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 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Quit whining because you were asked not to loiter. Remember why any store exists: making money. It isn't a library or a lounge.

Agreed.

This has been an.... interesting read. But it seems to me that the actions of a store worker are the least of the issues. He was supposed to hang around a shop until 5.30 because both his parents were at work? THAT is the bigger issue!

UltraPrime wrote:
This has been an.... interesting read. But it seems to me that the actions of a store worker are the least of the issues. He was supposed to hang around a shop until 5.30 because both his parents were at work? THAT is the bigger issue!

It's perfectly legal to leave a child unsupervised at 14. Whether you should or not is another debate, and IMO depends on the child. My folks did, but then again I could have been accused of being fairly mature for my age, as, it would seem, Alex is.

UltraPrime wrote:
This has been an.... interesting read. But it seems to me that the actions of a store worker are the least of the issues. He was supposed to hang around a shop until 5.30 because both his parents were at work? THAT is the bigger issue!

I was left unattended a lot when I was mature enough to act like an adult. Some people's parents both work full time and can't afford a babysitter.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Even here in the US I cannot imagine that going anywhere unless there is a huge amount of complaints about the employee in question.

You are obviously just a troll but I will post anyway. In America you will be taken VERY seriously if you complain to a manager in a retail chain. And I mean VERY SERIOUSLY. I have worked at Babies R Us, Office Depot, and Barnes and Nobles and if you get a hold of a store manager and explain that situation there will not only be a good amount of trouble for the employee but you will also probably get something free. Now if you get a hold of the district manager someone might actually get fired.

Now I have never lived in the UK or shopped there so I don't know what would happen over there but I find it amusing that people like Nkelsch and Kanluwen are so ignorant of the how customer oriented retail chains are in the US.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 FarseerAndyMan wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Quit whining because you were asked not to loiter. Remember why any store exists: making money. It isn't a library or a lounge.

Do you just troll to make people mad or are you some sort of a white knight?

Your a jerk dude and this kid has every right to be a little upset.

I dont care if you tend a bar or tend a horse trough, this kid is a paying customer and to be told to buy something or get out is outrageous!!!

Hey solo--buy some advertising space or get out!!!

Apparently, he wasn't in the buying mood then and he was loitering. Both of my FLGSs have had issues with loiterers. When I go to them to play, I purchase something. Game stores are not lounges, libraries, or daycare centers; they are businesses. And if it was within the clerk's rights to ask him to leave, he had that option.

Solofalcon stop lying about the situation. He wasn't loitering. Stop being a troll for the purpose of causing trouble. It makes you look small minded and ignorant.

Customers are liars, and you are under a self-important delusion if you think a one-sided uncorroborated complaint gets someone easily fired in the US. Giving free gak is a payoff for delusional people who think they are getting people fired because their issue is so legitimate even when it isn't.

Pattern of behavior or witnessed events which can be documented may lead someone to being disciplined, but never one-sided customer complaints, in fact if you were to do that, the employee could have equal recourse for wrongful termination or even sue the customer if they made fraudulent statements.

Asking a loitering teen to leave isn't going to get anyone fired. Especially a one-sided complaint from a mouthy teen who had to have the threat of police being called.

And yes, he was loitering, he was there a prolonged amount of time, and if a store says leave, you leave. You don't ever have a right to stay on private property, and if you get told to "move along" and you don't, you transcend from loitering to trespassing when on private property.

When I witness unreasonable abusive customers, I make an effort to tell the manager that the customer complaining was unreasonable and abusive to his employees. Yes, the complaining customer may have gotten swag, and the good manager sequestered the employee in what appears to be "punishment" but it is more to protect the staff and diffuse the situation, a lot of the time, the manager knows what a liar and unreasonable mess the customer was and not a dang thing happens to the employee.

You pretty much have to break the law with a customer to be fired on the spot from a customer complaint. To believe anything else is delusional because it simply is not true. This employee will not be fired due to the "complaints" of an unsupervised teen abandon by his parents and loitering in the store without all his gaming materials and not buying anything after multiple hours who got visibly angry when asked to leave, and argued to the point the police had to be referenced.

brettz123 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Even here in the US I cannot imagine that going anywhere unless there is a huge amount of complaints about the employee in question.

