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The OP's story doesn't cast the store employee in a good, smart or consistent light. Whatever the policies and powers in the store are, they should be applied consistently. At least one other teen was hanging out to play, the OP doesn't mention anything about that person buying anything. Besides having not just a rule book but also a codex, there isn't really any difference between the two teens in the story, yet one was kicked out while the other wasn't.

At my local GW Hobby Centre - which has eight places for painting and a 3-4 gaming tables - it is common to see some kids being dropped off there by their parents and some teenagers or young adults being around as well. For the young kids, the parents are typically running an errant and will pick the kids up again within the hour. The teenagers appear to be on their own. If I would work in the store, being a part-time kindergardener wouldn't be a plus. I can only assume that someone considered the local legal implications if something (theft, fight, accident) happens. Most teenagers don't have the deep pockets that working adults have, so their purchase power per head is probably lower - on the other hand, you can catch customers young and get them onto plastic crack before they are distracted by girls or stuff like that. ;-]

From a business point of view, the only reason to tolerate any people in the store (including employees) is because it helps the bottom line. Since it's a clear policy to invite people to build, paint and play in the store, the time spent at the store and reasons for visiting the store increase compared to a normal retail store. On the other hand, there is no loss-leader product needed to lure the hobbyists into the store. If the players then need something, wouldn't you believe it, that thing and the cash register are right there. Amazing coincidence! =]

At the GW Hobby Centre in Aachen (and I think also at other stores) management has jump-started the formation of clubs based in the store. Rather than have random customers agree to play on the fly or somehow organize themselves a club-like organisation is helpfully suggested.

With that I mean to say that GW Stores are designed to engage people in the hobby and have them hang out there - obviously because that generates sales or sales opportunities. That would apply also in the OPs situation. Obviously we don't know what was going on that the OP didn't see, didn't consider relevant or what went through the employees mind. Anyway.

One more tought - isn't it ridiculous how anyone who's not an adult yet is subjected to constant hand-holding? I'm going on 40 years old and I have fond memories of spending the days with the other children from our street hanging out in the pseudo wilderness in the two miles around the street. Ok, once I burned my eyebrows when I dropped a lighter, but there was loads of fun to be had and not one of us needed more than a bandaid over all the years we ran wild. We walked to primary school by ourselves. I had to catch a public bus or ride my bicycle to get to secondary school across the valley. Compared with the 80's, today's kids must all be lobotomized for all that boo-hoo to be warranted.

Ignore the immature comments, find a nice game store or game club and take your money somewhere else, i'll bet that red shirt wouldn't talk to someone like that, if he was older.

 Stephanius wrote:
One more tought - isn't it ridiculous how anyone who's not an adult yet is subjected to constant hand-holding? I'm going on 40 years old and I have fond memories of spending the days with the other children from our street hanging out in the pseudo wilderness in the two miles around the street.

Yeah, this thread and some of the opinions have been sort of mind blowing. When I was this kid's age, I was taking a bus from the Bronx to New Rochelle to go to school, attend school, and afterward either go to the arcade or the movies with my friends before taking the bus back home. My only interaction with my mother was in the morning when she'd give me bus fare - apparently she should have been thrown in jail for leaving in the custody of strangers.

The other comments aside I would deal with this by speaking to the manager, you said he's a good guy so may see it your way and educate him, some people are just idiots and in a situation like this they need to be told to calm down, if they don't walk away a hobby isn't worth being upset about.

A similar story but without quite the same issues...

When I walked into my local store last year to start up again after 15 years one of the staff was on me like a rash with the pressure sales, I walked away. The manager is a great guy and by not trying to sell me anything and just being passionate about GW I will only buy from the shop now and frequently do for the customer service(unless they don't stock it).

Thr last time I saw the 'other guy' he tried telling me I needed 6 different paints to paint a face other wise It will look crap, again the hard sale made me walk away. I think he's a manager at another store now...

I have been to another store recently where unless you where buying you wern't allowed to play or paint, his stance was he is paid to sell gamesworkshop not look after other peoples kids, he did hold a lot of competitions though to balance it out, so I guess childcare on his terms. But he was honest in that being on his own he couldn't 'look' after non paying customers and serve paying customers who keep him in the job day to day.

