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So, I've been playing CSM for the first time over the last few months and have gotten in a half dozen games. In each of them, I've brought Huron as my warlord. Originally, I brought him for the infiltration, but the more I've been playing with him, the more I'm starting to think that, especially for his low, low price, he's got to be the best use of points possibly in the entire codex, but probably in the HQ section at least.

To begin with, he's a chaos lord, so he gives whatever unit he's in fearless, and can give that buff to wherever it's needed because he's an IC and so can squad hop. Then, he's a chaos lord, which means he's insanely beaty. WS6 and I5 are already great (there really isn't that much that isn't I4 or worse out there), but then he has that wonderful tyrant claw. Where I play, people usually put a chainfist and a lightning claw on their lords, and the tyrant claw is pretty much both. I5 S6 shred is none too shabby against infantry, and S6 armorbane isn't exactly a pushover against vehicles. And he even has the axe, which I've certainly used before. And hatred of space marines of all types. On a model with a 4++. And he has a combat familiar for even more I5 attacks. And he can occasionally cast combat buffs on himself like iron arm or fiery form or precognition. And he can fry hordes with a heavy flamer, which I've killed more than one model with overwatch before.

And that's all pretty impressive to me, of course, and if that were all, then I'd say he might be fairly priced. But that's not all. Unlike most beaty HQs, he also still does the job of being a support unit, which is why you want HQ choices in the first place. As mentioned, he can hand out fearless. And he's got psychic powers, which, when they're not buffing him personally tend to be good support spells like forewarning or perfect timing, or endurance, or debuffs like enfeeble. And, because he's a psyker, he gives the squad he's with a 5+ deny the witch. And, because he doesn't have a mark, he can join any squad he wants. And he's the only model in the codex that can even access the divination table.

And then, yes, he also can infiltrate stuff. Useful for getting those terminators or berzerkers or whatever closer. But it's also useful to let those havocs deploy last into the best lanes of fire. And it's useful to start the game on the relic, basically. And the units he gives the ability to can outflank. Endless strategic possibilities with this guaranteed warlord trait.

And he's 165 points. What? I mean, look at everything you're getting for that:

- fearless
- 3+/4++ (with 2+ LoS!)
- I5 S6 Ap3 shred attacks
- power axe
- has S6 armorbane
- free close combat attacks
- heavy flamer (overwatch goodie!)
- sometimes buffs self even more in close combat
- sometimes buffs everyone else (including divination!)
- gives squad he's with 5+ deny the witch
- can infiltrate stuff
- can outflank stuff
- hates space marines
- has all the utility of being an IC
- has general chaos ability of boons for killing characters

I mean, this is just truly staggering. Honestly, I think the only drawback here is that he has so much stuff that it's hard to remember it all. The more I use him, though, the more I remember and the more badass he becomes. I haven't had anything extra outstanding with him myself, but even with mundane luck, he still just outperforms everything else in my army.

In the last game I played him, there was nothing particularly unexpectedly awesome. He rolled a few terrible psychic powers over the course of the game, but he also drew life leech on one of the turns he was wounded and recovered that wound, and had forewarning one turn which he used on a squad that charged into some henchmen bristling with melta and hotshot prescienced overwatch (yes, I did make some 4+ saves there). And he killed a small pile of power-armored dudes, and wrecked a chimera. And outflanked terminators more or less on top of 3 of 5 objectives. And survived the game, preserving the warlord point (which was important, as the game was decided on secondaries). That's a lot, and that's on a relatively mediocre showing of his abilities. Probably my favorite is that, in 5 games, he's killed two dreadknights in challenges. The dreadknight attacks first, hitting on 4's, and then wounding on 5's, and then I have a rerollable 4++ (thanks to the rest of the guys in the squad giving me rerolls). Then, in return, I get attacks that hit on rerollable 3's (thanks to hatred), and wound on rerollable 5's (thanks to the rest of the guys, once again), and ignore armor saves. And the combat familiar.

But that's just two small anecdotes, and just a few facets of the giant pile of stuff you get with this guy. Going through the other HQ options, it seems like he's only lacking two things - the ability to unlock god-warriors as troops, and the ability to try and get invisibility. Well, and he can't take a bike, but you don't always want one of those. But it feels like he basically does whatever else you could be spending those points on, and then does more. For practically no points at all. I honestly wonder why all chaos players don't basically start their list by including him...

But maybe there's something that's just way better that I'm not seeing, but, value for points, I'm having a hard time seeing what.