You are obviously just a troll but I will post anyway. In America you will be taken VERY seriously if you complain to a manager in a retail chain. And I mean VERY SERIOUSLY. I have worked at Babies R Us, Office Depot, and Barnes and Nobles and if you get a hold of a store manager and explain that situation there will not only be a good amount of trouble for the employee but you will also probably get something free. Now if you get a hold of the district manager someone might actually get fired.

Now I have never lived in the UK or shopped there so I don't know what would happen over there but I find it amusing that people like Nkelsch and Kanluwen are so ignorant of the how customer oriented retail chains are in the US.

I love how your first statement is "You are obviously just a troll" and then you go on to explain that you've worked retail...yet you seem to not have worked retail.

Do you know how hard it is to get an employee fired on the basis of one person's experience in a shop that is organized like GW?
There's no "district manager" and very rarely are there "store managers" that are not also the employee you would be complaining about.
It is essentially a franchise that unless there are a systematic number of complaints, nothing besides verbal reprimands will happen.

nkelsch wrote:
Customers are liars, and you are under a self-important delusion if you think a one-sided uncorroborated complaint gets someone easily fired in the US. Giving free gak is a payoff for delusional people who think they are getting people fired because their issue is so legitimate even when it isn't.

Pattern of behavior or witnessed events which can be documented may lead someone to being disciplined, but never one-sided customer complaints, in fact if you were to do that, the employee could have equal recourse for wrongful termination or even sue the customer if they made fraudulent statements.

Asking a loitering teen to leave isn't going to get anyone fired. Especially a one-sided complaint from a mouthy teen who had to have the threat of police being called.

And yes, he was loitering, he was there a prolonged amount of time, and if a store says leave, you leave. You don't ever have a right to stay on private property, and if you get told to "move along" and you don't, you transcend from loitering to trespassing when on private property.

When I witness unreasonable abusive customers, I make an effort to tell the manager that the customer complaining was unreasonable and abusive to his employees. Yes, the complaining customer may have gotten swag, and the good manager sequestered the employee in what appears to be "punishment" but it is more to protect the staff and diffuse the situation, a lot of the time, the manager knows what a liar and unreasonable mess the customer was and not a dang thing happens to the employee.

You pretty much have to break the law with a customer to be fired on the spot from a customer complaint. To believe anything else is delusional because it simply is not true. This employee will not be fired due to the "complaints" of an unsupervised teen abandon by his parents and loitering in the store without all his gaming materials and not buying anything after multiple hours who got visibly angry when asked to leave, and argued to the point the police had to be referenced.

You got a nice view from that high horse? I've worked plenty of retail jobs and seen people get fired for just about anything you can think of. More than one customer complaint will usually do it, which is why people should always speak to a manager if an employee is being a douche canoe. The situation was handled poorly by the employee.

I've personally never had anything quite this bad happen, luckily I'm not overly short, or unimposing, so the worst I've had is a manager ask if there was anything in particular I wanted, I said I was just browsing and hoping for a game, and they left me to it.

I would definitely have a word with the manager, partaking in the hobby, within the hobby premises is no reason to be kicked out, and neither is not having a rule book. That's like being kicked out of game, because you didn't bring your Xbox with you to prove you can play the games! I've spent hours in my local GW just chatting about the games and painting, browsing the shelves and writing lists, and that's with a what I thought was a strict manager running the store.

If talking to the manager solves nothing, get your mum to go into the store and complain, nothing intimidates a store worker like an angry parent!

UltraPrime wrote:
This has been an.... interesting read. But it seems to me that the actions of a store worker are the least of the issues. He was supposed to hang around a shop until 5.30 because both his parents were at work? THAT is the bigger issue!

I agree it would be better to hang around an art gallery or a sports field, but we live in a consumer society.

Interesting read. To the OP, congratulations on some pretty clear communication. I teach your age group and your writing skills are pretty good compared to many of your peers. Also you seem to have a fairly mature outlook.

