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Listen you 'Whiney Teenager thats full of Bollox' jk. Go to the store bring your rule book and play. If the stores sales rep or what ever you call him gives you a hard time and pushes you to buy something. Buy a soda or a candy bar or spend some time looking at paint and ask questions. Make him do his job and make him offer customer service. Id give it one more shoot do you have a cell phone? If he does kick you out i would call your parente and let them know whats going on while in the store.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Only when you start actually reading other people's posts.

If you are want to discuss this matter in good faith, re-read the OP and admit the goal posts were not moved. Please admit your 100% clear mistake. Thank you.

And if you want to discuss this matter in good faith, then admit that the OP is a nightmarish run-on wall of text that reeks of a knee-jerk post done in reaction to the OP being upset about having been asked to leave and not something intended to actually stir discussion.

I don't see your admission here. Do you really not care about having an honest, good faith discussion? Please tell everyone now so they won't bother talking to you.

Please admit you missed the part in the OP after the high pressure sales tactics, where the employee came over and asked to see the kids rulebook, how the OP said the store owner usually 'let's it slide' but the employee asked him to leave instead? Please admit you had a lot of trouble understanding what just about everyone else here had no trouble with.

Super Newb wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
If someone accused him of being liable, why should he get into an argument with a child who is clearly wrong? Why not just throw him out?

WHAT? That happened AFTER he was already told to leave! It's irrelevant to why he was told to leave!

Since you want to jump on people for "not reading", the OP clarified that he never actually accused the employee of being liable.

Oh please, the point up there is that the discussion on liability occurred after the kid was told to leave, so nkelsch bringing it up in any way at all as a reason for kicking the kid out initially is illogical.

If the OP did not accuse the employee of being liable, then there was no discussion about liability.

The simple fact of the matter is that the only account we have of this incident is the OP's. We do not know what either side actually did, just what the OP has posted happened.

Crazyterran wrote:
The only thing I don't understand is why didn't you just order the case from their online store, since most GWs have computers there now to let you do that.

Then you would have bought something and your case would be on the way.

I'm not certain on this, but he may have to have used a debit card, which being 14 you can't get (or at best get a toy one that isn't really accepted anywhere) and he had cash.

He did mention something about his dad would have ordered it in one of his posts, as he was account/card holder.

Super Newb wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Only when you start actually reading other people's posts.

If you are want to discuss this matter in good faith, re-read the OP and admit the goal posts were not moved. Please admit your 100% clear mistake. Thank you.

And if you want to discuss this matter in good faith, then admit that the OP is a nightmarish run-on wall of text that reeks of a knee-jerk post done in reaction to the OP being upset about having been asked to leave and not something intended to actually stir discussion.

I don't see your admission here. Do you really not care about having an honest, good faith discussion? Please tell everyone now so they won't bother talking to you.

Please admit you missed the part in the OP after the high pressure sales tactics, where the employee came over and asked to see the kids rulebook, how the OP said the store owner usually 'let's it slide' but the employee asked him to leave instead? Please admit you had a lot of trouble understanding what just about everyone else here had no trouble with.

If the storeowner "lets it slide", that implies that it would not be acceptable unless that specific employee is there.

nkelsch wrote:
After multiple hours he cannot quite say that and he is then putting the store at risk while he is on the premises.

Cite?

If you are asked to leave, minor or not, you leave...

Are you confused who you are talking to? I am not disputing this.

Without being there all we really have is one persons side of the story so its hard to get a good read on exactly what happened. Working on the OP's version being true then yes it does seem odd that the staffer stopped a game between two people sharing a rule book however maybe that's policy I dont really know. If the OP was list planning with the intention of picking what to buy next as mentioned then if the staffer was a little more patient they may have made a sale.

However if the intention was to linger for 4+ hours unsupervised and not make a purchase (having found the original item to be out of stock) then I can see why the staffer asked them to leave. Especially if the intent to not make a purchase was given in an angry or confrontational tone (not saying it was, but it'd give more reason to ask to leave). At the end of the day it was a shop and they are within their rights to ask someone to leave, perhaps it violates the "hobby" aspect that they promote however the staffer does have the ability and right to ask anyone not making a purchase to leave the property aslong as no bias was shown (race, gender etc)

Super Newb wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
If someone accused him of being liable, why should he get into an argument with a child who is clearly wrong? Why not just throw him out?