 Deadshot wrote:
As far as I know in the UK child welfare is paramount above all other matters. Even if that's slightly mistaken, the OPs parents mentioning to the manager orif need be the corporate section, the child welfare act of 19XX will most surely get the OP some serious asskissery by the store/employee in question, in relation to him being kicked out with a"Not my problem." Because if I remember correctly anything that causes potential harm to a child (like the OP said he could've been abducted) is a serious matter. The company wouldn't want an official complaint or lawsuit,, or even the idea of one. The bad publicity would bring to light all their other unsavoury acts.

Where did all this ridiculous abduction talk come from?

The OP is 14. From the age of 12, boys and girls are assumed to be able to make their way to, and back, from a destination independently. That's why they have independent travel cards, and are expected to make their way to school and back on their own. Every day hundreds of thousands of children manage it. For the same reason, GW allow 12 year olds, independently, in their shops. GW are not acting in loco parentis. presumably the OP, like my nipper, has a phone and is capable of telling his parents he'll be home early.

I know the 40k universe is rife with malevolence and extreme violence, but can we quit with all the paranoia?

The OP would do better to remonstrate with the manager as a customer, rather than claiming he's too vulnerable to be allowed out on his own, citing some vague law. But I think he understands that already.

It's interesting hearing about this, especially if you also consider other posts that talk about GW stores not being the same as they used to be. I worked for a short time in GW Bournemouth, around the November / December 2004 time. I remembered the store being busy with kids at the weekend and when the Xmas holidays kicked in. I don't recall any being kicked out for not buying anything. There were things like not eating in the store, using your own paints and no access to the staff loos. Apart from that we used to have kids coming in for games, meeting their mates, painting and putting together army lists.

How things change.

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Where did all this ridiculous abduction talk come from?

The OP is 14. From the age of 12, boys and girls are assumed to be able to make their way to, and back, from a destination independently. That's why they have independent travel cards, and are expected to make their way to school and back on their own. Every day hundreds of thousands of children manage it. For the same reason, GW allow 12 year olds, independently, in their shops. GW are not acting in loco parentis. presumably the OP, like my nipper, has a phone and is capable of telling his parents he'll be home early.

I know the 40k universe is rife with malevolence and extreme violence, but can we quit with all the paranoia?

Funny thing--statistically, the risk of a child being abducted in the UK has actually gone down over the last few decades. But when a child actually is abducted or killed (or there's a development in an older case), it'll be splashed across news headlines for days on end, so the perception of risk is very different from the actual risk.

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
As far as I know in the UK child welfare is paramount above all other matters. Even if that's slightly mistaken, the OPs parents mentioning to the manager orif need be the corporate section, the child welfare act of 19XX will most surely get the OP some serious asskissery by the store/employee in question, in relation to him being kicked out with a"Not my problem." Because if I remember correctly anything that causes potential harm to a child (like the OP said he could've been abducted) is a serious matter. The company wouldn't want an official complaint or lawsuit,, or even the idea of one. The bad publicity would bring to light all their other unsavoury acts.

Where did all this ridiculous abduction talk come from?

The OP is 14. From the age of 12, boys and girls are assumed to be able to make their way to, and back, from a destination independently. That's why they have independent travel cards, and are expected to make their way to school and back on their own. Every day hundreds of thousands of children manage it. For the same reason, GW allow 12 year olds, independently, in their shops. GW are not acting in loco parentis. presumably the OP, like my nipper, has a phone and is capable of telling his parents he'll be home early.

I know the 40k universe is rife with malevolence and extreme violence, but can we quit with all the paranoia?

The OP would do better to remonstrate with the manager as a customer, rather than claiming he's too vulnerable to be allowed out on his own, citing some vague law. But I think he understands that already.

I agree. Pretext that their is some law that prevents 14 yr olds from wondering the street or going into shops is nonsense.

Love all these pseudo lawyers making comments about liability law they know nothing about. Obviously laws vary between countries, but I've been to plenty of shopping malls and movie theaters full of "unaccompanied" 14 yr olds, I started working part time in a supermarket at the age of 15. Didn't need my parents permission for that lol. Any society that won't let 14 yr olds wonder around by themselves is a pretty junk society I wouldn't want to live in.

