you a better player or an authority on what it takes for someone else to enjoy the hobby. Each person has a right to determine what level of participation is right for themselves. Store owners also have the right to set whatever policies they want, and their customers will choose to continue/discontinue shopping/playing there based upon those policies.

The only way I can relate it is thru my experiences of playing D&D at GenCon and CWA Con in the early 80's. The majority of people showed up in street clothes, yet there were some who would wear suits of armor, carry weapons, and dress the roles they were playing as it enhanced their RP experience. Those who did not dress up still had a great time and had no trouble suspending disbelief. The amount of people showing up to the tournaments would have been miniscule in comparison if there had been a requirement that all of the participants had to dress up in order to RP and play thru the modules.

I see those who demand paint requirements in the same light as a RP who demands that everyone has to dress up so they can have better immersion and enjoyment. It is more about themselves, and what they think the hobby is about, than the actual gameplay itself. When you deem someone as an unworthy opponent on the basis of their army not being painted, you are well within your rights...yet you are also acting as elitist who thinks they know what is best for hobby.

No one is "demanding" paint requirements.

The OP does not even "demand" painted requirements, it just has a bonus for having painted a unit v. not painting a unit. The rule is not even army wide from what it looks like it just applies to unpainted units.

 Kanluwen wrote:
No one is "demanding" paint requirements.

The OP does not even "demand" painted requirements, it just has a bonus for having painted a unit v. not painting a unit. The rule is not even army wide from what it looks like it just applies to unpainted units.

Yeah exactly, it's merely a slight advantage anyway, and it's only for individual units. As I said on the first page, it's hardly a game breaker.

I don't see anything on that white board presenting itself to be in a GW store. Honestly to me that rule is a "funny" rule and not ment to be takin seriously...anyways who can dictate if you even used that rule?

 Sidstyler wrote:
I'm more enraged that they force you to yell Waaagh! for the roll.

I'm sorry, but you have no soul.

 Kanluwen wrote:
No one is "demanding" paint requirements.

This has been mentioned as the policy at a number of GW and other stores within this thread.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The OP does not even "demand" painted requirements, it just has a bonus for having painted a unit v. not painting a unit. The rule is not even army wide from what it looks like it just applies to unpainted units.

So then it is demanded assuming you want to play a fair game.

If you have so many unpainted units that a rule which by its wording applies to single units that this becomes "unfair", I'd suggest you stop pretending that it is the shop at fault.

 Redbeard wrote:

No reanimation protocols unless you robot dance (or sing Mr Roboto)

And if you know at least 3 other Styx songs all your attacks get rending and are AP1

Dolgan wrote:
Still have not seen any proof that requiring paint minimums increases a store's sales. We actually have anecdotal evidence that the majority of LGS do not subscribe to that theory in this polling thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/420990.page

Currently it shows that 78% of the stores have 75% or less armies that are painted/finished. If fielding only painted armies actually increased business we would not be seeing only 8% of the stores with 75%-100% fully painted models....the numbers should be reversed if truly is the case that demanding fully painted models increases business in a store.

Out of a sampling of 1400 Dakka posters who saw the poll and bothered to respond. You're right, that's very anecdotal. Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence.

Anecdotal evidence, while not perfect, is better than baseless claims with no supporting evidence. There has been absolutely zero evidence posted to support the claim that having only painted armies playing in a store increases sales and/or foot traffic...only biased opinions by those who think everyone should conform to what their vision of 40k is.

My bias, if you can call accepting games against unpainted armies when yours are painted a bias, is that I only play the game. Don't care about the lore, how long it has existed, or the non-essential fluff that does not pertain to the actual gameplay/rules. It is not necessary to play the game. It is great if you want to have a 500pg background on your army and paint it to the same specs as described in the lore. It is unreasonable to expect everyone to have that level of dedication, or expect them to enjoy the entire "hobby" around the 40K game, just because you do.

Dolgan wrote:
Anecdotal evidence, while not perfect, is better than baseless claims with no supporting evidence.

Anecdotal evidence is baseless claims with no supporting evidence. It's purely based on someones claims with nothing to back it up. Using a lot of anecdotal evidence doesn't change this, especially when the sample size is so small and there's no data, in this case, of concentration per store.

The survey is not anectodal evicence then, since there are actual answers to the survey to back it up.

My personal experiences are also not anectodal evidence then, since I can personally back them up.

Unless we have different definitions of anectodal evidence.

Anectodal evidence may be more biased because of the small sample size, but it is better than no evidence and not as good as a larger sample size with better support.

Hold up, they want it family friendly in there and maintains a positive attitude? That is some major BS. They can't stop me if I want to make it rain up in that shop. So I can play with plastic toy models but can't play with real models? The humanity.

Just kidding, my wife would not allow me to participate in that hobby. I think the rule is you can window shop but you can't try it on.

From a marketing standpoint there is 100% scientifically proven and universally accepted PROOF that colourfull imagery is more effective in advertising. In the grey versus painted argument its pretty clear that a painted army IS better advertising.

Here is a good article on how colours affect people moods and perceptions:

The Science of Colours in Marketing.

Note how women HATE GREY. I am looking at all you guys with unpainted armies. Its your fault they don't come in and talk to us. Or play warhammer with us. >:/

NickOnwezen wrote:

Note how women HATE GREY. I am looking at all you guys with unpainted armies. Its your fault they don't come in and talk to us. Or play warhammer with us. >:/

Wow! It just occurred to me now!

No wonder why all these women have been approaching me after I finished painting my British for FoW.