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As for the extended demise of Finecast, I'm all for that.
Even though FW's resin has been a bit mean to me (Eldar parts), I'm not buying Finecast Aspect Warriors.
Why GW cannot list the weapon options in the box, or show the sprues on the website, I do not know. If I only get a single weapon choice, I'm not risking the chance on a box of horribly-cast filigree-covered models.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/23 14:32:59
Yodhrin wrote: I find it odd that people are excited by this. OK, sure, some people hate Finecast, some hate resin of any kind, but think about how many really fantastic GW figs would never have been made if the range was plastic-only.
Plastic moulds cost a fortune; they're great for large-run stuff because the casting process is more economical, but it's just not feasible to do anything else, the only result of which will be no new niche models.
Not only that, but the newer plastic characters figures are a colossal pain to convert because of the way they chop up the digital sculpture to get the most efficient sprue layout and to accommodate all the flow-y cloaks and fancy poses in a medium that doesn't allow for undercuts.
Crikey I hope Kirby buggers off and we get someone in who's willing to push the company in a more creative and sustainable direction, or they'll be selling mono-pose prepaints before long.
This. I'm not too happy about buying models in finecast but the creativity is all but guaranteed to decrease with this one, away from individual models. I agree things like striking scorpions should be in plastic but the characters have so much more character in finecast. The finecast process has been improving, they are getting better, so we are seeing fewer bubbles and such so this is good. All GW really needs to do is strengthen the resin such that it is more resistant to bending and it is really good to go.
I really don't like the mono-pose idea for everyone, it is completely ok for the main HQ character(s) and the like but for the special characters and those that need the love i'd be good with them still being made in finecast.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/08/23 18:17:17
Pacific wrote: Firstly, I think it's kind of sad that everyone is rejoicing regarding this, and says a lot about the reception of Finecast since has been released. As good as plastic has become (and GW's is some of the best), it is not capable of the same level of detail as resin or metal. There are also issues of design (the oft-mentioned undercuts) which will constrain the sculptors to go down certain paths. There are times when resin/metal is the best choice to carry an aesthetic, and this will no longer be an option.
What's sad is that finecost sucks because they're to cheap to actually make a good product. and with regard to plastic detail etc, have you seen the dark vengeance models? plastic has come a long way.
It has, but it still can't hold the same levels of details as metal/resin. As nice as the Dark Vengeance miniatures are, they can't hold a candle to the likes of CB or Studio McVey miniatures (or some of GW's own character models for that matter).
Let me say this, after our last Hobby Skills Camp (quarterly training) Kirby announced to us that we have a new resin for finecast. That is now confirmed with the Lizardmen release, such as Gor'Rok. This is near forge world quality resin from first appearance.
With that said, we will probably see the new resin after stocks dwindle or new models come out. Not sure how this figures into this posted rumor, but it is a rumor after all.
Questions concerning the resin, I cast a lot of stuff and have tried numerous resins, plus suffering from a few finecast miscasts myself, let me say this new resin is a lot harder, almost like plastic.
TheDraconicLord wrote: I'll dance a jig on Finecast's grave if this proves to be true. It has very slowly been improved over the time, but the level of quality is still so sub-par when compared to the plastic kits.
Also, what limitations does plastic have that resin / metal doesn't? The new plastic kits are a joy to look at! The Cadre Fireblade, the new plastic Farseer and Spirit Seer, they are such excellent looking kits.
Limitations? Lets see: comparative lack of detail and undercuts mainly, the latter of which causes a whole raft of problems in the design and production stages that compound the former, and actually in the context of character models, it's worse for converting than resin because of the way they split up the 3D model onto a sprue for moulding/casting.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
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"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
The new Wyrd plastic sprues (like the Death Marshals) really forced me to think about the supposed 'limitations' of plastic figures, at least in terms of style if not production.
The company that makes the Wyrd molds isn't confined to simple two-part injection, so the weird distortions caused by the 'no undercut' stricture are going to become increasingly irrelevant.