Obviously its their property and they can kick out whoever they want. Though, kicking out some 14 yr old in a shop I've always assumed encouraged loiters is pretty mean.

 Elemental wrote:

Funny thing--statistically, the risk of a child being abducted in the UK has actually gone down over the last few decades. But when a child actually is abducted or killed (or there's a development in an older case), it'll be splashed across news headlines for days on end, so the perception of risk is very different from the actual risk.

The perception of risk might be a contributing factor in the lowering risk. As well as all the spread of amber alert programs and the coordination of first responders and investigators in a far more organized fashion.

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
One sided original story is one sided. I'd like to hear the full thing before jumping up and denouncing GW staff and policies.

In what universe do you live in where 'both sides' of the story are written out in cases like these? LOL.

Super Newb wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
One sided original story is one sided. I'd like to hear the full thing before jumping up and denouncing GW staff and policies.

In what universe do you live in where 'both sides' of the story are written out in cases like these? LOL.

I would love for the GW redshirt assclown to come defend himself.

 pities2004 wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
One sided original story is one sided. I'd like to hear the full thing before jumping up and denouncing GW staff and policies.

In what universe do you live in where 'both sides' of the story are written out in cases like these? LOL.

I would love for the GW redshirt assclown to come defend himself.

Lol me too, but my point was how often do we hear both sides of a story in threads like these? 1% of the time?

Jumping in and denouncing [whatever] after only hearing one side is how the internet works, lol.

Super Newb wrote:

 pities2004 wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
One sided original story is one sided. I'd like to hear the full thing before jumping up and denouncing GW staff and policies.

In what universe do you live in where 'both sides' of the story are written out in cases like these? LOL.

I would love for the GW redshirt assclown to come defend himself.

Lol me too, but my point was how often do we hear both sides of a story in threads like these? 1% of the time?

Jumping in and denouncing [whatever] after only hearing one side is how the internet works, lol.

This pretty much sums it up.

Super Newb wrote:

 pities2004 wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
One sided original story is one sided. I'd like to hear the full thing before jumping up and denouncing GW staff and policies.

In what universe do you live in where 'both sides' of the story are written out in cases like these? LOL.

I would love for the GW redshirt assclown to come defend himself.

Lol me too, but my point was how often do we hear both sides of a story in threads like these? 1% of the time?

More than that when it comes to these kinds of situations at independent shops. It also comes down to the posting habits of the store players, etc. In some instances, players who were there at the time register explicitly to point out that someone's account varies wildly from what actually happened.

Without putting a post on Games Workshop Chester's Facebook page asking for individuals to come post on Dakka(which would likely be deleted anyways, as GW does not really like people posting links to outside websites on the FB pages and the FB pages are only managed by the local shop manager with GW corporate's web team having complete control over what gets posted when) it is unlikely we will get confirmation of the story one way or the other.

Jumping in and denouncing [whatever] after only hearing one side is how the internet works, lol.

Yep.

It generally comes down to "Have you had a bad experience with X before? If yes, side with Y. If no, side with Z."

You forgot the next step, Kanluwen.

"Once you have picked a side, make sure you make all efforts to insult and demean the other side."

Did I really have to explain that though? I thought it was a given, like the fact that water is wet.

Strayan wrote:
An I see my error, I mistook you for epicwalrus, since you replied to the post directed at him..
I would apologise alas,
You've made a post designed to negate my character and take gross assumptions of my views..
Then proceeded to enjoy my displeasure at that.. I believe society has only JUST developed a five letter word that fits that discription nicely..
So previous statement in leu of apology stands

Let me get this straight. You insult him in error thinking he's someone else. He calls you on it, so rather than admit you're wrong, you double down? Niiiice.

Little bit of advice - you run into an donkey-cave in the morning, you ran into an donkey-cave; you run into donkey-caves all day, you're the donkey-cave.