A point for those saying the point of the store is to make money- in a hobby store for a niche hobby like GW, the most successful way to make money is to foster a community. This means making a place for people to engage in their hobby. The OP could quite easily have spent the money in his pocket on some video games and sat at home and played them, possibly even "with friends" over X Box live. That's what most of the students I deal with in his age group do in their leisure time. If someone is interested in the hobby it's good for the store to provide a place to meet likeminded people and actually engage in the hobby. If GW forget that, they're going to end up losing out I think.

Oh, and yeah, hell yeah, to 14 year olds should have some independence. Bad parenting is smothering a teenager and not allowing them to learn for themselves.

why is everyone saying this kid is so mature? He only left the shop after the worker threatened to call the police...clearly his response to being asked to leave wasn't 'well it seems unreasonable to me, but it's your shop. Expect a talking to from your manager.', more like he tried argueing and making a scene. Definitely not 'mature', and if i'd have been there i'd have gotten in touch with the manager myself, in support of the e
mployee.
Op i asked this earlier - where do you live in the uk that your busses only run every four hours?

Well, I was in a village in Wales on my holiday where the buses were that infrequent, I assume it's that way in many rural areas.

Growing up in rural Ireland, we had three buses a day.

and these rural villages have games workshops? Im pretty sure in the uk theyre all in city centres.

xruslanx wrote:
and these rural villages have games workshops? Im pretty sure in the uk theyre all in city centres.

I'll give that trolling 0/10

Nice try, though.

xruslanx wrote:
why is everyone saying this kid is so mature? He only left the shop after the worker threatened to call the police...clearly his response to being asked to leave wasn't 'well it seems unreasonable to me, but it's your shop. Expect a talking to from your manager.', more like he tried argueing and making a scene. Definitely not 'mature', and if i'd have been there i'd have gotten in touch with the manager myself, in support of the e
mployee.
Op i asked this earlier - where do you live in the uk that your busses only run every four hours?

People are saying he's mature because he has calmly and politely replied to gak like this, rather than ranting and raving and getting himself banned or the thread locked.

Take it from someone who lives in a rural area, there are plenty of places that only get a few buses a day. There are villages around here that are no more than a 25 minutes or so away from the largest town, yet to travel between them by bus would require catching a two or three times a day service to the next nearest town, then a change to a more regular service to the large town. This can take almost an hour itself without considering waiting around for buses at each point in the journey.

id appreciate the op saying where he lives rather than other posters chipping in and assuming he lives in the sticks. I also think that refusing to leave a store when the employee asks you too, then deciding that the best way of dealing with that is by making a public post on the store's facebook, definitely is not mature. That honestly sounds like the actions of a 10 year old, 14 year olds should know better.

Now we can ask, why were his parents okay with him spending his entire day in a commercial establishment, when they (presumably) know how sporadic the busses
are? How could a responsable parent think its okay for him to do that, knowing that he'll have to walk the streets until the evening time if he gets kicked out? With an entire army's worth of models no less.

Then when we factor in that he showed no interest in ordering the case, something the store clerk would have definitely offered, and he looks like a kid who bought his models online, pirates the pdf and insists on being able to play in a gw simply by pretending to want to buy something that's out of stock.

xruslanx wrote:
id appreciate the op saying where he lives rather than other posters chipping in and assuming he lives in the sticks. I also think that refusing to leave a store when the employee asks you too, then deciding that the best way of dealing with that is by making a public post on the store's facebook, definitely is not mature. That honestly sounds like the actions of a 10 year old, 14 year olds should know better.

Now we can ask, why were his parents okay with him spending his entire day in a commercial establishment, when they (presumably) know how sporadic the busses
are? How could a responsable parent think its okay for him to do that, knowing that he'll have to walk the streets until the evening time if he gets kicked out? With an entire army's worth of models no less.

Then when we factor in that he showed no interest in ordering the case, something the store clerk would have definitely offered, and he looks like a kid who bought his models online, pirates the pdf and insists on being able to play in a gw simply by pretending to want to buy something that's out of stock.