I agree, he's probably the best swiss army knife in the codex. He's not nearly as beaty as a juggernaut axe lord, or as tough as a nurgle bike lord, but he really does bring a whole lot to a take all comers list. My only issues in using him have been finding the perfect posse for him to travel with. Being a foot lord, I find he's hard to get a bodyguard unit in my assault army, where everything is either fast, or deepstriking. I don't want to waste an infiltration point on him, but otherwise he's stuck huffing and puffing in the backfield with some scrubs.

You're totally right about him almost having too much stuff, he really needs some practice to remember it all. I totally forgot that his little newt guy is also a combat familiar!

Also, hes only 160pts, not 165.

I've always used Huron. I always start my Chaos lists with him as the first HQ choice. He's the tits, no joke.

I'm partial to Kharn in squad of 30+ cultist (usually 32). But I have never tried out Huron. How about Huron and Bile? Fab can make a unit all pumped up for Huron. BTW-I do look forward to reading your battle reports.

What he has that a jugger lord and a nurgle bike lord dont have is the element of surprise (not to mention the dp blackmace which is so yesterday). With juggy and bike its like ima gonna run at you and then eat something in melee or get a rapidfire charge off. Either way the opponent has the one thing to plan against. Its like the old Abby in a LR- sure it hits hard but why dont i just avoid and laugh? In each case a simple screen will just about counter the lord and his body guard when they are standing in the open for your entire arsenal to laugh at.

Huron... You just dont expect it. You think hes just in there for the infiltrate and then your like.. WOAH i didnt think itd infiltrate that far... and then you focus on that unit of whatevers (i think oblits would be nice) it totally messes up your battle plan. Then like an hour later you get assaulted by this little csm squad with huron and hes got just the right wargear to counter you.

The csm codex suffers (imo) from mobility issues. Rhions are bust and we only have 3 fa slots for bikes, spawn and heldrakes and footslogging is a norm in 6e. Any good csm list is either gonna have to accept the fact and make a gunline, have a hell of alot of boddies on the table to withstand the shooting or is gonna look for ways around mobility- maulerfiends, bikes, drakes, dp, chaos deamons. Mr hurons guaranteed infiltrate is a Big deal.

The only Hq id put up there with him is a markless sorcerer ML 3 with wings or a bike (or neither) and a spell familiar. cheap, tactical, useful. Sure others will take more skulls but none will support your army as well. Id take 1840 points of efficient over 160 points of killing frenzy any day.

Also i have a soft spot for a khorne lord, aobf in a squad of 35 cultists. Its fun. It just feels right...

It's good to hear that Huron is such a solid choice for a named character. I just recently added him to my Word Bearers army, but I haven't been able to use him yet...

I'm gonna use him for my planned Night Lords, for the Infiltrate. It just feels so Night Lords, infiltrating alot of units.

Well, you can have Divination with other HQ choices (the generic ones) with Scrolls of Magnus. But it's hella pricy and, as Huron, unpredictable.

I think he is an insanely awesome character, but I wouldn't call him the best we have. The Lord and Sorcerer options win out for being customisable and cheaper, and as far as SCs go I think Typhus is the best one. But after that, it's Huron all the way for definite.

There are some really good named ICs in the CSM codex that don't get a lot of love.
Huron is one of them. Fabius Bile is another. Kharn is also one.

GW may have screwed the pooch with a lot of the CSM units (1k sons, mutilators, warp talons) but they got a few parts right.

The CSM book has top notch HQs be it "build me" or named. The only misses IMO are Arhiman and Kharne, and I only say Kharne because he's a victim of this editions rules.

Typhus is not to be underestimated either. If you plan on taking a lot of cultists as tarpits or just for objective sitting he can make them fearless and FNP. Especially if the opponents will not come into the Cultists' shooting range anyway.

Additionally you get a force weapon psyker in a terminator armor and can take Plague Marines as Troops.

 Murenius wrote:
Typhus is not to be underestimated either. If you plan on taking a lot of cultists as tarpits or just for objective sitting he can make them fearless and FNP. Especially if the opponents will not come into the Cultists' shooting range anyway.

Thing is though there's a toss-up here; for objective campers would you rather 5+ cover and 5+ FNP not running away, or 3+ cover with a chance to run away? Taking FNP away from T3 guys is not hard at all, and Fearless is useless when you are dead.

Unnamed sorcs, lords and dps are all very decent and have fantastic loadouts and uses if you dont get greedy/carried away and take everything. Pick a role and fill it without overspending is the key.

Lucious, fab bill, Kharn are fair- they are normal lords + their individual wargear, some decent and fairly priced quirks and then a little bit off in pts cost at the end. Fab Bill is prolly the most undervalued of these 3 and has some really cool potential. Luc and K suffer from (as much as other stuff) a shooting favored edition. (as stated above: Goat)

Abby and Ahriman are the same but they are just so expensive the opponent is gonna see them coming a mile away. Its the greedy 12 year old take a superlord (no room for anything else) build that just isnt strategic at all.

