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The only item I would be tempted to risk finecast for would be heavy, large metal models. The hellcannon comes to mind... man, that was a bear to assemble in metal!

But even for that, I simply found an alternative model made in resin, rather than deal with the possible flaws, and the extreme cost, of the finecast model.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Given that some people are still absolutely terrified of the 'evil' that is Finecast though, they'll pay stupid amounts for metals. I sold a metal Vlad von Carstein for almost $35 last month.

That's hardly an irrational decision. I wouldn't even think twice about paying an extra $20 for a model so I can avoid all the miscasts/poor durability/etc of finecast. Time is money, and $20 is pretty cheap to avoid all of that wasted time and frustration.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Given that some people are still absolutely terrified of the 'evil' that is Finecast though, they'll pay stupid amounts for metals. I sold a metal Vlad von Carstein for almost $35 last month.

That's hardly an irrational decision. I wouldn't even think twice about paying an extra $20 for a model so I can avoid all the miscasts/poor durability/etc of finecast. Time is money, and $20 is pretty cheap to avoid all of that wasted time and frustration.

exactly...
i am in no way terrified of Finecast, i just find it to be a sub-par product...
i also don't deal with restic (no PP or Mantic) or bones...
it just isn't the quality that i want in a mini...

cheers
jah

 RiTides wrote:
The only item I would be tempted to risk finecast for would be heavy, large metal models. The hellcannon comes to mind... man, that was a bear to assemble in metal!

Good point. There are indeed a few models like the TFC I'd prefer in Finecast even with the issues I'm likely experience. OF course, the problems with the Techmarine that comes with it would probably make it a tossup.

Finecast worth more than metal?

LOLWUT?

Yeah, that's why I am having a helluva time getting people to sell me their METAL thunderfire cannons (which is reportedly a beach to put together as is)! If finecast was so superior and produced the 'finest miniatures in the world' people would be dumping their metal models by the bucket loads for pennies on the dollar, but they're NOT.

I was an advocate of finecast till recently having never had a bad one, however I've instead run up against another problem, drooping. Went to get the bloodthirster from the case to pop it in the 'for apoc' corner to find him facing the floor with the whip pressing against the glass.

I won't deny I assumed the droop in the material was a myth or a result of leaving models in incredibly hot cars in very warm countries but this was in the glass case of a cool dining room in the UK, I didn't expect it to be as pronounced as it was, gonna have to try and drill up into him and build a brass rod skeleton or something.

Wow... I'd like to see a pic of that. I had also assumed it only happened in hot cars or the like.

Having actually done the hot car test with a model explicitly prone to drooping, the only explanation would be a "bad mixture" and you should get it replaced.

Everyone at the FLGS that I go to generally hates finecast because it softens easily and because many models invariably come out with air bubbles.

RiTides wrote:Wow... I'd like to see a pic of that. I had also assumed it only happened in hot cars or the like.

Will take one at a less horrid hour, tried to straighten him out with boiling water now though which fortunately seems not to have harmed the paint somehow, vallejo primer and matter varnish must be made of miracles. He is however definitely not in the pose in the gallery anymore, not by a good stretch (or droop as the case may be).

nkelsch wrote:Having actually done the hot car test with a model explicitly prone to drooping, the only explanation would be a "bad mixture" and you should get it replaced.

Urgh but he's painted and based, and I got him on ebay for bugger all, I appreciate the idea but it'd probably be more hassle than just shoving him full of brass.

It seems my fateweaver has suffered a similar problem as his staff was straight but it's now distinctly curved and it's resting on the ground over the lip of the base which clearly prevented it from drooping further, which means his legs must've gone too.

 Ignatius-Grulgor wrote:

It seems my fateweaver has suffered a similar problem as his staff was straight but it's now distinctly curved and it's resting on the ground over the lip of the base which clearly prevented it from drooping further, which means his legs must've gone too.

First with erectile dysfunction joke!

 RiTides wrote:
Wow... I'd like to see a pic of that. I had also assumed it only happened in hot cars or the like.

We've been having a hot summer in the UK. Well, I say hot... around 30 degrees (celsius) in most parts. Maybe it got abit toasty in his display cabinet?

Not that I'm saying it should've happened anyway. I've never owned any finecast, and won't if I can help it. I, like most people it seems, would choose metal over it any day.

Not turning this into a finecast bashing thread but I would never put finecast above metal any day unless it was a flawless cast, something which needs to be seen in hand and not in a shrink-wrapped box. Have had to return every finecast I've ever purchased at least half a dozen times, and the 'made-for-finecast' models (ones only released in that material) have been some of the worst. Firebelly for example has his hammer repeatedly bent out of shape. Unfortunately living in a place where temperatures can regularly exceed the materials softening point does no favours.

For people desperate to convert I can see the value in their eyes, however the risk usually outweighs the benefits on top of the premium cost.

