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It was a sad day.. My favorite pastime was to file down my old GW pewter models and eat all the lead shavings I could... Then the world banned it!!

..how dare they.

 Skinnereal wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
fan-fiction

Um, where?
How is HG Wells tied up with Citadel?

He isn't. The company was started to handle Ral Partha miniatures in the UK and to introduce their own miniatures. The two were consolidated later on as GW was only stocking citadel miniatures anyway.


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 insaniak wrote:


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 xttz wrote:
And if you're wondering, yes it was accompanied by a price increase justified by 'better quality'.

Actually the White Dwarf article on it, while mentioning the better quality, pinned the price increase as an unfortunate side-effect of tin being more expensive than lead.

It was 'great news' as I recall. They claimed that it was easier to convert and better for modellers, in one way or another. Except tin is a hard metal, if you bend it a few times it cracks so parts like banner poles are more liable to breaking off. Lead is quite soft so much easier to straighten out safely. Then lead is much softer for cutting, drilling and filing. White metal figures are just a lot more work in that regard and wear out your files. They made the change so they could market the miniatures to younger audiences, it served no purpose to the modeller.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:

Actually the White Dwarf article on it, while mentioning the better quality, pinned the price increase as an unfortunate side-effect of tin being more expensive than lead.

It was 'great news' as I recall. They claimed that it was easier to convert and better for modellers, in one way or another. Except tin is a hard metal, if you bend it a few times it cracks so parts like banner poles are more liable to breaking off. Lead is quite soft so much easier to straighten out safely. Then lead is much softer for cutting, drilling and filing. White metal figures are just a lot more work in that regard and wear out your files. They made the change so they could market the miniatures to younger audiences, it served no purpose to the modeller.

Really? The change was because of the industry wide ban on lead. It had nothing to do with marketing minis to the kiddies. These GW conspiracy theories truly amaze me sometimes.

Some miniatures companies still use lead in their figures. So it can't be much of a ban.

 Skinnereal wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
fan-fiction

Um, where?
How is HG Wells tied up with Citadel?

No, the whole part about Steve Jackson is fiction. The part about HG Wells is correct.

SJ

It was 1997.

I know, I was a GW Manager at the time.

There was no 'hate' over the change as we sold off the old stock at some very good deals! Huge discounts made in stores.

We had a final 'all must go' sale weekend. Was great fun.

I sold so much I did 103% of my stores monthly target in two days.

Only moans I heard after the pewter change (which was to do with a ban in New York State regarding Lead I seem to remember - US produed figures had pewter in them for sometime) was that it was harder to work with.



And no HG Wells had nothing to do with Games Workshop... Unless he did it after being dead for a consoiderable length of time.

The inability to read is astounding.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The inability to read is astounding.

Inability to read what? You made a comment about HG Wells being associated with Citadel. People disagreed with this claim. If you have something that people can read to back up your statement, feel free to post it.

Politely.


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 Super Ready wrote:
GW was founded by Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone (Steve Jackson of Steve Jackson games, and Ian Livingstone has since made his way into videogaming - both were previously responsible for the Fighting Fantasy series of gamebooks, among other things).

While the Fighting Fantasy part is correct, the Steve Jackson of Steve Jackson Games is not the Steve Jackson who worked with Ian Livingstone. From memory, he even says as much on the SJG website... or used to, at least

The various Steve Jacksons:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jackson_(UK_game_designer)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jackson_(US_game_designer)

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
Wait, what? So it was GW who came up with "White Metal" for the miniatures for the very first time? This is interesting to know.

Not at all.

"White metal" isn't AN alloy - it's a FAMILY of alloys used for casting with similar properties. Pewter is a white metal alloy, but not all WMAs are pewter.

GW didn't invent "White metal" in the same way they didn't invent "marines in powered armour who fight in space".

Ral Partha had their own lead-free WMA (called "Ralidium"). GW's lead free forays in the early 90s were a harder alloy (Higher tin content) that frequently broke the clippers people used in stores - or led to shrapnel being flung around the store ("Somebody get that - It's the head and I need it.") when they went lead free and it took a number of years for them to get to a casting alloy that was a little softer, yet retained similar flow and casting properties of their previous WMA.