Id put Typhus in the superlord category. Plenty will disagree but hes SO obvious. People are realizing how important 1st blood is these days so they wont stress about committing all their firepower to your zombie horde t1 anymore. I dont see to many typhus, zombie, drake lists anymore: 2 reasons: 1- people have seen them enough to know to avoid typhus and spread the objectives out and 2- its not really a dynamic, interesting or fun game to play for either player (after the 10th time).

That said; plague marines are the shiznit. Typhus footslogging with a termie blob with huron infiltrating him could be fun. Typhus goes with a plague squad .1 or 2 squads of zombie cultists hanging around to help out with screens and home objectives could be fun.

Funny thing about csm dex: We have GREAT HQ, FA and HS choices. Our elites arent bad either but certainly not 'strong'. Which leaves our troops, our synergy and army mechanics....

 labmouse42 wrote:
There are some really good named ICs in the CSM codex that don't get a lot of love.
Huron is one of them. Fabius Bile is another. Kharn is also one.

GW may have screwed the pooch with a lot of the CSM units (1k sons, mutilators, warp talons) but they got a few parts right.

Lucious and Ahriman werent elements of the "right"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
It's good to hear that Huron is such a solid choice for a named character. I just recently added him to my Word Bearers army, but I haven't been able to use him yet...

he is awesome


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:


But maybe there's something that's just way better that I'm not seeing, but, value for points, I'm having a hard time seeing what.

Really the only thing about him I dont like is he doesnt have a bike for movement and immunity to str8 ID.


It is understandable, If he was 185 points and on a bike, good lord!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Murenius wrote:
Typhus is not to be underestimated either. If you plan on taking a lot of cultists as tarpits or just for objective sitting he can make them fearless and FNP. Especially if the opponents will not come into the Cultists' shooting range anyway.

Thing is though there's a toss-up here; for objective campers would you rather 5+ cover and 5+ FNP not running away, or 3+ cover with a chance to run away? Taking FNP away from T3 guys is not hard at all, and Fearless is useless when you are dead.

and in ruins...

4+ cover and 5+ FNP not running away, or 2+ cover with a chance to run away

McGibs wrote:Also, hes only 160pts, not 165.

Oh, psssh, and I've even been playing him wrong. I'll certainly enjoy giving a terminator a powerfist with those points.

It's funny that he's already so good for 165 points... and then he's 5 points cheaper on top of that.

Vector Strike wrote:Well, you can have Divination with other HQ choices (the generic ones) with Scrolls of Magnus. But it's hella pricy and, as Huron, unpredictable.

Oh, I'd forgotten about that as well. I guess huron has the chance of getting it without wounding it as well. Oh, and he gets it 1/3rd of the time.

McGibs wrote:I agree, he's probably the best swiss army knife in the codex. He's not nearly as beaty as a juggernaut axe lord, or as tough as a nurgle bike lord

Ithani wrote:The only Hq id put up there with him is a markless sorcerer ML 3 with wings or a bike (or neither) and a spell familiar.

Yeah, I was thinking about the juggerlord and the basic sigil lvl 3 sorc as being the closest competitors, as they do more damage and better support, respectively. I suppose the thing huron offers is both simultaneously.

But I suppose more importantly, you get two choices, so you can take a juggerlord and huron, and have two beaty choices, but also get some support, or could take a sorc and huron and have two support choices, but one is extra beaty. In the last game I played, I ran Huron and sorcerer, and there was one turn where one 20-man blob got a 4+ cover save (invisibility) and the other had a 4++ (forewarning). And the next turn, I had a force weapon sorc and huron had warp speed, so I had two good characters for when a monstrous creature came by (in this case a dreadknight, so the sorc took it in a challenge thanks to rerolls, invisibility and a force weapon causing ID).

I guess the question, then, is if it's better to take a juggerlord and a sorcerer, rather than one of those two and huron.

As for Bile, I really can't bring myself to like him. Yes, he gives you a squad of khorne berzerkers without needing to take a khorne lord (and, because they're not marked you can mark them with something else for further advantage). But... that's it. His wargear is terrible, being comprised with only Ap- weapons. I feel like if you want something like khorne berzerkers, then just take khorne berzerkers. Also, if you add on the 165 point cost to the squad of CSM you buffed, then you might as well just have taken possessed, which are also like unmarked khorne berzerkers, but much better than mere +1S CSM.

As for typhus, I guess I haven't given him much consideration. Let's see, he gets terminator armor, nurgle's rot, but is otherwise stuck on the nurgle chart. But he does get an Axe of blind fury (that strikes at I1, but that shouldn't be much of an issue).