I wouldn't say that generally considered it is worth more than metal, and have never heard anyone state it was worth more than plastic. For thunderfire cannons or hellcannons I can see why some people would gravitate towards finecast, but it's not both, even if it's misaligned a good couple of hours work with a file, scalpel and a couple of episodes of your favourite show will fix anything.

 Skarwael wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Wow... I'd like to see a pic of that. I had also assumed it only happened in hot cars or the like.

We've been having a hot summer in the UK. Well, I say hot... around 30 degrees (celsius) in most parts. Maybe it got abit toasty in his display cabinet?

Not that I'm saying it should've happened anyway. I've never owned any finecast, and won't if I can help it. I, like most people it seems, would choose metal over it any day.

As you noted, not that you were saying this... but clearly it's not OK for a finely cast model to melt in an indoor display case

 RiTides wrote:

 Skarwael wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Wow... I'd like to see a pic of that. I had also assumed it only happened in hot cars or the like.

We've been having a hot summer in the UK. Well, I say hot... around 30 degrees (celsius) in most parts. Maybe it got abit toasty in his display cabinet?

Not that I'm saying it should've happened anyway. I've never owned any finecast, and won't if I can help it. I, like most people it seems, would choose metal over it any day.

As you noted, not that you were saying this... but clearly it's not OK for a finely cast model to melt in an indoor display case

"Drooping" is not "melting", RiTides.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 RiTides wrote:

 Skarwael wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Wow... I'd like to see a pic of that. I had also assumed it only happened in hot cars or the like.

We've been having a hot summer in the UK. Well, I say hot... around 30 degrees (celsius) in most parts. Maybe it got abit toasty in his display cabinet?

Not that I'm saying it should've happened anyway. I've never owned any finecast, and won't if I can help it. I, like most people it seems, would choose metal over it any day.

As you noted, not that you were saying this... but clearly it's not OK for a finely cast model to melt in an indoor display case

"Drooping" is not "melting", RiTides.

Well drooping would be due to the resin getting softer due to partial melting, so they are [mostly] the same thing.

Also this thread shows an unacceptable lack of understanding that metal models garuntee more chips than a KFC.

 sing your life wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 RiTides wrote:

 Skarwael wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Wow... I'd like to see a pic of that. I had also assumed it only happened in hot cars or the like.

We've been having a hot summer in the UK. Well, I say hot... around 30 degrees (celsius) in most parts. Maybe it got abit toasty in his display cabinet?

Not that I'm saying it should've happened anyway. I've never owned any finecast, and won't if I can help it. I, like most people it seems, would choose metal over it any day.

As you noted, not that you were saying this... but clearly it's not OK for a finely cast model to melt in an indoor display case

"Drooping" is not "melting", RiTides.

Well drooping would be due to the resin getting softer due to partial melting, so they are [mostly] the same thing.

Also this thread shows an unacceptable lack of understanding that metal models garuntee more chips than a KFC.

Which is why varnish exists.

I don't know what world "drooping" is the same thing as "melting", but I'll just smile and nod.

@sing your life: how does metal guarantee chipping???
as i said in my post, all minis need to be handled properly, and carefully...
a good primer coat, and a finish with gloss varnish, followed by matte varnish will go a long way to protecting the paintjob of any model...
also, not dropping them helps...

plastic is the most durable, but in the debate of resin vs. metal, an encounter with the floor goes badly with both materials...
in my experience, i don't have a problem with metal drooping, or arriving full of bubbles...
certain molds from Forge World are notorious for warping, but the bubbles are rare...
bubbles obscuring the extra amazing fine detail we are suppossed to be getting with Finecast seem quite common...

the upside of Finecast is that it will make good sculptors out of those choosing to buy it...
personally, i would love to paint the new Farsight, but don't trust the material enough to put a top dollar paintjob on it, only to have it droop at the ankle in the customer's display case...

really though, the point is, bring on more plastic!!!

cheers
jah

resin models have the same value as metal models.

Fine cast models have little to no value when compared against the metal models. Any insistence that the finecast version of the identical metal model is superior sounds like swindling to me, out of all the metal models I have ever purchased from GW, only one was malformed, and even then, it was only some details on the terminator's crux shoulder pad that didn't come out (looked like it got pulled out too early, and flowed back into the shoulder part?). Of all of the finecast products I have purchased, even the best casts were complete garbage. The identical model compared against its predecessor showed that the predecessor was far more robust, whereas the finecast version required replacement with a new model completely, because there was simply no way in seven hells that the finecast resin would ever come out of that molding process properly formed (the analogy would be to use pressure treated wood to do your hard-wood flooring..... yeah, it can be done, doesn't mean it's going to yield promising results...)