To my knowledge there has been no claim about the OP pirating things which is quite an accusation to make out of the blue. OP has stated he will be talking it over with the store manager and since only the employee and OP have the full story that seems like the best course of action.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Quit whining because you were asked not to loiter. Remember why any store exists: making money. It isn't a library or a lounge.

This is my reaction as well.

As always, I'm sure there's a bit more to this story.

xruslanx wrote:
id appreciate the op saying where he lives rather than other posters chipping in and assuming he lives in the sticks. I also think that refusing to leave a store when the employee asks you too, then deciding that the best way of dealing with that is by making a public post on the store's facebook, definitely is not mature. That honestly sounds like the actions of a 10 year old, 14 year olds should know better.

Now we can ask, why were his parents okay with him spending his entire day in a commercial establishment, when they (presumably) know how sporadic the busses
are? How could a responsable parent think its okay for him to do that, knowing that he'll have to walk the streets until the evening time if he gets kicked out? With an entire army's worth of models no less.

Then when we factor in that he showed no interest in ordering the case, something the store clerk would have definitely offered, and he looks like a kid who bought his models online, pirates the pdf and insists on being able to play in a gw simply by pretending to want to buy something that's out of stock.

He said his father would come in and place the order on credit card after work in one of his earlier posts. No mention of pirated rules, and he was making a list to plan out future purchases in the store (I'm assuming he would give his dad the cash he had for the case to go on credit card, and would have to build back up for another purchase later). Nowhere in his posts does he say he pirates rules or buys models elsewhere. Try reading posts next time, instead of just jumping to ridiculous conclusions: it helps to keep YOU from looking like a 10 year old. Also, you want a 14 year old kid to tell you what town he lives in on the internet? Great call, buddy. Other posters in similar areas have posted it's quite possible, based on their living situation. If it was an adult posting, fair enough: his location is acceptable to ask for. A minor though? Give me a break.

re read my post. I didnt accuse him of pirating, i said he looks like he did. How many times do you think gw stores have people who 'forgot' their codex or 'know it off by heart'? It's weird that people are so eager to view things from the pov of a child, rather than the adult.

Think about this for a moment - you dont know this kid, he shows up with a load of models but no rulebook (since he apparently cant fit it in - make of that what you will), refuses to make even a token purchase and proceeds to take up valuable floorspace, intending to do so for hours. All because *he says* that he's spent tonnes of money there in the past. Oh and when you try to kick him out, he refuses.

Yeah i'm sorry but i'm totally on the side of the adult on this one. It may be a missunderstanding but that doesn't mean anyone is to blame, welcome to the real world.

It's pretty much a given that when someone tells a story about how they were mistreated that there will be some who pop up to blame the person making the complaint. And others that will recognize that the complaint only represents one half the story. And others that will instantly side the person. We don't come to any situation without our preconceived ideas and most people are more than willing to form passionately held conclusions on the flimsiest of evidence. However on the internet. people can also hide behind their keyboards and insult people.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of the actual situation, the original poster Alex handled the whole range of responses very, very well.

xruslanx wrote:
id appreciate the op saying where he lives rather than other posters chipping in and assuming he lives in the sticks. I also think that refusing to leave a store when the employee asks you too, then deciding that the best way of dealing with that is by making a public post on the store's facebook, definitely is not mature. That honestly sounds like the actions of a 10 year old, 14 year olds should know better.

Yeah, cause nobody in the course of human history has done something that was inadvisable because they felt aggrieved, angry or upset.

Now we can ask, why were his parents okay with him spending his entire day in a commercial establishment, when they (presumably) know how sporadic the busses
are? How could a responsable parent think its okay for him to do that, knowing that he'll have to walk the streets until the evening time if he gets kicked out? With an entire army's worth of models no less.

He was doing something he has done before, what possible reason could anybody have had to suspect that it wouldn't be the same? ie He would be able to play a game at the store without being kicked out?

Then when we factor in that he showed no interest in ordering the case, something the store clerk would have definitely offered, and he looks like a kid who bought his models online, pirates the pdf and insists on being able to play in a gw simply by pretending to want to buy something that's out of stock.