Seriously, if you're in the business at all you need to at least look at the Death Marshal sprues.
Dr Mathias wrote: The new Wyrd plastic sprues (like the Death Marshals) really forced me to think about the supposed 'limitations' of plastic figures, at least in terms of style if not production.
The company that makes the Wyrd molds isn't confined to simple two-part injection, so the weird distortions caused by the 'no undercut' stricture are going to become increasingly irrelevant.
Seriously, if you're in the business at all you need to at least look at the Death Marshal sprues.
They're quite nice. Call me again when they're this nice:
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that resin should be abandoned or that it can't have superior detail when cast by people that do it in limited runs with careful quality control.
I'm just saying that plastic figures have made leaps and bounds over the last few years and will continue to do so, from what I understand of the industry.
I firmly believe the capability exists to make any of the Finecast figures in a just-as-good if not better version in plastic.
They're quite nice. Call me again when they're this nice:
Dr Mathias wrote: Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that resin should be abandoned or that it can't have superior detail when cast by people that do it in limited runs with careful quality control.
I'm just saying that plastic figures have made leaps and bounds over the last few years and will continue to do so, from what I understand of the industry.
I firmly believe the capability exists to make any of the Finecast figures in a just-as-good if not better version in plastic.
Fair enough, personally I'm not convinced, although I suppose that might be because GW have moved in a more stylized direction recently with their plastic kits and aren't actually trying for maximum detail.
They're quite nice. Call me again when they're this nice:
Who makes the figure?
Stephane Simon, he has a small range of figures he sells himself which are excellent(I have Goliath from that pic, and a couple of Sinisters for use in my DarkMech warband). He also did some of the better sculpts for Rackham's Confrontation, and he's doing a few of the new Mierce figures as well.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
in this case, i don't really see the difference between a mono-pose plastic mini, and a mono-pose Finecast mini, except for the fact that plastic won't be bendy or have the bubbles of Finecast...
it's not as if we are getting kits like the multi-part Space Marine Commander...
that would be great, but isn't happening...
more plastic is a good thing, if shoddy resin is the only alternative...
jah-joshua wrote: in this case, i don't really see the difference between a mono-pose plastic mini, and a mono-pose Finecast mini, except for the fact that plastic won't be bendy or have the bubbles of Finecast...
it's not as if we are getting kits like the multi-part Space Marine Commander...
that would be great, but isn't happening...
more plastic is a good thing, if shoddy resin is the only alternative...
cheers
jah
Why should shoddy resin be the only alternative though? They put a few more $ into it, there is no reason that GW resin couldn't be every bit as good as anything else out on the market.
master sheol wrote: At GD Australia 2012 Jes Goodwyn said that the goal of the miniature deisgn studio is...
To transform into plastic kits all the units in the codices (so YES they will make some plastic eldar aspect warriors too)...
This was mentioned as a long-term goal for the company as far back as.. gak.. 1989 or so? - for everything to be in plastic.
Maybe not 1989, but certainly since the mid-'90s, the goal has to have all minis in plastic.
jah-joshua wrote: in this case, i don't really see the difference between a mono-pose plastic mini, and a mono-pose Finecast mini, except for the fact that plastic won't be bendy or have the bubbles of Finecast...
it's not as if we are getting kits like the multi-part Space Marine Commander...
that would be great, but isn't happening...
more plastic is a good thing, if shoddy resin is the only alternative...
cheers
jah
Why should shoddy resin be the only alternative though? They put a few more $ into it, there is no reason that GW resin couldn't be every bit as good as anything else out on the market.
that would be nice...
i have no problems with my Forge World minis, and i love my LE McVey minis, as well as Ilyad and many other quality resin casts....
if GW can provide me with Finecast using a resin similar to Forge World, i will buy all the sculpts that i have passed on for the last two years...
i like the Ogre characters, the Tau, the new Chapter Masters, and the Necrons, but Finecast is a no go...