If you were trading for resin models--that's to say, stuff from forge world or 3rd parties--yeah, I'd say par-on-par, maybe even the resin being worth more, but finecast? finecast is garbage. I've got some finecast models that have gone through the returns process already, they are the best they will ever be, and I'm having issues trying to trade them for identical metals, or getting even near retail price. I think everyone in this thread is of one mind: someone's trying to pull one over you.

I was supposed to comment on how is this possible because Finecast is a what I would like to call a gambling man's product: it has a huge chance of failing so take so at your own risk.

But I was distracted by the fact that 30 degrees Celsius in the UK is considered a hot summer. OMG I NEED TO MOVE THERE NOW

Finecrap was released to be a cheaper alternative to metals.

So... Finecast should always be cheaper than metals when it comes to trades, right?

 heartserenade wrote:
I was supposed to comment on how is this possible because Finecast is a what I would like to call a gambling man's product: it has a huge chance of failing so take so at your own risk.

But I was distracted by the fact that 30 degrees Celsius in the UK is considered a hot summer. OMG I NEED TO MOVE THERE NOW

what, the 95 degree, 95 percent humidity, rainy season isn't your idea of paradise???
we are right in the middle of tropical summer now, and it really makes my girlfriend cranky...
i'm not about to deal with her AND Finecast...

cheers
jah

come to calgary instead.

+30*C in summer isn't all that common, gets to -25*C in the winter, but it's dry as hell so you don't actually feel it. Then again, when we came to calgary in february 1996, it was +15*C... a week later it was -27*C. Yes. You read that correctly. And yes. I wrote that correctly. Nothing like chinook winds to troll you in midwinter.

 poda_t wrote:
come to calgary instead.

+30*C in summer isn't all that common, gets to -25*C in the winter, but it's dry as hell so you don't actually feel it. Then again, when we came to calgary in february 1996, it was +15*C... a week later it was -27*C. Yes. You read that correctly. And yes. I wrote that correctly. Nothing like chinook winds to troll you in midwinter.

...or the sudden snowstorms in May

From my experience, my biggest thing is this:

I have never add to add material to a GW metal mini. I have never had to resculpt detail that should have been there in the first place.

I just got the Lord Executioner to use as a counts-as Astorath. And the little studs on his leather straps failed to cast fully. So i had to scrape them off and am going to have to either fill the voids left behind or I'll add some studs with some plastic rivets.

 Mastiff wrote:

 poda_t wrote:
come to calgary instead.

+30*C in summer isn't all that common, gets to -25*C in the winter, but it's dry as hell so you don't actually feel it. Then again, when we came to calgary in february 1996, it was +15*C... a week later it was -27*C. Yes. You read that correctly. And yes. I wrote that correctly. Nothing like chinook winds to troll you in midwinter.

...or the sudden snowstorms in May

by may you do of course mean august.... I remember... I can't recall which year, but it was sometime between 2008 and 2011

While I am VERY new to this board (first post) my experience with finecast models has varied wildly across the spectrum, so I figured I would chime in. When FC was first introduced, I ordered the Marneus Calgar w/Honour Guard box from my FLGS. It only took 3 re-orders to get a box that was usable - not a good beginning to my FC experience. I then ordered a set of sternguard, only to have issues with those as well. However, the last few FC minis that I have gotten have been very good. I actually go out of my way to find metal minis, because I like the sturdiness of them, but I also love the plastic. I guess the biggest disappointment with FC was GW's quality control and price point considering what you get.

 RiTides wrote:
The only item I would be tempted to risk finecast for would be heavy, large metal models. The hellcannon comes to mind... man, that was a bear to assemble in metal!

But even for that, I simply found an alternative model made in resin, rather than deal with the possible flaws, and the extreme cost, of the finecast model.

Just finished a finecast hellcannon. By far its the worst finecast model I have done. Both side parts were warped and twisted, the wheels were all warped and the gun dosent fit together snug at all.

Spent a day trying to reshape it all. Still isn't as good as I would like, but was a Christmas present from last year so no receipt :(

 jonolikespie wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 RiTides wrote:

 Skarwael wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Wow... I'd like to see a pic of that. I had also assumed it only happened in hot cars or the like.

We've been having a hot summer in the UK. Well, I say hot... around 30 degrees (celsius) in most parts. Maybe it got abit toasty in his display cabinet?

Not that I'm saying it should've happened anyway. I've never owned any finecast, and won't if I can help it. I, like most people it seems, would choose metal over it any day.

As you noted, not that you were saying this... but clearly it's not OK for a finely cast model to melt in an indoor display case

"Drooping" is not "melting", RiTides.

Well drooping would be due to the resin getting softer due to partial melting, so they are [mostly] the same thing.

Also this thread shows an unacceptable lack of understanding that metal models garuntee more chips than a KFC.

Which is why varnish exists.

You can't allways varnish your fine crap... Er metal miniatures, you know.