WHAT? That happened AFTER he was already told to leave! It's irrelevant to why he was told to leave!

You don't know why the store asked him to leave, but 'are you going to buy something' is the first step in establishing loitering which allows them to invoke trespassing and call the police. People use that tactic to get rid of loud people, smelly people, people breaking stuff, people annoying other customers, people being a nuisance and yes... underage minors being unsupervised.

 azreal13 wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
The only thing I don't understand is why didn't you just order the case from their online store, since most GWs have computers there now to let you do that.

Then you would have bought something and your case would be on the way.

I'm not certain on this, but he may have to have used a debit card, which being 14 you can't get (or at best get a toy one that isn't really accepted anywhere) and he had cash.

He did mention something about his dad would have ordered it in one of his posts, as he was account/card holder.

One thing that I have been doing after learning that orders placed via the in store terminals or shipped to be picked up at the store do not actually count towards an employee's salesnumbers is buying gift cards to use when placing my order.

The gift cards count as a sale for the store and the employee though, which is something I have no qualms with.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Only when you start actually reading other people's posts.

If you are want to discuss this matter in good faith, re-read the OP and admit the goal posts were not moved. Please admit your 100% clear mistake. Thank you.

And if you want to discuss this matter in good faith, then admit that the OP is a nightmarish run-on wall of text that reeks of a knee-jerk post done in reaction to the OP being upset about having been asked to leave and not something intended to actually stir discussion.

I don't see your admission here. Do you really not care about having an honest, good faith discussion? Please tell everyone now so they won't bother talking to you.

Please admit you missed the part in the OP after the high pressure sales tactics, where the employee came over and asked to see the kids rulebook, how the OP said the store owner usually 'let's it slide' but the employee asked him to leave instead? Please admit you had a lot of trouble understanding what just about everyone else here had no trouble with.

If the storeowner "lets it slide", that implies that it would not be acceptable unless that specific employee is there.

Sigh, total avoidance of my point. You have no intention at all of having a good faith discussion. Please do not respond to me again in this thread. Thank you.

Super Newb wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Only when you start actually reading other people's posts.

If you are want to discuss this matter in good faith, re-read the OP and admit the goal posts were not moved. Please admit your 100% clear mistake. Thank you.

And if you want to discuss this matter in good faith, then admit that the OP is a nightmarish run-on wall of text that reeks of a knee-jerk post done in reaction to the OP being upset about having been asked to leave and not something intended to actually stir discussion.

I don't see your admission here. Do you really not care about having an honest, good faith discussion? Please tell everyone now so they won't bother talking to you.

Please admit you missed the part in the OP after the high pressure sales tactics, where the employee came over and asked to see the kids rulebook, how the OP said the store owner usually 'let's it slide' but the employee asked him to leave instead? Please admit you had a lot of trouble understanding what just about everyone else here had no trouble with.

If the storeowner "lets it slide", that implies that it would not be acceptable unless that specific employee is there.

Sigh, total avoidance of my point. You have no intention at all of having a good faith discussion. Please do not respond to me again in this thread. Thank you.

Says the individual who apparently saw everything and insists that it happened exactly as posted.

If you want to have a "good faith discussion", then you need to admit that there is every possibility that the OP is trying to drum up exactly the negative reaction that has been drummed up against an employee who they feel has wronged them and cannot defend themselves.

Sure, it is *always* possible whenever anyone tells any story abotu anyone else online. Still, the fact remains you cannot even admit to a clear mistake you made and it is quite obvious you have no interest discussing the matter in good faith. I won't respond to you again.

I have played at over 20 stores (GW and non-gw), and I can sadly say that a lack of tolerance for players is fairly on-par for GW stores, at least in Canada and the northern states of the USA. There are defiately exceptions to the rule (GW in Ottawa springs to mind), but by and large, GW stores exist to attract new players, and caters accordingly.
If you want to be treated as a gamer and not just a retail prospect, head to a private store. It's no guarantee that every independant store will be open to players from all walks of life (being 14 doesn't help, no matter how mature you may be), but they are generally better because of a bunch of reasons:
a)they need your repeat business/want you to be interested in other games while you are there, moreso than GW
b)they are people that do hobbies for a living. GW is a retail store, and an independent is run by someone who (hopefully) is a gamer and can make their own rules, as opposed to following GWs practice and store guidelines.
c)Independant stores sometimes give discounts on models or bulk purchaces. I have a store near my home that gives you $15 in store for every $100 you spend, and theres another store not to far away that sells models for 15% less than GW does.

 azreal13 wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
The only thing I don't understand is why didn't you just order the case from their online store, since most GWs have computers there now to let you do that.