I really don't understand why the "best miniature company in the world" could never produce half decent resin, when their subsidiary produces excellent quality resin. I've had a single mis-cast Death Korps guy out of the 40 or so I own now, and not a single model has required the amount of clean-up time a FC model does.
If the had better molds and actual QA, they wouldn't need to axe Finecast, it has its uses, and the plastic characters aren't really an improvement; $25+ for monopose plastic with no options only has the advantage of the current gap between FC and plastic quality from GW, and is worse for conversions.
If the choice is keep FC around in its present form, or switch to plastic, I'll take plastic, even though it a) will not be any cheaper, and is in some cases more expensive for the consumer, b) lack of bits or options means they're effectively the same "value," as FC represents an annoyance.
I spent $50 on Farsight, an excellently designed model, but I spent more time cleaning that up, a dedicated FC model, not one of the metal conversions like Vanguard which are notoriously problematic, than all the clean-up time combined on every FW model I've ever purchased (which usually just amounts ot pulling a piece of thin flash off here and there, compared to comprehensive cutting, sanding and carving out obscured details).
FC is awful, and I will not be sad to see it go. I just wish GW could instead actually improve FC, or offer customizable plastic characters, rather than what purely amounts to another material switch and concurrent price rise.
just another wasted opportunity in a long line of poor decisions by GW. I haven't been in the hobby very long, but even I'm feeling some serious attrition at this point.
Therefore, I conclude, Valve should announce Half Life 2: Episode 3.
They could offer customisable characters in plastic by improving the kits. If they don't, and still want £12 per model, it is up to the consumer to vote with their money.
Pacific wrote: Firstly, I think it's kind of sad that everyone is rejoicing regarding this, and says a lot about the reception of Finecast since has been released. As good as plastic has become (and GW's is some of the best), it is not capable of the same level of detail as resin or metal. There are also issues of design (the oft-mentioned undercuts) which will constrain the sculptors to go down certain paths. There are times when resin/metal is the best choice to carry an aesthetic, and this will no longer be an option.
What's sad is that finecost sucks because they're to cheap to actually make a good product. and with regard to plastic detail etc, have you seen the dark vengeance models? plastic has come a long way.
It has, but it still can't hold the same levels of details as metal/resin. As nice as the Dark Vengeance miniatures are, they can't hold a candle to the likes of CB or Studio McVey miniatures (or some of GW's own character models for that matter).
The thing is, for 40k, it doesn't need to hold the level of detail as metal/resin. 40k has changed, and model counts have sky rocketed. My 1500pt Tyranid army has about 80 models, over half of that infantry. The level of detail they've acheived with plastic is perfectly good for the amount of models you're expected to paint. Good painters can get creative and freehand details - as seen with the stunningly good golden daemon entries we keep seeing come out of Europe. People who don't paint obviously aren't going to care about the level of detail, whether it's 40k or another game.
Compared to metals from games like Malifaux, Infinity and even Warmahordes where the standard model count is far, far below that, having that level of detail on every model isn't as daunting. Personally, one Infinity fig will burn me out and I need a week long break after that level of detail, while I can power through a dozen Gaunts before I get burned out. The level of detail is lower, and the required effort to get something tabletop quality is lower, which works perfectly with the increased model count.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/25 07:04:13
master sheol wrote: At GD Australia 2012 Jes Goodwyn said that the goal of the miniature deisgn studio is...
To transform into plastic kits all the units in the codices (so YES they will make some plastic eldar aspect warriors too)...
This was mentioned as a long-term goal for the company as far back as.. gak.. 1989 or so? - for everything to be in plastic.
Maybe not 1989, but certainly since the mid-'90s, the goal has to have all minis in plastic.
T
I remember hearing the comment while working on a holiday job in a specific game shop, while some friends and I were splitting boxes of the Warhammer Fantasy Regiments. (The ones that had 6 races in them).
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