Bossk_Hogg wrote:

Strayan wrote:
An I see my error, I mistook you for epicwalrus, since you replied to the post directed at him..
I would apologise alas,
You've made a post designed to negate my character and take gross assumptions of my views..
Then proceeded to enjoy my displeasure at that.. I believe society has only JUST developed a five letter word that fits that discription nicely..
So previous statement in leu of apology stands

Let me get this straight. You insult him in error thinking he's someone else. He calls you on it, so rather than admit you're wrong, you double down? Niiiice.

Little bit of advice - you run into an donkey-cave in the morning, you ran into an donkey-cave; you run into donkey-caves all day, you're the donkey-cave.

thank you but we sorted it out via PM.

After 12 pages, I guess I can comment as it's been an interesting read. Certainly seen into the psyche of some posters. I'm typing on my phone, so I won't throw direct quotes out. Alex, it sounds like you got a raw deal, but a second view from the redshirt would be a nice addition, as there are always two views on each confrontation, and he may have something to add that you left out, innocently or maliciously. Courtesies out of the way, you tried to be a paying customer: he should have offered to sell a gift card so you could buy the case right then and there, or your dad being willing to pay later should have been okay too. Next, playing, you said the other guy had a rulebook: sharing should have been okay, unless the store has a policy of needing your own (and has stressed this before/has it written). You tried to be a paying customer, tried to play a game, and tried to write a list to map out purchases. Based on the only info we have (your side), you should have been allowed to stay. I'm not touching the "law for minors" stuff as it's UK law, and different from US law: something other US posters aren't understanding. UK has different laws from us: kids are allowed to drink and screw younger than US teens too, and see boobs on the television. UK posters, you understand your laws, okay. Obviously your thoughts on the matter hold weight, US posters playing 'minor' and 'law' cards need to just stop: you're making yourself look bad. Really bad.

Alex, your thought to discuss with the manager is a good one, maybe ask to have a sit down with him, the redshirt and your parents. Don't let it discourage you to keep playing a game you love, or going to a store you love but have had a single bad experience at. Good luck. And I'll say, having experience working with kids, you've been much more grown up than most kids two or three years older than you. Just leave out the threats of what could happen to you if you're thrown out. It doesn't help. But at 14 (14 years ago), I may have responded similarly. We also had far different thoughts on teenagers hanging out back then.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Did I really have to explain that though? I thought it was a given, like the fact that water is wet.

Wrong. Water is not wet. Things exposed to water get wet.

wet
[wet] Show IPA adjective, wet·ter, wet·test, noun, verb, wet or wet·ted, wet·ting.
adjective
1.
moistened, covered, or soaked with water or some other liquid: wet hands.
2.
in a liquid form or state: wet paint.
3.
characterized by the presence or use of water or other liquid.
4.
moistened or dampened with rain; rainy: Wet streets make driving hazardous.
5.
allowing or favoring the sale of alcoholic beverages: a wet town.

Wouldn't water fall under point #2?

I am not going to get into semantics to justify my smartassery, loki!

Some great, helpful stuff on this thread for Alex. Like people claiming that water is not characterised by the presence of water.

Really shows how the interwebz can throw light on a problem.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I am not going to get into semantics to justify my smartassery, loki!

Ha ha ha ha no probs.
@Jburch

Wouldn't water fall under point #2? no.

Sorry to hear Op you had this happen. The staff member was out of line and hopefully you can talk to the manager and straighten things out like others have said. GW's stores main strength I feel ( at least in the past) has been being a hub for people to come and share their hobby experiences. Especially in marginal areas where there might not be a big wargaming community or hobby clubs catering to the game. I know for me it was that way when i got into the game back in my teens. I would spend at least 2-3 days of the week at my local one painting, swapping army list ideas, discussing the fluff and playing games of 40k and fantasy. Fostering that kind of community atmosphere and inclusion is part of what made GW the size of company it is. So yeah it isn't like other shops. It's a shame when people like that staff member sully that atmosphere.

And all the best in your wargaming OP. Plus good job on the well articulated posting.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Sigh, I would wonder if people not reading my posts is because they read the first one and are disregarding me because I am full of 'Whiney Teenage Bollox', but that theory involves people reading my posts in the first place... Thanks guys for the support. Although it does bring up the debate of if teenagers should be allowed in the store unsupervised, even when the (Admittedly scant) advertising is clearly targeted at people my age.