Firstly, you're making assumptions about the assistant 's behaviour (that he would have offered to order it) to support your argument while claiming others making assumptions about the OP are wrong? Explain that please.

Secondly, the OP was in fact a regular customer of the shop, had spent a large percentage of his income on product from that shop, and for a new staff member to not give the benefit of the doubt on the first time of meeting is just wrong. I've had customers that I've written off as time wasters after three or four visits to my store, but to do so on the first occasion is just ridiculous, especially when he appears to have gone in with cash to spend.

I have always been told GW stores were usually pressuring you into buying stuff or they don't know what they are talking about but this is bad. Talk to the manager, if nothing is done, don't spend anymore money there and find a friendly store nearby. Tell the manager you won't spend anymore money there if you at least don't get an apology, that will get his gears going.
I go to a local comic book store that has tabletop days, many people just show up to hang out and talk warhammer.
There are plenty friendly stores out there which you can play, hangout, meet people and get stuff cheaper.

p8ntba1141ife wrote:
Tell the manager you won't spend anymore money there if you at least don't get an apology, that will get his gears going.

That is the exact opposite of what Alex should do. People have already pointed this out. Telling someone that you won't buy there anymore is a terrible idea. It shows immaturity and is what you should not do. Why would you want to 'get his gears going'? It's just not what you should do if you want to get a good response.

 redkeyboard wrote:

p8ntba1141ife wrote:
Tell the manager you won't spend anymore money there if you at least don't get an apology, that will get his gears going.

That is the exact opposite of what Alex should do. People have already pointed this out. Telling someone that you won't buy there anymore is a terrible idea. It shows immaturity and is what you should not do. Why would you want to 'get his gears going'? It's just not what you should do if you want to get a good response.

Plus there is the obvious point, that its not the blokes own small business, its a multinational.

I figure the manager wouldn't give a flying feth if one guy decided to boycott the store anyway!

You know Alex, the biggest lesson from this entire business is that there are idiots in all walks of life. Forget about it and move on.

 redkeyboard wrote:

p8ntba1141ife wrote:
Tell the manager you won't spend anymore money there if you at least don't get an apology, that will get his gears going.

That is the exact opposite of what Alex should do. People have already pointed this out. Telling someone that you won't buy there anymore is a terrible idea. It shows immaturity and is what you should not do. Why would you want to 'get his gears going'? It's just not what you should do if you want to get a good response.

Especially considering Alex said that he's been going there for a good while now. He likely gets on very well with his GW store manager, so to turn around and try to "get his gears going" so you say, would be immature indeed.

xruslanx wrote:
why is everyone saying this kid is so mature? He only left the shop after the worker threatened to call the police...clearly his response to being asked to leave wasn't 'well it seems unreasonable to me, but it's your shop. Expect a talking to from your manager.', more like he tried argueing and making a scene. Definitely not 'mature', and if i'd have been there i'd have gotten in touch with the manager myself, in support of the employee.
Op i asked this earlier - where do you live in the uk that your busses only run every four hours?

According to your laws over there, that's what the manager at the time should have done from the start; from the moment Alex walked in and he could confirm that he was without adult supervision. Skipping past that, I want to ask you this question. How does having your afternoon plans of about four to five hours taken away from you sound? If you were faced with this situation, how would you react? Frankly, again; the manager was in the wrong at both points in this situation and Alex behaved fairly mild mannered for a child of his age which is to say exactly as expected given the circumstanced provided.

Now then, I do agree with the other side that it would be nice to hear the other side of this story.

nkelsch wrote:
Customers are liars, and you are under a self-important delusion if you think a one-sided uncorroborated complaint gets someone easily fired in the US. Giving free gak is a payoff for delusional people who think they are getting people fired because their issue is so legitimate even when it isn't.

I absolutely agree with you Nklesch. Having worked McDs for four years I have seen adults act like children in my store. Lying and the like just to get what they wanted. However, I must point out to you that you and I are both on this side of the pond. Our way of thinking does not make it their way of thinking as well.

nkelsch wrote:
Asking a loitering teen to leave isn't going to get anyone fired. Especially a one-sided complaint from a mouthy teen who had to have the threat of police being called.