Then you would have bought something and your case would be on the way.

I'm not certain on this, but he may have to have used a debit card, which being 14 you can't get (or at best get a toy one that isn't really accepted anywhere) and he had cash.

He did mention something about his dad would have ordered it in one of his posts, as he was account/card holder.

Nah, you can order on the terminal and pay cash to the register. I did for my Specialist Games shut down splurge.

I didn't make the thread just to 'Drum up a negative response' because what would be the point in that? I don't need validation from people off the internet, how ever nice or cynical they are. I made the thread to ask if what he did was legal and if it broke GW's policy of come in and play, collect and paint. I have found out he was within his rights to kick me out (I think, although by UK law he should of handed me to the police as I understand it). Why he kicked me out doesn't really matter for the law, that's the law. But why he kicked me out does matter towards when I explain my situation to the manager and when he asks himself is that the kind of person I want working in my store and why this situation occurred. By any rate, even if EVERYTHING he did was perfectly by the book, he was till very rude to me with his tone of voice and choice of words ('Not my problem' isn't friendly anyway you look at it in the situation) and I would have the right to complain about that to the manager, am I correct in that?

Sure Alex, you can complain to the manager.

But unless the employee overstepped his authority I cannot see anything coming of it.

As I said in the beginning, yes, he was rude. However, he was well within his rights, as you stated. Stores have to make money. People loitering in a store does not make money, and it looks bad when a customer walks in and there are people just sitting around from their perspective. "hmmmm, Warhammer looks boring, I'll go shop for another video game."

I believe the issue will come in as to how (understandably) agitate you were when asked to leave and exactly what you said. If you became rude, aggressive, disruptive etc then telling the Staffer you couldnt get home would legitimately not have been his problem, after all you got there on your own and they arent responsibile for how their customers get to or from the store. You could have words to express you felt unfairly treated and get clarification on if you need your own rulebook while playing or if sharing is OK. Basically to stop this happening in future rather than try to punish a staffer.

I can see something coming of it if the manager takes the customer's part.

No matter what technical legal authority someone has, it does not excuse them being rude to customers.

The 'not my problem' comment actually seemed tame after your complaining about not having a place to go. What response to that could he have given that you would not have considered rude?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
As I said in the beginning, yes, he was rude. However, he was well within his rights, as you stated. Stores have to make money. People loitering in a store does not make money, and it looks bad when a customer walks in and there are people just sitting around from their perspective. "hmmmm, Warhammer looks boring, I'll go shop for another video game."

On the other hand though, instead of someone sitting down with a list, there's an empty space that ain't too attractive either

Honestly though, I really can't understand the original proposition, and feel that the young lad must be leaving something out.

Far be it for me to defend the inherently irritating fethers that work in the bloody places, that barrage me with questions inside ten seconds on entering on the rare occasions I go in, but they do seem remarkably tolerant of children.

I just can't fathom why the bloke would act in such a manner, and I have never seen any of their staff act in such a manner in twenty years of occasional visits.

In my opinion, either the guy is a truly remarkable moron who never had a job interview, or something isn't being said.

 CptJake wrote:

The 'not my problem' comment actually seemed tame after your complaining about not having a place to go. What response to that could he have given that you would not have considered rude?

Uh, really? You think *that* is where the rudeness started? Try to see the forest from the tree.

Super Newb wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

The 'not my problem' comment actually seemed tame after your complaining about not having a place to go. What response to that could he have given that you would not have considered rude?

Uh, really? You think *that* is where the rudeness started? Try to see the forest from the tree.

Really? Did I satate or imply I thought the rudeness started there? No. I was addressing a specific comment ALEXisAWESOME made where HE singled out that specific reply. Try to see what I was responding to:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
By any rate, even if EVERYTHING he did was perfectly by the book, he was till very rude to me with his tone of voice and choice of words ('Not my problem' isn't friendly anyway you look at it in the situation) and I would have the right to complain about that to the manager, am I correct in that?