This post does not discredit your being full of "whiny teenage bollox".

Honestly, the fact that you chose to post it here rather than actually contact the manager first is what goes against you in my eyes.
I looked at GW Chester's page and saw that you did post on there, which I approve of--but I think that you should have actually included a link to this thread as well in case the employee in question decides to tell his own side of the story.

I stopped reading right here, four more pages to go and this is where I stopped. I underlined where I have issue here. Kanluwen, this young hobbyist has contacted us for help on how best to approach this situation. Some of us see this thankfully, I however find issue with your stance. So far as I have read, there is nothing correct this boy can do correctly in your eyes based on your responses in this thread up to this point. I will point out that it is you whom has narrowed his willingness to understand the situation from both sides. I respectfully ask you to simply read what this boy has said thus far and take off your grump hat. You would be pleased to see that he is approaching this situation that he does not know how to handle by himself by coming to the community and asking us for help. He has given us his side of the story with relatively little nay-saying which is a rarity in the youth at his age. You should be proud the likes of this child is among our ranks.

In honesty, you should apologize for your narrow-sightedness in advising this boy with his issue. Cause frankly, he didn't ask for your stance about him, he asked for your help in how to handle this situation.

 Xzerios wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Sigh, I would wonder if people not reading my posts is because they read the first one and are disregarding me because I am full of 'Whiney Teenage Bollox', but that theory involves people reading my posts in the first place... Thanks guys for the support. Although it does bring up the debate of if teenagers should be allowed in the store unsupervised, even when the (Admittedly scant) advertising is clearly targeted at people my age.

This post does not discredit your being full of "whiny teenage bollox".

Honestly, the fact that you chose to post it here rather than actually contact the manager first is what goes against you in my eyes.
I looked at GW Chester's page and saw that you did post on there, which I approve of--but I think that you should have actually included a link to this thread as well in case the employee in question decides to tell his own side of the story.

I stopped reading right here, four more pages to go and this is where I stopped. I underlined where I have issue here. Kanluwen, this young hobbyist has contacted us for help on how best to approach this situation. Some of us see this thankfully, I however find issue with your stance. So far as I have read, there is nothing correct this boy can do correctly in your eyes based on your responses in this thread up to this point. I will point out that it is you whom has narrowed his willingness to understand the situation from both sides. I respectfully ask you to simply read what this boy has said thus far and take off your grump hat. You would be pleased to see that he is approaching this situation that he does not know how to handle by himself by coming to the community and asking us for help. He has given us his side of the story with relatively little nay-saying which is a rarity in the youth at his age. You should be proud the likes of this child is among our ranks.

In honesty, you should apologize for your narrow-sightedness in advising this boy with his issue. Cause frankly, he didn't ask for your stance about him, he asked for your help in how to handle this situation.

And also, wouldn't this of fallen into your (? I'm not sure, there seems to be a lot of people who seem to think I'm lying, nay saying, rude, malicious and I'm sure someone called me poor somewhere...) Category of saying that I've just came here to 'Drum up negative feed back towards the staff member' because I would of already resolved the problem if I had talked to the manager already? Also the manager was on holiday, other wise this situation never would of occurred. I am glad you approve of my facebook status (Although it puts the whole abduction thing closer in my mind to be looked up ; please no I'm Joking) as I did try not to put any details in it really, as I didn't want to inconvenience his time off with my situation when he could easily deal with it when he gets back (And would get paid for the time).

Also I would like to thank all the people complimenting my posting, that cheers up my day. You should just feel lucky that I do take the time, if I didn't write in on Word and C+P it here I'm not sure it would've been readable

Edit, Ha, guess Word doesn't pick up everything

Dam skippe Xzerios!

Well allow me to contribute to a young person's education.

When referring to your possible actions in the past tense, it is would have, could have or at worst would've and should've, it is NEVER would of.

Otherwise, yes, you seem to post above your age by a margin.

But he still spell compliment correctly, when it is so often confused with complement... nor did he talk about performing bodily functions in the shop...

so he comfortably exceeds the level of most posts here.