Yeah, that's probably worth it for the 60 extra points. Not, perhaps, if you're not interested in making plague marines troops - because for those kinds of points you might as well just take abaddon - but if you're running a nurgle army, then yeah. Actually, a nurgle army with typhus and huron would be terrifying. A unit of 20 plague marines or 10 MoN termies and typhus infiltrating for a turn 2 charge. Ick.

 Ailaros wrote:
Actually, a nurgle army with typhus and huron would be terrifying. A unit of 20 plague marines or 10 MoN termies and typhus infiltrating for a turn 2 charge. Ick.

Scary. The extra toughness would go a long way to helping with early shooting wouldnt it... I think after the amount of casualties the zerkers take running forward the nurgle huron/nlord/pm/termie version of your huron/klord/zerker/termie list might just have more hits in the first round of combat... Plague marines are no slouches in cc and would help with mc spam lists too. On the other hand it is more expensive... id prolly cut typhus for a cheaper nurgle lord pfist/lclaw or even psword/paxe for plague marine troop access though... Unless your using the zombies for something i dont see T as viable.

Ithani wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
Actually, a nurgle army with typhus and huron would be terrifying. A unit of 20 plague marines or 10 MoN termies and typhus infiltrating for a turn 2 charge. Ick.

Scary. The extra toughness would go a long way to helping with early shooting wouldnt it... I think after the amount of casualties the zerkers take running forward the nurgle huron/nlord/pm/termie version of your huron/klord/zerker/termie list might just have more hits in the first round of combat... Plague marines are no slouches in cc and would help with mc spam lists too. On the other hand it is more expensive... id prolly cut typhus for a cheaper nurgle lord pfist/lclaw or even psword/paxe for plague marine troop access though... Unless your using the zombies for something i dont see T as viable.

Was confused with your "T" (I thought Toughness) but you meant Typhus, now your post makes sense.

Huron combos with a lot of things. 20 BP+CCW MoS Fabulus Bill Marines with Icon are 345 points (Bill goes somewhere else). Infiltrate them forward into cover. 20 T4 3+/5++/FNP marines, 60 str5 init 5 attacks on the charge. Add VotLW for hatred and you can wipe practically any SM unit off on the charge before they can strike.

Well, Typhus does have a lot going for him as well...

- fearless
- 2+/5++
- special Ap2 nova attack
- other nurgle psychic powers
- 5+ deny the witch on squad he joins
- +2S Ap2 demon weapon
- Ap2 FORCE demon weapon
- FNP
- +1T, +1W
- Hatred (space marines)
- defensive grenades
- fear (if warlord)
- IC
- boons
- unlocks plague marines as troops

I'd say he's not quite as good as huron because while he's beatier, he's got to compete with other beaties like abaddon, or like a sigil blind fury khorne lord. And while Huron isn't as beaty as any of those, he's also cheap, and he's a better support character.

But that doesn't mean that a T5 W4 FNP model with terminator armor is weak, and the Ws6 S6, A+D6, force weapon is something to be rightly feared.

Honestly, I don't even think about the fact that he can do zombies. That's just a nice extra if you happen to want to run that particular strategy.

I really like Huron. His infiltrate ability is one of the ways the codex can make up for it's dismal transport options. The freebie psychic power can actually be quite useful, even moreso because the opponent can't predict what he gets and it sometimes can be powerful.

I think he is best with a nice squad of cultists to buff them with fearless, all the better to use his infiltrate and I even combine him with Typhus to infiltrate one to three large packs of zombies Hey the list might not beat everything out there but its fun at least and the only way to get a large slow pack of zombies across the board.

The reason every chaos player doesn't use him is because it depends on their list I think. If they need some fast HQ's to put pressure on the enemy then the Juggerlord or Bikerlord is better.

In the end, the main reason to take this guy is that your list benefits from his infiltrate ability. Everything else he has you can kind of get elsewhere, with daemon weapons or other special characters. There are better assault HQ's, and better psychic HQ's that are better focussed to a task.

The other thing I would say about him is that he is perfectly well rounded, with no glaring weaknesses... unlike Typhus and the Daemon Princes, who are vulnerable to Strength 10 AP1 or instant death weaponry. He's got the 4++ save that provides some reasonable protection against a lot of threats that might deny cover or do other tricky things and if he dies...well no biggie it's just 165 pts.

I tend to think Huron is the HQ of choice for a CSM primary army due to all the flexibility he brings. He's a decent fighter, armed with a power axe, lightning claw, and heavy flamer, and automatically comes with the only decent Warlord trait CSM gets access to.

Tack on his dirt cheap price and he's Win in Can.