There wasn't a worldwide ban on lead in "toy soldiers" (there was one for "TOYS" - but this is also why certain brands of figures had "This is not a toy" labels). There was a proposed Bill in NY state that never passed - but the preparations put in place "just in case it did" meant that it became financially unviable to switch back by the time they had put the new alloys into production. Once one company switched over to lead free, others followed, then the momentum took over.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The inability to read is astounding.

SJ

Please quote sources. Wells died in 1946, GW was founded in 1976 and citadel in 1979 according to an old white dwarf(#11 I think).
Unless he got a time machine, I don't see how that worked out.

*edit* Issue 11 page 10 under news

 dreamakuma wrote:
Unless he got a time machine, I don't see how that worked out.

Well, he did *write* one...

For the UK-based company called Citadel Miniatures:

CITADEL MINIATURES LIMITED
Company No. 01406910
Date of Incorporation: 28/12/1978
No previous name information has been recorded over the last 20 years.

From here:
http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/

 Super Ready wrote:

 dreamakuma wrote:
Unless he got a time machine, I don't see how that worked out.

Well, he did *write* one...

You good sir, have the same great humor, Exalt!

 Skinnereal wrote:
For the UK-based company called Citadel Miniatures:

CITADEL MINIATURES LIMITED
Company No. 01406910
Date of Incorporation: 28/12/1978
No previous name information has been recorded over the last 20 years.

From here:
http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/

That correlates with my magazine. WD #11 was in Feb/Mar of 1979 and that states late December of 1978, with stuff waiting to print and such it's strong evidence of 1979 Being the first year of the company in production.

My 2nd ed Metal warphead is lead, I have some 3rd ed orks that are not.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Some miniatures companies still use lead in their figures. So it can't be much of a ban.

This is a more recent development thanks to legal acrobatics.

GW (and other companies ) had to comply with a UK ban on lead in almost all consumer goods ( wargame miniatures were classed as toys) in 1992( I think?). The US and Canada followed with similar bans soon after.

More recently some companies have reclassed what they sell as "collectables" so different rules apply and lead can be used. For example Reaper launched the P65 range.

Lead has been demonized pretty badly so it seems the trend is to go with "safer" plastics and resins.

You can thank Al Gore's wife for the change from lead. Some DA let his kids chew on his lead army men and they got lead poisoning. Then Tipper Gore ran with it. IIRC is was 1987.

I've got report saying in febuary 1997 White dwarf mentioned it, now that would make it issue 205 Here in the US, But I can't find the Article in the issue. Any help for clarification?

My source http://www.lead.org.au/lasn/lasn014.html

It's amazing how many bite over such weak trolling.

 xttz wrote:
From WD 207 (March 1997):

http://i.imgur.com/0KNzdro.jpg?1

What page is that on? I've Got the US march 97(206) and april(207) And still can't find it.

Been scanning through 202 to 209 and have had no luck.

 dreamakuma wrote:

 xttz wrote:
From WD 207 (March 1997):

http://i.imgur.com/0KNzdro.jpg?1

What page is that on? I've Got the US march 97(206) and april(207) And still can't find it.

Been scanning through 202 to 209 and have had no luck.

It's from the UK edition 207, in the news section near the front. I don't have it to hand but it's the same issue they release the plastic Vyper.

OK, I can confirm in my us copy of WD 207(april 97) It's not there.

I don't know when it occurred, or how far the gap is exactly - but at some point, a difference in issue numbers occurred between UK and US. So UK issue 207 isn't likely to be US issue 207 - the months are more valuable here. Hopefully someone will pop along with more precise information.

 Super Ready wrote:
I don't know when it occurred, or how far the gap is exactly - but at some point, a difference in issue numbers occurred between UK and US. So UK issue 207 isn't likely to be US issue 207 - the months are more valuable here. Hopefully someone will pop along with more precise information.

The eldar vyper issue made me check it. It's also why I have been looking through every US issue in 97.