If he chooses to single that out, I am honestly curious what reply the GW employee could have given at that point (after ALEXisAWESOME complained about not having a place to go) which would not have been considered rude.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
As I said in the beginning, yes, he was rude. However, he was well within his rights, as you stated. Stores have to make money. People loitering in a store does not make money, and it looks bad when a customer walks in and there are people just sitting around from their perspective. "hmmmm, Warhammer looks boring, I'll go shop for another video game."

to be fair though, alex was actually doing stuff - playing a game. With a shared rulebook on the table.

there is "the law", but there is also "common sense". Lets be honest here, we are not trying to one-up Judge Dredd here, with iron adherence to "the law" and how it "must" be followed.

Alex - for what its worth, you sound like a sensible, reasonable and quite mature young kid. Fair play. Maybe Dakka isnt the best place to comment on what happened to you (dakka drags out all kinds of people, some with very skewed and/or harsh opinions with little merit in the "real" world if you ask me), but you've made quite a good showing of yourself here. for what its worth, it sounds like a rough deal. i hope you manage to resolve your situation in a positive manner

 Kanluwen wrote:
Sure Alex, you can complain to the manager.

But unless the employee overstepped his authority I cannot see anything coming of it.

I'm starting to see why you have a reputation.

I had a problem at a theater once, was pretty much blown off, went up the chain all the way to the CEO. Yes CEO of Harkins Theaters, Dan Harkins. I was given a full year free of movies.

So EVEN if the minimum wage manager and lowly employee has a problem, keep going up the ladder. If you pay for a service you better be damn straight that something will come out of it.

You get pushed, you push back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I can see something coming of it if the manager takes the customer's part.

No matter what technical legal authority someone has, it does not excuse them being rude to customers.

Yep, being rude hurts sales, hurting sales is bad

 pities2004 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Sure Alex, you can complain to the manager.

But unless the employee overstepped his authority I cannot see anything coming of it.

I'm starting to see why you have a reputation.

I had a problem at a theater once, was pretty much blown off, went up the chain all the way to the CEO. Yes CEO of Harkins Theaters, Dan Harkins. I was given a full year free of movies.

So EVEN if the minimum wage manager and lowly employee has a problem, keep going up the ladder. If you pay for a service you better be damn straight that something will come out of it.

You get pushed, you push back.

In America. I don't quite see the same results happening in the UK....

Even here in the US I cannot imagine that going anywhere unless there is a huge amount of complaints about the employee in question.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 pities2004 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Sure Alex, you can complain to the manager.

But unless the employee overstepped his authority I cannot see anything coming of it.

I'm starting to see why you have a reputation.

I had a problem at a theater once, was pretty much blown off, went up the chain all the way to the CEO. Yes CEO of Harkins Theaters, Dan Harkins. I was given a full year free of movies.

So EVEN if the minimum wage manager and lowly employee has a problem, keep going up the ladder. If you pay for a service you better be damn straight that something will come out of it.

You get pushed, you push back.

In America. I don't quite see the same results happening in the UK....

That's unfortunate, the whole situation is just gak.

 pities2004 wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 pities2004 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Sure Alex, you can complain to the manager.

But unless the employee overstepped his authority I cannot see anything coming of it.

I'm starting to see why you have a reputation.

I had a problem at a theater once, was pretty much blown off, went up the chain all the way to the CEO. Yes CEO of Harkins Theaters, Dan Harkins. I was given a full year free of movies.

So EVEN if the minimum wage manager and lowly employee has a problem, keep going up the ladder. If you pay for a service you better be damn straight that something will come out of it.

You get pushed, you push back.

In America. I don't quite see the same results happening in the UK....

That's unfortunate, the whole situation is just gak.

It might work, but we just don't really have the whole "The customer is god" thing drilled into us compared to you guys. Yes you'll see a few people going nuts trying to get their way (had a guy at work the other day threaten to put our pictures all over Facebook if he did not get a refund. He was snapping pictures of the customer service desk staff as he was ranting), as they've clearly never worked in retail, but in general you get this whole empathy in the customer/employee relationship if they've worked in retail