According to the laws there again, thats what the manager should have done from the on set. From the story we have here, that's not what transpired.

nkelsch wrote:
And yes, he was loitering, he was there a prolonged amount of time, and if a store says leave, you leave. You don't ever have a right to stay on private property, and if you get told to "move along" and you don't, you transcend from loitering to trespassing when on private property.

See above, I will however, agree with you on the second half as that statement is correct.

nkelsch wrote:
You pretty much have to break the law with a customer to be fired on the spot from a customer complaint. To believe anything else is delusional because it simply is not true. This employee will not be fired due to the "complaints" of an unsupervised teen abandon by his parents and loitering in the store without all his gaming materials and not buying anything after multiple hours who got visibly angry when asked to leave, and argued to the point the police had to be referenced.

See, the problem with your take on this situation Nklesch is your perspective is from that of an American. You are thinking with our laws at the forefront and that is not the case with this situation. This happened in the UK, not here. To think with our laws is a fallacy as our laws are non-applicative. Most moral folks will agree with you that the manager was not in the wrong to threaten to call the police; hell, I don't either. However, the breakdown in this situation is that according to the laws across the pond, that's what the manager should have done from the start. No attempted transaction or attempted sale. Hell, not even a "would you like to buy a pot of paint?". A simple notification along the lines of:

"Hey, I saw you two walk in here and unless you have an adult bringing up the rear in a moment, I'm going to have to ask you two to leave."

Escalation to the police call from there as required. That's how this situation should have been handled per the law to be correct, however we both can assume that's not what happened. Reason I have little doubt to believe Alex is because of the situation as a whole; these are one/two-man stores with the whole premise of doing what? Making money. So, the conclusion I come to when I see members of our community jump on the "RAWR! Angst-y Teenager!" diatribe, is that I can't think of you as any better than that. I also expect a higher standard than that because of the nature of our community.

The point I'm making is, Alex reacted as anyone would expect a 14 year old teen to the situation. The manager did not act like an adult, nor a manager tasked with charge of that store given that situation. He simply wanted a sale and that's not how this situation should have been handled.

xruslanx wrote:
re read my post. I didnt accuse him of pirating, i said he looks like he did. How many times do you think gw stores have people who 'forgot' their codex or 'know it off by heart'? It's weird that people are so eager to view things from the pov of a child, rather than the adult.

Think about this for a moment - you dont know this kid, he shows up with a load of models but no rulebook (since he apparently cant fit it in - make of that what you will), refuses to make even a token purchase and proceeds to take up valuable floorspace, intending to do so for hours. All because *he says* that he's spent tonnes of money there in the past. Oh and when you try to kick him out, he refuses.

Yeah i'm sorry but i'm totally on the side of the adult on this one. It may be a missunderstanding but that doesn't mean anyone is to blame, welcome to the real world.

Lets make it simple for you.
Alex "Hi I'd like to buy a large case for my models, this ones too small."

GW employee, "the large one is sixty pounds, but we have none in stock."

Alex "shame I've just managed to save up the money for it"

GW employee" well give me the money, and I can give you a load of stuff you don't need"

Alex "no thanks I really want a large game case"

GW employee wanders off to talk young kid out of pocket money.

Alex and friend set up game, Alex has no rule book only his codex. his friend has one so they share.

GW employee says" wheres your rule book?

Alex replies "I had to leave it at home" too big for this case"(large new rule book)

GW guy "well you can't play then, put your models away.

Alex does as he is told, puts army away. And starts to create army wish list.( future things to buy).

GW guy you can stop that get out.

Alex I have spent approximately 800 pounds here, every penny I've had, for Christmas and birthdays etc, and your treating me like this.

GW guy"yes though isn't it, get out or I'll call the police"

Alex leaves, and sits outside, where some thug kicks his case and breaks some of his models.

There that was as simple as I could make it.
TLDR Tough your loss